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Around SBN: An Explanation For Some Of The Perplexing HOF Snubs

Dissecting the Zach Randolph to Memphis Rumors

Let me start by saying that I don't know anything specific about these rumors.  All I have to go on is logical thinking, common sense, and the public statements of MDsr, Neil Olshey and others. 

Having said that, something seems off with these rumors coming out of Memphis. 

To recap, there are two different stories coming from Memphis sports journalists involving a proposed draft day trade of Zach Randolph to the Grizzlies.  The accounts agree on some details, and disagree on others - some of which seem pretty significant.

Here's the basic breakdown:

  • Chris Vernon of radio station 730 Fox Sports in Memphis says that the Grizzlies offered Marko Jaric and Greg Buckner for Randolph but that Donald Sterling nixed the deal at the last minute.  He implies that the Clippers would have done the deal had Darko Milicic been in the package in place of Jaric.
  • Ronald Tillery of the Memphis Commercial Appeal has the deal as Milicic and Buckner for Randolph, but agrees on the detail of Sterling using his veto.

Star-divide

Problems. 

Jaric and Buckner for Randolph makes no sense.  Neither provides any more than bench depth on the perimeter, and are scarcely better than players that may be available to sign for the veterans minimum.  But the part that makes zero sense is that there's very little salary relief in the package - like Randolph, Jaric is signed thru 2011, and Buckner has a player option for 2011 which he is certain to exercise (although ShamSports actually has Buckner's deal as unguaranteed, so that would be nice).  At any rate, trying to get out of paying Zach Randolph $17M in 2011 (he did average 20 points and 10 rebounds after all), by paying Marko Jaric (who averaged 2.6 ppg last season) $7.6M in 2011 seems like a sucker bet. 

Certainly Darko plus Buckner makes sense for the Clippres from a salary cap standpoint, particularly if indeed Buckner's deal is unguaranteed.  But one Memphis guy is reporting confidently that Jaric was the deal-breaker, while a second is reporting just as confidently a deal without Jaric.  So they can't both be right.

It's also curious to note this line from Lisa Dillman's LA Times story this morning:

There is, however, a surprising amount of interest in forward Zach Randolph, massive contract and all, but the Clippers, at least for now, are maintaining they are reluctant to trade a player consistently capable of scoring 20 points and grabbing 10 rebounds per game.

In my book, the Grizzlies offering some combination of guys they have no interest in retaining would hardly qualify as 'a surprising amount of interest'.  Of course, it's entirely possible that Dillman is being spun by the Clippers (just as it's possible Vernon and Tillery are being spun by the Grizz), but something just isn't adding up here.

The bigger head-scratcher is the point on which the Memphis rumors agree - Sterling was the guy who killed the deal.

Now let's be clear.  I've been hyper-critical of Donald Sterling's tenure as owner on more than one occasion, and the reports of his meddling are legendary.  But does this even ring true?  MDsr, Olshey, Roeser - all they've said the dozens of times that they've been asked about big man trades since they won the lottery is that they're under no mandate to dump salary, and that they will only make a deal that makes basketball sense.  Now, I'm not naive enough to take that at full face value, but they've said it enough that I tend to believe them that at least they're not in the market for a straight salary dump - which is what the Milicic version of this rumor was (the Jaric version of this rumor was a non-starter on all levels as far as I'm concerned). 

But beyond that, why would Sterling, the famous penny-pincher, be the one to nix either deal?  Are we to believe that MDsr, Olshey and Roeser all signed off on major cost savings, and Sterling was the one who said no?  Like I said, he's a pretty notorious meddler, but that Milicic deal stood to save him almost $26M and would have put the Clippers into position to be major free agency players in 2010.  Why would he veto it if the basketball folks were good with it? 

At the end of the day, let me repeat that I have no idea what happened here.  If Milicic/Buckner was indeed offered, that's a deal you take, so it would be unfortunate if Sterling stuck his nose into that one.  In that sense, Vernon's version of events makes more logical sense to me than Tillery's - but as always, you have to take these reports with a grain of salt, as they obviously can't both be right, and likely neither has all the details.

