Let's talk about the draft...
by bystander on Apr 23, 2009 7:48 PM PDT
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PrintSometimes what we want and what we need are two different things.
What do we want? We want the first pick in the coming draft .
What do we need? We need a HIGHLY skilled, athletic, physically and mentally tough player who works hard, competes, plays smart, and plays TEAM basketball.
The first pick is easy: We get Blake Griffin who is a hard worker, grounded, physically superior, and plays team ball. Like I said...this choice is EASY.
Problem is, beyond the first pick, I don't really see anyone that we can say we need... And it's not as if anyone beyond Griffin can break into the Clipper lineup next season anyway. No matter what want to happen, it will be Baron at 1, EJ at 2, Thornton at 3, Randolph at 4, and Kaman at 5. The bench players are Mike Taylor, Marcus Camby, DeAndre Jordan. That's 8 players. Collective Bargaining Agreement says we have to have a minimum 14 players. That was 9. Who gets the contracts? I say our draft pick should be one--but can we find someone more accomplished than our current bench players. No matter who this guy is, he will be a bench player if your last name is not Griffin and he will be WILDLY OVERPAID because of this draft position. Why keep a pick so high when we cannot afford to pay someone to sit on the bench for that kind of cash.) So let's bet low: really LOW and try to get more than one rookie next year. I say get the last remaining piece for our "Youth Movement": A power forward who is athletic enough to play either the 3, the 4, or the 5. My take: we need good character guys a la Duncan and EJ who just put their heads down and go to work. If we get anything beyond the #3 draft pick, I sincerely hope the Clips trade down and try to get 2 picks. Outside of Griffin and maybe Harden (Rubio seems like fool's gold--no athleticism, not a solid shooter, and small: 6'4" and 180) there's no one that's really all that. I'd want to use the lower picks to get a Greg Monroe, Stephen Curry, a Sam Young, or a Tyler Hansbrough via trading down our pick. Think about it: We get more players & we pay less money. How will a top pick break into the line-up, realistically, anyway? I just can't see it....
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even if we get griffin, i heard he cant even make a shot past 4 feet, and this was on sportscenter. who are the clips gonna bench for him? thornton? no way, thornton is much better. I do think trading down and getting two would be good. Maybe ty lawson and another player
So you prefer two rookies who won't play much
to the best available player? The only reason to trade down is if the player we are targeting will be available later in the draft. For that reason, we might be wise trade down a couple of spots if we end up at pick #3 or 4, and we are targeting a wing. Other than that scenario, two marginal benchwarming rooks aren’t better than one solid prospect.
if you read what i wrote...
i’m not saying we should pick two less talented prospects for one solid prospect. what i said was there was no other “solid prospect” than Griffin. as far as I’m concerned, this draft looks like a bunch of busts outside of Griffin—so drafting 3-4 or drafting 23-24 will mean the same thing: sitting on the bench and unable to break into the line-up. It’ll just cost less. Besides, good teams usually have a TIGHT rotation to maximize team chemistry: these rooks will not see very many minutes outside of injuries… Did you honestly believe anyone drafted after Griffin can push any of the starters to the side? Not without having to trade them first…and that doesn’t look like it’ll happen…and look at the names I threw out there as potential late picks: they weren’t bench players during the tournament—these kids can play. And Monroe is just a throw-back when teams drafted a kid on “potential”…
And I'm saying a late 1st rounder
may not have much value to us this year. Besides a backup SF, I don’t see that we have any needs that could be filled in the late 1st round this year. Drafting future backups does not need to be a primary goal for a team that didn’t win 20 games. With a top 5 pick, we need a prospect who will become a solid starter for us in 2-3 years. If we can trade down a couple spots and still get the guy we want, then a late 1st rounder would be a nice pickup.
If everyone after Griffin looks like a bust, the smart thing would be to trade out of the draft. Not that I agree the upper lottery picks will all, or even mostly, become busts, but if that’s your point, then trading out of the draft would be the best course of action.
rubio
weren’t u a rubio fan bystander? its not really a weak draft… i think da risk factor are a problem rubio, jennings, evans, can all be good but can also be just hype… but if i gotta pick outside of griffin.. it would be jennings, i seen him play a couple of times hs b4 he transferred to oak … hes awesome.. i heard rubio is suppose to be good but hell naw in todays generation of pg.. dwill, cp3,rose.. u need to be able to carry a team…all he has working for him is feel for da game,iq.. jennings will learn that.. just my two cents…. wat i like about evans… killer instinct hrm kobe has this mj had this…
This draft is getting a bad rap because of a strong crop last year.
