Cornerstones - Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon
by madglove on May 19, 2009 11:28 PM PDT
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PrintI'm beside myself with how lucky we got tonight.
I'm not thrilled because we won the lottery. We've won the lottery before.
I'm thrilled because we finally won THE lottery. We finally won a lottery where there's a consensus #1 who is virtually a sure thing. This isn't a year of Olowakandi or other potential busts at #1. This is a year where the guy at the top is someone who THIRTY teams would want. Look back at the draft history - guys like that are rare.
What's even better is how well he compliments Eric Gordon. The two can form a lethal inside-outside game for the next decade. They're cut from the same mold - humble, strong, hard working and ultra talented. Blake inside will open up EJ's outside game, and EJ's three point shooting will give Griffin more space to dominate inside. It's a combo that every team desires. Now the team just needs to fill in the spots around those two cornerstones.
And even with Baron, I think he'll be a perfect compliment. A big who can run and gun with him. I really believe that the trio of Baron, EJ and Griffin will flourish next season.
Priority #1 right now should be to TRADE Z-BO. The last thing we need is him hampering Griffin's development.
Here's a great highlight reel of Griffin: Blake Griffin - The Next Big Thing
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Couldn’t agree more. Especially on trading Z-Bo. He needs to stay as far away from Griffin as possible.
“He needs to stay as far away from Griffin as possible.”
What do you think he’s going to do, ask him to get high with him?
by Michael White on May 20, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you, mwhite...
…this ZBo-is-a-bad-influence stuff is silly. The Clips brought him in to score points and rebound which he does with profundity. If Blake Griffin is as forceful and single-minded as he seems, there just isn’t a problem.
Look at it the other way, maybe Zach Randolph can teach Griffin some of his tricks, like shooting, rebounding, and super-slick post moves. The only reason the Clips should trade Randolph is for value returned.
He's a cancer and he should be moved
Of course, they can’t move him, so they will have to figure out something.
Good luck, MDSr GM.
I didn't get the impression that he was a cancer in LA
They team actually played better when he got here. Looks like Zach is staying this season at least.
He should be moved, but he won’t.
F-Elton!
That "cancer" word bugs me....
I know where you’re getting it, but it’s a shallow observation. Portland had a problem with their “rep” but it was largely brought on by players other than Zach Randolph (Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudamire, Isaiah Rider, Ruben Patterson, Qyntel Woods, etc). They needed to clean house and they did… but Randolph was more of a reminder than a true representative.
We can agree to disagree
There’s a reason no one wants the guy despite the offensive numbers he puts up.
Yeah!
I was just about to respond the same way. If no one wants the guy it’s because he’s too expensive for a player who won’t or can’t play defense.
So… you keep him for a year and trade that whopping 17M in 2010-11. Isn’t anything else just a panic move?
Not to me
This is hopefully the beginning of something special. Zbo would seem to detract from and delay that. Having said that, they need a new GM and coach before they can really move forward, so perhaps none of this matters.
Z-Bo = Cat Mobley
We’ve been in this situation before. We know how it goes. With a fairly productive veteran in front, the rookie gets limited minutes, struggles with PT and confidence. If that vet is traded away and the spot given to the young stud, he flourishes.
I realize some of you guys are primarily Clippers fans and not as big on following the rest of the league, but you don’t handle a #1 overall pick (a REAL #1 pick, not a Olowakandi bust #1 pick) the way you handle a 5th or 6th pick. You give the keys to Blake Griffin and ride with him from Day 1. The future of the franchise depends on it. It’s absurd to risk hampering ANY of his development for freaking Zach Randolph.
And I don’t even care that Z-Bo has character issues or whatever. The reality is that he’s in Blake Griffin’s way and Blake Griffin is the future of this franchise.
I think you're unending hatred for MDSr
The guy can do no right.
Look most us Clipper fans are not big fans of Dunleavy, but I refuse to put the blinders on and look at everything through a biased lense.
Not everything the guy does is wrong.
Next season CAN go well under Dunleavy. He is a mediocre coach, not a piss poor one, and with a good healthy roster we could do some damage.
this wouldn't be the first time
the blazers got rid of z-bo as soon as they drafted oden with the same mentality
I'm with you
Can definitely see these guys as something of a Deron Williams/ Carlos Boozer connection. And obviously, this is just a little more exciting than our successful but relatively unsexy Cassell/ EB tandem.
As far as ZBO, it’s definitely a big issue to address, but my feeling is the team is probably still too “win now” oriented to want really want to move him. If Dunleavy’s still calling the shots, it’ll also be hard for him to admit he was wrong about going and getting Zach.
Gut feeling is that the Clippers wont clear the way for Griffin right away. They may prefer to let Griffin prove he’s worthy of it first.
ZBo isn't going anywhere...
