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Around SBN: Dog Football! Which Breeds Are Best Suited For The Gridiron?

A positively brilliant post from Kevin at Clipperblog. Read it immediately. Of note also is Kevin's singling out of a Citizen Zhiv comment defining MDsr's organizing principals - well played Zhiv.

over 2 years ago Clipsnation_tiny Steve Perrin 12 comments 0 recs  | 

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A bit hard to find: shake things up!

The “building blocks” approach:

“But he’s also not factoring the way that Dunleavy’s stubborn approach is alienating the players and it’s a significant factor in them failing to play their best. I’m not a Dunleavy hater and I try not to be a Dunleavy apologist. He can be maddening at times, and I hate the way that he seems to have double standards. He always seems to be taking a "building blocks" approach, starting with defense and working matchups. That approach can be quite effective when you’ve got a healthy roster and you’re competing in the playoffs, when good, disciplined teams are battling against one another. But Dunleavy’s situation for the last three years has been just the opposite. He’s had hobbled, undermanned teams that are missing key parts, and he has never even begun to try to shake things up, even in the most desperate situations, to figure out ways to shake things up and foster creativity and energy. He’s always forced into moves that seem fairly obvious.”

The best thing about this minor bit of zhivdom is that it contains a terrible error: “…and he has never even begun to shake things up, even in the most desperate situations, to figure out ways to shake things up and foster creativity and energy.”

Hey Dunleavy! Shake things up!

by citizen zhiv on Jun 29, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Does bringing in Zach Randolph qualify as shaking things up?

Or are you only looking for an on-court coaching maneuever?
I really don’t know the answer, but you could definitely qualify the ZBo move as “shaking things up” Of course to most of us it just seems a desperation move… one that might not have happened had Dunleavy not been both coach and gm.

by John Raffo on Jun 29, 2009 3:25 PM PDT reply actions  

What is the difference between “shaking things up” and a desperation move. Couldn’t the only difference be in hindsight? If something is succesful then “the Clippers succesfully shaked things up.” If not, it was a desperate move and a last stich attempt to try and win some basketball games.

by Michael White on Jun 29, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, doesn't qualify

It kind of gets you off the track of the “building blocks” concept, which is about how MDSr uses the guys on his roster. No matter who is available, he’s always going to take the same conservative, play defense/exploit matchups approach.

The best way to look at it is his reactions to his adverse fortunes last year. The first problem was that Marcus Camby wasn’t available. He was just beginning to evaluate DeAndre Jordan. He brought back Paul Davis (mistake—and taking Davis3 over Milsap turns out to be almost as bad a draft faux pas as Korolev over Granger). Tim Thomas and Baron Davis got hurt. Now his lineup is Kaman-Skinner/Davis3/Novak-Thornton/Davis2-Mobley/Gordon-BDavis/Mike Taylor/Jason Hart. We know now, after the fact, that the best version of that team is Kaman/DJordan-Skinner/Novak-Thornton-Gordon-BDavis. MDSr should have had a really short tryout for Davis3, Davis2, Hart, and TThomas returning from injury, and Mobley (MDSr’s beloved blanket) needed to come off the bench in the Thornton-Gordon rotation. And without Camby and a solid defensive scheme coming out of training camp and preseason, MDSr should have given BDavis his chance to play with reckless abandon (made problematic by the fact that BDavis was hurt), and tried running with Mike Taylor. But this is all clear only now that the season played itself out so horribly. Where MDSr went wrong was overplaying Tim Thomas until the trade, along with Mobley (to a certain degree) and Davis3, but the real culprit was Ricky Davis2, who absolutely killed the team every single game. Add to that not playing Novak, not using Skinner correctly, and worrying too much about defense and not putting a credible offensive team out on the floor. Davis2, Thomas, Mobley, and BDavis and Kaman/Camby and other unimaginative MDSr. combinations sent the team on long, torturous scoring droughts, while two of the best shooters in the league sat on the bench, and Jason Hart relieved Baron Davis. Hart got pulled quickly for Taylor, to MDSr’s credit, but we never got close to a glimpse of Camby-Novak-Mobley-Gordon-BDavis, with Thornton coming off the bench, for instance.

I’ve been relatively supportive at times of the Zach Randolph trade, but in this context it looks perhaps especially desperate and misguided. It was a direct result of conservative “building blocks,” and most importantly a failure to explore options that existed within the roster. Is anybody besides me realizing right now that Mobley was the “glue guy” on the Clippers roster, a viable option as the starting SF alongside Gordon? Hard to conceive when Thornton had such a promising rookie season, but those are the types of things that you have to try when you have injuries and are getting off to a slow start. And if you handle Thornton correctly, he cuts down on his shortcomings and has a better season. He rebounds better, for instance, coming off the bench.

