The Blake Griffin Effect/Conference Call Thoughts
by moKi on May 21, 2009 12:48 AM PDT
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PrintI almost want to renew now. Sigh.
Decisions, decisions. Even with the prospect of a BG team next year, I somehow still think I will be able to get better seats for less than STH prices if I wait and go single game. What do you guys think?
Anyhow, on to…
The Effects of drafting Blake Griffin at #1
1. Novak is a goner.
According to Hoopshype the Clips will take on a cool $5M to add Young Grif. Playing in the same position and taking that much money, I doubt the Clips can afford to keep the fan favorite, "Buy Season Tickets" commercial, 3 ball, Net killer Novak.
He got far too much attention from other teams for his sharp shooting last season. He will be offered something the Clips won't match.
[6"10" white guys who could stroke a three but can't defend? Vlad Rad, Novak - one and done.]
2. Style of Play - What is it?
Dunleavy always liked to tell interviewers that the Clippers could play both uptempo AND halfcourt. They could run "selectively" when the opportunities arose but dump it in the post when needed. But how will Griffin fit into Dunleavy's system? What is Dunleavy's system? Will he bombard Griffin with a gigantic playbook? Or will Dunleavy adjust to Griffin? Will he even start him?
3. Randolph or Thornton Will Not Be Happy
If the Clips play Young Grif Laker/Thunder style, as a big 3 (Odom, Durant - tall SFs) Thornton will see less playing time and probably be pretty unhappy. If the Clips try to play faster, playing Young Grif at the 4, Randolph will not be happy coming off the bench, not to mention the fact that he makes far too much money to not play big minutes.
4. Griffin Will Not Be Happy If He Doesn't Start
So if the Clips decide to start Thornton and Randolph and bring in Griffin to spell both of them, will he be happy? The Heat brought Beasley in games off the bench, but I think Young Grif is a far different player than B-Easy. Grif's game seems far better suited as a starter than Beasley's laid back, jacking up jumpshots game.
5. If I Was GM & Coach
Next seasons lineup at this point would be...
PG: Baron Davis, Mike Taylor, Eric Gordon
SG: Eric Gordon, Fred Jones, Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis
SF: Mardy Collins, Al Thornton, Blake Griffin, Ricky Davis
PF: Blake Griffin, Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman
C: Marcus Camby, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Kaman
Gone: Skinner (buyout? - he has a player option according to ESPN), Novak, Acker
Forced to Keep: Ricky Davis (possible buyout? - also has a PO)
I would definitely try to keep Jones as you need someone behind Gordon who can make big shots (remember all those clock winding down 3s Fred hit?) He shouldn't cost too much and hopefully no one else in the league knows how serviceable he still is.
I would definitely try to get rid of Zach Randolph, even if it meant losing Kaman to get a decent SF. Why? Zach fit well into Dunleavy's super slow throw it in the post boring EB offense. But according to our conference call today, next year's team will be uptempo. That means less Zach and Chris (slow and slower) and more Griffin and Camby/DeAndre.
Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, Anthony Parker, Marquis Daniels, Trevor Ariza may all be available. A decent SG/SF/PF could make this team complete.
Conference Call Thoughts
Although I missed a large chunk of the call since my phone kept cutting out, the parts I heard seemed to be the same message over and over.
1. Dunleavy is staying.
The Clips regret bringing in so many new people last year. Too much change was no good. (Olshey kept saying "15 new guys") So for the sake of stability they want to keep as many of the same people around for next year which means sticking with Dunleavy.
2. They Are Not Looking for a GM at the Moment
They said they feel Dunleavy can do both as of now but will keep evaluating it and if it seems like there needs to be a separate GM in the future they are open to it. Blah blah blah.
3. Vague Promise To "Do Something" Next Season
If after everyone is healthy and had time to gel and learn the coach's system and the team is not performing up to expectations of "entertaining and competing every night, and SUCCESSFUL" then Andy Roeser will "definitely do something about it". I took that to mean that when Dunleavy runs out of the "too many injuries - not enough time together - too many new guys" excuses they will fire him. But again they did not specifically say that.
