Kaman for Mike Miller
by Qlippers on Jun 22, 2009 7:42 AM PDT
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According to the report, Minny offered Miller for Kaman. The deal was shot down and countered with Camby for Miller. Is Miller one of those "glue" guys we have been discussing over the summer? I like Mike miller as a good SF that could really help on this team on the offensive end. Salary wise, Camby and Miller match up. Share your thoughts
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I'm not sure I like this at all.
I think we could get more back for Kaman. I watched Miller a few times last season after he returned from his injuries and he looked poor.
Also, I’m not sure we need someone who needs the ball as much as Miller in order to be effective either. Baron and Eric will get their fair share of shots and the ball will be played into the paint for Kaman, ZBo, Griffin.
I’d rather get a guy who was more versatile and was a great defender who has limited but decent offensive skills.
Easier said than done though I suppose.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Please no....
I would much rather NOT have Miller for either Kaman or Camby. No need to panic and trade players just to trade them. The value of Camby will only go up as the trade deadline approaches midseason. And Kaman’s value can’t go down any further, can it? And Miller is definitely NOT a glue guy. I am sure there are better deals out there.
Do or do not. There is no try.
As of now, we have the upper hand when it comes to trading someone from our glut of bigs. No need to sell Kaman for so little. I watched about 5 games of Minnesota last year and Mike Miller was a lot worse than I remembered him being…
Stuck in limbo.
I liked Mike Miller
Before last year, although I liked Kaman before last year as well.
I have mixed feelings about this one.
Expanding on this...
Mike Miller can play the 3 or 4. He shoots well and in 2008 prior to injuries he was efficient.
Maybe they can throw in Foye since they were willing to do that for the #5 pick.
BD/MT
EJ/Foye/RD
MM/AT/RD/BG
ZBo/BG
KK/DJ
by Newton Pham on Jun 22, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
MIller
Used to be an efficient offensive player and a great shooter. He’s a good passer and rebounder as well. He’s not a great defensive player.
The problem is that Miller, like all of us, is getting older. He was horrible last year. Perhaps that was due to McHale deferring to the kiddies. Perhaps that was due to an offense that focused primarily on Jefferson, who can be a black hole (having said that, Miller didn’t really improve much after Jefferson went out), perhaps he was in a season-long shooting slump, I don’t know.
On balance, I’d much rather go younger.
No way they'd give up Foye
nor do the Clippers need him.
Miller, on the other hand, is a SF. And they Clippers need another one of those.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
"Miller, on the other hand, is a SF. And they Clippers need another one of those."
I agree. Miller could be what we are looking for, a good shooter who can rotate in with his polar opposite (Al Thornton) at the 3. The question is whether that’s enough value for Kaman— where I would say no. I like the idea of adding Miller, but I think this particular price is too steep.
by Michael White on Jun 22, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
The Clippers need players that can pass and shoot
Miller can do both. I believe we are all in love with the idea of Kaman 2.0…but he is rarely ever that. He continues to disappoint.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Just be patient..
We have a few months until the season starts to work out a trade, and I would much rather trade Randolph than Kaman or Camby. Even Kaman playing as badly as he has been, its not worth it for Mike Miller. Try to get Shane Battier somehow.
Kaman for Miller and one of their 3 first round picks
Seems fair.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Miller for Camby? Get outta here!
I’d definitely do the Miller for Kaman…. I don’t think Kaman has what it takes anymore, Camby has been a proven defensive big man for years ever since he was w/ the knicks.. Get rid of Kaman…worthless at this point!!!
by clippersnomatterwhat on Jun 22, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions
I actually think we hold all the cards here...
Centers with both size and skill are hard to come by and Kaman (when both healthy and motivated) can be a force. I would want value for him and acquiring Miller would be too much like what the Clips did last year—collecting a bunch of near stars who may be a little past their prime. I’d like to at least get an early first round pick (would the Thunder give up their first pick to get the center they desperately need?) or a near superstar in return. I’d love to get the Bobcat’s Gerald Wallace or Boris Diaw.
Why would we do Camby for Miller but not Kaman for Miller? Let’s get rid of Kaman’s horrible contract. At least Miller and Camby would be off the books next year.