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Memphis seems to be the ultimate destination of all chubby, headband wearing, former Blazers with character issues.

And by all, I mean both Zach Randolph and Bonzi Wells.

by Michael White on Jun 26, 2009 9:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Darius Miles...

He got chubby. Did he wear a headband?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 26, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

ThiS rumor doesn't make sense

I can’t see sterling passing up on savings

by Qlippers on Jun 26, 2009 9:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Okay

usually I’m one to agre that we MIGHT have to trade a big man, but that trade was ridiculous. The Clippers even considering that deals makes me completely disappointed. Surely Jax, you have to agree that Randolph is worth more than any of those deals? (Just wanted to call you out a bit because I think you really seem to not want Randolph.)

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 26, 2009 11:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Si, Si

I don’t think we want Marko Lima back anyways.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 28, 2009 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

You mean Adriana

and not Marko right? If so, I would too. :)

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 29, 2009 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

perfect

there’s too much love for zeebo’s empty 20-10. the emphasis is not on randolph’s production, but what playing randolph tells youngsters like jordan and griffin. playing randolph tells the kids that scoring and numbers will get them dollars and pt. playing randolph tells the kids that defensive effort, sharing the ball, and playing in the post is great, but jacking up three pointers, being a black hole and another kind of hole is also acceptable. randolph sets a bad example, and it’s possible his presence is enough of a downer for the kids who expect their hard work to be rewarded with playing time.

by heropretend on Jun 26, 2009 11:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Please don't throw in you conclusions

of what Randolph tells the guys. Just because Randolph isn’t a great defender does not mean that he is encouraging our younger players to preform a poorer effort to it.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 26, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

uhm

that was an incorrect use of the word tell. i meant leading by example by not defending well and ball hogging.

by heropretend on Jun 27, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Randolph is deffinately worth more than jaric and buckner. ZBO is our new maggette who rebounds. let it marinate. Regardless of what were paying him, i think he can be A new prototypical 6 man.

by bigolbad on Jun 26, 2009 11:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Nah

Maggette and ZBo is TOO different. Maggete was great with getting to the line. Zbo is a lowpost machine, and a decent shooter. In between good and bad.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 26, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Testing the waters

Seems like a case of Memphis trying to take Randolph for about half his salary.

by ghost_ride on Jun 27, 2009 12:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Randolph gets too much flack for someone who puts up the numbers he does.

Pick on Kaman or Baron. If everyone copies Zach’s “influence” and becomes a 20-10 guy, I can live with that. He also has got pretty good hands and cn pass the ball out of the double team. Can Kaman?

by Jerdog on Jun 27, 2009 12:07 AM PDT reply actions  

it's prejudice against a guy

that was investigated in night club shootings, sucker punched a teammate and hid out at dale davis’s house because he was afraid ruben patterson would shoot him, went to a strip club after requesting time off for a family member’s death, known felons are shown during zach’s mtv cribs episode so cops studied the episode, arrested on driving while smoking dope, and arrested as a clipper while drunk driving.

by heropretend on Jun 27, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

monster

this guy has a monster of a rap sheet and while he is usually guilty by association i would not be too happy to see blake griffin or deandre jordan or ej get into any off court trouble like this.

besides, we simply don’t need zach’s 20-10 when we can get dj’s 2 blks or get blake on the floor for 20-13.

by heropretend on Jun 27, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

and he shoots the 3 better than baron.

This rumor though doesn’t make sense. So you are telling me that the team that dumped pau gasol who makes barely more than zach, is going to then take zach’s contract?

I like zach a lot, but he is not pau gasol.

by hans007 on Jun 27, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

career 29% 3ptshooter. baron is 32%.

by heropretend on Jun 27, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

well i meant just last year as a clipper. zach wasnt exactly given the green light to fire up 3s until last year.

and he made 34% to barons 30% .

