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Is Blake Griffin a Sure Thing?

OK, I'm not going to come right out and say it.  The ClipperSteve reverse mojo may or may not carry over to this guy Perrin, and I've been wrong many, many times.  But be warned; even if I don't say it outright, I'm going to imply the hell out of it.

Lots of people, including myself, have gone out of their way to point out that some first overall picks have gone on to less than outstanding pro careers.  The name Michael Olowokandi is enough for most Clipper fans, be let's not forget Kwame Brown and Pervis Ellison and Joe Smith.  But with all due respect to those guys, Blake Griffin is different.

There are two things you can do to really get yourself noticed in the NBA draft.  You can be an impossibly gifted physical specimen, such that NBA scouts fall in love with your potential.  Olowokandi (who was ridiculously long) and Brown (still an impressive combination of size and athleticism) certainly fall into this category, and the high lottery is strewn with these kinds of players - a guy like Stromile Swift was drafted third overall on athleticism alone.  Or you can be extremely accomplished and successful at the highest levels of non-professional basketball.  While it's rare that a player would be drafted first overall based on their college numbers alone, players like Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner managed to make it into the top three despite the fact that most everyone knew they weren't really athletic enough to be superstars in the NBA and there are myriad other lottery picks who were great college players but terrible pros, for what turned out to be obvious reasons in hindsight.

Star-divide

But a prototypical NBA physical specimen AND incredibly accomplished on the court?  That's a much smaller subset.  Here are some statistics from the final college season for a well known NBA player :  14.7 rebounds per game and 20.8 points per game on 60.8% shooting.  Who put up such gaudy college numbers?  Tim Duncan, the college player of the year and first overall pick in the draft in 1997.  Shaquille O'Neal put up 14 rebounds and 24.1 points on 61.5% shooting his final season at LSU before becoming the first overall pick.  Frankly, these are the only college seasons I have found that can compare with Blake Griffin's own college player of the year campaign - 14.4 rebounds, 22.7 points, and an other worldly 65.4% shooting. Blake Griffin had 30 double doubles last season at Oklahoma, second in the NCAA all time to another first overall pick, David Robinson.

I've heard Kenyon Martin cited as a possible worst case for Griffin.  You can see why people would make the comparison - Martin was college player of the year, he was the first overall pick, he was strong and very athletic for his size.  But Martin's numbers at Cincy (18.9 and 9.7 as a senior) simply don't hold a candle to Griffin's stats.  (And by the way, KMart is hardly a slouch as a pro, and that's after a series of injuries - he made an all star game before microfracture surgery.)

There have been myriad stories in the national press before and after the draft about how the Clippers will somehow cause Griffin to fail.  The 'logic' of these articles, if you can call it that, is that the Clippers other first overall picks were somehow wanting.  But frankly, Blake Griffin is not Michael Olowokandi.  As for Danny Manning, the guy tore his ACL after 26 NBA games, and STILL went on to lead the Clippers to back-to-back playoff appearances AND make two all star teams.  So if the reasoning here is that Griffin will surely get injured because Manning got injured, and after all, the Clippers are cursed, then I'd suggest that the sports writers who subscribe to that theory should probably be writing horoscopes instead.  I mean, no one predicts that Celtics picks will die because of Len Bias, do they?

On the other end of the spectrum, Kevin Hench of FoxSports.com is predicting that Griffin will turn the Clippers into a contender, and he's got some data to back it up.  His reasoning is as follows:

Since the draft lottery was introduced in 1985 there have been seven drafts where there was no doubt, no debate, no dissent about who should be the No. 1 pick. Those picks were Patrick Ewing ('85), David Robinson ('87), Danny Manning ('88), Shaquille O'Neal ('92), Duncan ('97), Yao ('02) and LeBron James ('03).

Blake Griffin goes into that category, with arguably as big a gap between him and No. 2 as anyone.

So in drafts where there was a clear-cut, lock No. 1, how did those teams make out?

Well, they all got better. A lot better. Fast.

Hench is arguing that a consensus number one picks ALWAY become stars and ALWAYS help their team.  Of course, there's a first time for everything, but I like his use of historical data.  Now, there are two parts to the consensus equation - one is the player being picked, and one is everyone else in the draft.  It's possible that a player could be consensus simply by virtue of the rest of the draft being so weak.  And if ever that was the case, this year might be it - but it's not.  Griffin is definitely a worthy first overall pick based on his college career and his physical ability - this is no first overall by default situation.

Looking at Hench's list of consensus picks since 85 (Ewing, Robinson, Manning, Shaq, Duncan, Yao, LeBron) it's an impressive group.  All of them except Manning were first team All Pro in their careers, and four of them have won an MVP award.  So based on the precedent it would seem that there's a good chance that Griffin is going to have a stellar career, assuming he can avoid injury. 