Horrible contract?
Depends on who we get…if we get to see Kaman 2.0, his contract would be just about right. The problem was that he regressed… When Camby comes off the books, we’d have the same problem lots of teams have—we’d have no one to start at center or even a good center to come off the bench…
Why would we choose to trade Kaman over Camby?
Because Kaman is better than Camby. I realize that looking at contracts are important, but it should be a secondary concern— after evaluating which player is better at basketball. To me, Kaman is superior to Camby as I feel Camby’s defense is overrated and his offense has always been pretty poor.
by Michael White on Jun 22, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
personally I agree with you
that Kaman is a better player than Camby, but more importantly, Chris Kaman is actually a center; Marcus Camby is not. I think if we get rid of Kaman we would really be hurting in the middle. Kaman has a lot of flaws, everyone here can agree on that, but he has great size, blocks shots and rebounds the ball very well, and is at the very least, capable of being a potent scorer inside.
If we were to get a player like Mike Miller (and I would love to see us do that), I think he would benefit a lot more from having Kaman on the block, who routinely draws a double team. EJ and Miller could really spread the floor (both guys are capable of shooting 40% from three). Mike Miller isn’t the defensive stopper that a lot of us would like, but he could really help to open up the offense for the Clippers with his shooting and playmaking abilities. Plus I think he could play the 2 and the 3, giving MDSR some versatility with his lineups. Miller actually got some run as a point guard when he was in Memphis and did quite well there.
Best of all MM only has a year left on his deal, so its a low risk move. Maybe Minny wouldn’t be crazy about Miller for Camby, but as a Clipper fan I’d be all over it.
Camby is the better player
by far.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
I understand that argument...
I’m not saying youre wrong, just that I disagree. A lot of people are really hgh on Camby, and its understandable. He is a hardworking player (when he is on the court) The bigger point I was making is that Camby is not a true center, Kaman is.
Wow - I disagree strongly wtih that
Primarily because Kaman doesn’t seem to be able to focus. He is younger, though, and perhaps commands more on the open market.
I'd prefer to keep Kaman
but obviously if we can trade up into the lottery (like with Washington), I’d do it.
My concern is that I’m not sure yet DeAndre is starting center quality. While he did have a bunch of games where he dunked the ball 80 times, in terms of actual skill, I haven’t seen much. That worries me a little. The question is, if we trade Kaman and start Camby for next season, will DJ be ready to start after? Center is a tough position to fill.
Camby is an expiring contract and a very good vet…you’d think they could get a nice piece for him.
I think for now we should trade Kaman
I’m not sure he is motivated enough to become Kaman 2.0 again unless he is the center of the team like in 07-08. I am still for the Kaman for prince trade but I think a trade for a good backup point or SF would be good. Then if we wanted we could wait tell near the trade deadline to deal Camby who’s value will be very high then.
In Gordon we trust
What is Kaman doing this summer???
I’m sure he’s not working out, or working on his game.. I’m sure he’s fishing..
Trade him, if we can get something of value.
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
Everone is so quick to trade a STARTING center...
with no suggestions as to how to fill that spot. Look at the teams around the league. Look at the salaries of guys like Diop and Dampier. Look at Portland drafting Oden over Durant – It’s all because centers are that hard to find.
Kaman isn’t Dwight Howard, but he’s a very capable center. You don’t just trade guys like that on a whim w/o thinking about how that position will be filled in the years to come.
I hope...
by having a dominant PF like Blake, that he will become his old self, but he really needs to be on board with the rest of the team this summer, and get to the training facility, if he really wants to help this team win.
Otherwise, I don’t see how he helps the team, if he isn’t on the same page as everyone else. I’m getting tired of seeing him trying to pass out of double-teams, only to create a turnover. He needs to be in the gym NOW, working with Baron, Thornton, and DJ.
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jun 22, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
If he wanted to really be dominant he would be in the gym
by slacking off most of last season and so far all of this off season he has lost most of my faith. Like I said I just don’t think he feels like he has the motivation to play hard unless he is the star of the team which he won’t be.
In Gordon we trust
I don't see
Kaman is being star crazy. If anything, the pressures of filling the big shoes of Brand have weighed him down. Now that Kaman is no longer the focus, he can just get back to Kaman 2.0.
