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The Clipperblogger Summit - Part Four

Can Chris Kaman be traded for the missing "Glue guy"?

More photos » Gus Ruelas - AP

Can Chris Kaman be traded for the missing "Glue guy"?

Here it is, the long-awaited fourth installment of the Clipperblogger Summit - an on-going exchange between myself and Kevin Arnovitz of Clipperblog

The conversation so far:  Part One, Part Two, Part Three

To:  Kevin Arnovitz
From: Steve Perrin
Date: June 10, 2009

Based on your list of ideal "Glue guys" I think we may have a slightly different definition (which is one of the problems with these imaginary archetypes).  Reverse engineering from the guys on your list, I realize that I wouldn't have included Turkoglu or Odom - which begs the question why?  I'm realizing that my own working definition inadvertently requires the "glue guy" to be pretty limited on offense.  Obviously, that's not an advantage per se.  I think the difference is that players as talented as Turkoglu get labels like 'potential all star' from the media while the Battiers and Bowens have to settle for "glue guy" as a consolation prize - "we recognize that this guy is important, but it goes without saying he's not a 'star' in the traditional sense."  No matter.

I said that being limited on offense is not an advantage per se.  But in your Tau approach ("To achieve offense you must prepare for defense"), the simple fact of the matter is that there are five guys on the floor, and only one of them has the ball in his hands.  In that sense, you could argue that it's four times more important to be effective WITHOUT the ball on offense - and most of the curent Clippers are best with the ball in their hands.  There's a chicken and egg thing going on here - does MDsr have a penchant for running isos, which turns the other players into spectators, or do the limitations of the personnel dictate the Clippers' style?  Regardless we know that the Clippers get very little movement off the ball, they get even less ball movement and their spacing is terrible.  (It continually amazes me when NBA teams can't space the floor properly - how hard can that be?)  You're kind of "Glue Guy" (an ultra-versatile player with a high basketball IQ) would be a welcome addition.  But I'd settle for a guy who knows where to be on offense, can hit an open shot, and understands how to rotate on defense.

But I'm a little concerned at this point that this conversation has gotten stuck in the glue (thank you, I'm here all week).

There's a pretty natural transition here to a discussion of potential trades.  Trevor Ariza for something below the MLE would be a terrific addition to be sure.  But other than that, I don't see a lot of options in free agency.  Former Clipper Matt Barnes?  Some of my readers have suggested that Mardy Collins is a candidate, and he may be the best option from the current roster, but I hope that we can do better. 

So what about all those expensive big guys who play the same positions as the Clippers' future franchise player?  Could Kaman, Camby or Randolph be moved for the type of wing player the team seems to be missing?  (I'm going to interject here quickly that if this seems like a Thornton-bashing session, it's really not.  But with franchise cornerstones presumably at the 2 and the 4, and massive amounts of salary tied up at the 1, 4 and 5, and with all of those guys needing the ball at least some, Al is a bad fit as a starter on this team.  Conversely, he could be tremendous off the bench, where a talented scorer capable of putting up lots of points in a short amount of time is a valuable asset.) 

Here's my take on trading bigs (which MDsr implied again on Saturday is a real possibility, even a priority).  Don't move Camby this off-season.  His value is most likely only going to go up as the trade deadline approaches.  Playoff bound teams who feel they need a big to protect the basket in a playoff run, will line up for Camby and his few remaining months of salary in February.  The offers are only going to get better.  And the worst case is that the team keeps him and his salary drops off the books.  He's also a good mentor to have around for the likes of Griffin and DeAndre Jordan (who'll suddenly become more important if a big is indeed dealt).

From a basketball standpoint, I'd move Zach Randolph.  He's the most redundant with Griffin (unless Griffin can be a day in day out center in the league).  I like the idea of the traditional center Kaman playing the position - call me old-fashioned.  Obviously, there's also the locker room standpoint, which is another reason to move Randolph.  But then there's the financial standpoint, and it becomes tougher (though probably not impossible) to move Zach's contract. 

That leaves Kaman.  As I said, I'd rather keep Kaman, but he may be the logical one to move this off-season.  His contract doesn't make him a pariah, and seven-footers with skills remain a pretty limited resource.  Wouldn't Chicago, desperate for a post presence, take the oft-injured and sometimes underachieving Kaman for the oft-injured and sometimes underachieving Luol Deng?  We've also seen chatter (none of it substantiated, from what I can tell) of Kaman for Kirk Hinrich, Kaman for Tayshaun Prince, and Kaman in a sign-and-trade for Josh Childress (OK, I just made that one up). 

At any rate, let's hope we're not the only ones who see a surplus of bigs, and a dearth of "Glue guys" and wonder if a swap can be worked out.

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

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I'm going to do my best Laker fan trade scenario

Clips trade Camby, Ricky Davis and Minny’s #1 pick for Dwight Howard

Then we trade Baron Davis, a future #1 pick and a 2nd rd pick for CP3

This is not going to happen

by Qlippers on Jun 10, 2009 7:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kaman for Tayshaun...

Done deal.

Nice and simple.

by Newtybar on Jun 10, 2009 9:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kaman for Tayshaun

That by for would be the greatest thing ever…. next to Zach for Tashaun. That would be a great line up:
pg: B Diddy Mike Taylor
sg: Eric gordon resign Fred Jones or Pricky Davis
sf : Tayshaun Prince Al Thornton
pf: Blake Griffin Marcus Camby
C : Chris Kaman DeAndre Jordan

I would also like to see L. Deng in a Clips uniform if the Prince trade does not work.

I also would like to see Zach and R. Davis to Memphis for that # 2 Ricky Rubio….. Hey! A guy can dream.

by ChrisS.Oaks on Jun 10, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are dreaming...

