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Around SBN: UFC 143 Results: Winners, Losers, And Other Thoughts

Of Clipper Rosters and Settling Dust

On this last day of June 2009, we have a slightly clearer picture than we did a few days ago.  Most of what I wrote over the weekend is still true - although in my opinion the Clippers caught a major break when Brian Skinner opted out of the second year of his Clippers deal.

There were status changes today on five players from last season's team:

  • Skinner had a player option for $1.3M with the Clippers, which he decided not to exercise.  Presumably he did this because he believes he can find a better situation elsewhere.  It's clear that with three players making 8 figures on the squad, plus the first overall draft pick, plus another promising 20 year old prospect, Skinner was unlikely to get decent minutes with the Clippers.  I'm just worried for him that he won't get picked up, but hopefully he and his agent have some reason to believe otherwise (more than a hunch, I'm saying).  At any rate, he did the team a favor, and they now have eleven contracts more or less on the books.
  • The Clippers extended a qualifying offer to Steve Novak.  This was essentially a no-brainer, and doesn't necessarily mean that Novak will be back.  His contract was so minimal that the QO is like no more than the vet's minimum (which goes up for him now that he's got three year's of service).  The QO means that he's a restricted free agent, and the Clippers can match any offer he receives from another team.  Also, since the Clippers have his full Bird rights, they don't have to use any portion of their mid level exception to sign him.  It's up to the NBA marketplace to set his value, which the Clippers can then decide whether they want to match or not.

Star-divide

  • Alex Acker is now a free agent, as the team did not exercise their option on him (frankly, I didn't even know they had an option on Acker).  I honestly don't know if Acker restricted or unrestricted, if he's a Bird FA or an early Bird or what (he was a second round pick, and he played two years in Europe between his two years of NBA service, so he's far from your normal NBA story).  OK, if I think about it, I know he's unrestricted (teams have to exercise options and extend QOs to preserve their right of first refusal) and they probably have his early Bird rights (he's a two year NBA vet).  But the truth is none of that matters - he has not shown himself to me more than a minimum player in the NBA, and he'll be delirious if he can simply catch on somewhere.  I don't expect that somewhere to be with the Clippers, even though in some ways he's what they need (a combo guard with decent size who can defend) - they just want someone with more experience for that roster spot.
  • Ricky Davis will be with the club one more year (or at least his contract will).  Or until he is traded.  This is not news - we'd gotten word that Davis was going to exercise his option for this season a week ago, and we knew he would long before that since he has no hope for signing for as much with any other team.  But it's official now.
  • As of today, Fred Jones is an unrestricted free agent.  This is not news - he only signed a one year deal with the team when he stuck with them in January, so he was always going to be a UFA.  Unfortunately, the Clippers do NOT have his Bird rights, since he was signed as an FA and was only with the team one season (less than, in fact).  This means that if the Clippers wish to sign him for anything over the minimum, they have to dip into their mid level exception or their bi-annual exception to do so.  I don't actually expect Fred to command more than the min in the seller's market this off-season, but we'll see.
  • The current eleven man roster breaks down positionally as follows (I'm counting Griffin, who is technically not yet signed, and Mike Taylor, whose contract is not guaranteed, in the eleven):

    Obviously, some of these players could slot into other spots.  For simplicity sake, I'm putting Collins at the three, Ricky at the two, etc.  Having players who can play multiple positions is a good thing. 

    The Clippers chose not to try to shore up any of these postions via the draft (backup shooting guard being arguably the most glaring weakness above, if you agree with me that Ricky Davis is nothing other than a trade chip or a buy out at this point).  That leaves free agency (or of course trades, which I'm willfully ignoring for the time being) as the avenue for adding players.

    The path of least resistance is probably to re-sign Novak and Jones, assuming each can be had on the relative cheap.  That then gives the Clippers only one more spot to play with.  Novak is 6'10", and actually works best defending against non-scorers for the opposition (which are more likely to be bigs than wings) - so while he doesn't really have a great natural position given his various shortcomings, I'll call him a 4.  At any rate, between the five guys that need minutes, plus Novak and a pretty big Al Thornton who can play the 4 in a pinch, let's say the the roster is set up front.  Jones meanwhile can play either guard position, and couple with the versatility of Collins, that gives the Clippers four guys who can play the point, and a few who can play shooting guard.  So small forward is the most obvious problem to be addressed in free agency, it would seem.

    But this all presents another dilemma - specifically, are any of the backups at either of the guard positions really the level of quality that you'd like?  Ideally, the Clippers would like to find an inexpensive free agent combo guard who's an upgrade over Fred Jones.  Easier said than done.  Suggestions, anyone?

