Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

Are the Clippers Going to Trade the Pick?

There continue to be rumors that the Clippers are going to trade the first draft pick.  The latest rumor appeared on DraftExpress and then was picked up by SI and probably others (hat tip to citizen DocD):

NBA sources continue to indicate that the Los Angeles Clippers are entertaining offers for the #1 pick. Despite their initial comments made on draft night about having already decided to pick Blake Griffin, they are keeping all their options open for now. "From what I understand, they didn’t want to sound uncertain on draft night, since that’s a typical Clippers reaction. This is a very important time for them in terms of season ticket renewals, which is why they had that kneejerk reaction."

Huh.  There are several issues I have with this reasoning.  For one thing, it's inaccurate.  The Clippers were in fact quite non-committal on draft night, with Andy Roeser playing coy about the pick for the media gathered on the post-draft conference call.  Mike Dunleavy Sr. did tell Lisa Dillman of the LA Times that it was 'Definitely Griffin' that night.  But on the whole, the logic that the decisiveness was an act, a 'kneejerk reaction' to counter perceptions of how they traditionally behave, is some pretty tortured logic, which doesn't even have it's facts straight.  It was the next day, at Neil Olshey's press conference, when they put on the 'decisive act' (if you want to believe it's an act).

So, are they 'keeping all their options open'?  Well, I have a question.  What exactly would closing off options look like at this point?  And why would they do it?  They can't actually draft Griffin until, you know, the draft.  And until they've drafted him, I suppose their options are open, aren't they?

But contrary to popular belief, the Clippers are not stupid.  The whole 'this is a very important time for them in terms of season ticket renewals' thing implies that some other time is NOT an important time for season ticket renewals.  If you think about the gist of the statement on the whole, it's just silly.  "Gee, our intent is to run the franchise straight into the ground, but we don't want to do it while it would negatively impact ticket sales."  I.E. that's exactly what we're going to do as soon as every single ticket is sold.  Lucky for us, there's no chance of that.   So go figure - the desire to sell tickets is making an NBA team behave in it's best interests.  What a shock.

Rest assured, the Clippers would have to be completely blown away by any trade offer for this pick.  It's worth noting that in at least 40 years, I can only think of one first overall pick who was traded before he played for the team that owned the pick:  the Magic traded Chris Webber to the Warriors in 1993.  That's it.  It doesn't happen, partly because the mythology associated with the first overall pick means that teams know that their fan base would openly revolt.  ([Note by Steve Perrin, 05/27/09 9:17 AM PDT ] Chip, one of the editors at the Grizzlies blog 3 Shades of Blue, reminded me of the Celtics-Warriors trade involving first pick Joe Barry Carroll.  Still, we're going back to 1980 for that one, so I think the general conclusion that it's a rarity remains valid.)

That Webber trade involved the number three pick in the same draft (Penny Hardaway), and THREE future, unprotected first round picks.  The equivalent trade in this draft (given that Penny Hardaway is to Ricky Rubio as Chris Webber is to Blake Griffin) would be Memphis sending unprotected first round picks in 2012, 2014 and 2016 to the Clippers for the right to trade places.  Think the Grizzlies are going to do that?  Of course not.  But you'd take it if they did, wouldn't you?  So, sure, the options are open.

What's interesting about the way that SI chose to present this particular rumor is that the bulk of the DraftExpress post is actually talking about the issues that Memphis will apparently face if they decide to draft Ricky Rubio.  Whether it is just posturing or not, Rubio's agent has apparently let it be known that his client does NOT want to play in Tennessee.  Now, agent Dan Fegan has tried this ploy before, trying to keep Yi Jianlin out of backwater Milwaukee in 2005 2007 - and it didn't work then.  But Rubio would seem to have a LOT more leverage than Yi.  The buyout on his Spanish contract is reportedly $6M, so that's a lot of coin for the privilege of going somewhere you don't want to go.  Moreover, staying in Europe - for his entire career if necessary - is a perfectly viable option for Rubio.  National team backcourtmate J.C. Navarro played one season for the Grizz before deciding he preferred Barcelona to Memphis.  And supposedly both Pau Gasol and Navarro have given Rubio less than glowing reports.  Add in the fact that the Grizzlies have been calling O.J. Mayo their 'point guard of the future' and that Mayo tends to need the ball in his hands even at the two, and you begin to see why Rubio and Fegan are less than enthused about the prospect of going to Memphis. 

