Suspension of Disbelief
That's playoff basketball (I really hate that cliche).
It's amazing how quickly things have heated up in this round, particularly between the Rockets and the Lakers. In a seven game series, seeing the same guys night after night, knowing all too well what brand of deodorant they use (assuming they use one, <cough>Luis Scola</cough>), you can certain understand why tensions mount. But this is game two people! At this rate of escalation, it's going to be the Crips and the Bloods by game 6 (would you believe Jets and Sharks by game 7?)
But I just don't get the suspense over the potential suspensions. Or rather, I get it, because the NBA is so bloody inconsistent on this subject, who knows what they'll do. But isn't it pretty obvious what should happen?
Kobe Bryant - no suspension. Seriously folks, I dislike Kobe as much as the next guy, but that was a pretty run of the mill elbow from what we can infer given that there's no clean camera angle on it. (That's part of the issue of course - there's simply no way you can suspend a guy based on what we've been shown on that play. If Stu Jackson has a better angle on it, that could change things.) And the whole "Dwight Howard was suspended so Kobe has to be suspended" logic doesn't wash for me. Not that I necessarily agreed with Howard's suspension, but he lined up Dalembert after a made bucket. Kobe was trying to get Artest off his back, and it was in the context of the play. Did the refs on the court miss it? Did they blow the call? Of course they did. Is it a suspendable offense. No way.
Derek Fisher - obvious suspension, at least one game if not two. Look, I'm telling you guys what I would do. I have no idea what Stu Jackson is going to do - he constantly surprises me. But Fisher's hockey forecheck was absolutely ridiculous. Again, taking into consideration the context of the game, he absolutely leveled Scola, without disguising his intent in the least. Part of the problem here is the NBA's slavish devotion to literal interpretations of the rulebook. So, there wasn't a punch, there wasn't an elbow, oh dear, what do we do? What are we really looking for though? Non basketball plays that are dangerous. That's it, right? Now, you can argue whether there was any real danger to Scola - rugby players take that hit all day long without any pads, so no, Fisher's not going to actually injure Scola. But that's not the point - the point is if Fisher hits Scola that hard, with intent, outside the context of the game, and doesn't get a significant punishment, then the next guy is going to hit even harder. By the way, I'd consider fining Phil Jackson for making a mockery of his press conference with the whole "We had a foul to give, he was fighting through the screen" thing. Give me a break, PJ. We're not idiots, and neither are you. Don't insult our intelligence.
(That reminds me of the incident between Raja Bell and Kobe a couple of years ago. Bell hit Kobe, got ejected. They asked him why. He didn't make up some story. He didn't re-invent reality, saying "I didn't hit him, it was an accident." He told the truth. "I'm tired of eating his elbows and the refs aren't helping me. I got pissed off and I hit him, because I don't like the pompous ass." That's how you handle it. Don't lie to us Phil.)
Ron Artest - no suspension. I actually don't think anyone believes he will be suspended, but just for good measure I thought I'd include him in the discussion. He didn't make contact with anything other than his chest, and he's already the aggrieved party in all of this, getting a personal foul, a technical foul and an ejection while Kobe got nothing. There obviously should be no suspension for Artest. Continuing the above aside, I thought he handled himself surprisingly well in the post-game interview about the incident. I dislike Ron-Ron, but he came out of this incident looking like a reasonable fellow.
Rafer Alston - no suspension. Switching games, I wouldn't suspend Alston either. This is where people are going to say I'm being inconsistent, but Alston's slap was, to me, much like Artest getting in Kobe's face. It was an attention getter. He didn't even swing hard. Artest was saying to Kobe "You're pissing me off and I want you to stop." That's what Skip was saying to House. The actual contact reminded me of something I would do to a friend who's being annoying. It was a Three Stooges slap. "Why, I oughta...." Someone on the game thread last night said Alston shouldn't be suspended, but instead he should be mocked mercilessly. That sounds about right to me.
There you go. Those are my common sense suspensions. No "open fist versus closed fist", "above the neck versus below the neck" literalistic wrangling. Just common sense, this is what needs to happen. Derek Fisher needs to be punished to send a message - for all the others, let's lace 'em up Friday.
I realize of course that one man's common sense is another man's idiocy. So let the debate begin. What would you do?
I don't know who is hosting the traveling game thread for Cavs-Hawks tonight. The game is on ESPN at 5 PM Pacific, and there should be a game thread somewhere. I'm getting on a plane in a couple of hours, so I won't be able to provide any update, but Basketball John will probably have an update about the game thread on SLC Dunk before tip off, so you can always check there.
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kobe..
Kobe deserves a suspension due to the fact he connected with an intentional elbow. I don’t think it’s right that the nba sends the message that if you are kobe you can get away with an elbow to someone’s neck. Kids cannot receive that message. Besides kobe, I don’t think anyone else deserves suspension time.
Not even Fisher?
