Outraged Season Ticket Holder
by Rickk on Apr 7, 2009 9:44 AM PDT
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PrintGood morning gentlemen,
I recently read Andy’s Roeser’s impassioned email message of April 3rd and I’m not sure if I am amused, embittered or just merely disgusted with the organizations’ inability to relate in the minutest of ways to what I believe season ticket holders must think and specifically to what I, a 25-year Clipper season ticket holder actually feels about the club, its operation and in particular to this ludicrous communication from Mr. Roeser.
Let me set the stage by saying that I have spent most of my professional career in direct marketing arena. A significant portion of it in consumer facing organizations focused on building loyalty & retention programs. I have in all my years never seen such an incredible disconnect between a company (the Clippers) and its customers as is evidenced by this email.
And, for the record my 25 years as a season ticket holder have seen; a mere 2 winning seasons, 14 head coaches, 22 years (soon to be 23) as a perennial and consistent lottery participant, almost 400 roster changes, only 3 playoff appearances and approximately $375,000 (boy is that number painful to see) invested in a franchise that has proven to be the poster child for sports ineptness. Like so many, I am now for the most part unemployed, searching for a job and could really use some of those hundreds of thousands of dollars of mine the Clippers have enjoyed.
While I cannot speak for other season ticket holders, the accumulated frustration can be evidenced by an observation my friend Richard and I made as we sat almost alone in section 101, row 6 at last weeks New Orleans game. We counted the number of season ticket holders actually present at the game. The potential for the first 7 rows was 154 and the number of season ticket holders actually present at the game totaled a mere 12, including the two of us. It would be an understatement to say they are staying away in groves, but why?
While there are probably many individual reasons for the lack of physical support including; bad team, lack of effort, over-priced and poor food, bad music, mediocre coach, and a myriad of other grievances, the most offensive and the latest is the teams undercutting of what season ticket holders paid by as much as 60% in offers to the general public, including seats right in our section, seats we bought at full-price.
I wonder how Mr. Sterling or anyone would feel if they pre-paid the full price for the purchase of a product or service only to find out that the next person in line (without any negotiation) was able to obtain that same product for 60% less? Maybe the Clippers just do not get it! Put another way, Mr. Sterling buys a new Bentley for $400,000 in September and Mr. Roeser buys a similar car in April for $160,000. One could assume that he would be at a minimum, extremely agitated by the situation and seek recourse. Well, I paid about $25,000 for four seats this year and the Clippers have been selling those seats to anyone recently at more than half of what I paid, what is my recourse?
When I attempted to contact the Clippers regarding this inane policy (hard to get return calls from Mr. Lahr or Roeser) I was told by Mr. Lahr’s assistant that it was an unfortunate situation, but the lack of ticket demand forced the Clippers to react in this fashion. Ah, the Clippers at least acknowledge that demand is soft and their pricing strategy reflects this lowered demand for which the marketplace has mandated the price reductions on seats to the “general public.”
In my analogy and at the end of the day Mr. Sterling would still have the overpriced, but well made Bentley. We season ticket holders cannot make such a claim as the product we witness year in and year out is significantly inferior to other teams, never performs as promised and is always breaking down. It’s like going to Morton’s and finding out that Denny’s catered your meal; you would and should be outraged and demand satisfaction.
Being loyal to the Clippers has cost me $375,000 and yes I have received some measure of enjoyment, but now every season ticket holder’s loyalty is costing them money, money they may no longer have to spend frivolously.
This renewal email from Mr. Roeser is a personal affront to each and every long-time season ticket holder and insults the intelligence of all us who are now struggling to make ends meet. I can only assume that the essence of the email was to placate season ticket holder when he wrote, “To help make your renewal decision a little easier, we are pleased to announce that there will be no price increase in the lower level.” He and the Clippers must be kidding. Is the light on? Why should I invest full price for tickets only to have the Clippers undercut what I pay and reward the general public with up to 60% off lower bowl seats – and they may even throw in a hot dog and gas card.
Mr. Roeser is either foolish or a fool as he closes the email with “we need your support more than ever, etc., etc.” O.K., if the Clippers want loyal fans to come back and be supportive of a team that at best will miss the playoffs again, be injury riddled, probably fire the coach, serve inedible and over-priced food, and once more delight ESPN with their on-court ineptness, I have a more rationale and realistic alternative purchase plan for the Clippers based on the “real” market pricing.
I would suggest the adoption of the following season ticket discount (market pricing) purchase program, a program that given the quality of the product, given the lack of product demand and given the current economic conditions might persuade season ticket holders to renew.
The Rick plan is a very simple, reflects current conditions and rewards loyalty.
For 25+ year season ticket holders - ticket price reduced by 50%
For 20-24 year “ “ “ - ticket price reduced by 40%
For 15-19 year “ “ “ - ticket prices reduced by 30%
For 10-14 year “ “ “ - ticket prices reduced by 20%
For all other season ticket holders - ticket prices reduced by 10%
This is a far more rationale view of what a Clipper season ticket is worth in today’s marketplace as evidenced by the Clipper’s public marketing of their product.
I urge each and every season ticket holder to consider the value of his or her seat as reflecting by the undercutting of what we paid versus the incredible discounted price the Clippers offer to the public. The current conditions depict what economist and politicians say is a “pay for performance” or in the case of the Clippers, pay for ineptness. Ownership and the players should understand this, season ticket holders should not continue to reward such ineptness and lack of understanding.
Why pay in full when you can buy at deep discounts later? Please pass this letter along, let the Clippers know how you really feel about their product.