    As for the small forward, we looked at this question a little over a month ago, and we've been talking about 'glue guys' a lot.  (We're still ignoring trades for now.)  The team has up to the MLE to work with.  Who can they target?

    Here are some names we've talked about at one time or another - or maybe I'm bringing them up for the first time, who knows:

    • Josh Childress - may command more than the MLE if he decides to return to the NBA - he remains an RFA, so the Hawks would likely match as well;
    • Trevor Ariza - likely priced himself out of the MLE range with his Finals performance, and the Lakers seem quite interested in signing him as well;
    • Jamario Moon - an RFA, it's unclear how he figures into Miami's plans; the Heat are REALLY close to the luxury tax threshold, so they are unlikely to go very high to sign him;
    • Matt Barnes -former Clipper, former Baron Davis teammate;
    • Quinton Ross - former Clipper, great defender, terrible shooter;
    • Desmond Mason - good athlete, good defender, one of the worst shooters in the history of the NBA;
    • Anthony Parker - Candace's big bro, and a really good player.  I like this idea that I just came up with.  He's more of a two than a three, but I would put him in the 'glue guy' category.

    In the bigger free agency picture, it's interesting that Boozer ended up taking my advice and stayed with the Jazz one more season despite his pretty firm belief that he deserves a bigger payday.  It tells you a lot about the economic reality of the NBA right now.

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    Addition by subtraction...

    I’m not sure why Brian thinks he would be invited to join an NBA club next season and opting out like he did, but he did us a great, great service. Woohoo!

    by bystander on Jun 30, 2009 4:42 PM PDT reply actions  

    Thank You, Brian Skinner

    Interesting piece of news. Definitely increases the chances of signing Novak, and opens up the possibility of strengthening the backcourt, freeing up a valuable roster spot.

    And while the Clips seemed to have a big man surplus, when we look around at the trade value of guys like Camby, Kaman, and Randolph, I guess it makes sense that Skinner is confident he can make a deal elsewhere. Lots of teams seem to need marquee big men, and that probably means that their backup big men are nothing to get excited about either.

    I’m a little mystified by Skinner’s performance in last year’s train wreck. Should he have played better? Did MDSr use him properly? Did he play him too much? The whole thing seems vague to me for some reason. Didn’t he have one great night in the midst of 2 or 3 good games towards the end of the season? Trying to remember.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

    I won't be surprised if

    Rockets take a look at Brian Skinner in the bench. Seems to me that Rockets are lacking a few in the bigs department.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

    they need more length, they already have chuck hayes, scola and landry who are all under 6"10.

    by andrewexd on Jul 1, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

    The first two aren't really options

    Even if a S&T could be worked with Atlanta talent-wise for Childress, he’d be BYC.

    Moon and Parker are intriguing, but I still like Barnes there. I think he has been better longer, as well as potentially meshing better with Baron.

    Seven days to worry about it, and then free agency will open, most likely with a whimper for the the Clippers. Already two-deep at every position with contracts and capped-but-not-taxed out. There couldn’t be a more plain position to be in.

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 4:57 PM PDT reply actions  

    Don't know

    I’d like to like Barnes, but he seems streaky and skittish to me, too impulsive, but maybe he’s getting a bit steadier and smarter. Was he better last season, or did he take a step backwards? He seems like a good backup to Thornton, but not enough of a GG to replace Thornton as a starter.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    He was the same last season as recent seasons

    A slightly above average SF specializing in efficiency and shooting about 33% from deep. Al can still get the bulk of the SF minutes. If we need a glue guy there, start Barnes and let Thornton be the microwave. Barnes just has the tool set to send out with the scoring-focused starters.

    Oh noes, not all that again…

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Ah Barnes the Creator

    I’m rolling my eyes as hard as I can.

    A catch-and-shoot 3 plays out the same no matter who the coach is.

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Barnes is not best utilized as just a catch and shoot three point shooter

    Anyone who actually watched him playing for GS, where he was resurrected, would know that.

    But you just keep burying your head in the stats and denigrating others who actually know what they’re talking about. Really makes you look good my man.

    by Jax on Jun 30, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

    So the absurdity you are selling today...

    Is that even though:
    A full 50% of Barnes FGA are 3’s.
    75% of his FGA are jumpers.
    And that 77% of those jumpers are assisted.

    The catch-and-shoot isn’t important to his game and he is not best utilized this way, even though he had the best season of his career being utilized that way.

    That breakout season in GSW? EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT of his made jumpers were assisted. Not a dude creating his own shot or putting the rock on the floor very often.

