Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

What a Terrible NBA Free Agent Class

Maybe it's something to do with the summer of 2010 when there will be a plethora of quality free agents.  Maybe it's a hangover from the summer of 2008, when Baron Davis and Elton Brand were the mega-signings, and each promptly had the worst year of their careers.  Maybe Brand and Davis are just making me (and NBA GMs) look differently at free agency.  But perusing the free agent class available this summer, it seems as if there's nothing but damaged goods on the market.

I realize that we haven't gotten to the draft yet so it may be a little early to be talking free agents, but this subject has been percolating in my head for awhile.  Besides, we already know who the Clippers are taking in the draft, and even that hasn't kept us from spending a lot of time on the subject.  Shortly after the June 25th draft, free agency begins on July 1, the other way that teams re-model over the summer.

Rather than being completely subjective, let's try to put some objective terms around the concept of a quality free agent.  How about a guy who has made an all star team, who's under 30 years old?  That's an imperfect metric to be sure, but at least it's a metric.

Baron Davis (two all star game appearances, 29 last summer) met the criteria last July, as did Elton Brand (also two ASGs and 29).  And we know how those signings have worked out so far.  But what about this free agent crop?  Who are the youngish stars who are available?  Here's the list:


There are none.  There are All Stars, lots of them. But they're all over 30, in many cases significantly, and many of them have a lot of baggage beyond their age.

  • Allen Iverson has been in 10 straight ASGs and was the MVP of the entire league in 2000-2001.  But he's almost 34 years old, not to mention that the his last three teams all played significantly better after he stopped playing for them.  I don't know who would touch him at any price at this point.  I hope he likes Greek food.
  • Jason Kidd is a 9 time all star, and still a productive player if not the same guy he was five years ago.  But he turned 36 a couple months ago.  Any team signing him can't really be expecting more than a year of productivity - they can hope, but that's about it.  Even Sam Cassell lost it at that age.
  • Shawn Marion is a four time all star, and a comparatively young 31.  But his productivity has seen a significant decline ever since he stopped playing next to Steve Nash, so there's some reason to believe that he was in the right place at the right time in Phoenix.  How much money, and how many years, would you commit to a 31 year old tweener?
  • Rasheed Wallace is another four time all star - and he'll be 35 before next season starts!  Always a bit of a wild card in the locker room, he might be a great addition to the right roster.  But he's a risk - and did I mention he'll be 35 soon?
  • And I have to admit, I lied when I said there are no all stars under 30 in this free agent class.  There's at least one (and there could be one more that we'll get to in a minute).  Ron Artest made one all star team in 2004 - and he is only 29 (he'll turn 30 two weeks into next season).  So strictly speaking, he meets the criteria.  And oh by the way, he has a little baggage.

There are a few other big name unrestricted free agents this summer, most notably Mike Bibby (31), Andre Miller (33) and Lamar Odom (turning 30 in early November).  But on the heels of the summer of Baron and Elton, I just don't see anyone making 8 figure, long term commitments to these guys.

(Technically speaking, Stephon Marbury, Wally Szczerbiak, Jamaal Magloire and Theo Ratliff all fall into the 'former all star' category as well, but I don't think I have to go into why they won't be getting 'star' type money this summer.)

That's sort of the list of veteran unrestricted free agents - the guys who have made more than the MLE in their lives, and would like to get more than that this summer.  There's an exhaustive list at Depressed Fan.  I'll come back to some of the more intriguing guys who can likely be had for less than the MLE in a moment.

What about the restricted free agents?  Are there any 'stars' in that group?  The short answer is no, not really.  The best players (Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum) from the 2005 draft have already been extended.  That leaves a bit of a mishmash on the RFA list, the biggest names being Marvin Williams, Charlie Villanueva, Nate Robinson, David Lee, Ramon Sessions and Paul Millsap.  It's an intriguing list, in part because so many of the teams involved (Milwaukee, New York, Utah) have serious financial considerations that could keep them from matching an offer sheet.  Villanueva, Lee and Millsap will likely command more than the MLE - it's hard to say with the others.