Rick Kaplan
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Comments
Totally Agree
No one should renew after what happened this year. It’s almost like a guaranteed financial loss.
Its good business to operate at the intersection of supply and demand
While it is unfortunate for season ticket holders this year that they perceive they are overpaying for their tickets, what else are the Clippers supposed to do? Eat all those seats so you feel good about yourself?
Pricing things arbitrarily using a combination of populist emotion and fairy dust is usually the M.O. of the government, not dudes like Sterling.
I don’t think your Morton’s analogy is apt. This is the Clippers. Its more like you went to Denny’s and discovered that someone has a better coupon than you.
The advice is sound though. If one believes they will be able to get these deals next year they shouldn’t renew their tickets. Its the same advice I would have given last year. The outrage isn’t healthy though. This situation could be foreseen and predicted and prepared for given the injury situation last year. Demand was going to drop. How have the Clippers always reacted? Aggressive price drops, elaborate ticket packages and deals and programs.
You do know they GIVE a great many tickets away, right?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Sure, John R
As usual, you blame it all on the injuries. Season ticket holders (unlike John R) have every reason to be outraged and to express themselves in any way they want to. And it is particularly on point to blame management. Except if you want to stick your head in the sand.
Perhaps I should spell it out for Jax since he is coming off as extra slow in this thread
Everyone that renewed their season tickets for 08-09 would have had to do so before they had the data for 08-09. They would have only had the data for 07-08 as well as the Clippers offer to cancel right up until opening day which means they would have had the results of the draft and free agency as well. Obviously if this comment were about MDSr, which it isn’t except in Jax’s fantasy world where everything is about MDsr, they knew he would also still be the coach. So if they still re-upped it was based on all of that information.
It was clear to see that ticket sales would be less than the year before based on that alone. That’s how the science says these things go. Ticket sales track with wins. You can argue that point if you want, but you will be wrong. Ticket sales track with wins.
All the data was there to make a sound decision. It was clear then, based on the results of last season, that deep discounts would be available throughout the season unless they actually started and stayed hot, winning north of 53 games or so.
I just don’t get down with populist outrage. Own your decisions.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
Populist outrage? Ok, Marie Antoinette
Many people believed (not knowing until after the season started that MDSr was also the GM) that this was all about injuries and that MDSr would lead the team to victory. And no one knew that they’d be signing Zbo in a desperate attempt to salvage MDSr’s soon-to-be-final season in LA – a move that saddles the team with substantial debt and the burden of having to trot him out there as their premiere superstar for years to come.
A few of us figured out long ago that MDSr was a poor coach. Management should have figured it out earlier (and apparently the stooge Elgin Baylor believed but had no power to act), that MDSr was a horrible coach all along.
Now that the prophecies have been fulfilled (not just my fantasy, John R, look at the team’s record, play, personnel, etc.).
John R – I would suggest that you stop denigrating me and the vast majority of Clipper fans with your vapid comments and references to the current belief that MDSr needs to go to “populist outrage.” Your suggesion implies that we are all wrong and stupid and that MDSr really is the savior you’ve wrongly long proclaimed him to be. In reality, it is you whose prophecies have failed. The fans are saying, finally, “enough is enough.”
Your comments remind me of Marie Antoinette.
by Jax on Apr 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
John R, Your kidding Right?
This is the Clippers, how many tickets do you think they give away? Do you have a number? I’ve been moaning about this since I received my first e-mail about the lower level seat discounts. They offered $150. seats for $30. I have $100. seats and that’s the same as paying $20. I don’t care how you want to rationalize it – that’s plain bullshi*.
I’ve gone through years of miserable teams too, and I’ve kept coming back, but this is a real hard slap in the face.
I’ve posted before that if the Clippers wanted those seats filled they should donate them to local charities. If they want to give away 1,000 or 5,000 or whatever, I’m totally o.k. with that. But when I have to pay my hard earned money to have a somwewhat enjoyable time (however, not this year) at Staples don’t insult me by selling them a such a steep discount.
If the team suc*s so bad they can’t get anyone in there, then I suggest they find a way to change what they’ve been doing. I mean, one year I went to renew my tickets and was told they already sold my seats. Then they acted like they were doing me a Huge Favor by letting me renew at a location 14 Rows behind were I was! A few years later I’m finally almost back to where I was before they sold them.and I’m hit with this shi*
I’ve only seen two people on CN who think this was a fine idea. I wonder if the two are season ticket holders. And if you are, then I suggest you have your priorities mixed up
Right now I’m thinking I’ll only renew if I recieve a decent discount, or if that freaks DTS out, keep me at the same rate but let me move my seats, AND I recieve a direct call from the Clippers telling me how much they value my business and then start acting like they do
I’m not holding my breath for either scenario.
I WAS a season ticket holder before this year
But I quit, betting I could get better deals going game by game.
I looked ahead, reasoned it out, and made a decision to change my habits and buy game-by-game.
How are my priorities mixed up?
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
RickK
I’ve tried so hard to give tickets away this year, nobody wants them. I didn’t go to the Hornets game either, but since I know someone who’s a huge CP fan I was able to finally give a pair away.
It’s not even worth driving there.
For what its worth...
people in the 200 section (where I have sat for the past 8 years) already get 50% off…actually it’s a 2 for 1 deal, but the money works out to be the same. This is probably the best deal in the NBA and I highly doubt any additional discounts from the organization are coming.
It is disconcerting to me that the Clippers are now selling tickets in the 100’s for the same price that I paid for mine, but that is the risk I take for being a season ticket holder of the Clippers, and I am fully aware of that risk. I feel for the STHers in the 100’s though.
Do or do not. There is no try.
