Excuses, Excuses - The Clippers Have Had a Lot of Them the Last Few Seasons
by Steve Perrin on May 30, 2009 3:07 PM PDT
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PrintSince their franchise-best run to the seventh game of the Western Conference semi-finals in 2006, the Clippers have been sliding downhill fast, back to their accustomed depths in the standings. And there has been no shortage of excuses along the way.
Injuries have of course been the first, most frequent and most legitimate excuse. Of course the Clippers are not the only team to suffer injuries, nor are they the only team to use them as a reason for not meeting expectations. Both New Orleans and Boston cited injuries (many to players who were playing, but simply less than 100%) to explain their earlier than last season playoff exits. Of course, their a question of degree here - the Hornets won 49 games, the Celtics 62, and while they were a little disappointing in the playoffs to be sure, it's nothing compared to a 19 win Clipper season.
I've said many times that I felt that 07-08's injuries (to Brand, Livingston and Kaman among others) were more than enough to explain that terrible Clippers' season. As for the 08-09 season, I'm far from convinced. The Clippers were once again among the league leaders in player-games lost to injury (first two seasons ago, second last season), but the number of injuries and the nature of those injuries just doesn't explain a 19 win season. There were clearly many other problems that don't simply go away with the "just way till we're healthy" mantra.
Over the course of the last few seasons, we have heard many other excuses as well. In 06-07, it was the pre-season trip to Moscow, which was still receiving blame as late as January. By the end of last season, it seemed like conditioning was the big culprit. Never mind that in both of these cases the excuse makes little sense - many months into the NBA season, how can a bad training camp still be the problem? It's pretty obvious that the issue is systemic as opposed to circumstantial if it's still impacting you three and four months later. Players didn't report in shape? Well, an 82 game NBA season allows plenty of time to play your way into shape eventually. So it might explain a bad first month, but it can't speak to the rest of the season.
The organization as a whole has had a spotty record of fessing up to the problems of last season. Both Andy Roeser and Neil Olshey in their respective Blake Griffin press conferences, did an OK job of saying "Hey, we stunk last season, and we hope to do better, and getting the first pick helps" without resorting to a bunch of excuses.
Unfortunately, the "no excuses" policy didn't really last. Mike Dunleavy was on ESPN radio with Tirico and Van Pelt last week (Kevin posted the audio and excerpt already), and while it was OK, there was one thing that really jumped out at me. When asked why the team was so disappointing last season, this is what he said:
One of the biggest things for us last year was that we had 13 new players on our team and it wasn't really by design, it was just kinda the way things happened. That's insurmountable as far as trying to get a system in, it's a really tough thing to do. Particularly, it's not like a new coach coming in with 13 guys that's seen them play together, these are 13 guys with 13 different teams and systems, etcetera.
So it was the turnover (which certainly impacts many things, including team chemistry) that undid the team last season. In fact, it was 'insurmountable.'
But here's the thing. He's also the GM, so he's the one who turned over the roster. Now, he tries to pre-empt that somewhat by saying it 'wasn't really by design', but honestly, other than Brand pulling the rug out from under him, what was he trying to do differently? They made little or no effort to keep Maggette. After most of the roster had already turned over, they traded Brevin Knight for Jason Hart. They made no effort to retain Josh Powell or NIck Fazekas. They even waived Paul Davis in January, one of the only holdovers. And it goes without saying that less than a month into the season, while the roster featured five returning players, they traded two of them away for Zach Randolph.
Now, I'm not saying that any of these moves were necessarily wrong (with the exception of Knight for Hart trade, which I trashed at the time, but let's face facts this is a minor transaction in the big picture). It would clearly be disingenuous of me to suggest that Josh Powell or Nick Fazekas would have made a difference for the 08-09 Clippers. But isn't it even more disingenuous of MDsr to say that integrating 13 guys on a new team is 'insurmountable' without taking responsibility as the guy who brought in those 13 guys? And I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that the Brand situation was unfortunate and perhaps unavoidable - fine, he brought in 12 new guys.
It's one thing when obstacles are insurmountable. It's quite another when you put those obstacles there in the first place.
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Succint and to the point, this just highlights one of the reasons not to like
Dunleavy, let alone retain him.
Good points!
They’ve been really good at coming up with different excuses (with the underlying excuse always being injuries), so what do they come up with for next season?