I think baron probably is a better shooter in the same situation though. Baron’s problem is more shot selection than actually shooting. zach generally doesnt randomly pull up for a 3 unless he is fairly open.

still 30% 3s from baron no matter what is unacceptable even if it is just from shot selection.

by hans007 on Jun 28, 2009 3:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds strange

that Sterling nixed a deal that could’ve saved him quite some money while also freeing up more minutes for Griffin at the 4 spot.

Though, i think we might hear more of those Zach to Memphis rumors during the summer.
I believe they’re under the cap and maybe something like Zach for Q-Rich(who could help some at the 3 spot) could be worked out.

by Silvio on Jun 27, 2009 3:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Q Rich back in LA

They have to throw in D Miles, too.

by Qlippers on Jun 27, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Zach is a good bargain.

30% of Zach’s salary is deferred, so annual operational cost would be less with Zach than another player with an equal value contract.

by sqrebck on Jun 28, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

2208/2009

Zach is listed to make 14,666,666 this year.
The Clippers will need to pay 10,266,666.20 in salary this year and 4,399,999.80 in 2015. Either Stirling is planning to sell the team by then, Die, or return to old habits of taking the minimum contracts to be profitable.

Zach has recently agreed to a six-year, $84 million contract extension with the Trail Blazers. Paying Randolph the $84 million was a big concession for the Blazers, who on Oct. 29 were offering $72 million. However, the Blazers are deferring 30 percent of his contract ($25 million), which will be paid out over six years beginning in 2012, ESPN Insider Chad Ford reports.

by sqrebck on Jun 29, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do we maybe value Z-Bo too much?

I so often read comments like, “Zach is worth more than that” or “A 20-10 guy is hard to find”. But could we be over valuing him? I think it’s absolutely true that we had a better record when Zach was on the court, but we still weren’t a winning team. The last two times Zach has been traded the reasons were to 1) simply get him away, and 2) get him off the books. What did he do as a Clipper that would lead GMs to believe he increased his value beyond that? Especially in this economy.

I don’t want Zach to just go away (as Portland did), but if we’re able to relieve a fraction of his cap space for 2010, I’m pulling the trigger. I don’t think any of us believe Zach is a part of our future. We should value him as if he is.

by hip2clip on Jun 27, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions  

The 10 rebs are clouding your judgement....

Randolph has character issues on a young team. He’s a loser. Having Camby and/or Kaman is fine with me, because they’re both similar in key areas: both injury prone, both can score 10-13 pts per game realiably, both can rebound and both are good off-the-ball defenders. Randolph can rebound and score but those are easily replaceable. People have to understand that Zach is considered untradeable for a reason. This is the only fanbase in the NBA that would make excuses for Randolph.

The Mobley/Thomas trade was awful. It was just Mike Dunleavy trying to save his job. Whatever he was trying though, it didn’t work. 19 wins doesn’t save anything. But since Donald Sterling is such a fool (and a cheap fool at that) we have to suffer through Dunleavy’s incompetence for at least one more year. I will take Jaric/Milicic and Buckner talent, just not the years they have left. Dunleavy is a terrible GM, which is why what we get in return will be nothing we want. I’d be satisfied with a lineup of Davis, Gordon, Thornton, Griffin, Kaman with Camby off the bench. Randolph should be traded for some backup talent (Jaric/Milicic & Buckner-type talent maybe?). Everyone around the league thinks our team is loaded with talent. The problem is the people who don’t even play. Dumbleavy. Sterling. The organization as a whole. A team this stacked with quality guys under 30 won’t respond to Mike Dunleavy, I promise you. He’s the problem here, even more than Zach.

by Jordinho on Jun 27, 2009 5:13 PM PDT reply actions  

"This is the only fanbase in the NBA that would make excuses for Randolph."

You are exactly right. I’m tired of meritocracy or less (often much less). I’d love to make the playoffs this year, but I’d really love to free up enough cap space to sign a max contract in 2010. This trade would have done just that. Sterling is the problem. Dunleavy is the problem. The fans are the problem for making excuses for these two idiots that run this organization.