While it is unfortunate, I disagree with the OP on this
Season ticket holders buy at the beginning of the year in hopes that their team will give them an enjoyable experience, maybe even a playoff berth. It’s a risk and a true sign of support.
Unfortunately the Clippers are horrible this year and looks like they won’t be much better the next. Simply, don’t renew your tickets.
When a product is sold and then shows no demand with a subsequent price cut, do the original purchasers get a refund? No.
I’ve only witnessed one company do this, Apple with their iPhone.
P.S. I will not be getting season tickets next year either
…as I have lost a good amount of money on steaks (not cheap ones) I bet with a multitude of people in the beginning of the season (that the Clippers will make playoffs).
I want Roeser to write the check on that.
Buying season tickets is not a bet,
Your actually buying a product. If that product suc*s, sure, don’t renew. But it’s not like going to vegas or buying steaks (?). When we invest in this “product” we expect a reasonable return on our investment. As for only Apple giving refunds, I bet I could find a more than a few examples. Have you ever heard of the lemon law?
I’m not going to suggest one way or another whether or not you should keep your tickets. Its quite a personal decision and figuring in the considerable expense involved I certainly wouldn’t suggest that you or anybody should support the team by continuing to purchase season tickets. FWIW, I am not a season ticket holder. My wife hates basketball and even if she didn’t it’s not something that we can financially consider. That being said, I am planning on buying tickets to the Blazer/Clipper game on Saturday. I know the Clippers will probably lose, but who cares. I like going, I like the Clippers, my friends and I will have a good time, etc. If buying Clipper tickets and watching the games is not fun for you, it seems like it should be a pretty easy decision for you to not renew.
I’m not sure I follow your logic on return on investment and lemon law’s and the like. The product you are buying is entertainment, and as such there would be no objective way of determining if you have been adequately entertained. Lemon laws deal with defective merchandise on tangible products, such as buying a car that turns out to be defective. The product being offered by the Clippers is intangible.
by Michael White on Apr 7, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
While entertainment is certainly subjective
I argue product is indeed defective.
If you were watching a 2 hour movie but they cut 30 minutes away from the film you would be left with a incomprehensible pile of steaming crap. Yea, you might have been entertained at points but you’d leave feeling used.
When I walk out of Staples after a game (loss) I feel like I’m having a walk of shame.
FA in 2010.
I only posted the lemon law as a response to the previous post...
I went into this year hoping for 35 wins, 30 would have been acceptable. That means I’d be fine with 52 loses. If the team can’t even slightly approach my generous estimation of what they could achieve, yes, I’d say it’s defective.
What’s with all this defending the Clippers? I’m glad you enjoy the games. I’m going to be polite, but since I’ve given the Clippers some 80k over the years I feel like maybe I have more of a right to complain about the product, not some guy who once in a while goes out with his buddies because it’s cheap.
Look, if my boss hires me expecting a certain amount of productivity out of me and I don’t produce, I can’t say, “hey it’s just your point of view and thats just subjective. I’m working every day. Give me a break.”
Great logic huh, I thought so.
"I feel like maybe I have more of a right to complain about the product"
And there it is.
Way to foster conversation on this board.
by Michael White on Apr 7, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Eastie Rich is right
Look, let’s not make this an argument of have vs have nots.
I’m saying if you bought a Boxster and the car was always in the shop you’d be pissed.
Now you could admire the Boxster from afar and even if you heard the car had maintenance issues you didn’t suffer any monetary damage from it so you’d be less pissed off.
Sucks for OP, $375k over 25 years is alot of scratch. He could have paid off a home (and made money) for that kind of cash.
FA in 2010.
I totally agree,
It’s a matter of degrees. I think RickK has a good plan. He obviously put some time into it. I think he should get more of a break than me, and why not, look how long he’s been a fan and look how much money he’s put in.
I don’t begrudge the fans in the 200 sections, they get one seat free (basically). Why would I?
If Sterling wants to donate any number of thousands of tickets, that’s something I could be proud of. But that’s also something he’d never do.
Besides, this is a thread about STH’s who feel ripped off, not people who enjoy the low prices because the team is so bad.
I’ve put in about 80k to this team, and to me it’s a big deal.
I'm giving up my tickets as well
I actually make more than I did last year odd as that is in this economy but I also have less free time and honestly watching games in person is bad for your health. We’re hit with a conundrum, do I really want the team to win a few extra games or to lose so we have a better chance at landing Blake Griffin? I’m getting to the point where I almost don’t care about the team, I loathe DTS and MDsr and I rather just get league pass and watch some high quality games from home instead of subjecting myself to this crap.
FA in 2010.
The only reason I care about the team at all is EJ
He can be as good as Ray Allen, maybe even a little better. My prayers are with him that being a Clipper does not tarnish his career.
FA in 2010.
EJ is a great player...
if he weren’t on the Clippers he’d be rookie of the year. However, keeping the coach and gm I only see him following in the footsteps of Odom, Brand and Maggettte.
Great post Rick
The franchise is committing financial suicide. This short sighted strategy of securing cash flow right now will hurt them in years to come. They’re betting on Angelenos infamous short attention span and short memory to help boost season ticket sales if and when the team do well and the economy improves. The real tragic thing here is that the season ticket holders who are leaving this year have stuck with the team through the tremendously lean years. These fans are irreplacable. Once they’ve lost the loyalty of this last group, the franchise is finished in Los Angeles. This will become even more of a one basketball team town…and it will belong to the Lakers.
Michael, I totally agree,
Maybe you could explain it to mwhite and John R. I think they enjoy going to the games and benefiting off the low prices that you and I and all STH subsidize.