    You could convince me to worry about observation more if your observations weren’t so easily demonstrated to be faulty. And I mean this time, its WAY faulty.

    I mean first I was only basing my comments about him FROM observation. Then I check the stats just now and they clearly confirm those observations.

    So you are recommending the Clippers don’t look at Barnes? Or are you just expressing your fear-based distrust of statistical analysis? Or you are just trolling?

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Um

    you are recommending that they start Matt Barnes over Thornton. That’s just not going to happen.

    Are you suggesting that his best season was last year? Based on what?

    by Jax on Jun 30, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Wow.

    “Barnes is an above average SF? Gordon is a below average sg?” John R, as a fellow Clipper, I want to be respectful, but because I really don’t know you, please shut up. I’ve noticed a recent trend in people telling you this, but all you seem to state is your own opinions. Jax was right, you constantly state your opinions as facts, that shit does get annoying.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I fear for you

    Interfering without a point in the John R vs. Jax debate, is considered a capital sin in this blog.

    by edu_argentina on Jul 1, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Yeah, that was me

    I like to tell him to shut up. I also once called him bloated, which, admittedly, was a little too far. I side with Jax in the ongoing debate.

    http://lucasnbablog.blogspot.com/

    by LJ Hann on Jul 1, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Okay

    If he’s holding steady, he’d be an okay choice. He can play well with BDavis, and respond to his enthusiasm. He would need to compete with AT and be a better rebounder and defender. Yes, let AT be the microwave and get the bulk of the minutes. Not the best choice, but a million times better than Ricky Davis.

    Is he a big enough upgrade over Mardy Collins? Maybe Collins will miraculously improve his shooting, after gaining confidence with his solid stint as a PG and ballhandler with the Clips.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

    For some reason

    I thought Barnes was a clipper during the dunleavy era

    by Qlippers on Jun 30, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    It was his rookie season

    but that even left a negative impression. ( I tried to like the guy because he was a Bruin and Clipper, but after he left, I learned to dislike the guy.)

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

    And 7 Days?

    What happens in 7 days? I thought FA “opens” tonight, in a little less than 3 hours.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Talks begin tonight, but so does the moratorium

    Noone is getting signed until the 8th.

    The tension we felt last year in the interim would seem to be…diminished.

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Not that I want to remember, but...

    So this is comparable to the day that FElton, Maggs, and then, surprisingly, BDavis opted out.

    And starting tonight would be when we heard that BDavis agreed “in principle” to a deal with the Clippers, while the GSW were making deals with Moped Ellis, Biedrins and heading towards Maggette and making the offer to Turiaf.

    But FElton only became scarce after BDavis had signed his deal.

    It’s an amazing thing to be a Clipper fan, but following GSW is no picnic. And FElton’s stock has dropped quite a bit, hasn’t it.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

    EB as mystery

    Probably won for losing there. What to make of Philly if Miller goes elsewhere?

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Wouldn’t Philly rather spend the money on Kidd to run with Iggy?

    by banandy on Jun 30, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

    What money?

    All they can offer is the MLE and if other teams offer the MLE, why would Kidd choose Philly? If Dallas offers the MLE +$1M using their Bird rights, why would Kidd choose Philly?

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Mmm

    I would think that because it’s easier to play in the East, he might (B)ran(D) like a Kidd.

    Kidd and Brand would be a good Dunleavy system actually.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Yeah

    Pretty surprising turn of events, FElton’s 2nd big injury and as many years, and he wasn’t really cruising along and a perfect fit before he got hurt. We knew that we would enjoy watching FElton reunited with Mr. Personality, AMiller, but it took a surprising turn, and now who knows where they’re going or what the team will be like, but they’ve got a ways to go to break into the top tier in the East, and seem to be going in the other direction.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    They're shopping Brand

    Nobody is interested. He blew it. (But at least he got paid).

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Probably?

    Dude, Elton leaving is the best thing that could have happened. Can you imagine if he were under contract for 4 years/$70M? Oy!

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Barnes vs. Parker

    How do you figure that Barnes has been “better longer” than Parker?

    Ever since Parker got a real minutes 3 seasons ago, he’s been better than Barnes. Barnes has only averaged double digits in points once his whole career. Not to mention that Parker’s 3 pt FG% has been excellent while Barnes’ has been shaky. So to the extent you’re talking about a catch and shoot 3…Parker is clearly a better option.

    Barnes is a better option in terms of his chemistry with Baron from GSW. But Parker is definitely the better overall player.

    by madglove on Jun 30, 2009 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Parker is easily better

    Parker would be a great backup for EJ, and he’d be a solid pickup even if it meant the end of Fred Jones. He would help spread the floor with his shooting and plays solid defense, too. I’m not sure if he’s able to play small forward well, but he’d be great depth in our backcourt.

