Great Quote from Mike About AT Says it All...
by Newton Pham on Mar 3, 2009 9:26 AM PST
Email
PrintSomething along the lines of...
"Take what you want from this, but Al Thornton didn't play in the last two games and during that time, that was the best ball movement I've seen from this team"
I couldn't agree more.
He's a black hole. Sort of fitting for a Clipper...shows flashes greatness from time to time, but always reverts back to his ways.
Last night near the end of the third, the team starts to build moment rallying off of a defensive stop from F Jones leading to a Mike Taylor dunk. Clips get another stop crowd is getting into, the team is feeling it, then ball gets passed to AT...he holds on to it tries to force it down low not even looking to pass and then airballs.
Momentum gone.
I had planned to write a post about AT's basketball IQ (or lack thereof) and how a lot of people said he was too old to develop. I didn't believe that at the time...I believed that they were confused. You can't develop athleticism, that the ceiling was there at 25, but AT's athleticism is already off the charts. What COULD be developed was maturity and learning how to play the game.
I think I may have been wrong, in this case at least, I don't see Al getting any better. I don't see any improvement on his passing, learning the plays, being where he is supposed to be. Playing smarter ball. I don't see any of it.
57 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That's why he was available at 14
MDSr thought he was a steal, a no brainer pick at that spot. Perhaps not so much.
Oh yea…should DTS ever get rid of them (esp Ralph, Mike might move on to bigger and better things, after all he’s got 10 kids to feed), I am denouncing my Clips Nacion citizenship!
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
by Lawler's Law on Mar 3, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Still the 2nd leading scorer from that draft
not bad for pick 14.
F-Elton!
Mike Smith's quote...
He kind of floored me with that. I mean, it was a true statement, but the team announcers, and especially Smith, usually stay away from that sort of criticism. He couched it carefully, with the whole ‘Take it for what it’s worth’… But I thought he was going to simply say the Clippers were 2-0 without him. He took it a step further and provided the ‘ball movement’ reason.
It’s too bad that Mardy is hurt – this would be a very interesting time to try to get Al’s attention. The SF job was handed to him with Maggette’s departure. Does he need the incentive of fighting for his job to improve his game?
Obviously he’s not going to start 1 for 11 every game… so it’s a little mean-spirited to kick him while he’s down after having such a terrible game. But your point is well taken – he has work to do, it’s all the same work he had to do last season, and it’s not getting better.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
I think that's why it stuck with me...
It was more of a moment like…“whoooaaa did the commentator really just say that?!”
I think
he was actually better last season. This year, he seem to have lost his shooting touch, especially behind the arch. He just has such bad shooting mechanics and fundamentals.
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
You are right
Rather than improve, he seems to have regressed.
But it is a completely different team right now, too.
I would bring him off the bench and see what that does. Put him in a Michael Finley kind of role. Scorer off the bench.
F-Elton!
Definitely
And take him out of the game directly after taking a contested jumper, or forcing a shot of any kind.
That's the one thing that annoys me about Milph...
I get that they work for the Clippers, but they seem to always give too much credit to guys on the other team when usually it’s the Clippers doing something wrong. That’s interesting that Mike actually said that.
Al has gotten progressively more frustrating this year, but he was a good pick at 14. Unfortunately, we’ve got nobody to really compete with him. He’s a black hole whenever he’s in the ball game, but Dunleavy obviously isn’t talking to him about it. To use Mike Smith’s word, it seems to me like Al is “floating” out there. He does his thing, and nobody really gets on him and he’s definitely not emotional. Hopefully he’ll improve, but what we really need is some competition.
"If a Clippers fan is reading a newspaper in his living room and the ceiling falls on him, he'll just shrug and move to another room." -Bill Simmons
by WestsideBrandon on Mar 3, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Good Point
There was something that “problematic” (I want to say idiot, just because he hasn’t given Gordon his props) David Thorpe said about, I think it was, rookies on bad teams. He might have been talking about OJ Mayo becoming a primary option so quickly at Memphis (appropriately enough for tomorrow night). And it might have been some one else making the point. But when a young player, or some one like Thornton (not young, but new), is forced prematurely into a primary role, they can pick up some very bad habits and develop their talents in the wrong direction.
