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Should I Stay or Should I Go? The NBA Draft Hopeful's Theme Song

This is a post that's been rattling around in my head for a couple of months now.  I'm not sure exactly where I'm going with it, but just bear with me and we'll see where we end up.

With two weeks to go before the NBA Draft, it occurs to me that the Clippers have all the makings of a case study in the age-old draft question:  should I stay or should I go?  Two players from the high school class of 2007, one entered the draft in 2008 while the other entered the draft in 2009.  Staying in school could not have worked out much better for Blake Griffin: he won the Wooden Award and he's the presumptive number one pick.  Meanwhile, DeAndre Jordan slipped all the way into the second round in 2008.  So the message is clear right?  Stay in school kids.  And eat your vegetables.  And don't talk to strangers. 

Let's crunch some numbers, just for grins.

There's no way to know for certain where Blake Griffin would have been drafted in 2008.  At the time he withdrew, he was usually described as a 'Top 10 pick' or 'Lottery pick'.  And if anything you would expect his draft stock would have risen with combine results, interviews, etc.  Comparing him to who actually was drafted, it's hard to imagine Milwaukee taking Joe Alexander (a 6'8" athletic freak) if Griffin (a 6'10" athletic freak) had been on the board.  But for argument's sake, let's slot him at the end of the lottery, 14th pick in the 2008 draft.  The 14th pick in 2008, Anthony Randolph, will make $8,243,791 in his first four years in the league before he is eligible to re-sign assuming the Warriors picks up their options.  The first pick Derrick Rose, on the other hand, will make $22,547,148 in the first four years.  So, Blake Griffin made himself a LOT of money - like over $14M - by staying in school, right?  OU blog Crimson and Cream Machine said at the time "This was the better choice for Griffin. Sure, he’s passing up on a huge payday but in return he’ll get an even bigger one in the future."  Hold up, not so fast.  Because you can't ignore the fact that Griffin made zero dollars in 08-09 playing in Norman (this isn't USC, right?)  So you have to look at the five years starting then to get a truer picture:

Star-divide

The table below accumulates Blake Griffin's projected annual NBA salary from June 2008 until June 2013.  The Stay? column is approximately what he will be making, since he stayed in school last year.  The Go? column is an estimate of what he would have made had he entered the draft in 2008.

Year Stay? Go?
08-09 $0 $1,709,280
09-10 $4,822,800 $1,837,560
10-11 $5,184,480 $1,965,720
11-12 $5,546,160 $2,911,231
12-13 $6,993,708 $13,758,000
Total $22,547,148 $22,001,791

 

Seriously, I didn't know where this was going until I typed the data in that table and added it all up.  I suspected, but this is more fascinating than I thought.  First of all, some explanation. 

  1. I'm using the actual salary data for the 2008 14th pick Anthony Randolph in the 'Go' column.  That's the last pick in the lottery, where we're assuming for the sake of this argument Griffin would have been drafted.  Drafted sooner, he makes more.  Drafted later, he makes less.   (I'm guessing he would have been drafted sooner.)
  2. I'm using the actual salary data for the 2008 first pick Derrick Rose in the 'Stay' column.  Normally, those salaries go up year over year.  AS IT HAPPENS, it's going to go down this year because of the economy and it's effect on NBA revenues, which triggers changes in everything from the salary cap to the mid level exception to rookie contract amounts.  So in fact, he WON'T make as much as Derrick Rose, but that would have been difficult to foresee in his decision making in 2008.
  3. I'm using Chris Paul's max extension amount for the first season of the 2012 contract.  This assumes a lot of course.  It assumes he plays like a maximum contract player.  In that case, we would expect his 12-13 salary to in fact be even higher, since again all of these salaries trend up over time, the current recession notwithstanding.  So best guess, if he really is a max worthy player, he would make MORE in the first year of his 12-13 contract. 
  4. Going forward from that point into years 6 and beyond, we can assume that the amounts would be roughly equivalent.

And don't forget, he would also be eligible to start making endorsement deals a year sooner as well.  In the end, it's pretty clear to me that even in this wildly best case scenario for staying in school (he played great, he improved, he avoided a deep draft and entered a bad draft - it just doesn't get more favorable), he'll likely come out financially behind for his career.  He'll be a ridiculously wealthy man either way, don't get me wrong.  But the financial case is pretty interesting, nonetheless.