There are also, as always, a number of players with Early Termination Options in their contracts.  The free agent market gets much more interesting if Kobe Bryant, for instance, suddenly becomes available.  But I think it's fairly safe to say that as a rule, players will NOT be exercising ETO's this summer - not with the economy hurting so badly, not with most NBA teams looking to cut costs, and especially not with the salary cap and the MLE expected to decrease this summer.  There may be a couple of exceptions of course, players who feel that their current value far exceeds their current contract.  Chief among this group is Carlos Boozer, followed by Hedo Turkoglu.  If Boozer decides to wade in, he immediately becomes the 'Elton Brand' of 2009 - the biggest prize in free agency by far.  He's a two time all star who turns 28 in November, so he meets our criteria for a major free agent. 

I'm not Carlos Boozer's agent, but if I were, I'd tell him NOT to opt out.  He's scheduled to make over $12.5M next season.  He's coming off his least productive season, in which he only played 37 games, re-inforcing his reputation as injury-prone.  And the economy figures to be better in 2010 than in 2009.  I suppose that the counter argument is that he's the big fish in this free agent class, where he could be signficantly less big next year compared to the whales.  But don't forget that (a) lots of teams are working to clear cap space and be active next summer and (b) many of the biggest names will no doubt stay with their current teams, either playing out their current deals or signing extensions.  That could mean that instead of three teams who can pay him this summer (Detroit, OKC and Memphis), there could be many more next summer who find themselves with fewer chances to spend their money than they had hoped.  It's not a no-brainer, but I'd stay put if I were Carlos.

Having said all of that, there are some interesting free agents who could very well change teams this summer, and who could be a big help to their new employers in the right situation.  We've already mentioned restricteds Millsap and Villanueva and Lee, all of whom could move on.  There are also two guys playing in the Western Conference Finals who will be unrestricted FA's this summer and who stand to get pretty big raises this summer:  Chris Anderson of Denver and Trevor Ariza of the Lakers.  Denver remains right on the cusp of the luxury tax threshold, and have surely proven by this time that they don't intend to go back over it, so it will be very difficult for them to re-sign Anderson (or RFA Linas Kleisza, for that matter).  Meanwhile, the Lakers are already paying the tax, and Bynum's extension kicks in next year.  They have over $74M committed to 8 players so far, so just filling out their roster will be costly when you figure in the tax.  With it far from certain that the money is buying them a ring this season, it will be interesting to see what they are willing to spend to retain Ariza (or Odom). 

Having said all that, it's actually a pretty interesting free agency class for the Clippers.  They don't have the cap space to be players above the MLE at any rate, so the fact that there are few players worth paying big money to is irrelevant.  Those that might command decent money (Boozer, Millsap, Villanueva, Lee) all play a position where LA already has a glut of talent and salaries and where they're about to add the first overall pick.  Which leaves the team looking for the right pieces, at bargain prices, to fill out the roster.

It remains to be seen, but Donald Sterling 'buy and hold' philosophy could actually serve him well this summer.  The credit crisis put several owners who are highly leveraged into dire financial straits.  New Orleans, Milwaukee, Sacramento and many other teams are really hurting, and there are likely to be more sellers than buyers in the NBA bazaar this summer.  DTS has no debt, and a track record of simply buying up more assets when the economy is down, at least in his real estate business.

So what are the pieces the Clippers need?  Well, a 'glue guy' at small forward and backups at both guard positions would be on my wish list.  We'll no doubt go into the ad nauseum details later in the summer, but let's take a quick look at the small forward situation right now.