There are still plenty of solid nba prospects in this draft, just not very many in the high end category. Unfortunately, this is the year we figure to have a high round pick, and obviously if we don’t get #1 or 2, we’ll probably end up reaching for someone. If we do reach, i’d like to see us take an SF or a PG as this position is the strength of this draft, and I have come to accept that they are both weaknesses, or at least suspect positions on our team. It could be that a Point Guard will have the most drastic effect on our team, if only to stir up BD, which of course would help everyone…Taylor on the other hand doesn’t need stirring up.
The only mistakes I can forsee is us taking Thabeet or Harden. If Harden finished strongly enough last year, we could have picked him then traded him, but I doubt that’s a viable option anymore.
Jordan Hill is a wild card if we’re looking forward to life w/out ZBO a couple years from now.
I wish...
MDsr will trade our first round pick for a coach!
I like Blake
BUT if you think he’s a superstar will you be willing trade this years pick and Minny’s pick to move up??
Why not?
We have all our first rounders the next few years and Minnesota is our extra pick… and it’s lottery protected until 2011. They look like their improving, could even be out of the lottery next year… or the year after… and that’s the one we’d get… that could be a twelve or a fourteen. Maybe I’m overvaluing Blake, but he’s got an awesome attitude and he took that team farther in the tournament than anyone thought was possible. If he came to the Clips this year, shouldn’t we expect to at least be out of the lottery the next few years?
Because I think you are overvaluing Blake
“If he came to the Clips this year, shouldn’t we expect to at least be out of the lottery the next few years?”
I don’t think there’s any way Griffin makes a significant contribution to any team next year. From the scout’s notes I’ve read: he can’t shoot jump shots, he can’t shoot free throws, he has no post moves, relies on his athleticism, and he’s likely undersized (what do you think the chances are he’s really only 6’7.) Yes, he dominated in college, but that’s because he was stronger than everyone else and he got by on his athleticism— that won’t happen in the NBA. Plus there are injury concerns about his knees.
I’m sure he does have a good attitude— but I don’t use the #1 pick (and trade up at that) for a guy with great intangibles. And while he does have a great body (muscular wise) I don’t see his as anything more than the best NCAA player in a weak draft. I mean, picture Griffin into the 2008 draft. Would he still be the #1 pick? Of course not. We had a bad year, and we have the chance to get the #1 pick in the draft, but (I know you’ll appreciate this next analogy) the unfortunate thing is the consensus number 1 pick is for Alex Smith and not the year before when it was Eli Manning.
I’m sure I’ll get heat for this one, but I like Rubio over Griffin.
by Michael White on Apr 24, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
And not to nitpick, but “he took that team farther in the tournament than anyone thought was possible.” I’m not so sure about that. I think the NCAA selection committee thought they would go that far seeing as they were the #2 seed and won every game they were a higher seed, and lost as soon as they weren’t.
by Michael White on Apr 24, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay...
You made the only argument that makes sense for not trading up… that Griffin’s not good enough. (Not that I totally agree. Did you see Griffin play? He’s REALLY GOOD. Really really good.) And Oklahoma WAS a two seed, but only because of Griffin… and nobody picked them to get as far as they did. Okay, then, I didn’t. I picked them to go out in the second round. I was surprised at Griffin’s strength and leadership. He carried that team. I think he’s going to make a great pro, even if he’s not six-ten.
Ironically, I thought the Giants paid too much for Eli. The NFL draft is so different, I hate to go after running backs and quarterbacks with those first picks. Basketball’s easier… you take the best player.
But let’s extend the argument. Do you think Rubio’s good enough to trade up for?
Mwhite06 needs to do more research
Griffin was a top 5 pick last year, it was surprising he didn’t declare. The guy is a beast, loves the dirty work. Yes, he still has a way to go in improving but he’s also just 20 years old and has improved immensely every year. No one picks Rubio over him in this draft and yes, I trade the Minny pick and ours to move up.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2009 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps I do
I don’t pretend to be an expert on college basketball. I watch much less NCAA than pro basketball. In any event, is the information I’ve provided incorrect? Can he shoot free throws, can he shoot jump shots, does he have post moves? Are his knees in good health? Again,what I hear from you is that “he loves the dirty work.” As with the post above, the positives on Griffin seem to be centered around intangibles— while intangibles are nice, it’s a bit risky to use the top pick on guys who’s best attributes are his work ethic.