It just makes me sick to think that we probably won’t be much better than this season. Same coach, same team, and with the addition of Blake, we’ll probably win 25.
UGHHHHH
>:(
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
Didn't really think about that but yeah, all these roster changes are becuase GM Dun pulled the trigger on each of them.
Like you mentioned Steve the moves weren’t necessarily bad but it seems a bit hypocritical to say adding all the new faces was one of the biggest downfalls and was not “by design” yet he made every single decision. Yet at the same time what was he supposed to do? You could argue he tried to make the best out of the situation he was in. So I suppose my beef is just with his excuse. God forbid he just says I tried to bring in players I thought would make us a better team and on paper it looked promising; things just didn’t work out. Forget him remaining as a coach after 2 abysmal seasons, forget all the injuries and new faces, the thing that bothers me the most is not once has he even hinted he dropped the ball on this season.
by dulciusEXasperis on May 30, 2009 3:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
When someone asks you "why do you stink?", what do you say?
You’ve got to say something, and you’re not going to say, “Well, I really blew it, I sucked at my job,” because that will leave you open to criticism from your employers. You’re also not going to say, “The players suck. They all just suck.” You can’t because you can’t throw them under the bus like that and, as you pointed out SP, you hired them.
But you gotta say something, so you blame injuries or make some other lame excuses… but you do that not because you don’t know the truth but because you can’t really tell the truth. So what you do is, you make stupid, shallow remarks about injuries and new personnel and you hope the situation gets better. That’s not to excuse Mike Dunleavy or his team’s performance, but what do you expect him to say?
“It’s my fault, and I’d now like to resign from my position as the ineffectual, intractable, and useless coach/GM of the Clippers. Furthermore, I’d like to decline my salary based on the fact that I’ve been robbing the Clippers blind for the past several years during my tenure as coach.”
best reply
that i have ever heard. CAn you please add in shaving tjhe other sides of his bald spots? (:
A moderately dishonest position
And I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that the Brand situation was unfortunate and perhaps unavoidable – fine, he brought in 12 new guys.
Please.
Given his druthers, it seems like Baron is the only significant addition. It was the loss of Brand that caused the turnover and hence turmoil.
Assuming Brand is re-signed, then what…Camby, Randolph, and Collins aren’t added, Gordon isn’t thrust into the starting role so early, what else?
Turnover is probably cut in at least half, it wasn’t just a matter of literally replacing Brand. And when you look at the intended rotation, its probably even a much bigger percentage. Losing Brand caused Dunleavy to replace two starters and his first big off the bench.
So his other option is to sit tight with his obviously incomplete team. I think the criticism would have been much more fair and much louder if he stopped making calls once Brand left.
At least then his excuse would have been good? “Well Elton Brand left. He was pretty important to us, but I didn’t want to risk turnover and having to work all these guys into a new system so I sat tight. I started Thornton at PF even though everyone knew going in that it wouldn’t work. I slid Gordon to the three because he needs to be on the court and started Brevin and Baron in the back. Now a lot of people would say, wow, as a GM you probably should have made some moves to get some size and scoring punch. Not me. I know Clippers fans would rather do nothing then give me the excuse that I tried to make moves to replace Elton’s production.”
It seems much stronger to attack the premise that bringing in new players causes problems or to go after the individual moves themselves than to go after him in the one area where his hand really was forced.
"So what are the odds that the Clippers can compete next season given their limited flexibility? Slim and none."
Agree....
The Brand defection had a domino effect that in turn netted at least 3 new players, and not role players, but starters or first off the bench (Camby, Z-Bo and Collins). Not only that, does the Maggette scenario play out the exact same way if EB resigns with the Clippers? It probably does, but who knows. Essentially, Brand was the catalyst to the major parts of the roster having to be replaced.
Do or do not. There is no try.
The fact that MDSr
the GM couldn’t retain the team’s critical free agent, and then tries to use that failure as an excuse for his failure to perform this past year, is perhaps the poster child for the man they call MDSr.
It's funny that
you mention MDsr as the GM, because Falk used the fact that MDsr was NOT the GM (officially) to turn the tables on the Clippers and run after MDsr and FElton had reached an agreement on opting out then resigning for less money. Didn’t Falk say that the coach cannot negotiate with a player, hence there was no deal? I wonder if MDsr had been given the GM title before FElton had opted out if things would have turned out the same?
Do or do not. There is no try.