The Clippers don't, strictly speaking, have a starting position to offer a free agent (playing time being the other big lure after money).  Barring trades, we may not know who will be starting at the four and five, but we know they're already on the roster.  And clearly Baron Davis will start at the point and Eric Gordon will start at the shooting guard.  Al Thornton was the full time starter last season, so it's a tough sell to tell a free agent that they can have that starting job.  I am however coming around to the viewpoint that Thornton would be best utilized coming off the bench for this team, with a Battier-esque glue guy starting instead.  Thornton is a scorer, and he doesn't do much else to help the team.  But it's easy to imagine a Clippers roster next season in which, if Al were the starting small forward, he'd actually be the FIFTH option on offense.  That's a bad idea.  Better to have a glue guy playing perimeter defense and doing the little things for the first unit, letting Al carry the scoring load for the second unit.

And as it happens, there are some interesting candidates who fit that profile.  Ariza is probably my favorite.  He plays defense, he makes threes, he works hard, he's athletic.  Could he be coaxed to move across the hall?  What about Jamario Moon (an RFA)?  Or what about Quintin Ross?

Finally, there's Josh Childress.  It's far from clear that he could be had for the MLE, but by the same token it seems unlikely that anyone is going to pay much more for him, with the possible exception of the Hawks (he's still an RFA, despite his year abroad).  After a riot broke out at a Greek championship series game between Olympiakos and Panathaniakos, JChill sounded a little less chill about his current situation, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's ready to come back.  He'd be a great fit for the Clippers.

Comment 52 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Love the Jamario Moon suggestion

I think he’d be an excellent fit. According to ESPN, in the 2007-2008 season he led all small forwards in overall rebound rate and defensive rebound rate. Al Thornton’s rebounding rate this year? One of the worst in the entire league among small forwards.

Even if Jamario Moon isn’t an elite defender, his size and athleticism will go a long way. It’s just not a good strategy to continue to trot out 6’2 Fred Jones and ask him to cover guys who have 6 inches on him.

I know that Moon would become an instant fan favorite if the Clippers could land him. Most successful teams have that role filled with an athletic energy guy. Think Denver and Chris Andersen, Orlando and Mikeal Pietrus, or the Lakers and Trevor Ariza. Who knows? Maybe Moon could be that guy for the Clippers.

by D.J. Foster on May 27, 2009 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Enjoyed your post very much

I’m an Ariza fan. Also wondering about Sessions (he’s a little small, but he can pass the rock).

by Jax on May 27, 2009 1:25 PM PDT reply actions  

hilarious...i haven't read the entire post yet...

still cracking up at that blank bullet point!

Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.

by Lawler's Law on May 27, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions  

no mention of keeping our own fa's

novak and jones i think are both good pieces for backup sg and sf. I also like trying to get ariza then moon approach.

by cantthinkofagoodname on May 27, 2009 1:50 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm all for bringing Q. Ross back

He was the 5th Beatle for the Clippers playoff run and performed admirably. He had a nice year for Memphis, and may not want to come back at all. But at least there is familiarity.

I agree with moving Thornton to the bench. Almost a no-brainer. He had the worst +/- of any full time starter in the NBA (though NO Clipper had a positive score). Bring Randolph off the bench, too. The starting five should be composed of guys that can pass, move w/out the ball, and play team defense.

Otherwise, DO NOTHING (speaking of which, SI’s Clippers page has your DO NOTHING story at the top).

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 27, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions  

3 guys that are pretty intriguing in a Clippers uni

Marvin Williams, Josh Childress and Trevor Ariza. Childress in many ways I would think be the most valuable of the 3 because he doesn’t really want to be in Atlanta and the Hawks would having similar problems they had when Childress was there.

Josh Childress and Blake Griffin are 2 additions that could make the Clippers a very dangerous franchise if they were able to move Zach Randolph for even spare parts.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Comments

Great post. Good initial criteria: all-stars under 30.

I was a bit disappointed by the list of SF FAs. I thought there would be more. Are there? And yes, as ctoagn says, no mention of Novak and Fred Jones.

I’m not feeling the idea of bringing QRoss back. Can’t hear Milph mention again how he was a 20 ppg scorer in college, when he has so many limitations on offense. And I think he’s better as an SG than an SF, just to quibble. The additional size and strength is what makes Ariza seem like such a prize.