As for the earlier question, I would not trade up for Rubio either. If we fall to 3, I would consider trading down to 10 or so, but its rather difficult to say now— once the draft order comes out I’d have a better proposal with what moves we should make.
by Michael White on Apr 25, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Who would give up anything good to trade up if we fall to three?
There is a reason why you would trade down.
"There is a reason why you would trade down."
Point well taken.
Perhaps there’s a team in the 10-12 range who would be interested in trading up for Thabeet or Harden (guys who don’t make much sense on our team) but you are probably on point…
by Michael White on Apr 27, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting point...
Where would Griffin have gone in last years draft… everything else being equal? (In other words, if Griffin had the year he had this year, last year. I’m thinking he’d probably go right after Beasley or OJ Mayo… though I’m not at all sure. But CChuck, would you trade the Minny pick and our pick to move up for Rubio as well as Griffin? I’m not at all sure about that. I look at Rubio and I see this guy flying around making no look passes and gliding through the paint with no one in front of him. That ain’t gonna happen in the NBA.
Eh?
I didn’t say we trade up for Rubio, just for Griffin.
Griffin might be a poor free throw shooter right now but his jump shot has gotten better. With some practice he’ll get to a competent free throw shooter. The fact he likes the physicality of playing inside is huge as most big guys these days are finesse players who like to play out on the perimeter. With his size, work ethic and physical demeanor he’ll be a beast inside.
He would have been a top five pick LAST year in a very deep draft. This year’s draft is pretty weak (so any pick after the top 2 is worth alot less than usual) and next year’s draft looks solid but not spectacular.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
His knees
He had some slight knee problems in 2008 (nothing serious like a blown acl/mcl or microfracture). Gauging his performance this year I think its safe to say he’s fully recovered.
Most of this is probably moot, I get the feeling that OKC gets the local kid/hero/star to add to their nice trinity of Westbrook, Durant and Green.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Ouch...
That’s a team to be admired.
There are crossed emails in there that would explain the inconsistent Q&A. Mwhite posted while I was typing. :)
Sir Charles?
In the little that i’ve watched Griffin play last year, i’d say he reminded me of Charles Barkley. His college numbers and style definitely seem on point to compare w/ Barkleys offensive skill set, but one of the questions about Blake is will he have that same intensity on the defensive side of the ball.
Depends on which pick
If its the 5th or 6th pick then I would. Minnesota’s pick will likely be a mid lottery pick next year.
FA in 2010.
I just post the question because we all know it's a 2 man race
Really, a one man race and some questions about Rubio. I guess since the NFL draft is fastly approaching, things of this nature usually happen in the NFL.
So if the staff really believes Blake is the real deal, isn’t it worth the time to look at it?
I need to go drink, I’m thinking about the bouncing ball a month too early…
My life sucks…Well, the clipper portion
Questions about Rubio and his buyout...
I’m still not sure how the buyout works. Is there a possibility you pick Rubio but his Euro team refuses to bring the buyout down to a reasonable level and you wind up either losing the pick or paying what amounts to a huge signing bonus? (For six million dollars? That’s the equivalent of a mid-number one’s entire rookie contract.)
And will Rubio come over and workout for NBA teams? Did Korolev come over? It seems to me he didn’t, but I might be wrong about that. If Rubio doesn’t work out for the Clippers, there’s NO WAY you can pick him in the top three.
Mike Dunleavy became convinced of Eric Gordon and Al Thornton’s value because of their individual workouts, not what they did on tape. This seems critical… (no matter who the coach/GM is at the time of the draft).
i think this is how it works
if we were to draft him without buying him out then we would have his rights. so when his euro contract expires he’ll come here and play.
Rubio has to pay for the buyout himself
It comes out of his contract, the team can only pay a certain amount. I’m guessing Rubio will play for any big market team and/or the highest team since he’ll need all the ducats he can get to payoff his former team.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what I thought...
It’s up to the player to pay down the buyout… but the team can help to a degree… or wait for the contract to end and the problem to solve itself… or, in the case of Fran Vasquez… not.