And then pontificating about how stupid they think you are for complaining
by Jax on Apr 7, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Please point to where I called or implied either eastie rich or anybody else was stupid
by Michael White on Apr 7, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think maybe Jax feels stupid and is projecting that onto us
Wouldn’t be the first time.
Get me BD and 75 and I'm in
You speak the truth...
This whole franchise is a train wreck. If I had season tickets, I wouldn’t renew. The only way that DTS is going to get a message is if he doesn’t make as much money. Unfortunately, that’s the only thing thing that he cares about. Fortunately, there is something the fans can do about it.
I don’t mean to rub in the whole ticket situation, but I went to five Clipper games this year. At all of them I sat in the seventh row, right at half court. I got the tickets from an an acquaintance of mine who happens to be a ticket broker. Combined for all five of those games in the seventh row, and two tickets per each game, I spend the grand total of ZERO DOLLARS. This guy literally couldn’t find anyone to buy the tickets, so he just gave them to me. Absolutely ridiculous.
"If a Clippers fan is reading a newspaper in his living room and the ceiling falls on him, he'll just shrug and move to another room." -Bill Simmons
by WestsideBrandon on Apr 7, 2009 10:25 PM PDT reply actions
The thing that is really upsetting...
and that I’ve brought up in the other fanpost is that other NBA franchise have acknowledge the recession/depression and are re-pricing their season tickets accordingly. And these are teams with 20+ more wins than the Clippers and are playoff bound. Roeser’s letter to season ticket holders was the equivalent of Marie Antoinette’s “Let them eat cake” pronouncement. It shows the ineptitude of the franchise at all levels. Not only are we frustrated with the product on the court, but the incompetency of the ownership, management, and at every level of the organization makes it almost impossible to support this franchise any longer.
Mr. Rick Kaplan brought up some very valid arguments. When an organization chases new customers at the expense of retaining existing customers, it reveals a fatally flawed enterprise on the verge of collapse. The financial collapse might take longer, but the cancer has been embedded into the marrows of the institution. Mr. Sterling and Roeser might believe that there are plenty of millionaires in Malibu who would gladly pick up courtside seats to Clippers games to replace any old season ticket holders who left…but I wouldn’t hold my breath as long as there’s that other basketball team in town called the Lakers…who is about to win another championship even as we strive to get 20 wins.
The Clippers, as an organization, have always been a blue collar basketball team in the city of glitz. Rarely does the team have a legitimate star player on the roster, but the small season ticket holder base have shown up, game after game, because they’re hoop junkies and wanted to be entertained by a competitive basketball game. We might not have the best talent, but in the past, the players were at least scrappy and likable. We might have lost and lost often, but it was never blown out loss after blown out loss where we trailed wire to wire by double digits. The Lakers might have Showtime and Jack and Diane Keaton and the Hollywood crowd, but the stands at Clippers games have always been filled by everyone else in LA who weren’t drawn to star gazing, who just wanted to watch basketball and couldn’t care less about who was sitting at courtside.
The fact that the Clippers brass paid no attention to other more successful NBA franchises who are slashing season ticket prices to retain loyal fans in this difficult economic environment, even as the Clippers were more wretched than any other NBA team, is a slap in the face to their existing season ticket holders. Roeser’s letter shows that the franchise just don’t give a damn about their most loyal fans. And so, why should we give a damn about this franchise.
Absolutely, I could have sat through this horrible year and hoped it would be better..
next year. But the total disdain this franchise has for it’s fans is amazing. This really was a turning point. Maybe I should be grateful because this way I won’t spend another 80k (or more) on this franchise.
Still, sitting through this game tonight was a little depressing. I’m a huge basketball fan and I’m from Boston so I could never root for the Lakers. It’s really hard imagining not going to any more games. But once I’m done, I’m done. If I don’t renew I’ll never watch another Clipper game – that is until they get another owner.
I think most STH’s agree.
I'll sit out next year and see how we do
I’m hoping that if enough of us walk then they will finally make some changes to resemble a actual NBA franchise. I’ll still watch most games on TV but I’m not going to tie any emotions to this team until I see them make a concerted effort to win. I don’t expect them to change anytime soon (really ever, as long as DTS is the owner) so I’ll just have to support from afar.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 8, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I hear ya...
I was actually on the fence about this until I received Roeser’s letter. I do like most of the fans in my current section, but from talking to them, this seems like the last straw as well. The sad thing is alot of them sound alot like eastie Rich…once they’re out, it doesn’t seem like they will be back. Ever.
Good Points Rick
I’d also like to add that at the very least, the Clippers should give refunds of the price differences between the STH and the fans that buys the tickets up front.
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
You realize
that by buying season tickets, you are already getting a discount of up to 50% off of the face value, depending on where your seats are. No way are they refunding any more money. It’s a calculated risk for anyone to buy season tickets, with no guarantees of team success or for the season to be entertaining. What the Clippers could possibly do is to make some sort of guarantee as far as number of projected wins or playoff appearances or something like that. If the organization doesn’t meet those expected goals, then they would provide some sort of discount or credit for the following season. I just don’t see the organization giving any money back now.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Uhhh...brain lock...