But one thing that this covers very clearly is the fact that the primary need for the Clips is that glue guy/defender SF.

I’m not sure if it’s exactly right to say that AThornton would be the 5th option, but it’s hard to argue against that if you’re talking about Kaman-Randolph-Gordon-BDavis, although Kaman would end up scoring fewer points than Thornton, and it would be good if BDavis took fewer shots and got more assists, and scored at about the same rate as Thornton. Both BDavis and Thornton need major improvement in shot selection next year. And if Griffin starts—which would be great news—it’s hard to say that he would be a primary option, as most of his scoring would come on hustle and strength plays, kind of like old school FElton—at least that’s what I would expect. He doesn’t have the polished 15 foot shot or the back-to-the-basket moves yet, but he’s working hard on them.

The rebounding stat with Moon is an interesting factor, especially when you look at the woeful rebounding of Thornton, Gordon, and BDavis. One thing I’m not sure that I get is the difference between the undersized PF rebounder and hustle player, and the glue guy SF defender rebounder that we’re talking about. I know that there’s a fairly clear distinction, but I don’t see it. A tweener like Marion, who was most effective as a PF playing in an super-uptempo offense, just makes it harder to pin down. Couldn’t Milsap play SF? It’s the same question Dunleavy is asking, when he’s wondering if the Clips can start Kaman/Camby-Randolph-Griffin-Gordon-BDavis, and bring Al Thornton off the bench. I would just as soon bring Randolph off the bench, and get the improved defense up front, but you get the point.

I guess what I need is a rundown of all the SFs. And look at what Orlando is doing because they have two of these guys—they’re hurting and beating a team that has the state-of-the-art, next evolutionary stage player at the position. Turkolu is a wonderful basketball player, certainly the Turkish Larry Bird if not one of the closer general facsimilies of the real thing. And that crazy, insane Rashard Lewis contract sure went ca-ching when he turned around and made virtually the exact same 3 pt fallaway that Lebron just hit. Pretty amazing that that deals looks good right now—and let’s not forget that they’re missing Jameer Nelson.

by citizen zhiv on May 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions  

fifth option...

As long as Marcus Camby isn’t starting (which is of course a valid option), I really see Thornton as the fifth option. Would he score more than Kaman or Griffin? Only if he took a lot more shots. (By the way, you’re seriously undervaluing Griffin’s offense – the guy averaged 23 points per game and shot 65% against constant triple teams.) You can make a case that he should get more shots than Baron, but I also think that the team as a whole benefits from an offensive-minded Baron – even if he’s passing at the end of the play instead of shooting, the point is that he needs to be making plays. So that’s why I call Thornton the fifth option. It may be a little bit of hyperbole, but the point remains that if his main value is as a scorer, and that unit needs other stuff.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 27, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I said it once, I'll say it again

I dont bite on moving Al Thornton. Given that price value, how do you complain? You guys complain about a guy making around 1 or 2 mils a year who scores 17 a game, yet you see some people who don’t complain about a 17 mil guy scoring 17 per game. Sure the difference is rebounds, but we need to give Thornton time.

Truth is, Thornton can be a great perimeter defender. Signs came when Thornton was guarding Lebron. Im not saying he did the best of job, but I’m sure Thornton can do well.

Of course, I don’t object to the idea of signing Shawn Marion. (= Baron, Marion, Gordon, Blake. Thats sounds like a fast pace offense right there. (We can easily throw Al Thornton into that mix as well.)

by JackduhSun on May 27, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions  

He did ok vs. LeBron

but he doesn’t seem to get the team defense concept, or the team offense conecpt for that matter.

I like Al. He is a good player, and may be a great scorer. But he regressed last year when he should have been improving.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 27, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glue guy option...

I know he’s not a FA, but in one of today’s chats on Hoopsworld, the scenario of Kaman for Tayshaun Price was floated approvingly.