4. Next Year's Team Will Be Uptempo
Roeser repeatedly promised a "young, exciting, uptempo" team. I hope he told Dunleavy that. When asked about Dunleavy micromanaging Baron and not letting him play a more freestyle game, he once again brought out that MDSr and BD have talked and are on the "same page". More vagueness. What page are they on? Is Dunleavy gonna take a trip to India, smoke some pot and come back a changed man? Or are we going to see the same old, stubborn, coach - screaming at everyone the whole game? Once again - blah blah blah.
5. Season Ticket Prices May Be Negotiable?
At the end of the call he asked all STHs to call their reps to see what they could do "depending on where their seats are" to make sure they had the best seats at a price that is affordable to them. I took that to mean if you have good negotiating skills and any amount of leverage (many years as an STH, higher priced seating) you should call your rep and work out whatever you can (most likely better seats at the same price, who knows? - maybe a discount).
Me? I'm still done.
Drafting Blake Griffin is nice but not enough for me to renew. I'll be waiting for Website Wednesdays and Fastbreak Fridays so I can start laughing at all those STH suckers.
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Thanks for the recap...
I am perplexed with YOUR starting line up though…
You have Mardy Collins starting? Really? Over Al? Wow.
And Kaman is third on your depth chart at both the 3 and 4, behind Jordan even? I guess we know who you want gone. And then you go on to call Kaman “slower”? I guess you have made your feelings about Kaman pretty clear.
When healthy, Kaman is a top 5 center on both sides of the court. He is also very agile and quicker than most people think. I know this is all depends on his health, but I am not ready to give up on him quite yet. The dude is only 27 years old. Plus, he has a poison pill in his contract, so I really don’t see him going anywhere anytime soon.
Zach is the one that needs to go, plain and simple. Although, it will be far from simple to get rid of him.
Also, your last point about the STHers calling their rep. A little over a week ago I actually got a call from my rep and we had a lenghy conversation (almost an hour long), ranging from renewing, to MDsr, and even about upgrading. Where I sit (200’s) all the seats are exactly the same price, so I am not sure me calling him up and asking for better seats is going to get anywhere, but I guess its worth a try. It’s interesting that they would say something like that.
I still have 2 days to decide on renewing, but now that the Clips have the #1 pick, its going to be hard NOT to renew.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Mardy is only a PG
when everyone is down. He’s a terrible defender, but who wasn’t on this team. I think we keep him because he’s cheap
My Reason for Mardy
Mardy has point guard skills in a 6’6" SF body. Maybe not fabulous PG skills, but skills none the less.
Baron did very well playing with Stephen Jackson in GS who also had PG skills in a SF body. I see Mardy kind of taking over that role, letting Baron play a little more like he did in GS. Mardy has proven that he can get to the middle, he has that spin move, and he finished quite well. He also showed that he can kick out when the defense comes to him. He is more of a facilitator while Al has earned his reputation as a Black Hole.
He is also beefier than Al, seemingly smarter than Al and thus should be a better defender, which is what I would want with the other guys who can and should do most of the scoring – Gordon, Griffin, and Baron. Mardy and Marcus will be more for defense and assists (Marcus has shown that he uses his height well to make some terrific passes).
Al can be the scorer that he wants to be jacking up jumpshots off the bench. Along with Taylor and DeAndre, he should be fun to watch in a second unit.
I'm not the biggest Mardy fan
but understand the versatility of Mardy. He does provide a steady hand if Taylor isn’t playing well. But offensively, he needs to know down shots.
I agree
While it seems like many people in CLipperNation are skeptical with Kaman, i think Kaman still has some value.
Heres the thing, at Randolphs contract, thats the reason why we want him gone. If Zach was being paid 8 mils and not a virus/ cancer, we’d be okay.
I think that
pg Baron
Sg Gordon
sf Thornton
pf Griffin
C Kaman with help from Deandre
Bench Randolph and Camby.
I think Deandre is great when it comes to faster offense. Lob passes from Baron to Griffin and Deandre would be coming all day!
no but i think Griffin needs to start if you want your uptempo offense that Baron so deeply wants.