But you don't even have to limit the conversation to consensus picks.  The truth of the matter is, the majority of number one overall picks turn into great pros.  For the first 20 drafts of the lottery era, from Patrick Ewiing in 1985 to Dwight Howard in 2004, 16 of them made an All Star team.  That's 80%, even without taking into consideration Griffin's singularity in this draft.  You know why people always talk about Olowokandi and Kwame and Joe Smith and Pervis Ellison?  Because they're so bloody unusual.  First overall picks are supposed to be great, and about 80% of the time they are. (Someone's going to point out that none of the first overalls since Howard have made an all star team, and that is certainly true - but that's at least partially due to the fact that they haven't been in the league very long.  Still, I'll admit that Bargnani, and possibly Bogut, have a chance to join the list of disappointments taken first.)

The Clippers introduced Blake Griffin at a press conference today.  The team is beginning to practice for summer league, which is only two weeks away.  There's alot of excitement surrounding the team.  And well there should be.  History says that Blake Griffin is going to be great.

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Wow that was fast to point out

Bargani. I think Bargani is going to be decent.. 4th pick decent.

I’ve noticed that I cant draw up any debate with your articles. Anyways Steve, quick question

As of now, roster as is, what is YOUR starting lineup going to look like? Not halfway into the season, right now.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 29, 2009 11:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Right now...

Without any trades…
PG – Baron
SG – EJ
SF – Mardy
PF – Zach
C – Camby

I could just as easily start Griffin/Kaman at the four five – but I like those pairings (Griffin playing with Kaman, Zach playing with Camby). A pairing of Griffin with Camby would be a little offensively challenged until Griffin develops the jumper.

The second unit front line of Thornton/Griffin/Kaman would be the best second unit front line in the NBA – if the second unit guards can just get the ball up the court.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

The second unit guards

Mike Taylor and…who? Ricky Davis?

Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

by mikey p on Jun 30, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hopefully

we re-sign fred jones.

http://lucasnbablog.blogspot.com/

by LJ Hann on Jun 30, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Free agency starts tomorrow

So stay tuned.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hm..

So you have Randolph starting? Are you going to have Randolph starting throughout the season? I personally might start Randolph for, I dont know the first 10 games and switch to Blake when I feel he’s ready.

As for Mardy.. Intresting substitute… Not my initial prediction from you Steve.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nice S/L

That implied 2nd unit would also be interesting. Mike Taylor, (SG-X), Thornton, Griffin, Kaman. I doubt Griffin would be pleased to see Thornton jacking up the majority of the shots…

by ghost_ride on Jun 30, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll be disappointed

if he’s not at LEAST as good as Carlos Boozer. I fully expect him to lead the league in rebounding one year (yes, even with D Howard around). I think he’ll be a 25-12 player for many years, just like the Mail Man.

We can be scary good in 2-3 years if we maximize those future picks we will get.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Prepare yourself for dissapointment...

He’s probably not ever going to be ahead of DHoward in rebounds. He will be a decent rebounder, hopefully in the 9-10 range but he’s not long enough at the pro level.

I expect Blake to be a 20-10 guy with Shane Battier intangibles.

by Newton Pham on Jun 30, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

That one I feel pretty confident about...

If he’s not a top 5 rebounder in the NBA within 3 seasons, I’ll be surprised/disappointed. Rebounding is the one thing that pretty consistently translates from college to the NBA. He’s not crazy long, but he’s crazy strong, crazy athletic, and goes after every rebound. If his length was a major drawback, he wouldn’t have gotten 14 per in the Big 12. Dude will rebound.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree there

I’m not worried about the length, but I am interested to see if it makes any difference in his case. He’ll be going up against some long PF’s.

Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

by mikey p on Jun 30, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Top 5 in rebounds..

Possibly, but not outrebounding Dwight.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Barkley, Rodman?

They were both great rebounders, think Blake can overcome the lenght issue with strength and intensity. Rebounding translates really well to the pros, it’s something you have or don’t have.

by ghost_ride on Jun 30, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am always afraid he ends up being a kenyon martin.

Kenyon martin was far and away the best player in the 2000 draft (which was also a horrible draft, probabl y the worst one in the last 10 years) . jerome moiso was #11 for god sakes.

Now its tough to say if kenyon martin was goin gto be any good even before th eknee injuries, but I think the “low” possibility for blake is kenyon martin.

Blake is way more athletic than karl malone or boozer, so I have no idea how high his potential is. But I’d say at least as good as that would be my “best case”

by hans007 on Jun 30, 2009 6:25 AM PDT reply actions  

another thing to note about the 2000 draft, is kenyon martin probably ended up with the 2nd best career in that draft after michael redd who went in the 30s. I mean most of the guys in these 2 rounds are out of the nba , and only 3 made the all star team (and one was jamal magloire’s , all the centers in the east suck selection)

by hans007 on Jun 30, 2009 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Um well

I guess Draft Central had a pretty accurate description:
A younger Antonio McDyss. It’s not who I completely want him to be compared as, but it seems one of the more accurate compared to Karl Malone.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

McDyess

Pre-knee injuries, McDyess was a stud. The current McDyess is a midrange machine. Not BG at all.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess so

but wasn’t a younger McDyess mostly scoring inside rather han the current “midrange machine?”