We think about so many players in this ridiculously horrible, typically futile Clipper season, but AT was in an especially sensitive position. He got the benefit of lots of playing time with nothing to lose in the second half of last season. Then, based on his solid effort and obvious talent, he was thrust into a crucial scoring and starting role.
The problem is that he was supposed to be supported in this fragile new role by a strong veteran supporting cast. Kaman and Camby, Mobley and BD, Ricky Davis off the bench along with Tim Thomas and even sharpshooter Steve Novak. But as that sandcastle crumbled into nothingness, Thornton had little support and nowhere to hide, and he felt like he had to keep shooting and putting up points, playing hard and providing the scoring. Before we write him off—and he’s in a very bad spot these days—, it should be remembered that it wasn’t supposed to go like this. A healthy Kaman would have taken a lot of pressure off of Thornton this season, and a healthy lineup and an active, motivated Baron Davis might have given him a lot more easy looks and chances.
Thornton’s game shows all the signs of being forced, of hammering away at bad habits, of desperation. But I don’t think it should be judged in a vacuum. He needs to get support from the rest of the lineup. Gordon is a heady, all-around player, and it was amazing to see how Thornton’s game seemed empty and cratered without Gordon in the lineup.
AT certainly has significant limitations. He has also picked up some very bad habits and tendencies playing two years in a row on a ravaged roster at the bottom of the standings. It’s not over for him by a longshot, but things need to turn around, but for himself and with the players around him. Unlike Gordon, he doesn’t have the natural court sense and feel and deep understanding of the game to do well on his own.
Josh Howard isn’t a bad comp, considering he was also pretty old when he came out. During (I just looked it up, it actually took him until his 4th year to become an all-star) his year 26 season he finally put it all together. Not a bad argument to cut Al some slack here and see if he can pull it all together next year.
by Michael White on Mar 3, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
David West
Four year college player, first time all star at age 27.
It happens. Guys develop, even after 25.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
At 14th
Al was a great pick.
Now that Korolev at 12th on the other hand…
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
definitely like our commentators being honest
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
Poor Man's Kaman?
Kaman has always been one of those guys, “if he puts it all togethere, he could be pretty good.” Except that Kaman has helped the team consistently when he plays. Can’t say the same for Al, even though this is only his 2nd season. It would be a tougher call on how to deal with him if he were 21, but I think you’ve got to start cutting into his playing time now and make plans for replacing him next year. The tough thing is is that he still perceived as a good up & coming player by many. Too bad we didn’t trade him after that hawks game.
If they really want to keep him, the best thing to do might be to ship him to Europe for a year.
I think that is what we said about Thornton
but I think you are right. Gordon’s play style allows him to always be able to score. If he is hitting the jump shot then great if not, he has proven a willingness to take it to the whole and get to the line.
I don't know
If you look at Thornton’s college stats, he was a black hole there as well. No assists.
The other knock was his bball IQ
Both have proven to be correct. So far.
by Jax on Mar 3, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions
EJ seems level headed
He dealt with a weird situation at IU with Sampson resigning and allegations of rampant drug use on the team.
Could use some work on his interview skills though (I’ll give him a pass since he’s still a teenager) but he had a painful interview before the game yesterday. He must have use the filler phrase “you know” about 20 times in a 2 minute chat. No, we don’t know or we wouldn’t be having this interview. /rant
FA in 2010.
AT is the worst interview of the bunch...
i can see why TJ called him dumb…
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
Mayo was just interviewed on pre-game...
I think EJ beats him on personality too. Rose & Westbrook aren’t much for personality either, at least you can tell that EJ will come out of his shell eventually and is all together a good guy.
Maggette 2.0
I love Thornton, but he really is developing Maggette-itis. The ball movement just dies in his hands, and he’s really making some poor decisions on his shot selection.