You do realize that every professional sports team give discounts to season ticket holders right? They do this because season ticket holders are supposed to get a better deal per ticket than someone who buys individual game seats. You want customers to buy in bulk. If it’s cheaper for your customers to buy one widget for less price than buying 100, then you will go out of business very quickly. But the main point here is that in this difficult economic environment, more successful NBA teams than the Clippers are slashing ticket prices for season ticket holders on top of the usual discounts. That the Clippers have failed to follow suit after one of the worst seasons imaginable shows their complete disconnect from any sense of reality. We’re not asking for any money back for this season. We’re just livid that after this season, when we’re the laughingstock of the league and the city, the organization is refusing to acknowledge any mistakes or even follow the lead of more successful, playoff bound franchises by at least lowering ticket prices for season ticket holders to match the prices that opposing team fans can get by buying individual game tickets at the box office. It’s idiotic. And if you support that moronic philosophy, then there’s a place for you in the Clippers organization.
Of course
I am fully aware of the team discount to season ticket holders and the reasons for them, being a STH for the Clippers, Angels and Chargers. How much more of a discount do you want? The easiest way for anyone to voice their displeasure is to just not renew. It’s as simple as that.
Is it a slap in the face that they are offering tickets here at the end of the season for almost 70% off…sure it is. If you don’t like it, then just not renew. I personally am not too bothered by it. First, I get 50% off my season tickets already, so no complaints there. Second, the Clippers are just trying to get a return on seats, even if it is a tiny return. I know that I can call my ticket rep and get those same seats or better for free if I ask (which I have done at least 3 times this season).
People may see buying season tickets as an investment (time, money, emotion), or even a chance to make $$. This season did not turn out to be a wise “investment”, but it won’t always be that way (member of club optimism here). How soon we are to forget all the prior losing seasons and be quick to call this season “one of the worst seasons imaginable”. I can imagine it much worst in the past and it getting much worse in the future (ie. MDsr staying and bringing in Isaiah). I guess my point is that yeah, the Clippers organization is not exactly knocking our socks off with new and exciting offers for season tickets. So be it. If they want to commit financial suicide, the only way that will happen is if people don’t renew. Personally, the issue of replacing MDsr takes priority over lowering my ticket prices, but that is just me.
And, if I may ask, what other organizations are “slashing ticket prices for season ticket holders on top of the usual discounts.” I am just curious. I find it hard to believe.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Why would you find it hard to believe...
that organizations wouldn’t slash prices to retain loyal customers in an economic downturn? The most recent team to slash their season ticket prices was the Pistons and they’re heading to the playoffs. A few other teams like Milwaukee, Indiana, Memphis, and Toronto are doing the same if I remember correctly, as there were a string of such announcements a few weeks ago along with the lowered salary cap…you can go through the hoopshype logs and read up on it. For this reason, there had been alot of rumors about the Clippers possibly following suit, as we are more wretched than all the aforementioned teams.
And yes there have been bad seasons in the past. I was here when we won 12 games. And believe me, this team, this coaching staff, and this collection of players who don’t give a shit is worst than that team. Effort counts for something in my book…even more than wins and losses.
It’s very strange that you’re defending the concept of allowing opposing team fans to purchase single game tickets at lower prices than someone who is willing to buy an entire season. To me and most of the other STH I’ve talked to, it’s economic suicide. You must be one of those true fans who declare blind love to their teams regardless of performance and never voice a peep of displeasure. They should honor you at halftime Clip Show. Maybe give you a dinner for two at Bennihana. You are the Clippers dream fan. They can go 0-82 and have Dunleavy as a coach for the next twenty years and you will renew year after year. Well, maybe you will protest a bit when they give Dunleavy an extension, but hey true fans stay loyal no matter what right?
Unfortunately Cage....
you don’t know who I am or what kind of fan I am. But thanks for assuming….you know what they say about when you assume…
Being a fan of a team is a personal thing. How much you spend, whether it be time, money or emotions, is up to the individual. I make no assumptions about your fandom, so I would appreciate you make none about mine.
I do not have blind love for the Clippers…and as I stated in the previous post, my main concern going into this offseason is getting rid of MDsr, not lowering season ticket prices. If the Clips get rid of MDsr, I believe that a lot more people will remain STH as opposed to the Clippers just lower season ticket prices and NOT making any coaching changes. And as I stated before, I already get 50% off my season tickets, so to me, it is highly unlikely the Clips will be giving me even MORE of a discount based on my tenure.
And where do you get the notion that I am “defending the concept of allowing opposing team fans to purchase single game tickets at lower prices than someone who is willing to buy an entire season.” I made no such statement, nor am I pleased with the late season ticket discounts. What about the Clipper fan who can’t afford season tickets…do they not get this same discount? It is now an opportunity to bring in new fans.
Again, I am not pleased by and of this. Is the organization committing financial suicide? We shall see….but how does that affect us fans? If we don’t like the prices, then don’t renew. You can always watch games on TV. Don’t whine about how some other teams are lowering their prices and the Clippers aren’t. If the Lakers were lowering prices, then I think we would have a legitimate gripe. As it is, they are not.
Basketball is a business, and Sterling has shown time and time again that he WILL make a profit, no matter how many games his team wins or how many people are in the stands.
Do or do not. There is no try.
???
Clip Show: “Don’t whine about how some other teams are lowering their prices and the Clippers aren’t. If the Lakers were lowering prices, then I think we would have a legitimate gripe. As it is, they are not.”
Why would the Lakers lower their season ticket prices? They did send out a letter saying that they won’t raise ticket prices next year due to the economic distress, like Roeser did. But did you notice that they’re favored to win the championship AGAIN? Maybe Roeser assumed that we will be favored to win the championship next year like the Lakers, so he’s doing us a favor by not raising ticket prices. As for the Pistons lowering their prices, well…it’s Detroit and this is LA, we don’t have a recession here…heck we only have 10% unemployment, not 18%.