As I recall
Falk’s position was that the GM, coach, whomever, shouldn’t be negotiating with the player behind the back of the player’s agent and that the agent will ultimately get involved anyway. I understood he pointed out what is generally known in NBA circles that MDSr is really the GM to take away MDSr’s potential argument that he was just a coach talking to his player (and maybe not quite so clearly subject to these rules).
I wish this article had been entitled "Explanations vs. Excuses"
The word “excuses” has an inherent bias to it – to me the subtext of that word reads as “explanations without substance”. Perhaps that was Steve’s intention. Fair enough.
I also question the comment “And I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that the Brand situation was unfortunate and perhaps unavoidable – fine, he brought in 12 new guys.”, but not for the same reason that John R. mentions. That statement implies that all NBA players are created equally. We all know that is not true. If you’re willing to say that the Brand situation shouldn’t automatically be attributed to Dunleavy, that doesn’t account for a mere one-thirteenth of the Clips deficiencies this past season. Players get paid different amounts of money for a reason. As a very rough proxy for a player’s value, I’d take Brand’s 2008-09 salary (or Randolph’s, since he was the eventual replacement) and divide it by the total of the other twelve new salaries – that percentage is a heck of a lot closer to the actual value contribution lost to the Clips when Brand jumped ship – not one-thirteenth.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on May 30, 2009 6:42 PM PDT reply actions
Your points are valid....
I’m not saying that there’s absolutely no truth to the position that the roster turnover was a problem for the team. Nor am I saying that any individual move was completely wrong-headed (with the exception of the Knight-Hart trade, which as I’ve said I view as ill-advised but minor).
I’m just saying there’s no responsibility in the statement that the changes were insurmountable. If the loss of Brand set off an inevitable chain reaction that made the entire season a complete loss, then why were we told that Baron and Camby were a more than adequate package to replace Brand and Maggette?
Short of resigning, which NBA coaches and GMs simply don’t do, I still feel like you can take some responsibility.
“We were terrible, for lots of reasons. I have to take some of that responsibility as the coach and GM, but we’re going to try to learn from our mistakes and come back stronger next season. One of those mistakes was to turn over almost the entire roster, which we did in an attempt to salvage the season after losing Elton Brand, but which in retrospect presented an insurmountable problem for team chemistry and for installing a cohesive system. That’s one reason I don’t intend to make a lot of changes this summer. I want to give this group and our draft pick a chance to play together.”
I humbly submit that he could have answered the question while taking some responsibility and looking forward to how he will improve.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Good points all
The fact that MDSr is completely incapable of publicly admitting any mistake is probably internal within him. He rationalizes everything, and he always has. Which is one of the main reasons why he’s not able to improve this or any other team. Ever.
Remember, this is a guy who was quite comfortable operating using Elgin Baylor as a figurehead GM for years. When did we first find out about it? When David Falk (finally) called him on it.
There doesn’t seem to be any need to rehash my well-documented points re MDSr here. I would briefly mention, however, that this was his team, and EB ultimately decided to leave because he didn’t like it here. This is MDSr’s team. Period. Therefore, EB jumping ship is on MDSr too.
I would also mention something that hasn’t been discussed enough in my view. MDSr signed Baron Davis, knowing that Baron is not a technical half-court game oriented pg who would need to run. MDSr promised us all, publicly, that he’d run with BD. Clearly, MDSr is uttely incapable of melding BD into his offense. The guy is getting paid $5 M a year. He should know himself well enough to know whether he realistically could integrate someone like BD into the team.
What makes anyone think MDSr can be successful, really successful, building this team? The fact that he cannot do so does not bode well for the future, so long as he remains at the helm.
Ok the last pint was not stated very well
What I meant to say was that given MDSr’s track record, and his inability of acknowledging any problem, the future would not seem to bode well.
BD signing can't be blamed on him
it was a desperate measure to get Brand.
Not sure you're serious, but in the event you are . . .
You obviously shouldn’t sign a starting pg to a $65M 5-year contract out of desperation to sign someone else, particularly if the pg’s style of play is anathema to the coach’s.
As Colin Powell once said about Iraq, MDSr owns the BD deal.
I'm also a big believer in taking accountability...
And I certainly agree that your suggested quote is more balanced and does a much better job of articulating the myriad of interconnected issues that befell the team… and at the same time it acknowledges that Dunleavy played a role in it. No question about it.