25% from three? Yikes!
Although it is not likely at the age of 25, I really hope that he can change his ways, and improve!
Developing
Thornton did make 2 great passes to Camby last night for dunks. He definetly needs to improve on his basketball IQ and I think the Clippers should hire someone to mentor him like the Lakers did for Bynum. He’s getting better, although he still is somewhat of a black hole. I dont think we should be giving up on a second year player so quickly. Like some above people said, it takes some players time to develop, ex: Carlos Boozer, D-West, Rashard Lewis, and even Kobe hadn’t fully developed until last year where he learned to pass. So you never know… and his potential is through the roof. Another guy that I think could be great is MT, he shows flashes of Tony Parker-esque play. If he, EJ, AT, and Deandre continue to develop that can be a great young team
It was a mistake
To give him so much ownership and entitlement so quickly. We all see the talent and skill set he has, but we have to face it, the guy has played big minutes for us these past two years and you see the results. He doesn’t seem to be improving and hurts the team at both ends of the floor.
What’s even more frustrating is that he’s supposedly a nut about practicing and watching film. What the heck is he watching? If he could only understand that moving the ball is the best way to get the team and himself easy buckets…
Let's be clear...
“the guy has played big minutes for us these past two years and you see the results.” Well, Eric Gordon has played big minutes this year, with the same results, but no one is suggesting that he’s a major problem. The on court results are obviously disastrous, but it’s a team effort. Josh Powell was part of last year’s team, and this year he’s part of the team with the best record in the NBA.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
I'm not suggesting Al's a MAJOR problem but...
When I was watching Thornton last year, I kept thinking “Wow, this guy could be good”. But then he took a lot of shots where I was screaming “NO! Don’t shoot!”. He took a lot of bad shots. The excuse was people were hurt so he needed to take those shots – there was no one else to take them. QRoss? C’mon….
With Gordon this year, I have been consistently thinking “Wow, this guy IS good!”. Even when the team is decimated to 3rd stringers, he’s only thrown up a few bad shots. In fact, I feel he consistently makes good decisions and I love the fact that he attacks the rim. He’s not getting many calls due to his “rookie” status but the only way to shed that is to attack even more, which he has done.
I don’t know if the “results” are the same, but saying that “no one is suggesting that he’s a major problem” too doesn’t mean much to me. I think Gordon is still far better than Thornton, comparing their rookie seasons, whatever the W-L records are.
Josh Powell is on a team with the best record? So what? He’s still the same sub par player that makes an occasional shot.
My only point is...
Al’s results on a bad team are less relevant than his game. I’m not suggesting that Al is as good as EJ, or that Josh Powell is good. I’’m saying it’s simplistic to suggest that the Clippers’ struggles with Al as a featured scorer prove that he has significant shortcomings.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
It doesn't take a rocket scientist
to figure out what’s wrong with his game. Just watch him play. He’s a black hole and a chucker with poor basketball IQ. Hopefully he’ll improve, but he needs good training. This iso offense discourages team play IMO.
he plays much better when cutting to the basket...
the guy does not realize he has the quickness/speed to get past the defender (IMHO), so he settles for low % Js
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
by Lawler's Law on Mar 4, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
that's what i don't understand...
if I – a guy who played ball at local park, no formal coaching or training on the game can see that the guy is having issues-can see it and point it out, why can’t the staff do that!? they see the guy everyday! i know that during practice he may not be doing this, but he does DURING the game, which is a lot more important, isn’t it? frustrating…
"Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck"
Roger Sterling - Mad Men
Maybe that's where the basketball IQ issue applies
Perhaps they are telling him all the time.
My 8 year old is starting to get it.
by Jax on Mar 4, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said below
He seemed to have more success last year in games when he was the focal point of the offense. He doesn’t seem comfortable being a cog in the wheel.
Like Baron, I don’t think he is being utilized properly. He is a wickedly athletic scorer, and would probably be more dynamic in an open offense.
It always comes back to that.
F-Elton!
bad fundamantals...