Clip Show: “And where do you get the notion that I am "defending the concept of allowing opposing team fans to purchase single game tickets at lower prices than someone who is willing to buy an entire season." I made no such statement, nor am I pleased with the late season ticket discounts.”
Clip Show (a few minutes earlier): “If you don’t like it, then just not renew. I personally am not too bothered by it. First, I get 50% off my season tickets already, so no complaints there.”
Clip Show: “Basketball is a business, and Sterling has shown time and time again that he WILL make a profit, no matter how many games his team wins or how many people are in the stands.”
The number of people in the stands next year will bear testimony to Sterling and Roeser’s decisions. I wouldn’t put any money on “he WILL make a profit” from the Clippers next year…not with the salaries he’s committed to paying nor the heavy loss of luxury suites/STH renewals. Maybe he can attact casual fans of other teams to see them beat up on the Clips, but in this economic environment, with discretionary spending being what they are, I highly doubt it…even in LA.
I agree
The games aren’t even fun to watch. Who wants to see a bunch of overpaid millionaires half ass it on the court then find out they got arrested for a DUI late that night?
This is LA, there are alot of things to do than drive through LA traffic, buy overpriced beer and food and watch a bad team get smoked while your surrounded by fans of the opposing team at what should be a “home game”. I’d throw my shoe (Iraqi reporter style) at Roeser and Sterling if I saw them on the street, even if I happened to be wearing my Johnston and Murphy’s.
FA in 2010.
When I read these posts I amazed at some of the content.
It’s obvious people like Clip Show don’t have their own business. I do, and I keep it profitable by adding value to both my vendors and my buyers. That’s why, even in this downturn my business is doing well.
Always, without exception, if there is a problem with our product or shipment we make the right adjustments in order to keep our business growing. We have had a higher gross and net every year we’ve been in business because we take care of everyone we do business with.
I’ve been a litte strident with my denounciation of this policy, but I’d bet I’ve had a somewhat unique experience with the Clippers that sours this more for me than for others.
To blithely say, you don’t like it, too bad, don’t renew, is what I’d expect from a Clipper employee, and that’s why their STH’s numbers are going to drop next year. Bank on it.
Completely agree with you eastie...
the companies that will survive this severe contraction are the ones who take extra care of their existing clients/customers base so that the loyalty is reciprocated. It makes absolutely no sense at all to pursue new customers in spite of your old ones, especially during an economic downturn of this magnitude. That’s why Clip Show comment of: “(This) is now an opportunity to bring in new fans,” is completely mind-boggling to me. It’s almost like you and I would burn all of our existing clients by screwing them over and then going out and trying to find new clients in this economy.
My sales executive (who is no longer with the team) told us during the summer that they lost 40% of their season ticket holder base from the previous year. If anyone thinks that the number of corporate suites and STH renewals is going to improve after this season, they need to have their heads examined.
To defend Clip Show a bit, I doubt that he is a Clippers employee. An average Clippers employee don’t care enough to browse these forums to accurately guage their fan’s discontent. When an organization like the Clippers is as rotten at the top, that ineptitude extends all the way down the line.
Michael,
I don’t think he’s an employee either. I just totally don’t understand the rational. It makes zero business sense. Is it possible to make less than zero business sense, maybe some sort of negative sense, because that’s where this is headed. And then the kicker is always “if you don’t like it don’t renew.” Really, there’s more than a few words for that.
Anyhow, we’ll see what happens. Like I said, I’m a huge fan and can’t imagine not going to games. But at a certain point, enough is enough.
Really, the Clippers could have done any number of things, donating tickets was one I’ve advocated. But after reading Clip Show’s post on how he’s gotten free upgrades several times this year I’ve had another idea. What if the Clippers offered season ticket holders the chance mid year to upgrade their seats (going by senority) at not additional cost. Then discount all remaining seats to whatever level you like in order to fill the building.
The more I think of it, the more I realize there were any number of better ways to handle the situation. I can’t believe the entire organization is without imagination. Couldn’t someone have suggested something like this before selling us out?
Yeah...
that’s why I’m completely perplexed by Clip Show comments…it makes no business sense whatsoever. I agree with you, Clipper Chuck, the OP, and most of the responses on this site. I was on the fence about renewing but after getting Roeser’s letter and what transpired this year with regards to the fire sale pricing for everyone else but us, I’ve had it.
LOL
me…a Clipper employee…that’s a good one. And even if I were (which I am not, and Clipper Steve can attest to that), why would I NOT want people to renew? That makes even less sense.
Anyway, like everyone is saying…it appears that the organization is being run by monkeys…..as it has been for the past, I don’t know, 25 years? Will the organization ever get it right? I hope so, but I am not holding my breath. My threshold for incompetency is pretty high I guess, relative to some of my fellow citizens, and I suppose that is why I not so upset about the non-decrease/non-increase in season ticket prices. My breaking point actually lies with the retaining or firing of MDsr. That is what will make me not renew my tickets, and I believe there are quite a few people who feel the same way.
And as far as business sense goes, we can all agree that the Clippers organization has very little of it. Maybe I am just setting the bar a little low, due to past performance. Granted, the only reason I am a season ticket holder is because of the 2 for 1 deal, which was a great idea. If they were to ever get rid of that, the exodus of season ticket holders would be monumental. Ultimately though, I am not running the Clipper organization, and my input is small in comparison to others with larger accounts. The best thing I could do to let the organization know that I am displeased is to NOT renew. And that is why I keep saying that. None of us are part of management (at least I don’t think so), so we hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book. Thats all. Making suggestions about additional discounts, or upgrades or whatever are all fine and dandy, but will NEVER happen. That fact I am resigned to believing. I would rather spend my energy thinking of ways to better the team than saving some $$. If the team makes the correct moves this summer, then the $$ issue will take care of itself.