Would I have felt better as a fan if he said that? Absolutely. Do I think that all of the fans on this site would have felt better? I seriously doubt it.
Leaders get criticized. That’s just a inevitability. Sometimes it’s fair and sometimes it’s not. Heck, even Stan Van Gundy got reamed recently, not only by the fans but by his own star player… and he’s going to the finals. So I don’t believe that any degree of explanation – no matter how legit – would have appeased certain fans.
Although to your point, it is interesting to note that in some recent games Stan has effectively said a few times “I screwed up some last minute play calls” and I’ve thought to myself… “that was ballsy for saying that.” Perhaps you’re looking for more of that, and you might be right.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on May 30, 2009 8:26 PM PDT reply actions
I think...
it’s a trait of a good leader.. Like Kenny Smith says in this video about Sam Cassell as that type of leader, that says, “if we lose, point the finger at me, I don’t care.. but if we win, I’ll take that too.”
That’s the type of player (or coach) that this team needs, and I’m not so sure they have someone like that.
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on May 30, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Celtics,10 changes= 66 wins...Clippers,13 changes =19 wins
I wish somebody would ask Dunleavy if 3 additional player changes calculates to 47 more losses. The Celtic’s roster a season before their championship season had 10 different players on it.
2006-2007 roster: Paul Pierce Al Jefferson Wally Szczerbiak Delonte West Ryan Gomes Tony Allen Gerald Green Rajon Rondo Allan Ray Sebastian Telfair Kevinn Pinkney Kendrick Perkins Leon Powe Brian Scalabrine Theo Ratliff Michael Olowokandi
2007-2008 roster: Paul Pierce Kevin Garnett Ray Allen Rajon Rondo Leon Powe Sam Cassell Eddie House James Posey Kendrick Perkins Tony Allen Glen Davis PJ Brown Gabe Pruitt Brian Scalabrine Scott Pollard
Yes, the Celtics obviously got two great players in Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. But some of the Clipper offseason pickups weren’t exactly chopped liver. I just wished Dunleavy, along with the entire organization, would accept some responsibility for a 19 win season and not just put it on the “roster turnover”. Other teams have had big roster changes over two season and been very successful…one, the Celtics, even turning into champions.
by benoit benjamin on May 31, 2009 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
Clippers lack of leadership
I think most of are missing a very salient issue in this total fiasco. And nobody loves the Clippers more than I do. There was a big reason EB left when he was able to. Nobody in their right mind wants to play for the Dumbass. EB said all the right things over the years. But how fast did he get ghost? It’s as simple as that! Roster turnover, Sterling and his management team yada yada yada. Doesn’t matter, nobody wants to play for this moron. Corey told Baron what was up before last season even started, “you don’t know what you’re getting yourself into.” The saddest thing for the fans, myself included is the type of coaches that were ready, willing and able to step into this situation and win more than 19 games provided they were able to coach with an absolute degree of autonomy. Making decisions and taking the blame for mistakes is part of any successful organization. Systems don’t win championships. Players win championships. And we all know the Clippers have employed a dearth of high level players over the years. Are the court dimensions not the same in every NBA arena in the nation?
too many leaders
at this point I think we need more followers. I mean who is leading the team, it was supposed to be Baron but he didn’t do a good job at times it might me Camby and now we want it to be Gordon or Griffin. What we need is for one clear leader to be established and the others to follow him.
In Gordon we trust
Unfortunate but true, where is the leadership? It comes from the top down in successful
organizations, whether it’s football (look at the Pats) or basketball (Buss or the Houston ownership). It starts with Sterling then the GM then the coach and the players. You’d like to hold the players accountable – lord knows I blamed BD every time he was on the court.
But realisitcally, the players get their cues from the people above them. If it’s DTS and Dunleavy then it’s just a reciped for disaster. we’ve seen it year after year. The one breakout year was when we had Cassell actually coach the team from the floor. Anyone who witnessed that year can tell you Sam was in control.
In light of keeping the same owner, gm and coach, where’s our Cassell? It’s not BD or Camby. It’s too early for EJ to assume the role, and how can he with Dunleavy calling x number of plays all the time? One way to make a successful franchise when it’s shorthanded is to make it run. Running wears down every opponent . But how can Dunleavy get the guys to run when they all hate playing for him?