From an article in the Memphis Commercial Appeal, here's the line that pricked my interest:  "Dan Fegan, Rubio's agent, wants Rubio in Los Angeles, where the Clippers hold the first overall pick."  Well, looky there. 

Now, I'm not entirely sure why Fegan necessarily wants Rubio in LA.  It's a big market, obviously.  But the DraftExpress article goes on to say that doesn't really matter: "The size of the market of the team that drafts him is apparently irrelevant, since his appeal will be on a global scale."  If indeed Fegan is targeting LA, it makes you believe that the Clippers have at least spoken to him about a plan to move Baron Davis, since it's clear that Fegan wouldn't be working to get Rubio to LA to come off the bench.  But does an LA solution necessarily involve trading the number one pick in this draft?  (We've already been through the 'Chris Webber scenario', in which Memphis would send a bunch of future first rounders for the right to swap picks.)  But if Memphis is really convinced that they could waste the pick on Rubio, that he is willing to stay in Spain, then they may have no choice but to trade the pick.  So what would they want?  Trading with Sacramento (apparently an acceptable destination for Rubio to Fegan) seems logical, although it remains to be seen what the Kings would have to use to sweeten the pot.  Interestingly, the Grizzlies glaring weakness at power forward happens to be a position where the Clippers find themselves with an extra 20/10 guy.  But as logical as it appears on the surface, Zach Randolph's contract and reputation mean that the Clippers would be the ones forced to throw in multiple future first rounders in order to get such a deal done. 

One last historical observation:  while Chris Webber is the only first overall pick I can think of to have been traded, there are several recent examples of second picks beign traded, three from Clippers history alone.  In 1995 the Clippers traded the second overall pick (Antonio McDyess) and former first rounder Randy Woods for the 15th pick (Brent Barry) and Rodney Rogers.  In 2001, they traded the second pick (Tyson Chandler) and Brian Skinner for Elton Brand.  In 2005 2004 it was the second pick (Emeka Okafor) for the fourth pick (Shaun Livingston) and a second rounder (Lionel Chalmers) (the Bobcats also agreed to take Peja Drobnjak in the expansion draft, at the time an important step in clearing cap space to make a run at Kobe Bryant).  So the Clippers themselves have lots of history with trading the second overall pick, and are essentially one for three in those transactions. 

So, what are the odds the Clippers are going to trade the number 1 pick?  Very slim.  What are the odds the Clippers will somehow end up with the number 2 pick as well?  Slimmer still.

Comment 24 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

plus if the clips trade the #1 pick.

I am pulling asking for my money back for my ticket renewals. so they have that incentive to stay put with griffin. :)

by STUCK IN LA on May 25, 2009 5:07 PM PDT reply actions  

I am pulling money toi

If the clippers the number 1 pick. I don’t see a trade happening

by Qlippers on May 25, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can seem them listening to offers but why would multiple guys from the organization (Andy, Dun, etc) make it clear they were taking Blake only to not pick him or trade

I really solid deal would have to come around to make it worth a trade. People are saying Westbrook or Green and the third pick for Griffin. It might just be me but that sounds like a terrible trade. Just be thankful we lucked out and landed the number one pick. Select the the consensus pick everyone wanted until the Clippers received dibs on him.

by dulciusEXasperis on May 25, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Why would the Clippers want Green instead of Griffin?

Green and Thornton as your starting tandem? Ack. That makes little sense. At least Green and Durant fit as a duo now.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good analysis

Hope you’ve been having a good MemDayWeekend, SP. Good time to explore the Core Philosophy as far as the Clips are concerned: there’s no rush on any of this.

But still. Our friend KA has been busy, posting some good info on Griffin while also doing his patented breakdowns on the Orlando Magic and the playoffs.