And don’t think for one bit that I don’t contemplate not renewing either. It will be a difficult decision this summer, but one that could be made a whole lot easier if MDsr is gone.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Yeah...
that’s the other downside of slashing ticket prices heavily this year for single game seats. I’m used to being surrounded by Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Pistons, Knicks, and Cavaliers fans during Clippers games. But now we’re being outnumbered by Kings, Nuggets, Warriors, Portland, Phoenix, Dallas and even Bucks fans. How sad is that….
There's nothing worse than being surrounded by knuckleheaded
Lakers fans yelling Clippers Suck in seats they paid one quarter what we paid for ours.
Precisely
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
They obviously aren’t going to give refunds to anybody, but they really should consider giving some kind of discount for next season’s tickets to the poor souls that bought season tickets for this season. I went in on season tickets with some friends (the first time I’ve ever done this) and was majorly disappointed. I don’t see any reason to renew at this point.
This is a very sad situation
But one that many including myself predicted would happen if they retained MDSr and the management team this year. That’s the real problem with Roeser’s email. Do you really think that Celtics’ management could get away with sending such an insulting email to its fans? As I’ve said numerous times, I don’t think that we should be rationalizing poor performance, particularly when management is asking us to reup without being honest with us about the problems or how it plans to fix those problems.
I’ve been preaching this same thing for three years now. You are right – the only way to get back at them, and to maintain our dignity, and possibly to effectuate change, is not to renew.
maybe we should draft a “season ticket holders union” revolt letter and all sign it with our account numbers. We could make sure they know why we are not renewing and how they could keep us .. because the bottom line is we all still love the team, just hate the results and management.
ditto
I’ll even use the mont blanc to sign it.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 12, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel for you Clippers fans, sounds like some rough times, and I sympathize for anyone that has to put up with Randolph. I respect Rick’s original post. But holy hell eastie Rich is a pompous dick. Maybe you should buy the Clips and run them how you see fit. God knows you’ve lorded the fact that you own a business, and your superior business sense, and your right to complain more than others over everyone here. I realize some personality types have to vent, and be heard doing it, and some have to be heard more than others…but Christ these comments read like a bunch of guys verbally jacking each other off “oh you’re so right,” “no we’re so right” “we’re so business savvy and rich,” and anyone who disagrees is a pauper, a sympathizer, and a fool. Do something, or don’t do something, whining about how you have more of a right to whine…what sort of sense is that?
I'm on your bandwagon. Eating your nachos.
Fanboi
Doing a little venting youself I see. Unlike a random poster who comes in complains about both sides – and mainly me (that’s o.k. I don’t mind). You don’t offer any solutions to the problems the Clippers have in retaining the STH fan base.
And in case you missed it there’s other posts here that describe how important STH’s are. I’m not sure if thats the case, but I’ve read them all without insulting anyone. But perhaps I could start with you – effing idiot.
false advertising is a raw deal
I seem to remember that one reason i got my season tickets was that the clippers advertised that my season ticket price was going to be less than the single game ticket price. but they reneged on that advertising promise. They used that to induce me to get the whole season at the lowest price. I always thought that false advertising was not legal. Did the clippers do something illegal by selling the single ticket games for less than the season ticket price? will some legal mind out there please weigh in on this issue? apology or not, the clipper organization may have breached the law in their greedy quest. what do you think? are partial refunds in order? just so season ticket holders do not pay more than the single game price. that seem fair. lets ask the city attorney
I think...
alot of folks on this website needs to pick up the slack and buy season tickets to replenish the base…because based on the conversations I had with other STH today….it will be catastrophic to the team’s bottom line. My guess is that you will be able to pick seats in the first row of every section this year if you’re a die hard fan.
Also....
any STH that is on the fence about renewing should post about any discounts or free parking that your rep agree to. Dealing with the Clippers rep is like dealing with used car salespeople….everything is negotiable. Share us your discounts, season free parking passes etc when you talk to your rep.
this stuff is negotiable??
Your kidding? I can negotiate a better price or some kind or perk?
I am just now noticing that they lowered the retail price of my ticket from $85 to $75 for next season and did me the favor of leaving my season ticket holder price the same!! What an awesome deal huh?!?
by runfromthefire on Apr 15, 2009 11:54 PM PDT reply actions
Nope, I'm not kidding....
your rep will offer you all kinds of perks if you don’t renew and they’re desperate. This depends on how aggressive your rep is though (certain ones just don’t care…I think they’re nephews of people in the organization). Certain people in my section got what are essentially floor seats for the same price as the permanent seats…we got season long free parking in a designated lot this season (which we rarely used). So when they call you, everything is negotiable…much like buying a used car. The guy that sits next to us said his rep assured him there would be a large discount for returning STH, but that they would deal with them on a case by case basis. But I’ll believe that when I see it.
Free parking?
Really? Do you know what lot that is in? I am paying through the nose for parking, but my lot is directly across the street with great access in and out, so I don’t mind so much. The only bad part is that it is relatively expensive. When I asked my rep earlier this year about moving out of my lot to a cheaper one, he basically told me that everything else was really far away and there were waiting lists.
I am also wondering about there other perks you talk of. I may have to give my ticket rep a call and see what he can do for me.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Any more specifics
you can give me will only help me gain leverage. I have other friends that are STH, and I will also consult with them and see what other “deals” are out there.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Park at the lot on Flower and Pico
Its $5-7 and a 3 minute walk to Staples. I never have to deal with traffic either when leaving.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 18, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
ClipShow...