Let's look at the other side of the stay in school coin - DeAndre Jordan.  With DJ, the unknowns are much more daunting.  We know he slid in the 2008 draft, all the way into the second round.  We know that the 2009 draft is not nearly as deep as the 2008 draft.  It's not unreasonable to assume that if he'd had a stellar season at A&M, he would be neck and neck with Hasheem Thabeet as the best center in the 2009 draft.  He's just as long as Thabeet and he's more athletic.  He's not as good a defender right now, but he has the potential to be better on offense. 

Since he's a case study for 'stay in school', let's say DJ would have been the fifth pick in the 2008 draft.  It's a stretch, but let's just look at the numbers in that case.  The fifth pick in 2008, Kevin Love, will make $14,812,701 over the first four years of his rookie contract.  Jordan, being a second round pick, had to settle for three unguaranteed years starting at the rookie minimum of $550,000 for a total of $2,140,809 in his first NBA contract.  Whoa.  $2M versus almost $15M.  Guess he should have stayed in school.  Jonathan Abrams of the New York Times came to that conclusion in March.  Again I say, not so fast.  Let's look at the five year plan.

I've already stated that there are a lot of unknowns here.  The biggest is, what kind of pro will DeAndre Jordan be eventually?  And there's a corollary: which choice was better for his development?  For 2013 DeAndre Jordan, would 2008 in College Station have been better than 2008 in Playa Vista?  You can't really answer that question.  We'll call it a wash for now, but I suspect being on an NBA team (practicing against NBA competition, working out in NBA facilities, being coached by NBA coaches) would be better for the future NBA player.  At any rate, the real question is, what does Jordan's NEXT contract look like?  The Clippers locked him up on the cheap for three years.  But because he came out a year earlier AND his deal is a year shorter than a first round contract, he'll have two extra years on a new contract to try to recoup some money.  So that $13M he supposedly left on the table?  If he plays himself into an MLE deal in the 2011 off-season (certainly within the realm of possibility for a player of his physical potential), suddenly he's recouped about $12M of it.  If he can get an even bigger contract (and looking at a guy like Sam Dalembert you can't rule it out), he could easily come out ahead over those crucial five years.

My point is, when Dick Vitale says this guy or that guy or the other guy should have stayed in school, maybe he's right for the kid's personal development, maybe he's right for the kid's social life, maybe he's right for the kid's education (though I seriously doubt that).  But he's almost NEVER right for the kid's pocket book.  Even when it seems like a complete disaster like DeAndre Jordan or Rashard Lewis ("omg, they were projected lottery picks and they fell out of the first round!"), it's still the right financial decision if you're good enough to get paid to play basketball.  Lewis looked really sad in the green room back in 1998 - and he'll be the 10th highest paid player in the league at the age of 30 next season. 

Everything pre-supposes that you can play, and the simple fact is we don't know what might have been.  Would Gerald Green have learned something in college that his NBA coaches didn't have the time or patience to teach him?  Did he cost himself money by entering the draft too soon?  Or did he make more money than he would have otherwise, as pro scouts had more time to find out what a knucklehead he was? 

The simple fact is, there are only very few cases you can point to and say, "That guy cost himself a lot of money by entering the draft too soon" or "That guy made himself a lot of money by returning to school."  DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin are two of the best cases you can possibly make for those scenarios, and neither of them is as clear cut as some would have you believe. 

On the other hand, there are any number of cases where you can say, with very little doubt, "That guy cost himself a LOT of money by waiting" or "That guy made himself a LOT of money by coming out."  Joakim Noah would have been drafted higher in 2006 than he was in 2007 - he actually HURT his draft stock by returning to school.  Shaun Livingston would not have been drafted at all had he injured his knee at Duke instead of in the NBA. 

Of course there are other factors.  Joakim Noah professes to have no regrets, and I believe him.  His final year in college went awfully well, with a second national title.  And as he says, he comes from a very wealthy family and he's got plenty of money - he was having fun at Florida and didn't want to stop.  That's a great decision for him.

I'm not anti-college.  Far from it.  My dad was a college professor, practically my entire family is in academia.  But growing up pretty close to Pepperdine basketball, I also know that the vast majority of these guys aren't college students.  They're basketball players.  If they want to get a college degree, they can do that after they join the NBA too.  That's fine.  But if they're good enough to get paid to play basketball, it's in their financial interests to start getting paid sooner rather than later.

I'm just saying, if someone says it pays for these prospects to go back to school, don't be so sure.