One way would be to fess up for your mistakes and gain a little respect from your players. If your always looking for excuses and not accepting responsibility the players see it too. If the owner, gm and coach aren’t accepting responsibility I quarantee the players won’t. It’s killing the organization.
I think it was a preemptive excuse for this off-season...
He stuck to the injury excuse/explanation all of season without going into the 13 new guys thing that much, if at all. After 19 wins last season, I think he’s aware that the fan base would just as soon see another roster overhaul this off-season (which isn’t going to happen). I think saying that all of the moves last year played a big part in the lousy season is his way of justifying not making many moves this summer.
"not making many moves this summer"
That’s the spin all right. And it goes above MDsr – Roeser has used that angle to explain why they’re not firing MDsr. So in the interest of stability, they’re bringing back essentially the same team and the same coach after winning 19 games. Good thing they got the number 1 pick, eh?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 31, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
MDsr’s contract saved MDsr’s job. This is just the spin Roeser is using to justify not making a coaching change.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 31, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I think he might have been moved regardless
But in any event there’s no need to debate the issue
I misunderstood your earlier comment...
I thought you were saying the ‘no changes’ thing saved MDsr’s job, but now realize you were saying that the first pick saved the job.
Clearly the first pick helped provide cover. I think the contract was the biggest factor, but the pick helped them justify it, just like the ‘stability’ argument helps them justify it. We’ll never know what would have happened – I think they were going to start the season with him regardless, because I just don’t see waiting until the lottery if you intend to make a move. But winning the lottery helped take the heat off the coach, that’s for sure.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
The 4th Quarter
One of the most alarming things about this team were the the 4th quarter meltdowns. Having the ability to close out a game was the exception, while losing aggressiveness and buckling under pressure was the rule. This is something we’re going to have to fix in order to be a playoff team, though I think some Blake Griffin and or Ricky Rubio could help.
Sam Cassell
is the answer to the 4th quarter collapses. Plain and simple. And there really isn’t any one on the current roster that brings the same swagger and attitude that he and Cat Mobley had.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Question
Why would MDSr admit he does a terrible job? Nevermind, DTS wouldn’t fire him anyway. Right?
I’m confused. Under most normal circumstances, you wouldn’t admit when you’ve done a terrible job to your boss if you silently resolved to change something.
That being said, he still sucks.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I understand that reasoning...
But I don’t agree with it.
It’s George W. Bush, when asked what mistakes he had made as president, and he said “I can’t think of a single one.” The Rovian political machine says “Never ever admit a mistake, because they’ll use it against you.” But at the same time, the arrogance and absence of responsibility is a bigger problem, at least for a portion of the population to which I belong.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Among other things, as alluded to above
the team owes it to the fans to be straight with them.
by Jax on Jun 1, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this is a sports thing
These guys are so fundamentally arrogant. I don’t think it is like us, where when i screw up at my job I take responsibility and go from there. I do think some of these believe that nothing is ever their fault. Watching Phil Jackson’s press conference the other day I was completely stunned by the fact that he never takes responsibility. It is either the fault of his players, or the referres but never him.
I realize comparing Jackson and MDsr might be silly, but I just think this sort of thing is par for the course in professional athletics.
by Michael White on Jun 1, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that I would deal with that if we could land a coach of Phil's caliber
And there are not too many teams out there who consistently fail like the Clippers do. They owe the fans candidness.
by Jax on Jun 1, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Governmental admissions are a trickier thing
I’m not sure that the President should go out and admit to mistakes to the public for a number of reasons. However, there is or should be accountability in the form of oversight by Congress and the Judicial Branch (that didn’t happen too much in the last eight years).
On the other hand, the President and his staff need to be able to understand the mistakes they’ve made so that they can properly lead the country. I suspect that the previous administration was so unwilling to admit mistakes even to themselves because of the enormity of the mistakes that were made and the consequences of those mistakes. MDSr has no such “excuse” if that qualifies as one.
We’re far afield now, I must admit.
by Jax on Jun 1, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
very interesting...
I keep thinking that the argument for firing Mike Dunleavy is completely correct except that it ignores Clipper management politics. But, clearly there’s a difference between the President of a country admitting mistakes and a basketball coach admitting same. My analogy has failed… but where?
No offense CS
As a Clippers fan I would never expect you to.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's a matter of respect. If we, the fans don't respect him for his attitude, how
do you think the players feel? It’s no wonder no one wants to play for this team.
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