Isn’t the whole point of your analysis, however, that the odds of the Clips trading Griffin are very slim, but the possibility of the Clips making a trade for Rubio are actually much greater? rather than “slimmer still”? Not that it will happen, but it does make more sense, for both teams.

As knowledgable Clipper fans we’re forced to endure a blitz of “it’s the Clippers” disrespect right now, which is compounded by our own self-doubts and trepidation. But the fact, buoyed by your analysis of #1 pick movement, is that the Clippers are in a very solid position.

Memphis, by contrast, is a much more desperate team. As is Sacramento. The other teams at the bottom of the draft simply don’t have the same type of roster strength that the Clippers possess. This is what happens when you have catastrophic injuries two years in a row.

Memphis is a mess. They gave away Pao Gasol. The deal is starting to mature in some good ways for them, and Marc Gasol has turned out to be a nice piece of it. He’s the reason why the Grizz shouldn’t have any interest in Kaman. The Grizz aren’t sure that Mike Conley is an elite PG, and now Rubio is questioning if he wants to play for this sad sack team. Doesn’t that sound more “Clipperish” than the Clippers themselves? Gay and Mayo seem like a solid core, but they need a quality PF badly.

It’s a good point, bringing up Sacramento, which has both Hawes and Thompson. If Sacramento wants Rubio badly enough (after spending money on Udrih, btw), they’ll send one of those guys to Memphis. But the Clips might as well make it interesting.

Randolph is a tidy fit at Memphis. If he didn’t have such a bad reputation, and could play some defense, the deal would be a no-brainer. I don’t know that the Clips have to give up future #1 picks, although they can easily send the Minnesota #1 pick that they’re finally going to get. Let’s not forget that Memphis gave Pao Gasol to the Lakers for Kwame Brown. Zach Randolph would balance their attack and make them more respectable, and his deal would come off their books in two years. Of course, they would look like idiots, and it would not be a dynamic, longterm move. But they already look like idiots, after the Pao deal.

I’m not worried about 18 year old Rubio joining the Clips with Baron Davis on a 4 year deal. Give Rubio two years to figure out the NBA, and then figure out how BDavis fits—and my guess is that he will have returned to respectability by that time.

by citizen zhiv on May 25, 2009 9:18 PM PDT reply actions  

You're right...

‘Slimmer still’ isn’t the correct conclusion… but it’s also slim.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 25, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Upon further review...

Here’s what I really meant…

The possibility that the Clippers trade the top pick involves the Clippers dealing with 29 other teams, while the possibility that the Clippers also end up with Rubio involves the Grizzlies trading with the Clippers. So while it’s much more likely that the second pick is getting traded, it remains highly unlikely that he’s getting traded to the Clippers. I just don’t see the Clippers having much to offer Memphis – they’re not taking Z-Bo.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 26, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

It’s worth reiterating the main point of the post: it’s super unlikely that the Clippers will trade the #1 pick.

And yet it’s still out there, mentioned by Chad Ford on a chat right now, that he “wouldn’t be surprised” if the Clips traded the #1 to OKC for the #2, and he says that Griffin is a bad fit on the Clips roster, and their culture is a mess.

I suppose the argument that he’s a bad fit on the roster is based on the presence of Zach Randolph. But in the meantime ZBo is “untradeable” and nobody wants him (you say Memphis won’t take him), so why would such a problematic player stand in the way of the Clips drafting for the future and taking Griffin? And doesn’t the same argument apply to Rubio with Baron Davis?

I like the complexity of the Clips current situation and issues, and the possibilities are clearly sustaining my interest, but at other times I want to shut it all down and wait for the draft.

by citizen zhiv on May 26, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

if zbo didnt have a bad reputation and DID play defense, he would be one of the top power forwards in the league. its not luck that we ended up with him for tim thomas

by andrewexd on May 26, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

great....

here comes the Steve Perrin reverse mojo….

by Newton Pham on May 25, 2009 9:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah just about to say it

It is like Felton 2.0. I think SP may have even used the same words to describe the situation. But really MDsr. is the GM and he said they are going to take Griffin and since he controls who we pick I am pretty confident (not completely thx to the SP reverse mojo that might take effect) that we will pick Griffin.