I'm definitely disappointed
in Kaman. I remember when he was supposed to have “Tim Duncan-like” skills. He’s just been so inconsistent and he seems more interested in hunting and taking his boat to Mexico, it’s like he doesn’t really care about winning. He seems to want to play well, but believes the Clippers are cursed and the rumors about him not doing his best to come back from injury since the team had a bad record did not sound good.
Yeah DJs a project for sure. But since Roeser kept saying the team was gonna have young guys we could look forward to watching for a long time, I figure trade Kaman while he still has value, before he gets older and throw DJ in the fire. He may not be ready for prime time but he sounds like a better mix to achieve the “uptempo, entertaining” team we are being promised. C’mon, watching DJ dunk lobs is far more entertaining than watching Kaman flip balls at the hoop, holding your breath while they wobble on the rim.
I like Kaman but they may need to part with him somehow to get rid of Z-Bo, which is what I truly believe is the main issue. With Young Grif drafted they won’t have room for both.
You are absolutely right! Every time Kaman gets the ball in the post, it’s just so scary. The clips aren’t going to make noise in the playoffs if they make it there, so why not let jordan play and learn and just start dunking on people! Randolph needs to go too, the big rumor for Richard Jefferson sounds really good, hope that happens. But the main thing that must go is the coach…he’s so in love with kaman, it seems he designs every play for him, and kaman doesn’t deliver….oh well, hopefully they won’t screw up the draft and go for rubio instead.
I still think Kaman is good when healthy too
Which is why they need to call it a day with him and trade him while he still has value. Use his value to somehow get rid of Z-Bo. What is the poison pill?
As far as Mardy, I wrote my reasons in another comment here.
I was in the 200s too. I will miss the freebies but will appreciate having more money in my pocket. I’ve already got all the blankets and backpacks I could want.
Great analysis
Lots of issues, but this is a good start.
My primary initial quibble is with the idea of giving Deandre Jordan so much responsibility. I guess if you keep Camby, and ship out Kaman and Randolph, DJordan is still not a starter (but certainly, in that scenario, you want Novak back, right—the only PFs are Griffin and sort of Camby, maybe Skinner).
Trading Kaman and Randolph is a monster deal with a lot of salary going out. Easier said than done.
Collins as a starter is an interesting notion, but if you make any of your trades the Clips would be able to bring in a starting SF. I think Collins is a better version of QRoss, a nice piece, but they should be able to get a legitimate SF starter if they ship out Kaman and Zbo.
I think you should renew your tickets, but that’s just Club Optimism. So you negotiate. Ask for something crazy that makes it worth your while. It seems like they might make deals and give STH’s at least a part of the reduction/giveaways that they had through last season, to fill seats and keep them around. Fans deserve it, and the Clips know that. Interesting topic.
Interesting you bring up QRoss
Roeser or Olshey brought him up in the conference call today saying that they wanted fans to give the starting lineup, “whatever it turns out to be” a chance before jumping down their throats like when Ross was promoted to a starter while benching Maggette.
If I were crazy, which I am – I would do Mardy in front of Thornton in just the same manner, just to see if it would work. Theory being – you should have enough scoring from Gordon, Griffin and Baron. Bring Thornton and Z-Bo off the bench to provide punch for the second unit.
I appreciate your persistent optimism CZ! But I’ve made my decision to go single games. Maybe I’ll buy a smaller package of games I really want to see, but I doubt it. The financial benefits of waiting for cheap seats at the last moment seem more important than any STH “benefits” or the insurance of having “my own” seats.
Thornton & Randolph
Are definitely big issues heading in to next year.
Baron Davis is definitely the wild card as well. We know he can’t do any worse than last year, but just how much better will he be? That’s the question.
Dude Griffin can't play the 3
So it doesn’t effect Al. It would fail just like Camby playing the 3 did. He doesn’t shoot the ball and he can’t quite slash to the basket from the perimeter. He’s a banger and thrives sticking around in the paint. Randolph and Kaman are the odd men out, not Al.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 20, 2009 4:52 PM PDT reply actions
And for what Al is being paind the next couple of years
It’d be stupid to push him aside. We pay him under 2 million next season and he’s giving us nearly 17 ppg, 5 boards, and 1.5 assists. We pay Zach over 16 million and receive 3 more points and 5 more rebounds. Not to mention his off court issues….The Clippers aren’t moving Al. Kaman and Zach will be the first to go.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 20, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Griffin May Be Able to Play 3
On the conference call today, someone asked where the Clippers saw Blake fitting in especially with Randolph in mind. The answer they gave was that from what they’ve seen, Blake may be able to play more than just the 4. Maybe I’m dreamin but I doubt they meant adding him to the 5 list with Kaman, Camby and DeAndre.