Wake up, new guy!

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 10, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

The title should have been You are dreaming, with the italics…. Came out different than it was in my head! :)

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 10, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least

… you are a Clips fan.

by ChrisS.Oaks on Jun 10, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great job Steve

particularly your first two paragraphs. Basically summed up the Clippers offensive woes.

Don’t think Ariza is attainable, and don’t think Randolph is movable (though that could also change around the deadline). I’m not in a huge hurry to scuttle Zach out of here just for the sake of it. I saw little to indicate that he was some sort of locker room cancer. His infractions were pretty minor from my viewpoint (of course DUI’s are BAD, but sadly, they are quite common, and punching that dude really didn’t bother me too much).

I think Baron help set the tone for a bad locker room, but so did Kaman. That’s right, Kaman. The guy dogs it. He was clearly healthy and just didn’t want to play in Feb. and March. And I think everyone knew it. I have questions about his commitment and attitude. Those questions, combined with the questions about his mental make up, make him the big I think should be moved, if one must. But we’ll see.

The Clippers are loaded with athletes, but light on “basketball players”. Guys that are fundamentally sound passers, shooters, rotators, without-the-ball movers, etc. Improvement could be made there.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 10, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree about Kaman

His mental instability takes its tole on me. I can only imagine how it is for the teammates who are directly affected….

by Newtybar on Jun 10, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

At least Zach looked like he was trying when he was on the basketball court. Zach also came back relatively soon following his injury. Up until Zach threw that punch he was also an outstanding citiizen. I think being on a team that is sucking is part of the reason he started getting into problems at the end of the season. I know that it’s not a good excuse, but i imagine that if the clippers play well then zach won’t be a behavioral problem.

But then again when dealing with matchups and players playing in their natural position, I would prefer Kaman over Zach.Griffin is able to do most what Zach can do (minus outside range) and then some, so i think having Kaman would provide more versatility. Also Kaman is a true center which is a plus IMO.

by shay on Jun 10, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are right about Zach

he will always be a reflection of his envorionment, rather than a catalyst for change. He may shine on a good team.

Kaman is a pain in the butt. And how often in six years have we been able to say “the Clippers would not have won this game without Kaman?” Maybe a few, but not enough to think that he is unmovable.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 10, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Piece

It seems as though there is some agreement as to what the Clippers need, namely a wing who can defend. While there is some dispute about how offensively capable this player should be, he definitely should be a good passer, move well without the ball, etc. As Mikey P put it a “basketball player.” I couldnt agree more (though I am of the opinion that the player being a great offensive player is not a bad thing (provided he meets the aforementioned good passer, defender, criteria). I have openly petitioned for Caron Butler, but there are plenty of other options (at least to consider).

Of course there are the guys Steve mentioned- Ariza, Deng, Prince etc…

No better “basketball player” than Grant Hill, who I believe is a free agent, but I am well aware at how unrealistic that is for a myriad of reasons (and for both parties)

Shawn Marion (wouldnt be near the top of my list, but might beworth considering if the price is right)

Mike Miller- Doesn’t give you the defensive presence of the other guys mentioned here, but he has a great basketball IQ, is a playmaker, and one of the elite shooters in the game.

Andrei Kirelinko, Richard Jefferson- Guys that can really play D and give you some points

Larry Hughes- long defender who can shoot the 3

Not saying any of these guys are perfect or even realistic neccesarily (and obviously some are free agents some are pieces you would have to trade for….

I still think trading Kaman is a scary prospect, unless Jordan makes significant strides this offseason. Kaman is a frustrating player, but we really need his size on both ends of the floor. Camby is just not going to be able to guard opposing centers in the post, and Jordan is definitely not there yet either.

And I agree with the two above…Zach is a good ball player who works hard…We definitely need to hold on to him until we find out if Griffin is ready to be a starter….I think he will be relatively easy to trade next season if Griffin does work out.

Now, lets go get Griffin and Rubio…

by johnnyoc21 on Jun 10, 2009 12:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

tagging in

…so with going along with johnnyoc’s plot….if we trade Kaman and are worried about his missing defensive…. Skinner can be a sub in to play defense on bigs…albiet short versions in short spurts… we would have Kaman’s traded piece in the line up….lets not forget…. Zach’s low post offense is just as good as Kamans …better…Zach is more stable…. inconsistancy is very bad. we could have a few rotations were Blake moves over to center and zach is pf….there are a lot of options…but only when you know what youll get and when youll get it from a palyer…as im typing this..im realizing how unstable Kaman has been over his career… good bad bad good bad bad bad

if you got a …. D an A a D, D, D, A, A, D, D, A are you an A player…a D player…your a C player…average it ou… Kaman may average out to be a C player….the good with the bad

by Takebb909 on Jun 10, 2009 1:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jonas Jerebko

I wrote a comment like this on snackbars fanpost earlier. But because I’m totaly biased towards having Jerebko on the team (beening a Swede and Clipperfan) and because it would actually be a good fit. I’ll post this dreamy suggestion here aswell.

I would love for the Clippers to get an early second round pick and then draft my man Jonas Jerebko.

DraftExpress profile

Probably has the best "glue guy" potential in the draft and would be a perfect fit longterm together with the other youngens.

by Marten on Jun 11, 2009 3:25 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sounds pretty good...

After the Korolev debacle, I’m sure a lot of folks around here are necessarily a little squeamish about ‘versatile european small forwards’ – but he does sound like the kind of guy we’re talking about from the profile. Without a second round pick, it’s obviously a long shot at this point.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Shane Battier. Anybody see a scenario where we get him? Houston could use a scoring PF like Zach Randolph.

by LJ Hann on Jun 21, 2009 9:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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