In Gordon we trust

by bestclipfan on May 25, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

As a business and basketball decision ...

Taking Blake Griffin makes too much sense. After a season with positive expectations went to badly, the Clippers can’t afford to mess this one up. For that reason, I think it’s unlikely that they make a deal without a big name coming to LA. It’s unbelievably frustrating to read these articles that imply the Clippers are actively looking to trade the pick. I realize that we aren’t privy to all info regarding the Clippers dealings, but every public statement they’ve made on the subject has been that they intend to keep the pick.

SP’s assessment is spot on. I can’t help but think that this info being fed to the media from “several NBA Exec’s” is nothing but wishful thinking.

by Eagleace on May 25, 2009 11:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Couple things Steve

Didn’t LA make a run at Kobe in 2004? (Along with Livingston and Okafor being drafted in 2004?) And wasn’t Yi Jianlian drafted in 2007? (Minor errors. Just thought I’d point them out anyway. Certainly doesn’t detract from the overall piece.)

Onto the meat of your point. I don’t really know why LA would want to trade Griffin or the first overall pick.

I pointed this out in my own post yesterday, but, why would LA absolutely need Rubio? If anything, given that LA has had an up & down decade despite the increased spending, and ticket sales, it would seem to me that adding Griffin to a squad with valuable young talent and solid/star veterans would be the ideal thing to do. Why rebuild? With Rubio that’s what you’re doing. Why would Clipper fans tolerate that again? (Other than that has been the norm all along during Sterling’s nearly 30 years of ownership. Man I feel sorry for Ralph Lawler. What a raw deal he’s gotten. Oh well. Thankfully for the rest of us he’s still around though.)

As far as Memphis, I can see them avoiding Rubio because of the problem they have with Conley and Mayo. They keep letting out signs that they think Mayo could be a PG of the future. (I don’t get that.) They’re still committed to Conley publicly, and have let it be known that Michael Heisley (according to Chad Ford) wants Hasheem Thabeet, but the rest of the front office wants Rubio. Huh?

I don’t think OKC really desires Rubio myself. If it was me, I would think they would be totally hot to trot for Marcin Gortat, and James Harden. Both players fit needs, both players fit holes and both players would help the team win right away. No team is 100% built from the beginning. It’s built over time.

Which brings me to Sacramento and Rubio. Of course it would be worth it for both sides to bring Rubio in long term there. But, as Henry Abbott noted today, starting Rubio from day 1 is not a likely possibility. He’s going to have a steep learning curve that is steeper than the Grapevine. No NBA coach would be willing to start Rubio and risk him as a worse player down the road. Being patient with any young PG is imperative here.

Which brings me to my last point. I wish the Kings had gotten the 2nd slot, and Memphis the 3rd slot, but life sucks. I still can’t figure out why the Clippers can’t do the smart thing and take Griffin. I’ve argued time & time again he doesn’t really fit with the Kings because of their talent already there and the needs and what not.

But the Clippers aren’t the Kings. They have shot blockers. They have a fabulous open court PG in Baron Davis. They have an immensely talented wing in Eric Gordon. Like Griffin, Al Thornton was built to play in transistion. Marcus Camby has had some of his best years playing for up tempo teams. My only question with the Clippers, and taking Griffin, is would MDsr finally commit to playing an open court up tempo style that befits the personnel.

Why can’t the Clippers not be the Clippers for once and be the smart competent franchise with a plan? I hate Andy Roeser, DTS, and MDsr for messing up my late May and June with this horsepucky. Just take Griffin like your franchise should!

Again, excellent rundown of things CS.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 12:36 AM PDT reply actions  

Good catches...

Just sloppy on my part. When I’m writing, I sometimes write 200x in hopes of forcing myself to double check, sometimes not. The Yi date is just me forgetting to check at all – I knew I was off and intended to check it, but didn’t. The Livingston/Kobe summer is funny, cuz I did check that one – and then didn’t bother to change it! Thanks again.

As for your analysis, I agree with everything, and I do think the Clippers are going to take Griffin. Any trade would pretty much have to involve a first or second team all nba player, or a recent ROY (or maybe a boatload of unprotected picks).