He can’t even do a simple pump fake right. When he does a pump fake, it looks like he passes it in the air. He never fakes out anyone. I mentioned this before but he also has bad shooting mechanics as well as footwork. Bad instincts as well. He should thank his parents for his athletism.
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
True
Very simplistic.
I hate to say it but AT THIS POINT at I’d take Corey back over having AL. Sad to say – same black hole and bad jumpshots, but at least Corey got to the rim and got free throws. And he played pretty good defense – most of the time. I still love that dunk block he got in that one game. He went sky high! CS do you remember what I’m talking about? Who did he deny? Anyone remember?
Corey was/is an incredible player
I remember there was a training camp blog on clippers.com from ralph lawler, and it talked about the Clips running the mile on the track…and Maggs ran like a 5:10. He’s an incredible athlete and trains trielessly. He’s game has improved significantly since his early days, and no one is as relentless as he is going to the rim. You never know what you have until it’s gone.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Some of us appreciated Corey
for what he was. He was a good complimentary player. His lack of lateral quickness limited his defense. He didn’t have the highest basketball IQ. But he did what he could.
by Jax on Mar 5, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
Yep
Corey was guaranteed points.
The Clippers didn’t get blown out nearly as much during Maggette’s stay here.
F-Elton!
Yep
Guaranteed points and an excellent free throw shooter. Watching amateur hour at the free throw line last night makes you miss that even more.
by Michael White on Mar 5, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Right, but there's a difference
You could tell that once EJ was inserted in the lineup, that we were a better team. We all remember the first 10-13 games of the season when all BD had to work with were Kaman & Thornton, it just wasn’t working. We’ve seen both Kaman & BD help teams in the past, but I believe AT’s “wow factor” has basically hidden his overall negative impact on the team.
True
Very simplistic.
I hate to say it but AT THIS POINT at I’d take Corey back over having AL. Sad to say – same black hole and bad jumpshots, but at least Corey got to the rim and got free throws. And he played pretty good defense – most of the time. I still love that dunk block he got in that one game. He went sky high! CS do you remember what I’m talking about? Who did he deny? Anyone remember?
AT was a completely different player in the Rook/Soph game
Sometimes a player is a bad fit with a particular offensive system. Some of that may be what is happening with Al. When he was able to get out and run, he was making good passes. It suits his game well.
MDSr. only saw AT work out once, and that was in Phoenix. I can only imagine how incredible AT looked in the PHX offense during that workout. The guy is a gunner. The LAC offense does not encourage that.
Sr. left that workout very impressed. AT fell in his lap. He looked great last year in games where he was the first option. He has stuggled in his two years when he is just another cog in the wheel.
I think he is a fine player in a mismatched offense.
F-Elton!
A very good point
He did look amazing in the Rook/Soph game.
That's just it though...
Inconsistency. He’ll look great one night, even for us, and not have a clue the next.
Too early
Don’t give up on him yet. I know the league is a different world, but the year to year improvement he showed in college was incredible.
From the games I’ve watched, Al sure doesn’t seem to fit out there. But a player can improve his shot selection, no matter what age he is. I know he’s got other issues, but I think it’s too early to write him off totally, and he’ll instantly become a better player if he cuts down on some of the ridiculous contested jumpers he takes.
It’s a shame to see it not working out for him so far. I thought he’d make more progress based on the flashes he showed last year. He’ll get a lot better if he learns how to use his athleticism to his advantage.
The only players...
I would take over Al in his draft class (that were available at #14) would be Stuckey and maybe Fernandez…that said, I think we got a great player who can only get better…since we all rip on MDsr maybe its his fault…a better coach might have something better to treat this young kid.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Shaq digs in on Dwight Howard once again, calling his eventual departure ‘a travesty’
- Behind the locker room doors before and after Lin’s game-winning shot against the Raptors
- Video: Jeremy Lin adds to his legend
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Rick Fox isn’t here for the right reasons
- A shameless businessman wants to trademark “Linsanity”
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