They gave us Lot 4 for the whole season, but we hardly ever used it as we’ve always found street parking close by and it’s easier to leave after the games then getting out of the lot (I think the face value for the parking pass is $20/game…but I’m not sure). We didn’t renew after last season and was just going to buy single game seats whenever we felt like going, but the new Inside Sales Executives did a pretty good job of talking us into re-signing and offering alot of free perks like free season parking passes etc. I’ve talked to other STH near me and we’re going to keep in touch over the summer with regards to discounts and other perks.
With the Clippers, sometimes the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
Thanks!
I am currently parked in Lot 8, with a $30/game price tag. I am coming all the way from the OC so it is pretty convenient to know that I will always have a spot to park no matter when I arrive, and getting out fast is key because traffic around the stadium can add another 20 minutes to my drive home. At the moment, the I can tolerate the price, but I would be more than willing to save some $$ from parking if I can.
My rep is one of the senior account reps and I rarely ever talk with him. He is an ok rep, returning phone calls usually within a couple of days. Only recently have I been asking for things like upgrades, and for the most part he has given them to me. I am thinking about calling him next week to see what other kind of incentives they can offer me. I will be sure to post any news I get.
Do or do not. There is no try.
You can try that Clipshow...
but with us, we let our ticket renewal deadline lapsed and they called us back later in the summer when they were desperate to retain STH. My experience has been that the more experienced reps aren’t very attentive. Our best reps have always been the youngest and newest ones, but alas, they don’t stay with the Clippers very long, it seems.
Out of curiosity, who is your rep?
by MichaelCage on Apr 18, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
MY rep
is Cedric Wilson. He has been there as a long as I can remember (over 10 years). Who is yours? Thanks for the advice. :)
Do or do not. There is no try.
Oh yeah...
we had Cedric when we started out years ago. He’s actually pretty good, though not that attentive. We got transferred to the Inside Sales Executives guys this past year. Our previous rep is no longer with the team and we just got transferred over to the Tamika, who’s head of Fan Relations. She seems pretty good so far, though a bit wooden in terms of public relations (Who’s your favorite Clipper?…is her standard greeting line).
Because Cedric has been around so long, you might have a hard time getting any extra perks or discounts on your tickets though…but with renewals projected to be so bad this year, you never know.
They've always treated my like they were doing me a huge favor by
accepting my money. If they act that way this upcoming year, I’m gone. Enough is enough.
LMAO
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Apr 16, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't catch the interview on ESPN radio.
But I did catch the first minute where the one annoucer said you when buy the tickets there’s no guarantees so get used to it. Wow, what a dick.,
I thought of an analogy that might work for some people. Imagine buying a car, a nice one for say 50k, it doesn’t have everything but it’s a good model. Then for whatever reason (any at all) the same dealership offers the totally loaded model, the 75k one for 17k. How ripped off do you feel? Apparently not many people here would,
Then say you get a notice in the mail from the same dealership saying we appreciate your business so to show our appreciation were going to sell you the new 2010 model for the same price you paid for your 2009 model.
Would you purchase that car? Would you ever patronize that dealership again? Apparently alot of you would.
O.k. now you all can start telling me how this business is like no other. Hello Fanboi?
Anybody who re-ups at full price without some real incentives really does have money to burn.
Announcers have no clue on how to run a business
No franchise would willingly add any performance guarantees to the tickets contractually but a smart franchise would be proactive and try to compensate/reward STH so they renew next season. It’s ALOT easier to retain clients than it is to find new ones as anyone who has ever run a business would attest to.
Still its puzzling, the Clippers must have enough data to figure out the acquisition cost of each season ticket holder (how much they spend on marketing, events etc.) vs the cost of giving away free upgrades or tickets (varies based on how much they could sell them at discounted rates for). Either they are so poorly run they don’t have anyone even tracking these metrics or they have run the numbers and apparently the season (and feedback) was so bad they knew so few of us would renew it was pointless to try to retain us.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 17, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Did anybody hear the interview? Can anybody fill me in?
RickK was that you?
I just listened to it and there were some things the Clipper rep said that just
plain weren’t true. How insulting.
Where's the interview?
I want to hear it too.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 18, 2009 3:18 AM PDT up reply actions
HI Clipper Chuck, here's the link..
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/710espn/sectional?id=masirepodcasts
It’s the one o’clock to two o’clock hour.
Please post and let me know what you think. I’ve been through some really bad times with my Clipper reps so I’m not inclined to give them a break (ever).
Over a week ago I e-mailed my rep with some questions and they never got back to me. I still haven’t received a renewal package. Once they sold my seats out from under me.
Without some common sense or courtesy I’m really not into throwing my money away.
Let me know if you get a different opinion.
LOL...
well when we changed sections at the beginning of the year, our rep tried to sell us seats of the STH who were sitting next to us. The poor guy had to lean over and say, “Sorry man, these four seats are mine, I already paid for them this season…I’m only using two today.”
One year I went to renew after receiveing no mail notices or e-mail and was told "sorry, we
already sold your seats." As a reward, I had to pay regular price for seats about a dozen rows back and they acted like they were doing me a Huge Favor.
Since I haven’t even heard from them I can’t see going through this again.
I thought Rowdy Rick was awesome
Pretty much summed up the rationale for the STH base.
I don’t get why Clipper fans would want to cherry pick games against the Cavs etc. It’s a reminder of how bad our team is compared to a good team plus you’ll have a hard time witnessing a win if you only go to games against the Cavs, Celtics, Lakers etc.
FA in 2010.
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