I actually think Rubio is an OK fit in Memphis basketball wise – depends on what you think of Conley certainly. But Mayo will be a better player if he has the ball LESS, and he’s not a point guard – he’s a classic 2 (IMHO). As for OKC, he’s a terrible fit there. They need some shooters in their backcourt, with Westbrook and Weaver and Livingston and Sefolosha (and Mason and Wilkins) all being relatively promising young perimeter players, and terrible, terrible shooters. So adding Rubio, who’s glaring weakness is outside shooting, makes little sense. I like Harden and Gortat for them – you nailed that.

What do the Kings have to give up to swap picks with the Grizz?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 26, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Anytime Steve

Mistakes happen.

As far as the Kings swapping with the Grizz is a tricky question. I think the Kings MAY end up doing so, but to say that today without further proof is a bit crazy. I’ve already seen it mentioned that the Grizz passing up Rubio is a bit like the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony. (Which makes no sense to me. But, umm, Chris Bosh? Yeah, okay.)

That being said, the Grizzlies can’t seem to make up their mind who they want to be their PG. I was reading 3 shades of Blue, and to sum it up, the battles from Lowery, Conley and Crittenton, then became Conley at the end, and the Grizzlies STILL believe OJ Mayo could be their PG of the future.

So, in a sense, if you’re confused following them, just imagine what it means to be a Grizzlies fan?

As such, I’m confused as to whether the Kings will get Rubio. I hear signs from Chad Ford and Jonathan Givony that they won’t; I hear hyperbole from Memphis supporters that are saying hold your horses a minute. I tell you what would be fun Steve: Just tracking all the hyperbole might be the most interesting keepsake in doing a retrospective.

Here’s what I think is the most likely transaction to happen: Kings swap their 4th, 23rd and 31st overall picks for Memphis’ 2nd, 25th and 35th overall picks. They would also likely swap Marko Jaric for Kenny Thomas (which works just fine under the salary cap if you do it today).

That to me is the ideal scenario here. But, I doubt Memphis would do it for only that.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

No way they trade

Blake Griffin was already the intro on the team’s website the day after they won the lotto. I think people are just assuming that the Clippers are looking to shop the pick and do something because, well, they’re the Clippers.

by turs12 on May 26, 2009 1:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Website...

It’s funny – I’ve heard people reference the web site as proof several times, but Rubio’s pic is there too. To me, the inclusion of Rubio on the splash page is the single most troubling clue in all this, if we’re really trying to read tea leaves. Why have him there?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 26, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Darnell Mayberry of the Oklahoman talked about that today

What I can’t figure out is why the Thunder NEED Griffin. He doesn’t solve a need other than being a local the local’s can talk about.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here is the article

http://newsok.com/thunder-has-shot-at-blake-griffin/article/3372479?custom_click=lead_story_title

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nevermind you already have this up

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 26, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

It won't happen...

From the OKC side, I can say it would be nice to have Blake on the team, but it is not a need. The trades floating around concerning Baron being traded to OKC make no sense. Plus that is not Presti’s style, he prefers building his roster with young and cheap talent. Baron’s contract is too long and expensive for our tastes.

Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D

by daddydai on May 26, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions  

If it happens I am convinced Dunleavy has been secretly working for the Lakers all these years.

by Sam50 on May 26, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Clips Nation!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Letter from Elton Brand to Clip Nation

Recent FanPosts

Small
Anyone have a video of DJ's jumper?
Blake_griffin_cropped_small
It was a good day
Small
Poll: April 27th where do you see the Clippers?
Small
40-26 and getting there
Small
Are we showing Mo enough love?
Blake-griffin-dunk_small
JR Smith. Yay or Nay?
Small
Moving past Feb 7, 2012
Small
New Member-Trade Suggestion
34008_1531733776948_1342861896_3019627_1265958_n_small
Who Else is Going to the 76ers Game?
Small
Farewell Note to King Solomon

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Clipsnation_small Steve Perrin

Editors

Joc_01_small John Raffo

Authors

Blake-griffin-dunk_small Lawler's Law