ZBo’s unmovable contract is a big issue. The only solutions are to trade Kaman/Camby..which should not be too hard to do. The Clips had a few games going small last year with ZBo at Center…not ideal, but the guy still is an above-average rebounder, despite his shaky on the ball defense. They’ll find a solution. Having Camby around a year to mentor Blake isn’t a bad idea…and at the end, the Clips have cap space from his expiring contract.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
There are legit arguments for keeping all of the bigs
For one, Griffin seems to have good things to say about Kaman. Wouldn’t necessarily want to go ahead and force a deal after hearing that.
Randolph is definitely productive (at least offensively), and might really be forced to play his best basketball with Blake Griffin breathing down his neck. Plus, having 2 power forwards is better than one. For next year anyway.
Camby is a team leader, a high character guy that acted as the glue of the team at times last year. He’s just an ace in the hole that we have to help us next year, and if someone makes us an offer we can’t refuse at some point, so much the better.
This basically makes Brian Skinner expendable, and may lessen our efforts to retain Steve Novak unless we feel he can play Small Forward.
This is a win-win from what I could see...
Hey guys—Griffin going up against a 20-10 guy every day in practice will do wonders for his development…how many rookies can do that? There were only 2-3 such players in the league last season… Z-Bo playing against a player who is HUMBLY out-working and outplaying him every day in practice will hopefully show him another way to be… This is a win-win as long as the players focus on the prize and stop focusing on who gets to start but on how they can win a championship. If Magette wasn’t such a block-head all those years, he would have figured out that he should focus on contributing regardless of whether or not he got the start…
A deal has to be made ...
We have a log jam between the 4 and 5 positions and serious depth problems at the 1,2 and 3. A deal will be made at some point, whether it happens during the off-season or prior to the trade deadline.
One of the questions that I have concerns the development of Deandre Jordan, could he be used as trade bate? Personally, I’d love to see him stay with the team but is that really going to happen? Considering how hard it would be to deal Z-Bo at all and the low trade value of Kaman, would this be the best option to receive immediate depth at the 2/3?
Just some random thoughts after midnight …
Let's see what our team could look like
BD/ Taylor
EJ/ Jones
Thornton/ Collins/ Novak
Griffin/ Randolph
Kaman/ Camby/ DeAndre
That’s a pretty good 12 man rotation, also keeping in mind Collins can also play the 1 or 2 and that Novak could play the 4, we would have at least 3 options at every position assuming this is what our team looks like.
yeah im not sure how well zbo would react to coming off the bench for a rookie. Maybe hes going to retire instead, like AI. and im also not sure about having 2 guys making 25 million off the bench, both at the bigs. But in theory, zach could get us easy buckets off the bench, although he tends to take alot of shots (maybe deservedly so)
I don’t know how Zach will react, but I’ll react strongly. Zach is a 20/10 (as has been said elsewhere) while Griffin is 19 and has to develop offensively to be effective in the NBA. He’s not going to be stronger than everyone anymore. Griffin can provide solid depth off the bench and be groomed into the starting role. You don’t need to throw a 19 year old into the starting role in this situation, particularly since he will be an offensive downgrade compared to the guy you’ve already got. Griffin can come in and play defense, high energy, etc. Zach will be gone by the time he’s 21— no sense rushing this.
by Michael White on May 20, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I totally agree
The starters next year need to be Kaman and Randolph. Griffin is 19 years old, and his game is still raw. Aside from the fact that dunleavy is the coach and would never start a 19 yr old rookie unless he absolutely had to (Gordon last season), ZBO in is one of our 2 best offensive players. And for "how terrible " his contract is, hes not far away from being expiring contract (who is actually still productive) that wont be that hard to move. Griffin will get minutes off the bench and earn his playing time. Who cares if it takes a season or 2.
As for the logjam in the frontcourt…We got Camby for nothing, and were gonna lose him for nothing if we dont trade him this year. I think we can get great value for Camby and really put our team in a great place for the future.
Camby
How about we let Camby’s contract expire, and spend his 10M on a free agent in 2010? The only way we get something good for Camby is if a stupid playoff team gets desperate, but playoff teams usually aren’t stupid.
I'll react strongly too
Zbo is not a good influence for a team trying to get better. Hopefully when he isn’t starting any more he won’t show up and they won’t have to pay him.
There, problem solved, mwhite’s man-crush notwithstanding.
"Starting" is overrated
I don’t see Griffin starting immediately unless Zach really doesn’t get on board with what the team is trying to do, but this could easily be something of a Mobley/ EJ situation. Two guys deserving starter minutes, and not getting them. But remember Blake has a year more experience than EJ did a year ago and is thought of as a better prospect. If you thought clearing the way for EJ last year was a good move, this is a very similar situation, except both the incumbent and the rookie are more productive.