They have the same salary. Prince either grew up and/or lives his off-season in LA (even better, Kaman goes back to his home state, and Detroit needs a big). He exudes the same class, dignity and leadership that Billups brought to Denver. And how could Thornton argue about backing up an Olympian? I’d do that trade in a second.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on May 27, 2009 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Brilliant!

Perfect move for both teams. The P’s need help up front, and the Clips need a guy exactly like Prince.

I hope there is something to that. Plus Kaman is a Michigan guy.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 27, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see how this helps the Clips...

You get rid of Kaman and what is going to happen in 2 years? Jordan as your starting center? Camby will be gone, and ZBo will be in his contract year again (although he doesn’t play center anyway). This leaves a huge whole at the center position. The Clips are then back to square one with no chance of making the playoffs….still. This trade does not improve the team in the long term. The guy that needs to go is Z-bo, not Kaman.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 28, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Clips would have to hope that DJ is ready for 2010

Having a useful big man is the key, not necessarily a center. I think Griffin should take care of that.

I would really love a Kaman from Prince trade.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 28, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not 100% convinced that Camby is gone after this year.

Dunleavy clearly loves him and Camby has said more than once how he really likes LA and he gets the opp to tutor two promising prospects in Griffin and DJ.

We’re all assuming that Camby will want to go to a contender, which is a totally reasonable consideration. But I think it’s also a legit scenario that he could stay.

If you’re Dunleavy and you have already had that conversation with Camby and Camby says he wants to stay, then trading Kaman makes perfect sense. Just a thought.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on May 28, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he'll go where the money is

It will be his last contract, so if he can get the mid-level or more somewhere, that is where he will head. If it’s to a contender, all the better for him, but I can see him staying or signing with a young, budding team in need of a center. Atlanta perhaps. OKC.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 28, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

We seem to forget

how old Camby is…and that last season he was relatively healthy compared to most seasons. I don’t want to bank the future of the center position on an aging center who has little offensive skills and little man to man defensive skills as well.
Regardless, he will want $$ and a legit chance to win a championship after his contract is up. If the Clippers don’t end up trading him next year, I don’t see how he resigns with the Clips.

Kaman, when healthy is by far better than Camby on both ends of the floor. I would love to see a front line of Kaman and Griffin with DJ backing them up. Three athletic young guys patrolling the paint. Camby just doesnt fit I think.

I still don’t get why every one wants to trade Kaman so badly. Talented legitimate 7 footers don’t grow on trees. And for those that suggest Griffin can play the center position, lets wait and see how tall he really is before we start moving him around. If he turns out to be only 6’9" (which is most likely the scenario), then he won’t be able to play center on most nights in the NBA.

If you do end up trading Kaman, I guarantee there will be a gaping whole at the center position for years to come. DJ is young, but his potential will never even come close to Kaman 2.0.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 28, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Griffin won't work as an everyday center

A few things: I don’t agree that Kaman is much better than Camby at anything. Both are good, only Camby is less spacey.

It’s hard to predict what Camby will do when his contract is up. But I fail to see why having a 7-footer is absoutely necessary. Orlando and Denver don’t really have traditional centers. Houston actually played better without their 7-footer. More important than a center is having a good big man, including a PF.

Let’s say Kaman is traded for a good wing. Camby starts at the 5 this year. He either re-signs (not out of the question) or walks. The Clippers are still left with Griffin, Randolph and Jordan, who has hopefully improved under Camby’s wing by then.