Well there you go. Reasonable people, disagreeing.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 7, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Artest
had every right to get up in Kobe’s face and let him know that’’s not gonna fly. It is one of the more outrageous plays you will see. A guy gets elbowed in the chops, whistled for the foul, and then ejected standing up for himself. I would have been fine with Ron-Ron decking Joey Crawford.
There is NO justice in the NBA. It is a bunch of rogue officials and a guy named Stu, arguably one of the biggest buffoons in the history of basketball.
By the way, I like Artest. He certainly has emotional problems. He may even be a little DD (developmentally delayed). His IQ may be sub-100. I don’t know. But he does seem to be trying to turn it around. He has become a charitable guy and outspoken about certain causes. He is trying to atone for his many, many, many mistakes, which is commendable.
I am writing a post called “The Myth of Kobe Bryant”. This is in reaction to his completely inexplicable addition to the All-NBA Defensive First Team, while Dwayne Wade, the only guard I know of to be one of the top 15 shot blockers, setlled for 2nd Team
F-Elton!
Go to the archives...
I’ve written that post so many times, I grow weary of it. Happy to have someone else take up the call. Search ‘kobe’ and ‘tight end’ and you should get last year’s edition.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
From two years ago...
Actually, that one is from two years ago. There’s no doubt an update from last May, but like I said I get tired of writing the same post over and over. Kobe’s defense is the emperor’s new clothes. As it happens, he’s actually defended against the opponent’s top guy a few more times this season, but he’s still vastly overrated on D given what he actually does, as opposed to what people say he can do, what he does from time to time.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 7, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember
That’s what made me think of it. Time for an appendix. There are other parts of the “myth”. It’s not just his D. It is this notion that he is somehow the standard bearer of today’s NBA greatness. The truth is, he is maybe the 3rd best player in the NBA. Maybe.
His PER has never been in the neighborhood of LeBron/Wade/Paul. He is a very inefficient player. He has something like one assist (1) in game ending situations. He misses more game winners than he makes. He has NO class (when do you ever Wade or James taunting their opponents or fans? Did MJ ever do it to the extent Kobe does?)
That was the gist of what I was thinking. There is a lot more to it than defense. Perhaps I will skip it now that you get the gist.
In the absence of Clippers basketball, why not partake in a little Kobe hating? For fun.
F-Elton!
kb hating never gets old...
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
by Lawler's Law on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
can't wait to read it...
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
by Lawler's Law on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't think I'm going to write it now.
The main points were made above anyway. The rest would have just been filler.
Plus, the editor-in-chief didn’t seem thrilled by the idea :-)
F-Elton!
My bad...
I love the idea… and love the outline you have above. I didn’t mean to imply that I didn’t want you to do it. One of the things I love about the blog is the archives, and making sure we know what has been said before. It doesn’t mean it’s not worth saying again – reinforcing, clarifying, correcting, whatever. So when I said “check the archives” it really meant that – check the archives before writing it, to see what has been discussed before. It didn’t mean, “It’s all been said, don’t bother.” Not at all.
Here’s hoping you decide to do it still. Plenty of Kobe bashing left for us this postseason.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 10, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I would honestly take wade over kobe to build around, today, any day of the week. Wade is underrated and kobe plays for the lakers.
Most people would
Lebron and Wade are 6 and 4 years younger respectively. They’ve also played alot less basketball. Kobe could break down any year now like a long list of perimeter players. Even now he’s shooting more and more contested jumpers.
FA in 2010.
eddie house
i hate that guy, his arogance is annoying, i was just telling somebody that i wanted to punch after he was mad dogging everybody and jumping around after hitting a 3, not sure why rafer slapped him he should have punched him but i could see why he did it.
Mocked mercilessly
Is right…this guy is a form And 1 player…nothing is worse than being mocked for the rest of his playing life, not even a playoff game suspension…I can hear it no "did your mama teach you how to fight!?"
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
No suspensions all around
“Skip to my Lou” Alston was a love tap
Kobe – No way, he shoots with elbow flailing to the side. You just have to look at tapes when He elbowed Ginobli. That’s Kobe’s natural everyday motion.
Artest – No suspension here, Everyone believes Ron-ron was in the right for this case. He got elbowed in the neck, he complained his case and got T’d up and then told Kobe “He’s messing w/ the wrong guy”. Besides, Ron had the best post game interview.
Fisher – No suspension. After hearing Phil Jackson’s accounts of the Fisher altercation, I now believe Luis’ Face was in the wrong place, wrong time. “Fisher was anticipating the scene, but came to early and that is why Luis ran into Fisher.” Never have I heard a more convincing argument since “A Time to kill” with Matthew McConaughey’s character.
lol you cannot be serious. phil jackson and derek fisher had the lamest excuse ever.The only reason was to knock scola down.
I'm not serious
Just having a ball with this
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4150159
Fisher and Alston suspended 1 game
Kobe flagrant
How much is that going to cost? Mandatory fine, right?