As for who starts between Kaman & Camby, I don’t think it matters as much anymore. See how the chemistry develops in practice and go from there. All I know is that if we keep these guys and they all buy in, we’re gonna grab a ton of rebounds next year.
it seems like a similar situation to portland 2 years ago
roy/gordon
oden/griffin
think about it both have randolph, however i think we should trade camby, not randolph. and just like in portland i think it will be gordon(roy) the most important guy in the team.
I really really hope we don’t end up comparing Griffin to Oden in the future :)
by Michael White on May 20, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
You will
Enjoy the world of rookie big men foul trouble. Btw Zach was traded away to let Aldridge play more.
by Sabonis4Ever on May 25, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Griffin will be the face of the franchise
Understand what we have in Griffin that we’ve never had before – A guy who the NATIONAL MEDIA cares about. Just having him on the team will put the Clippers on the national radar. Griffin is humble, but he’s also fiery and is known to be a practical joker. He has a good personality, he’s well spoken and is comfortable in front of the cameras. Not to mention that the kid is built like Captain America.
The only problem with EJ is that he has ZERO personality. He’s a fantastic player, but he has no leadership qualities and he’s painful in front of the camera. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more awkward smile on a pro athlete. EJ is quiet and lets his game do the talking. Nothing wrong with that. As long as he’s not your #1.
Griffin will be this team’s franchise, with EJ as a solid #2 compliment. With those in place, you just have to find complimentary pieces around them. First and foremost, get the distractions (Z-Bo) out of their way.
It's an interesting argument...
But I’m not sure it adds up. Like… why isn’t Baron Davis in that same “distraction” category? It certainly seems as though Baron did little or nothing to help Eric Gordon get going last year. Will he have the same attitude with Griffin? If you’re going to get rid of distractions, isn’t Baron Davis and his ridiculous, no-D, me-first, pull up 3-pointer game the biggest one?
And, did Cat Mobley’s presence on the starting five really hold EJ back? Or give him a couple of months to get his feet wet? You could make the argument either way.
Don’t get me wrong, in my mind, Blake Griffin should be the starting power forward by January… and perhaps he should be the starter on opening night… If he’s really as good as everyone says it’ll happen and happen fast. And I hope hope hope he IS the “face of the franchise” for years to come. But I’d hate to see him bounce in and out of the lineup like Michael Beasley did last year. Remember him? Highly touted “power-forward”, amazing athlete, amazing body, and on the night of the lottery he was touted as an perennial-all-star-in-the-making. Only… yeah, he isn’ t that big, doesn’t pass or play defense, and seems to have a head full of rocks.
And no, I don’t think Blake Griffin would have been taken before him last year. Maybe this year, not last year.
by John Raffo on May 20, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
I’ve been wondering the same thing. Why is Z-Bo the problem when Baron Davis was a complete no-show last year? Zach has his issues, but at least he performs—- Baron fell off a cliff last year.
by Michael White on May 20, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh...that's not true re: Baron and EJ
EJ specifically said that Baron helped him a lot last year and if you watched the games, Baron was seen talking to EJ a lot and trying to mentor him.
And plus, the comparison doesn’t even make any sense. We want Z-Bo gone because we have a #1 overall pick who plays the same position. We have nobody behind Baron. If the team was drafting Ricky Rubio, then maybe it would make some sense.
And Beasley’s stock dropped when they found out he was closer to 6-8 than 6-10. There was talk even before the draft that maybe Beasley was better suited to play the 3 because he wasn’t a bruiser. There’s no such talk of Griffin.
Fair enough
Your argument then is to unload ZBO simply because he plays the same position as Griffin— as opposed to the “he’ll be a bad influence” stuff. Okay, I get that.
Personally, I would keep Randolph and start him and see what’s what. I’ve basically argued since the season ended that our current team (before I knew about getting Griffin) was good enough to make the playoffs next year. If we look like a playoff team with Randolph starting and Griffin coming off the bench, then we proceed in that fashion. It won’t hurt Griffin’s development to come off the bench for 1 year and become a starter still at the very young age of 20.
by Michael White on May 20, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You called ZBo a "distraction"...
That’s what I was reacting to.
And I did watch the games last year. Most of them anyway. I didn’t see much chemistry between BD and EG. Wish I had. Obviously we’re all hoping for better out of Baron next year.
And no one wants Zach Randolph to be a roadblock to Blake Griffin’s development. Incidentally, Kevin Arnovitz has some quotes from Neil Olshey on his site regarding the possibility that Griffin could play minutes at the three. There’s a possible solution for the logjam. I’ll link to it in a fanshot.
thats what i was thinking. there is no reason why blake shouldnt get minutes at the 3. This guy is so athletic, he should be able to flourish running the point! but in all honesty, zack’s father died last year, dont be so quick to judge. he was one of our most consistent guys last year. we can’t dump him like that. blake will adapt, he’s got a team spirit that may rub off on all our guys
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