I’m all for keeping Camby and doing nothing, but I would love to have a guy like Prince. Who knows, maybe the Pistons would take Camby for Tayshaun. They are aggressively trying to clear cap-space.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 28, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am with you

on the do nothing stance. I guess I just have an eye towards the future of this team (2 to 4 years down the road), and the thought of DJ starting makes me cringe.
The guy that really needs to go is actually Z-bo, but as we all know that will be a little more difficult than trading Camby or Kaman.
One thing I don’t understand is you say that Denver and Orlando don’t have traditional centers. I would consider Dwight Howard to be a prototypical center, wouldn’t you? And Nene is closer to a traditional center than not, would you agree? I think if you have a decent center (as Dwight Howard is) and things run through him (as they have been) it creates tons of mismatches on the floor and makes the other team play your style and adapt to you, not the other way around. This is why having a legitimate 7 foot center is so key. He takes the pressure off of every one else.
The Clippers should be set for a few years at PF with Griffin. Why go and mess that up by trading away a guy who commands double teams as is (when healthy of course). The presence of Kaman on the floor only helps Griffin.
Like you said, I hope they do nothing, or at the very least try to get rid of Z-bo first. Tayshaun Prince is an interesting option, but only for the right price. I think the price of Kaman is too high.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 28, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ooops

I meant to say Denver and Orlando don’t have 7-footers. Howard is surely a center. Nene seems to be doing a nice job there. I meant to say 7-footers.

I don’t see Kaman as being in their league. As much as he has improved, he still has a long way to go. I think he is iffy.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 28, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah...

that makes more sense. Although, both are listed at 6’-11", so they are technically not 7 footers, but they are as close as you can get without actually being one.
Kaman isn’t in Dwight Howard’s league, but when healthy, I think overall he is better than Nene. Comparable defensive ability with Kaman having many more offensive tools. Nene does have a mean streak in him, which incidentally is ideal for playoff basketball.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 28, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nene, until this season,

was an injury prone bust and considered one of the worst contracts in the league. He was the definition of unfulfilled potential, and the Nuggets would have gladly given him to us rather than Camby if we would have taken on his contract. That should be a cautionary tale for those who want to trade Kaman away.

I predict that if Kaman is traded that in the next couple years, we will trade for or sign another center with just as many questions as Kaman to platoon with DJ much as we’re eager to find AT some help now. We’re better off letting our roster sort itself out for now unless someone blows us away with a great offer.

by ClipCat on May 29, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

One of the “injuries” was cancer, so that characterization of Nene may not be entirely fair. The difference between Nene and Kaman as I see it is that Kaman, in addition to being injury prone, cannot consistently focus.

by Jax on May 29, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

Thru 6 seasons prior to this one, Nene played in 293 of a possible 492 Nuggets games (60%).

Thru his first 6 seasons, Kaman has played in 385 of 492 Clipper games (78%).

Ignoring games Nene missed because of cancer (66 games), his percentage before this season comes up to 69%.

I’m not sure why we should necessarily ignore the cancer, btw. If the point of past injuries is that they may predict future injuries, what’s more likely to recur? Cancer does have a way of coming back.

Not to mention that one of Nene’s other injuries was a torn ACL, which would generally be considered more of a concern than anything that has happened to Kaman.

Not to mention that prior to this season Nene never had a sustained performance anywhere close to Kaman’s in the first half of 07-08.

I love Nene, and have since his rookie year. And whether or not Kaman can have a Nene-style bounce back year remains to be seen. But by any measure Nene was more injury-prone than Kaman, not to mention that his on court performance was far from consistent. I’d say ClipCat’s comparison is a solid one.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 30, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well . . .

I didn’t intend to suggest that Nene wasn’t injury prone, and maybe the cancer concern remains.

I think that they are both injury prone.

The key difference between the two to me remains Kaman’s inability to focus.

by Jax on May 31, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

A different point of view...

If the Clips want to sign a FA center to replace a departing Kaman, they have cap space next year if Camby doesn’t want to re-sign and even more in two years when Zbo is gone (or re-signed for a lot less). So if your worst case scenario happens “2 to 4 years down the road” (i.e., Kaman is traded, Camby walks next year and we can’t trade Zbo), we’re talking about one season without real depth at the center position. But even that’s not correct, because you’re discounting the possibility of drafting a center in the first round (aka someone more ready than DJ) in 2010 draft, when there will be many more quality bigs than the 2009 draft.