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I would advise any young player to go to the NBA

at least they share their profits, unlike the NCAA. If you can go get millions, go get them.

However, I respect one’s decision to stay in school, to, provided it is for the right reason (not lke Matt Leinart, who wanted to keep partying at USC).

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 11, 2009 1:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Self awareness

If they’re self aware enough (like Joakim Noah) to realize that they’re likely to make plenty of money as an NBA player regardless , then they can make the decision that works for them. I just want to debunk the theory that for many players it’s in their financial interests to stay in school. It almost never is.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is an interesting analysis

I have never bought in to the theory, either. More often than not, it hurts. Going to school for one year hurt OJ Mayo.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 11, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta get the word out

Next up, getting rid of the one-and-done and getting kids over to Europe making money. Eventually even gasp getting high school kids over there too.

Europe might be too far for their “handlers” to grift off them easily though, so probably won’t happen.

What about Kwame Brown? His second contract is millions under the going rate for mobile 6’11 dudes. I think its enough money to affect the algebra. He’s losing 3M-4M per year if you invoke the Dalembert rule, which will stretch out perpetually since each season’s salary tends to be based on the prior’s.

"So what are the odds that the Clippers can compete next season given their limited flexibility? Slim and none."

by John R on Jun 11, 2009 1:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Kwame...

Well, this is Kwame’s third contract, after all. I think the caveat was you have to be able to play. There’s also a backlash affect on players who are perceived to have been overpaid in earlier contracts – Juwan Howard is a good example. Dalembert ain’t gonna sign for much when this deal is done.

But by my math, Kwame is on track to make $50M in 9 NBA seasons. Hard to argue that a year or two in college (where people would have surely gotten a truer picture of his limitations) would have increased that. But you never know.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Part of my thinking is those limitations

They could have been identified and accounted for with lowered expectations. Even with similar performance, because he isn’t a “bust”, he’s got a better shot at larger contracts.

I don’t know just an angle to think about. Are you better off avoiding a “bust” label and mitigating it? That’s greatly reduced by the one-and-done, but it wasn’t that long ago. It probably only plays with bigs because just being a young, viable big is worth so much. Like if a guy knows he’s hype and a bust in the making as #1 overall, what should he do?

Kwame is going to be around the NBA for a while yet, but he’s never going to escape being Kwame Brown.

Same idea closer to home, what about Korolev? Is there any scenario short of absolute superstardom where he can show his face in the NBA again?

"So what are the odds that the Clippers can compete next season given their limited flexibility? Slim and none."

by John R on Jun 11, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

You need to account for time value calculations

and discount all that to present value cash flows.

basically NPV

by Newton Pham on Jun 11, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I disagree with some aspects of the post

Blake Griffin
Endorsement dollars – He’ll get more marketing opportunities as the 1st overall pick than he would as an also-ran lottery pick. He also establish himself as a household name from being the big fish in a small pond.
Guaranteed dollars – Let’s say he suffers (knock on wood) a serious injury like Shaun Livingston, the next contract might be alot less if he is even able to come back (think Jay Williams)
Playing time – He’s guaranteed alot more playing time being the 1st overall pick than being a project a team throws on the bench and gives garbage time to. Teams are aware that they need to play their high draft picks so the odds (subjective as they are) are favorable that Griffin at #1 would get more leeway than Griffin at #14.

DeAndre Jordan
2nd Round Picks have no guarantees, I would guess that half of the second round picks are overseas or in a minor league system and never make it to the NBA. Being a 1st round pick guarantees you’ll have 3-4 years to learn on company time.
No guaranteed money, again if he suffered a serious injury (knock on wood) within the first three years his next contract would be for alot less.
No playing time, DJ was the benefactor in alot of ways of the injury woes. If Kaman, ZBo and Camby not missed 2 bajillion games between them we would have seen very little of DJ.

Obviously either player could get hurt during that last year in college but thats just one year of injury risk (on a lighter playing schedule) versus 3-4 years of injury risk at next level.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 11, 2009 2:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Some valid points, some I don't really agree with

I’m glad you included the last line about college injuries. For me, you probably toss out the injury argument because you just don’t know where an injury is going to happen. You’re saying that the longer duration is a bigger risk. I would tend to say that the biggest risk of all is getting injured before you get paid, so if pressed I’d say that the risk of injuries is really a case for declaring sooner.