From his interview with ESPN he said he could dribble and pass and that he would be versatile enough to play the way the team needs him to. I see that as meaning some kind of time at the 3, since there is a log jam at the 4-5 positions as of now.
I personally have not seen enough of him to form an opinion. My giving him time at the 3 on my list was simply based on what I’ve read and the desire to see a big lineup that might matchup with the Lakers, Magic and Thunder who all have very tall SFs. Could he keep up with Odom, Durant, or Turkeyglue? I don’t know, but it would be VERY cool if he could keep pace with them. He seems pretty quick from the youtube vids I’ve seen so I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility.
He’s not a good enough shooter to play the 3 right?
by Michael White on May 21, 2009 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about the three
But I read this on Hoopsworld.
The Clippers believe Griffin may be versatile enough to play the five against some of the small centers in the league and three against bigger small forwards in addition to his natural position at the four.
At least the Clippers aren't overly excited
how about just letting him play some 4 and see how it goes
well offensivly it would be a mess. griffin doesnt have the ability to stretch the defense so if hes left on the perimeter he will be ignored.
Yeah playing the 5 might work if we're going against someone playing small ball
as Griffin is quick for his size but the 3….really? His defense is already one of the weaker parts of his game and you want to stick him on the perimeter. Even in a zone it’s still a huge stretch.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 21, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Based on the Chad Ford workout writeup
We haven’t seen the entire Blake Griffin package. Apparently he did the best on the handling drills (even better then the combo guard), has extremely good lateral quickness, and has pretty good defense.
Why haven’t we seen this before? Coach didn’t want him to defend too physically, he was too important and they didn’t want him picking up fouls. OKC needed him for one purpose inside banging.
Apparently he’s got a fairly decent stroke as well.
Found this on my.Clippers.com
In an interview with Neil Olshey, Clippers’ Asst GM
Is Griffin quick enough to play some three?
“I absolutely think so. Offensively I think Blake is a lot more versatile than people give him credit for. Part of the college game is using guys to the advantage of the team. Jeff (Capel) is a phenomenal college coach and Blake was very one-dimensional there because he was so good at that one dimension, they didn’t need to expand it. They had perimeter guys like Willie Warren and Taylor (Griffin) and they kept him kind of in a box. He averaged 23 and 14 doing it. He has phenomenal lateral movement, he’s quick and he’s a high level athlete. I think some teams will play some small fives and he’d have the physicality to play against them, he’s well suited at the four, but I also think at the three… this (Lakers-Nuggets) series is indicative of this. You’ve got a big three in Lamar Odom out there; I think Blake’s got the quickness to play in the lane from the hoop and the physicality to bang with him on the block. There are going to be a lot of ways, and the ability to play with a guy like Baron (Davis) who can set the table for him, it’s not just going to be about getting him to the ball in the low post and letting him go to work. Whether he fills the wing in transition and goes upstairs and catches lobs because he can catch and finish on the move, or whether you send him rim running and pin and seal him in the post against a small, he can play the style we want to play, which is up-tempo.”
Zach will be gone
I don’t think DJ should be over Kaman, he still has a way to go. Blake is a 4 and I heard he’s a legit 6’9" w/o shoes
hollinger had some good trade scenarios. get rid of zbo ASAP ! we dont need anymore offcourt drama. and on court..
Hey, Zbo was charged w/ reckless driving and not a DUI...
Besides he stimulates the strip industry in LA in this down economy.
Trade Zbo
I thought he was charged with a DUIwhich was then reduced
Because he’s wealthy and brought in a high-powered lawyer
Exactly what happened
I know someone who is on the force who made the “arrest” and he said all it takes is some $$ and a good lawyer and you will get your charge reduced. Kinda sad really, that people with $$ and power get away with crap like that.