The same story can be told, with similar miscues, after the trade for Randlolph. Say that the trade was a good idea, or just neutral, for a second. It certainly wasn’t imaginative use of the roster and playing different styles to suit your talent and player performance, shaking up what you have, but take it as a given, a shake up from on high. MDSr still didn’t make the proper adjustments. He continued to give Davis2 opportunities. Novak sat for more weeks. The Clips showed signs of life when ZBo arrived, as Camby started playing well, and Gordon was showing his first signs of true excellence. But Davis2 was still getting opportunities, and Kaman got hurt, then Taylor. The Clips play .500 ball for a couple of weeks, but then the wheels come off. MDSr still wasn’t playing Novak, and DJordan hadn’t made any notable appearances. This was Davis2’s final stand, something that should have never happened in the first place, but should have ended much earlier. When Kaman gets hurt you play DJordan, you start playing him a lot, because your team is going in the tank or hanging by a thread at best, and you have to try everything. You’re seeing good things with Gordon playing, and you don’t know what DJordan might do if he’s in the rotation. And Novak should have been in the rotation and seeing big minutes since the first week of the season, but now, at 30-35 losses and rising, he starts to get some minutes.

Gotta go, but you get the point.

by citizen zhiv on Jun 29, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's some real excellent stuff in here...

…and I definitely get the point. I have to admit, the Arnovitz post is interesting but I can’t entirely subscribe to the Hedgehog/Fox dynamic. I think you can argue your way to both positions on a lot of players. And I guess it’s just too abstract for my tiny brain. But interesting things are borne from it, including the “shake up” thing:
Maybe other people saw it but it hadn’t at all occurred to me that Cuttino Mobley was the Clippers’ “glue guy”, though now it seems obvious. He’s a savvy vet who played superior defense and was a solid team player on the offensive end… he’s also both a “Dunleavy guy” and a well-liked teammate… a good locker room guy. He might have been the critical link between a Baron Davis (and his bruised ego) and an inflexible, increasingly alienated Dunleavy. His presence might only have helped Eric Gordon, your beloved DeAndre, the other young Clips. I suspect he might have also been willing to give up his starting role, if your point of view is that he clogged the way for Eric Gordon’s ascension.
The tragedy of the ZBo trade might not at all have been the acquisition of Zach and his baggage but the banishment of the Clips glue guy! A very worthy piece of analysis (that probably deserves a post of its own). I, for one, would love to hear more Zhivian discourse on the issue.

by John Raffo on Jun 29, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mobley was definitely the “glue guy”

'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!

by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jun 29, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting Zhiv

I would just quibble with a couple of points. First, the iso offense and reactive matchup approach to coaching isn’t really “conservative.” It’s just poor coaching. Which is the backdrop for the poor coaching decisions you detailed later on in your post.

Second, IMO the despearation in the Zbo choice was fueled as much by MDSr’s defensive reaction to criticism over the EB debacle as anything else. And for that we got stuck with a huge tab.

I’m not an MDSr hater either. I just don’t think he is likely to help the team produce more wins. Of course this has been said before and seems tired at this point. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

by Jax on Jun 29, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would reccomed reading Kevin's report of the press conference

http://clipperblog.com/2009/06/29/the-new-guyand-the-old-new-guy/
it seems Gordon is already getting along great with Griffin and are one step closer to forming the next Stockton and Malone combo that propels us to the top. Also Gordon seems to be coming out of his shell a lot which will help him become a leader on this team with Griffin.

In Gordon we trust

by bestclipfan on Jun 29, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Philosophilcal but Fuzzy

This is excellent, entertaining writing, KA at his finest, but I’m not sure the black and white classifications work for me. Let me share some brain fuzz.

Baron is a hedgehog because to be successful, he requires a frenetic style of play that allows him to spontaneously react to the situation.

Novak is a fox because no matter the style of play, he can successfully do the one thing he’s good at, long distance shooting.

And Randolph is a hedgehog because he primarily focuses on post up offense and rebounding, which last season he was about equally successful executing within both a fast, free-flowing offense and a tightly controlled, half-court style of play.

This is very creative, interesting and a fun to ponder conundrum, but perhaps not quite instructive analysis. The definitions may lack some clarity, or possibly I’m dizzy from thinking in mental circles. Anyway, it’s still a great read, and I could not explain the Clippers’ inability to harness individual talent better. I’m at a loss to explain how a team with so much individual talent could play so poorly. Of course many factors are in play with blame to share all around, but none of it quite adds up. Or at least I believe the ‘08-09 Clippers were the best terrible team I’ve ever endured.

by ClipCat on Jun 29, 2009 10:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Don't disagree...

Kevin admitted in the post that you could probably make a case for any player being either a hedgehog or a fox – it depends on your interpretation of the definition, and then your interpretation of the player, and then your interpretation of the applicability of the meme to a basketball team…. so it’s subjective on top of subjective. But like you said, we’re hard-pressed to say why so clearly talented a team was so very terrible… so it’s as good a theory as any right. And it makes us think some, if only to try to come up with a better theory.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 30, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

to all NBA fans!

Moments ago, we created a special website for all Clipper fans to get together, and discuss the Los Angeles Clippers, and the rest of the NBA. Please check us out at http://www.LetsGoClippers.com and invite all your friends over!

by LetsGoClippers on Jul 6, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions  

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