You’re skeptical that DJ can develop, which is certainly a possible scenario. But I’d ask you to consider what Kaman was like in his rookie season. Was he that much better than DJ? That is not my recollection. So perhaps DJ has room to grow as well.

Also, even when Kaman is healthy, he rarely approaches Kaman 2.0. So the do nothing option is also fraught with risks. Far from the safe, bullet proof option.

IMHO, your worst case scenario has options that can be managed while the upside of getting someone like Prince for Kaman goes beyond just stats – you’re giving up a space cadet for someone who is a quiet leader with integrity and who leads by example (which Kaman is incapable of). Something that the Clippers need much more.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on May 28, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good points...

First, what FA centers will be available? I am all for trading Kaman if the price is right. The better question though, is what FA center will want to come to the Clippers? This is the age old question, and the Clippers track record speaks for itself. How quickly the Clipper culture can change will be the deciding factor. The team has a hard enough time keeping it’s own free agents as it is. I am not willing to bank on the “possibility” of some center wanting to come to the Clippers. I have seen too many seasons of Kandi, Drobniak, Wang Zhi Zhi, Skinner, Olden P., Keith Closs, etc to give up on Kaman so soon.

As far as comparing Kaman and DJ, this is a no brainer. Kaman was the MAN in college, leading his team in scoring and rebounding. DJ was …..well, not. Coming out of college, Kaman possessed skills that DJ will never have: touch around the basket, post game, shooting with either hand. DJ is definitely a work in progress with many shortcomings (does he even have a 12’ jump shot?), whereas all Kaman needed/needs refining. I am just not sold on DJ. I see him as being a taller version of Chris Wilcox, a serviceable center, but not even top 10 in the league (Kaman, when healthy, is top 5).

Like I keep saying, 7 footers with Kaman’s ability dont grow on trees. At this moment, I say do nothing. If Kaman doesn’t progress this next year, then yeah, dump him. It’s time to start over. It’s not like his value will get any worse.

And I don’t think anyone sees Kaman as a leader, or ever expected that out of him. True that Tayshaun would bring leadership, but Kaman was never going to be the team “leader” in the first place.

I think bottom line for me is that if they trade away Kaman, there is going to be a huge deficit at the center position for years to come, and I don’t like the thought of that.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 28, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chris Bosh will be available

but unless the Clippers get an expiring contract back in return for Kaman and figure in Camby’s salary coming off the books they won’t have nearly enough room to sign him.

It’s also easy to say that Kaman was the man when he went to Central Michigan. Jordan seemed to hold his own just fine against Kevin Love when A&M played UCLA in the NCAA tourny, which is exactly the type of thing the Clippers should expect him to do now.

by turs12 on May 29, 2009 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

But Bosh is definitely not a center

and not likely to sign with a team that just drafted a player who plays his position with the 1st pick in the draft. Real centers are very tough to come by. Just watch Marcin Gortat cash in on free agency. That’s the kind of player the Clippers could realisticly sign as a free agent. I’d rather keep Kaman.

by ClipCat on May 29, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree....

What you said. :)

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on May 29, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great trade for the Clips

Prince would be the perfect guy. I’m not sure how it makes sense for Detroit, although the back-to-Michigan angle is a good one.

One thing about Prince is that he’s very much a glue guy, he’s not a Paul Pierce, high-scoring SF. I’m not sure what the plan is in Detroit, who they want to build around. Perhaps the good thing for the Clips is that Prince doesn’t have enough offense to build around—maybe they don’t have enough other solid pieces that they can have a glue guy in that spot. But I don’t know. When I first looked at it, and saw the way the contracts matched up, I assumed that Detroit wouldn’t want to trade Prince for somebody like Kaman. It would be nice if that wasn’t true.

by citizen zhiv on May 27, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looking at it

What’s up with Detroit? They seem to have no players left.

Very curious about this. What’s their plan?