I really enjoyed that game. The league has weeded out all of the contact. It’s a LOT more entertaining when there’s some genuine enmity.
I'm no rafer alston fan..
but how was his head slap penalized the same amount as fisher’s headbutt? Fisher’s cheap shot would be illegal in fake wrestling
Skip had to be suspended
That situation could have escalated quickly. Although extremely feminine, slapping someone is definitely something that can start a fight.
You’ve got to remember that this clip was played thousands of times on all the sports networks. The league office is more about sending messages than it is about just punishment. The message here is that you can’t purposely provoke a guy like that…especially if it’s something that isn’t even close to a “basketball play”. If the league lets something like that go unpunished, then every scrub is going to try and provoke stars into fights. It’s a slippery slope.
The ol' slippery slope argument...
I get what your saying…. I’m just not a fan of the ‘slippery slope’. That argument is used to explain more positions than the karma sutra (thank you, I’m here all week).
In the end, I can’t argue with where Stu ended up. It’s justifiable. Alston’s slap was stupid and certainly not a basketball play.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 10, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it just me
Or does it look like Ron Ron is kissing Kobe. Reminds me of when a dad tries to kiss his son but the son is too old to get kissed in public by their dad of all people.
FA in 2010.
ROFL
It must be past my bedtime, I just read the caption below the pic. I guess we were of the same mind.
FA in 2010.
I was thinking the same thing...
Does CC not read captions?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 10, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
A very argentinian opinion
After receiving such a hard elbow, Ron Artest should have played the victim role, falling to the floor if necessary, as Luis Scola did before. Instead, he escalated things and tryed to look for revenge, and ended up ejected in what was still a game .
It was a real hard hit by Bryant, so, had Artest played some victim, the league wouldn´t have had another option but to suspend Kobe, instead of Fisher. VERY short-sighted and costly decision by Ron. Hopefully, he´ll learn a thing or two from Luis about intangibles in a basketball game.
good insight Edu...never thought of that possibility...water under the bridge now...
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
But
Artest is who he is. There’s no way he would ever play the victim, which is really part of his appeal as a defender and a player. He’s a warrior. I’m personally not a big fan of flopping.
by Jax on May 8, 2009 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
true...i liked the fact that Ron-Ron got up into KB's grill...
he’s a tough player…KB acted like a little B by just throwing his arms up in the air and acting innocently…
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
Its not flopping if you really got elbowed in the face
In general I’m with you. But a person has to be smart. Think poker.
If this ONE TIME, Artest reacts exactly the opposite way you expect Artest to react, maybe Kobe is suspended for a game. That’s helping your team win.
"So what are the odds that the Clippers can compete next season given their limited flexibility? Slim and none."
It's flopping regardless
Either what the guy did really causes you to fall, or you take advantage of the situation and flop.
Flopping is a state of mind. Artest isn’t capable of that. Which makes him who he is.
by Jax on May 9, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed...
I just don’t think it would occur to Artest.
The Argentine perspective is interesting here, to be sure. As it happens, Scola didn’t have to sell that Fisher hit much. Fish went Ronnie Lott on him. But the importance of drawing the ref’s attention in futbol definitely gives a whole different mindset to these situations. I’ve played a lot of basketball – but frankly, most of it has been without a ref. No point in flopping if there’s no ref, right? That’s where Artest is – playing playground ball.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 10, 2009 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I've played alot of basketball too
Alot with refs, alot without refs. I’m a pretty physical player (surprising, I know). Generally I wouldn’t think of flopping because there is usually a certain “honor” among players about earning their baskets (who are not playing collegiate or professional basketball). Most refs (who are not dealing with collegiate or professional games) go along with this and can see through the false flopping.
Basketball is played in different ways in different cultures. I lived in Helsinki for a while over a decade ago. Finns love basketball (korippalo). I played in the third division while I was there (first division is professional with two US players generally on the teams). There were alot of foreign players playing in the third division. They did not flop at all over there, but the game was less physical (surprising, I know). I was playing one day against a former Finnish Olympic team member – a guard – and for some reason I decided to flop and got the call. He was upset about it and tried to do it to me, but by then the refs had realized that they had been had and didn’t call it again.
that's it!
When is the ClipsNation citizen game happening? Talk about dream matchups! Jax guarding John R!?
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
by Lawler's Law on May 11, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
His foul on Gasoft didn't deserve a suspension
right call by the league. Also right call on Fisher that play was dirty and anyone denies it is obviously either blind or in denial.
In Gordon we trust
Ron's foul was not a flagrant
He played the ball and it wasn’t hard from the other flagrant fouls.
It looked worse b/c of Gasol’s fall.
The NBA agreed it wasn’t a Flagrant 2 but they can’t go back and call it a regular foul
Agreed...
NBA got it right. Looked bad at the time – tough fall by Pau. Upon further review, no big, he went for the ball.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on May 10, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Altough,
Gasol when pouting looks like Beaker from the muppets

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