Trust me, every NBA fan that has read this article is laughing and thinking “it’s the Clippers”. Please don’t encourage it.

by hip2clip on Jun 27, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Randoph is considered untradeable because of his contract.

by andrewexd on Jun 28, 2009 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

its only a 2 year deal. I think its mostly his bad rep honestly.

a 2 year 32 million or so deal fora 20-10 guy is not bad at all. that he can hit the 3 now doesnt hurt either.

I think honestly the last 2 years his rep has been undeserved. he didnt get into any trouble in ny. and the DUI here was overturned even.

by hans007 on Jun 28, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was it now.?

How so? Did they find that he wasn’t drunk enough to be charged with a DUI or what? ( I actually didn’t hear about his DUI being overturned, nor did I even know it was possible to overturn one…)

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 28, 2009 4:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

i mean if david wesley can have a good “rep” after wrecklessly driving which led to bobby phils dying, i think a rejected DUI for randolph we can dismiss as well.

by hans007 on Jun 28, 2009 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Uh...

Nobody’s paying Wes 32 mil over 2…

by Jordinho on Jun 28, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Intresting

never knew Randolph was uncharged of his DUI. I always thought you had to take a breath test to determine whether or not you were drunk or not.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 29, 2009 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Listen...

From outside Clipperland this is what the situation looks like: the stupid Clippers org is finally trying to get rid of losers, and just when the worst GM in the NBA (tied for 1st with MIN’s David Kahn), wants to acquire said big time loser, Donald Sterling of all people nixes it! That was our best chance to get rid of him. Chris Wallace is an idiot. If Zach is untradeable and only Chris Wallace wants him, shouldn’t Sterling be able to decipher what this means? He’s a terrible asset. Get rid of him as soon as possible!

by Jordinho on Jun 28, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would hold out for a better deal

I think one will present itself.

That being said, Jaric would be ok at the 3 spot. He gets into the passing lanes pretty well and gets his share of deflections, something we all know MDSr. values.

Don’t know much about Buckner.

Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

by mikey p on Jun 27, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Well

what are going to do with Jaric and Buckner? Would you take Jaric or Jones? Jaric is probably a bit better passer, but I just hate the guy. Jone’s flat out won my respect.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 28, 2009 4:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jones easily

Jones is more versatile and a better scorer, and he works hard which I respect.

In Gordon we trust

by bestclipfan on Jun 28, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

trade

that would be one dumb trade

by wopp22 on Jun 27, 2009 10:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Quick update...

Eric Pincus tweeted that the Milicic version of the trade was never offered. That makes sense. So essentially, the Chris Vernon version of the story is the more accurate. I don’t think that (Buckner and Jaric) was a good trade. That’s my opinion.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 28, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

To be clear

What I was told was that the Mlicic trade was on the table and that DTS vetoed it, which could, I suppose not be inconsistent with arguing that it was “never offfered” (if all parties understood that the offer was contingent on a DTS agreement)

by Jax on Jun 28, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dunno

Here are the Tweets from Pincus: “grizz didn’t offer darko – it was jaric and buckner” and “Also, Clips didn’t turn down Darko for Randolph. They turned down Jaric. Still dumb.”

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 28, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

So - Pincus thinks they should dump Zbo at all costs?

Seems as though Clipper people are telling people different things.

by Jax on Jun 28, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Pincus seems to think the Jaric deal should have been done. I disagree, but that’s based on the assumption that they can do better. The Buckner/Jaric deal was salary dump talent coming back (i.e. neither guy figures into the teams plans even in the best case scenario) without the salary dump (Jaric will still make $7M+ until 2011). I figure that they can either get a full salary dump or get at least a prospect back. But only time will tell if that is true.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 29, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Certainly makes it less appealing.

I still would have considered it, yet I would be reluctant. I’d want more cap relief for 2010.

by hip2clip on Jun 28, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you can read, read this!

Moments ago, we created a special website for all Clipper fans to get together, and discuss the Los Angeles Clippers, and the rest of the NBA. Please check us out at http://www.LetsGoClippers.com and invite all your friends over!

by LetsGoClippers on Jul 6, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions  

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