As for the guaranteed/unguaranteed issue, my caveat is that the guy can play. None of this matters much if he can’t play. If he’s not good enough to get a contract, not good enough to earn subsequent years on a non-guaranteed contract, not good enough to get a new contract, then what do we care? And isn’t it just as risky to stay in college, and give scouts another chance to find out you can’t play before they draft you?

The cache of being the number one pick is a good point – and if you had a strong belief that one more year in college would do that, then yeah, maybe it’s an argument for staying. But if it’s someone truly destined for superstardom, I’m not sure those endorsement deals are going to be delayed too long, and certainly not the playing time. But yeah, it’s a consideration.

There are a million moving parts here. I suppose you could try to make a case that it’s better to be drafted late in the first round, and have a chance to win on a good team, than to be chosen first and likely be on a bad team. But I stand by my basic premise that in the VAST majority of cases it’s better from a strictly financial standpoint to come out as soon as possible.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

For DeAndre, No. NBA teams are fiending for tall, long, athletic centers. What DJ should’be done regardless, is workout for all the teams, not just the top 14.

DJ wouldn’t have played at all last year if it wasn’t for the injuries. Mike Taylor would’nt have played at all if we had a decent backup pg. Al wouldn’t have played if Brand wasn’t injured, etc.

All im saying is that, players need to playing time to show their worth. There are too many situations to speculate if you’re going to be able to prove yourself. If DJ had gone to the Magic, playing 10 minutes behind Dwight Howard, his chance of making money is lesser than if he played 30 minutes for the bulls.

Sure a player might get his break years later like Chauncy Billups did, but the chance of getting a pay day later on in your career beomces increasingly lower. I think ultimatley going to college and being drafted higher is better for the player (late 1st round vs. lottery), not just economically. After a while, teams just don’t bother with a player. The potential label drops then your chance of a payday is gone… Too many players imo could’ve been better if they had gone to school. Gerald Green comes to mind.

by andrewexd on Jun 11, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also...

I think you should have stopped at the 13-14 year…a bit biased to stop at 12-13 the first year of a mega contract.

by Newton Pham on Jun 11, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Didn't I cover that?

13-14, 14-15 etc I’m assuming to be roughly the same. The guy who came out earlier gets a raise, the guy who came out later gets a slightly bigger contract assuming league revs go up and the max increases, all other things being equal.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

hmmm

I might have missed it, let me reread…I just got back from lunch lol.

by Newton Pham on Jun 11, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK I did the calculations

OK here’s the calculations and I used FV because it’s just easier to comprehend and has more impact.

If he were to invest his earnings with growth rate of 8% a year, this is how much he would have.

The future value of stay: $27,114,563
The future value of go: $25,742,014

by Newton Pham on Jun 11, 2009 2:37 PM PDT reply actions  

It's a good point...

But if we’re really considering time value of money in the initial decision, isn’t that even more of an argument to enter the draft sooner and start earning sooner? If the case of BG, where his initial contract is so much bigger, it makes a difference… but for the vast majority of prospects, it would be an argument to enter sooner, it seems to me. Not to mention the simple fact that you’d be a millionaire, living a millionaire’s life, a year sooner.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

valid point...

…I was just thinking upside scenario like Blake Griffin where he will get a good amount of money earlier on in his career vs if he went last year and was drafted much later.

For the Noah and Livingston type scenarios or even those who might have went in the same position…it’s go earlier.

by Newton Pham on Jun 11, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope your only using this formula for a consensus lottery projected player

…the scary thing to this entire philosophy or argument, is that 220,000 college basketball kids use this same method. Even narrowing it down to someone who is projected to go mid 2nd round to late 2nd round player who forgoes the last 2 years of school to declare for the draft enters and does not get drafted. Try out for 10 teams summer league make it but get cut in the final cuts before the season starts. This is why im saying this thought process can only be logical for someone who is clearly projected to go into the lottery to go into the draft a.s.a.p. That other guy who got cut, lost his scholarship for school and does not have a complete education. Did not make the team for that $280,000 contract. Without the education this person has went from dreaming of six figures to scrumming for a 9-5 that pays $22,000 a year. Were as is he went for the more sure thing (this again is the player is not a lottery projected star) and got a full education, on the schools tab and increased his chances of better pay in life. too many kids have there stories were greedy agent or family member comes along and pushes them into a situation detrimental. so if we are talking about a consensus lottery pick, then absolutely, test the waters. If your late first round or after, be smart. the draft is not a sure thing. that scholarship, to a degree, is.

by Takebb909 on Jun 11, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Point taken

The presumption here is that we’re talking about a guy who can and will make a living in the NBA – for whom that degree in “Organizational Communications” isn’t their meal ticket. Bear in mind also that the examples here are all 0, 1 and 2 year guys – none of these guys were 6 units short of their degree, right?