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to Dunleavy...

…in the paper this morning Dunleavy is quoted as saying Griffin is a cross between Tim Duncan and Charles Barkley, so you’re Duncan comparison is apparently pretty accurate.

by Clipster Hipster on Jun 30, 2009 6:55 AM PDT reply actions  

More athletic, less long

I like the Duncan comparison for a few reasons. They’re both guys that were
a) truly dominant college players – simply the best;
b) incredible NBA bodies from a physical standpoint – Duncan because of his insane length, Griffin because of his insane athleticism;
c) great work ethics.

Now, Duncan is probably the best power forward in NBA history, so let’s not necessarily hold Blake to that standard. He’ll have to develop that consistent midrange shot obviously, but the key may be the work ethic.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Duncan's fundamentals were very strong coming out of college

It helped that he stayed four years. Not sure Griffin is all that fundamentally sound. Yet.

Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

by mikey p on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's too much for now

Duncan has great post moves. Griffin is great downlow, but I don’t think his post move is the reason.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maurice Stokes 22 and 24 for his college career !!

In 1958, Maurice Stokes was an up-and-coming basketball superstar and one of the first players in history to combine great speed with exceptional size and strength. Following a brilliant career at St. Francis (PA) College where he averaged 22 points and 24 rebounds per game, Stokes was the second overall pick of the Rochester Royals in the 1955 NBA Draft. Stokes’ impact on the league was immediate as he took home NBA Rookie of the Year honors in 1956. In only his second season of pro ball, the 6-foot-7, 235-pound forward broke the NBA’s single-season record for rebounds with 1,256.

Unfortunately we know the rest of the story.

by 69knicks on Jun 30, 2009 7:24 AM PDT reply actions  

I´m OK with been cautious and slowing the hype, but this is a little too much…

by edu_argentina on Jun 30, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

A terrible, irrelevant post...

What’s your point? Fortunately most people DON’T know who Maurice Stokes was.

by John Raffo on Jun 30, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Steve wrote

Frankly, these are the only college seasons I have found that can compare with Blake Griffin’s own college player of the year campaign -

I just was pointing out there was another freakish athlete that came out of a small school in PA. with unbelievable numbers for a 4 year career not just a season.

Nothing more.

 I guess in hindsight I should have left the last sentence out . It was not my intent to be morbid or infer anything dark.

I apologize if I offended anyone.

by 69knicks on Jun 30, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I wasn’t sure what to do with that one….

There are probably other comparable college seasons out there… but comparing the 50s to today, and or comparing St. Francis to the Big 12, is probably not worthwhile.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I wasn't offended

Its just jarring to think of young Griffin in those terms before breakfast.

by John R on Jun 30, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Apology accepted...

Really hit me the wrong way. That said, if you don’t know who Maurice Stokes is, Wikipedia him. I only remember him through his relationship with Jack Twyman (another guy we’ve forgotten)… they were both memorable.

by John Raffo on Jun 30, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks Swami

I went to the same college that Stokes attended. So I have known about him for awhile.
My dad was there when Stokes played.
He said he was an unbelievable player and and incredibly nice guy.

BTW after Stokes illness the Royals drafted Oscar Robertson. I think those two would have made some noise together

by 69knicks on Jun 30, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's a bit dark, even for my taste

In the Tibetan philosophy, Sylvia Plath sense of the word, we’re all dying.

by John R on Jun 30, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey...

when did I get replaced on the sig line?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

It confused someone

And I recognized that “Slim” actually happened so you probably off the hook anyway. And THAT quote was just in response to the above.

by John R on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I´m OK with been cautious and slowing the hype, but this is a little too much…

by edu_argentina on Jun 30, 2009 8:09 AM PDT reply actions  

The best comparison for Blake Griffin I can think of...

Is indeed partially KMart….but….more of a hybrid…

KMart + Shane Battier hybrid.

Athleticism of KMart with tenacity and intangibles of Battier.

by Newton Pham on Jun 30, 2009 9:17 AM PDT reply actions  

and it's not additive...

it’s exponential….

meaning this forms a player leaps and bounds above both those guys.

by Newton Pham on Jun 30, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

yo clippers fans!

Moments ago, we created a special website for all Clipper fans to get together, and discuss the Los Angeles Clippers, and the rest of the NBA. Please check us out at http://www.LetsGoClippers.com and invite all your friends over!

by LetsGoClippers on Jul 6, 2009 12:45 PM PDT reply actions  

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