Kaman is ok
But he misses more games than he actually plays.
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
by cliptakular on Jun 22, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at the teams that win the Finals
Do they win because of their center? Rearely. Center is overrated. Having a good BIG is what matters, whether it is a PF or C.
And Kaman really isn’t that good. Can you really picture him on the frontline of a team that makes the Finals? Not right now.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Finals?
You mean the Magic and the Lakers? Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol?
You need a guy who can legitimately play center. Not just any PF. Gasol is unique in that he’s a full 7 ft tall and very talented. Even when Boston won, they needed Perkins to be a defensive presence.
You don’t need an All-Star center, but you definitely need a quality center. And quality centers aren’t easy to find. Which is why teams overpay for stiffs like Diop.
And get nowhere
How’s Dalembert working out? Oden?
I’d rather have a good basketball player than a 7 foot head case who only plays half the season.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Yes, of course Kaman could be on a team that makes the Finals
Switch Kaman with Bynum on the Lakers or with Ilgauskus on the Cavs, and you still have a team that can make the Finals. The salaries are comparable, and I’d argue that both of those teams would improve by adding Kaman. Going forward, Kaman just needs to rebound, play defense and serve as the 4th option on offense. He’s valuable as a complementary player on a team with Griffin, EJ and Baron.
I totally agree
Kaman can be a terrific complimentary player, rebounding, blocking shots, drawing double teams to open up shots from the perimeter. And as far as missing games goes, Camby has been far more injury prone in his career than Kaman, only going over 70 games 3 times in 13 years (his first ten years- 63,63,46, 59, 63, 29,29 72, 66,56…and only 62 again last season). Kaman has played limitied games the last 2 years, but he has shown signs of durability in his first 4 seasons, posting 82, 78, and 75 games seasons.
*SIGH*
To summarize:
1. Good centers are hard to find.
2. You can’t teach height.
3. Kaman is young, has good size, and is skilled for a big man.
4. Kaman is a lazy-ass bum who is likely spending the summer fishing instead of working on his game and/or his conditioning after a piss-poor showing this 2008-2009 season.
5. Camby gets a lot of rebounds and a fair share of blocks.
6. Camby is tall enough to be a center, but is too skinny and old to be THE man in the middle.
7. If we’re being honest, he does pad his stats a bit because of the way he plays…
8. The good news about Camby: someone will be in the market for his services come the trade deadline next season. As long as he’s not injured, we should be able to get rid of him then…but what are the odds he’ll be healthy?
9. The good news about Kaman…he’s capable of re-emerging as Kaman 2.0…hopefully even as a Kaman 3.0 (bigger, buffer, with more attitude and quick decision making. LOL)
10. The bad news about Kaman…he dogs it one more year, he’ll be as valuable in the market as Ricky F*cking Davis…
Kaman spent last summer playing basketball
In the Olympics. Kaman is a weird duck for sure but you still have to think he likes to play ball.
I think for better or worse we should keep Kaman. We’re not going to get much for him except a expiring contract and as everyone has astutely pointed out we have options next year at center unless DJ makes a HUGE leap in skill.
Camby is easier to move, can get back fair or better value and we’re likely to lose him next year anyways.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 23, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Have to Agree With Madglove
If we’re going to build a young team around Griffin and Gordon, we need a fairly young center to add to the recipe, which Kaman still is and Camby is not. I think Kaman is primarily valued for his defense and speed up and down the court, which I’ve often heard Dunleavy praise even when his offensive effort disappoints. With Griffin, Gordon and hopefully a rejuvenated Baron, they won’t really need much offense from him. Maybe a summer alone in the woods instead of summer camp with the German squad will clear his head. Maybe he actually was hurt most of last year. Maybe being the 4th option on offense instead of having the ball dumped down to him every play will take some of the pressure off. I don’t see DJ even approaching Kamen 1.0 yet. Unless something really good is available in trade I see no rush to ship him out as some sort of punishment.
by Clipster Hipster on Jun 22, 2009 11:27 PM PDT reply actions
NBA Finals
Talent and Height did enough to win a championship this year, why would the Clippers trade a big and not build upon the model of the world champion Lakers.