Having said that, you raise the other side of the spectrum, which is certainly a huge problem. The Hoop Dreams cautionary tale is real. Players like Michael Jordan and Dennis Johnson have unwittingly done a lot of damage. Now, even guys who aren’t stars in high school still dream of a career in the NBA – ‘Michael Jordan got cut from his HS team, and look where he ended up.’ And unfortunately plenty of kids are getting bad advice from would be agents and go betweens.

So yeah, for the vast majority of college basketball players, use that scholarship to get an education. For that tiny percentage who are good enough to play in the NBA, try to get some honest advice, and strike while the iron is hot.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 11, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

It worked for Griffin because he came out in a weak draft

Perhaps he foresaw this scenario. Last year’s draft was strong. He would have likely cracked the lottery, but who knows where.

His biggest risk was injury. It’s not like he was going to be exposed as not having a good jump shot. Everybody knows he doesn’t. His game is such that his value was likely to diminsh by additional court time against college kids. On the contrary, it was likely to improve, as was his stock.

Michael Beasley, on the other hand, would have been foolish to stay in after last year. He has since been exposed as being an undersized jump shooter, hardly a PF. Same for Griffin this year. He would be a fool to stay in one more year at this point.

To put Griffin in perspective, though; had this year’s Griffin come out in previous lottery’s, he would have been the #1 pick in most of them, and in the Top 3 in the others. Yao, LeBron, Carmelo, Oden, Durant and maybe Rose would have gone before him.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 11, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Melo wouldn't go before him

Considering Darko went before Melo. I don’t think Durant and possibly Oden would have gone before him either considering Durant’s poor numbers at the combine and Oden’s injury history. Griffin has just come off one of the statistically dominant performances in college history and has a clearly defined position.

Lebron’s probably the only clear-cut player who would be taken before him, after that maybe Yao but there was alot of question marks regarding him before he was drafted (he was drafted as much for marketability as basketball ability).

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 11, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I digress.

Your using Darko in which Dumars choose position over the best talent.

He loved Prince so much that he did not want Melo.
Remember Prince was the reason Rick Carlisle got fired.

That was a once in a lifetime mistake Dumars made.
That’s what he gets for listening to ESPN writers.
.
Now if f Blake had the same year Durant, Oden, or Melo had as freshman Blake would have come out as a freshman. He didn’t.

His game is not on there level. It’s a weak draft. He may be the next Joe Smith.

by Sharksbreath on Jun 11, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Darko was rated highly

By almost everyone. Here’s a mock draft by SI that states such http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/05/22/mock_draft/

Back to Griffin, he was considered a top five pick last year (see ESPN player card below). Occasionally a player stays for reasons other than money. A good example is Joakim Noah, he actually would’ve been a top 3 pick after Florida’s first championship but went back to help them repeat and actually fell in the draft the next year.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2009&playerId=19213

He’ll definitely be better than Joe Smith. Besides Mikey P’s hypothetical was “had this year’s Griffin come out in previous lottery’s he would have been the #1 pick in most of them, and in the Top 3 in the others.”

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 11, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's better for the fans and the game of basketball if a player plays in College (or elsewhere) for at least a year.

The players typically learn more, develop physically, and get more playing time so that they are more NBA ready. It make the college game more interesting, and the top players that showcase and improve their skills at the college level give the weaker teams a better chance to improve with a more developed lotto pick. If Griffin went last year or the year before, what impact player would the Clippers be choosing this year?

by Jerdog on Jun 11, 2009 5:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Some truth to that

The biggest problem with the college game is are alot of these guys (especially the one and done guys) really “student-athletes”? The NCAA makes a ton of money off these kids and there are some valid concerns as to whether these players are even students. Really athletic scholarships should be given to students who would have made it through the school standard admissions guidelines. Its a pipedream with the dollars hanging in the balance but its kind of a joke to me when I hear big-time basketball and football schools brag about their teams when its not as if the school was able to recruit from their student body but essentially hired some mercenaries to claim some fleeting association with a winning team.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 11, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

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