I notice in Rubio’s press releases that there already seems to be an NBA guy working on Rubio’s contract details with the team he’s playing for. I’m guessing David Stern wants these guys in the US as much as anyone… and doesn’t want anymore situations like the Milwaukee and Yi Jianlian dilemma (2007). Yi did show up for workouts prior to the draft, which might answer my other question, though I don’t think he did any private workouts.
It’s just that Rubio’s buyout is quoted as six million dollars. That’s a lotta freakin’ paella.
He should be able to afford it
Unless he isn’t a lock for a top 5 pick he’ll probably stay in the draft. He’ll be a very marketable player so I’m sure he wants to play for a team that will give him plenty of PT. He’ll get 20-25 mpg with us for sure.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 26, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
he'll get bought out
i read somewhere that the team he plays for has assessed the situation, and although they would like to keep him through his contract, will not want to bring negative attention to their program by not releasing their prized european stallion. by declaring, it’s all but sure that he’ll be playing in the league next year unless some serious he-said she-said indian giving goes down back in europe.
everything i’ve read and watched on rubio i’ve loved. i really think he’d make the team balanced, and give us some actual leadership and control on the offensive end of the floor. love what ive seen on griffin, but ive also heard about the knee concerns, but thats up to our staff to decide if its serious or not. and although i don’t know where harden would fit into the team, i still think him and EJ in the backcourt would work. they are both unselfish players that can create, whether by pass or shot.
im curious what you guys think about demar derozan and ty lawson. those two intrigue me
We’d all love to get Blake but I like Rubio as the fallback. We got Marburied with Davis so we need a replacement and Rubio fits the bill.
Baron isn't a total loss
I think Rubio would give us a solid 3 guard rotation. Baron had a bad year but still had a 15 PER which is decent, its just seems even worse given his contract and our record but he hasn’t reached the level of Steve Francis or Marbury (and I hope it doesn’t get to that point). Also, Baron is only 30 so he should be decent for 3 more years. We can even dump him for expiring contracts I would think if he plays solidly the 1st half next year.
A backcourt of EJ and Rubio for the next 10 years gets me all hot and bothered.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Draft thoughts
The Clippers are in a weird position for this draft. Despite coming off an atrocious season, they really dont have a gaping hole at any position.
So what shold the Clippers do if they win the Lottery? The truth is that the best player in the draft is often a diamond in the rough. The last time the Clippers had the number one pick was 1998 ( a horrible memory for most of us on this board). The best players in that draft (Nowitzki and Pierce) were picked 9 and 10. Similarly, everyone knows that Michael Jordan was picked 3rd in his draft. Some drafts are easy, Tim Duncan in 97, Allen Iverson in 96. Other years, like the aforementioned 98 draft, or the 95 draft (Joe Smith was the Number 1) are not so obvious.
Bystander made the argument in his post that the Clips should draft hard working, high character players. I can’t argue with that. Blake Griffin certainly has that, as well as a great work ethic. He certainly has the potential to become a very good player. That is what the Clipper optimist in me will say if we land the number one pick and draft Griffin. The other side of me thinks that right now Griffin is an undersized power forward who has yet to develop a post game. He is a superior athlete at the college level,, and he relies on that to get his points. I think he is too good of an athlete to become a “bust” but im definitley not sold that he is a sure thing.
Rubio, on the other hand, is not a superior athlete, but he can really play basketball. He is a terrific passer (said to be an elite pick andn roll player) and gets to the rim effectively. He draws fouls and makes his free throws. He has good size for a point guard, and he will almost certainly get stronger as he matures and works out with an NBA team. He doesnt have great foot speed, but he plays smart defense and gets into passing lanes. From what I have seen/ read, he also likes to post up smaller guards, and he is a good rebounder.
The NBA draft is a gamble, and we can only pretend to “know” who will be a great pick or a bust. But If I was GM today, I would defintley back rubio. Im with Clipper Chuck, that backcourt is exciting on all sorts of levels…
by johnnyoc21 on Apr 27, 2009 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No mention of Kwame Brown?
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
I think you guys are forgetting the Marcus Camby Factor.
I think one of the best assets on this team is Marcus Camby and his experience. Throw Thabeet right behind camby and have him learn behind the main man that dominates in the middle in the NBA and you could have a cornerstone of your franchise with EG.
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