Do or do not. There is no try.
I really don’t plan on trying to defend Z-Bo to this blog everywhere somebody says to trade him. Frankly, there’s far too many of you, so I couldn’t keep up even if I wanted to. But I definately worry that we will not be able to score next year if you unload Zach. Griffin has good things about him, defense, energy, etc. But even guys really high on Griffin acknowledge he is very much a work in progress on the offensive end. It should be fine as long as Kaman is on the floor. Kaman (when healthy) can be a dominant scorer in the post. Coupled with EJ at the 2, the Clippers should be able to score just fine. But as we know, Kaman gets hurt which would leave us with a front court of Griffin and Camby. A front court of Griffin and Camby will be offensively challenged. It reminds me of the first half of the 2007-2008 season, when you basically needed to have either Corey or Kaman on the floor at all times, because nobody else could put the ball in the rim.
Trading Zach is one thing, making Zach more tradable by including Kaman would be a very bad decision in my opinion.
by Michael White on May 21, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
well that depends on who we recieve for zbo. A player like Richard Jefferson would be more than enough to make up for zbos scoring, and he plays defense ! and truly I dont think its about scoring or winning games, theres simply not enough minutes for griffin to develop and that should be a priority. and zbo leaving would allow us to score less because he wont be givig up so many points to the other teams pf.
Dunleavy should not feel like he has to play zbo 40 minutes a game in order for us to win a game while Griffin plays 20. and you know that dunleavy will bench rookies without thinking twice. He probably will play Dj in front of griffin. but then again, it will only take a few games till someones injured.
Our roster is different from 07-08. Brevin Knight (along with any other pg we had) were offesnsive liabilities. Gordon will score more than cuttino mobley. and our bench was anemic to say the least. dan dickau, smush parker, josh powell etc…
Trading zach and Kaman together would be a nightmare. Who has that much salary they can send back ?
I'll take Richard Jefferson
That will shore up our depth at 2/3
by Newton Pham on May 21, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Zach for Jefferson would be great.
We need another 3 and Jefferson would be a solid option. He’s also got a nice outside shot and can still get his way to the basket.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 21, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But would Milwaukee trade us RJ?
I doubt they would see RJ for Randolph as a good deal. Might have to take on Dan Gadzuric’s contract, too, and give up Thornton and maybe more. And that’s if they have any interest in Randolph.
No AT for RJ
RJ is on the decline of his career, I’d do ZBo straight up but would not include anyone else.
Yeah no way AT is a part of any trade that dosn't get us something amazing in return
That’s definitely not RJ.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 21, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I want to trade AT
I’m not as down on him as many others are, but I can’t see why the Bucks would trade us RJ straight up for ZBo. If they would, we should take it.
ZBo for RJ works
I think it’s the best deal I’ve seen so far—It’s my new favorite.
I’d have to look at the current analysis of RJ, but he seems like he’s a more complete SF than AT. He’s a starter, and you’re not getting back scrubs, just dumping Zbo to get him off the roster.
It makes sense for Milwaukee, and it’s a nice piece of timing. They aren’t going to sign Villanueva, it seems. And they really don’t have any PF, certainly nobody who can do what Zbo does. They have two young SFs sitting behind Jefferson, LR Mbah-Moute and Joe Alexander. They have the 10th pick in the draft and can get a big man, but there’s nobody available who will fit like Zbo. They have centers in Bogut and Gadzuric. If they have Zbo they can get a better PG with the 10th pick than any of the available bigs.
So there’s a good deal, that makes a lot of sense for the other team.
Raises the question: do the Clippers think they’re a better team if they keep Zbo?
Seems to put some extra pressure on Kaman, and it puts Griffin on an accelerated clock—he needs to be able to do the job right away. Kaman-Camby-DJordan-Griffin-Jefferson-Thornton. With Skinner and Novak perhaps.
Interesting.
by citizen zhiv on May 21, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd be in for that
This would seriously put is in playoff contention.
What happens if the Clips doesn't draft Griffin?
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
I'll burn down the new practice facility.
It won’t happen…Griffin is the choice. Especially since the Clipper personnel has gone on the media circuit talking about Griffin as the selection.
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