Kaman is to Center, as Bynum is to Center.
Marcus is to Center / Power Forward, as Gasol is to Center / Power Forward.
Lamar Odom is to Power Forward, as Zach Randolph is to Power Forward.
Deandre Jordan is to Center, as Mbenga / Powell is to Center.
Moving Kaman makes as much sense as moving Bynum, for Jason Kid.
Very flawed reasoning
You left out the Kobe Bryant part. Do the Clippers have one of those?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Kobe, Smobe...
As long as the Guards make up the +/- of Kobe’s number, it’s workable and a better kernel for success.
Tall order
With the exception of the 04 Pistons, every other champ has had an NBA superstar (and even then, they had Billups and the Wallaces, including DPOY Ben Wallace).
Anyway, this Clippers team is nothing like the Lakers, and looks nothing like a potential champion. Yet.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Sorry, but championship teams need go to scorers and leaders
Every championship team (except perhaps Detroit) has one. You can’t win just by moving players around like widgets.
Baron
At the end of the day, Baron needs to be Baron. If we can maintain this team and not move to and fro with the winds of change, this team has all the talent and redundancy to be Champs.
Very optimistic
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Kaman simply doesn't stay healthy enough long enough
for us to think he’s going to be our center going forward. I would not trade him for Mike Miller who has just as much chance as staying on the court in the future as Kaman does.
Kaman has too many variables
Which affect his game. He makes me nervous any time he’s out there and I’m sitting on the couch or in the stands. Imagine how teammates feel?
I can’t be at ease when he’s on the floor.
haha
so true
"This kid is the best new talent in the league right now, and I don't care who else you mention." -Suns Coach, Alvin Gentry, on Clippers rookie sensation, Eric Gordon.
by cliptakular on Jun 23, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeap, so forget the Kaman for Miller trade
I think Minny gets the number 5 pick too
Hmm maybe the Wiz will trade us Miller
They could use Camby, we could use a Miller type player. Maybe we can get the Wizards to accept Ricky Davis to save a few ducats. Works for me, Miller seems like a good guy as any to help spread the court with his shooting.
SG – EJ/Miller/Collins
PG – Baron/Taylor
C – Kaman/DJ/Zbo
PF – Zbo/Griffin
SF – Miller/Thornton/Collins
Solid 10 man rotation.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 23, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, the Wiz will keep Miller
They wanted a shooter and probably think their frontcourt is covered using a rotation of Jamison, Haywood and McGee.
i thought that
when a player is traded to another team, they can’t be traded for a certain amount of time?
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
They can't be repackaged and traded
But they can be traded alone.
See: Sheed from Atlanta
"So what are the odds that the Clippers can compete next season given their limited flexibility? Slim and none."
Sooooo was Foye really out of the question
After seeing today’s trade? Seems like less than what we could have offered.
Agree with the Wizards
Who can they get in this draft that is better than they have? Which player drafted at 3 will become the next Morrison?
Minny (and the Clips) come out on top
How much better will the Wiz really be with Miller and Foye? I don’t think this makes them contenders, and in that case it wasn’t worth giving up the pick. The #5 may not become a guaranteed star, but I would have much preferred Harden, Curry or Evans for a team that’s aging very quickly.
I do love what this trade does for the Clippers and for Minny. Minny won’t win much until these new draft picks get some experience so that 2012 Minny pick should stay in the lottery. But Minny wasn’t going to win much anyway, and now they get to start over while building around Jefferson, Love and 4 first rounders. That should at least be a more interesting team to watch than what they’ve had the last couple of years. If they can move up to get Rubio, they’ll be set.
foye is a servicable point guard and miller is a good 3 point shooter and passer. Defenitley worth #5 pick although foye was traded for brandon roy… lol
Foye and Miller combine didn't do it in Minnesota (and Jefferson)
But Foye and Miller combined with Jamison, Butler, and Areanas? Argue that Arenas is injury prone, but I deinitley have to say Foye is a comboguard capable of playing both the 1 and the 2.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
i say this too much but..
if they stay healthy, the wiz will be a dominant team this year
HUGE emphasis on “if”
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