They should go after Odom and Ariza, trade Kaman for Prince.

by citizen zhiv on May 27, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was about to go check the Pistons blog on SBN, but it seems like it's one of the few teams not represented on SBN

I can see why though…Need4Sheed and a couple of others have that market cornered…I like that trade…I remember a FSW show with Kaman going back to the Michagan woods and shooting his bow at stuff…he looked more comfortable in those settings than I had ever seen him before…

Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.

by Lawler's Law on May 27, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not true...

Motown String Music… a solid blog, though you are correct that Detroit Bad Boys and Need4Sheed are well-established.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 27, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

you're right....

I must have missed it on the drop down menu of under the basketball blogs…Sorry…

Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.

by Lawler's Law on May 27, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

hell, not a single Ben Gordon mention?

not that he’s a fit for the Clips, just saying. As BG’s publicist I am not pleased. As a Bulls fan maybe I should be.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 27, 2009 9:49 PM PDT reply actions  

after the way he helped you against Boston I think

he may have earned his keep. But the problem with Gordon is we already have a Gordon and he plays the same position.

In Gordon we trust

by bestclipfan on May 27, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

A flat out omission...

The point of the post was to talk about how weak the class is, so Gordon doesn’t help me. But it was a straight omission. If Boozer stays in Utah, Gordon is probably the big prize of the unrestricteds. My bad.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 28, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sign-And-Trade Childress

The Hawks could sign-and-trade Childress and throw in a player or two to make the salaries work in a deal for Chris Kaman. Hawks need a center, so this works out pretty good.

Josh Childress is an awesome “glue-guy” player. He hustles for rebounds and loose balls, takes good shots, and plays great defense.

by Uneek721 on May 28, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions  

I had this thought...

Not sure who else I want from the Hawks roster to make this work. But the could use Kaman.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on May 28, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's not much else good on their roster

Perhaps they want to move Marvin Williams, too, and move Josh Smith to the 3. That would be messy for the Clippers.

I really love the Prince idea. Never even considered it, but it may make sense from Detroit’s standpoint. They seem to like Affalo. They would be left with Stuckey, Hamilton, Affalo, Maxiel and Kaman.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on May 28, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Although I would still favor Prince over Childress. There is just something about Prince that exudes quiet leadership (what I hope Eric Gordon will develop over time) and I don’t get that as much from Childress (perhaps because he bailed to Europe when things got tough). But JC is a quality glue guy.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein

by Another son of Mike Smith on May 28, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions  

I doubt he would be what the Clippers are looking for, but...

Brandon Bass deserves mention as a quality FA that’s probably a shade under Ariza’s level.

by MavinClipsLand on May 28, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Not sure why we should be concerned with Kaman not being available in the future if we trade him for Prince. His health history is spotty and just because he’s under contract does not mean he’ll be able to actually play. When he does play what do you get? For 1/2 a season he was brilliant but for the rest of his career he’s hardly someone I’d be worrying about not having in 2011. Between the health and attention problems, let someone else try to figure it out.

Put me on the Kaman for Prince bandwagon. Removing Thornton from the Clippers starting group will be a net positive.

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on May 29, 2009 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Ariza, Moon, Childress – all would do wonders for this team

Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen

by Phil Gurnee on May 29, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Clips Nation!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Joc_01_small
Stats/Box/Game Log question?
Small
Clippers All Time Leaders in Wins Above (Below) Average
Small
Adjusted Point Differential and Pythagorean Wins
Small
A look at efficiency and point differential
Small
Anyone have a video of DJ's jumper?
Blake_griffin_cropped_small
It was a good day
Small
Poll: April 27th where do you see the Clippers?
Small
40-26 and getting there
Small
Are we showing Mo enough love?
Blake-griffin-dunk_small
JR Smith. Yay or Nay?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Clipsnation_small Steve Perrin

Editors

Joc_01_small John Raffo

Authors

Blake-griffin-dunk_small Lawler's Law