    Meanwhile, I really don’t see much in the way of identifiable skills in Barnes. He’s learned to shoot the 3 a little, and he plays hard, but that’s about it. I’d take him on a minimum contract to fill out the roster but wouldn’t get too worked up about it.

    Thinking outside the box a bit, the guy I’d love to see the Clippers acquire is Jared Dudley. He seemed like an excellent young “glue guy” in the making when he played here in Charlotte, and he only was traded to the Suns because the Bobcats had too many wings. He didn’t excel at any one skill but he had great intangibles, basketball IQ and a charismatic personality. Unfortunately, the Suns probably aren’t interested in dealing him. Still, Novak seems like a player they might be interested in, and a sign and trade could help out everyone involved.

    by ClipCat on Jun 30, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Parker can also play backup PG

    And the chemistry between BD and Barnes in GSW was because of Nellie ball. Not gonna happen here.

    I like Barnes, but no way he’s going to start for a slow plodding iso offense like what is probably going to happen here.

    by Jax on Jun 30, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

    We'd have to define better

    And I don’t see anything at all shaky in Barnes’ 3. There were 3 seasons in which he never shot more than 22 attempts. The 3 other seasons he never had less than 181 attempts and averaged a tick under 34%. Its not Novak-esque, but it plays.

    Barnes actually had the better TS% and eFG% last year making him overall the more efficient scorer.

    Finally, I’m not sure you guys are aware of this, but Parker already had a bit of a drop-off last year, and NEXT year he will be 34. Barnes will be 29. I’m not a fan of just saying so-and-so is old therefore no, but when a guy shows a drop AND he is old, its a problem.

    by John R on Jun 30, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Parker's age

    I knew he was in europe a long time, but had really no idea he was already 33 (didn’t bother to look it up when I wrote the post). You sure don’t want to offer him more than 2 seasons.

    In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

    by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I can easily see Skinner going to teams like Cleveland or San Antonio for the minimum.

    by banandy on Jun 30, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions  

    Anthony Parker

    He would be a great fit for the Clips. I really like his play and I think he’d be great coming off the bench. I’d also be more than happy with Ariza or Moon, and perfectly content with Barnes. I looked through all of the 2009 free agents and probably one of the only players that intrigues me is Ronald “Flip” Murray on Atlanta. He had a pretty good year coming off the bench and starting when needed for the Hawks, and would be a great player coming off the bench for the Clippers. Obviously probably wouldn’t have to spend the MLE on him, but if we don’t get Novak, I’d love Murray. Played surprisingly decent defense and averaged a steal a game last year.

    by besaje on Jun 30, 2009 4:59 PM PDT reply actions  

    MDSr. probably still holds a grudge from when Murray broke their verbal agreement and we were forced to sign the wunderkind that is Smush Parker.

    Still can’t believe dude threw away his “career” over a twelve dollar tip.

    by Gordon for President on Jun 30, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Anthony Parker is an underrated SG who can pass the rock

    Matt Barns is ok too. More of an SF. But a tough player.

    by Jax on Jun 30, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Yea

    I remember Dun’s quotes regarding Flip and he was ticked. He said they had a jersey made for him and everything. In the end he made a comment about preferring guys who actually keep their word. No way Murray is a Clipper under Dun’s watch.

    by madglove on Jun 30, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Ohhh Yeah

    I definitely didn’t remember that happening until hearing you guys mention it. That was when Flip ran off to Indiana right? Anyways, I think Anthony Parker couldn’t be more perfect for the Clippers. But I can’t wait to see who they fill out they’re roster with this year…

    by besaje on Jun 30, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

    he is a 10 year vet, so all he has to do is sign with a team and he’ll make the same money.

    i figure he’ll find someone.

    by hans007 on Jun 30, 2009 5:12 PM PDT reply actions  

    i would love to see Q ross back in the red white and blue

    by teamfiend on Jun 30, 2009 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

    QRoss = "Great Defender"?

    Really? This is a bit of a myth amongst Clippers fans. QRoss was a hard working, solid defender, but he hardly did anything to be considered “great.” It’s not like he would lock up opposing teams’ best players. He just happened to be the only guy on our team who could stay with any quality wings. He might be great on defense compared to Maggette, who doesn’t try at all on that end, but I would hardly put him at an elite level.

    The guy busts his butt and he was a fan favorite, but he was too light to hang with the stronger wings around the league and his defense was highlighted more compared to his utter lack of offense.

    by madglove on Jun 30, 2009 5:48 PM PDT reply actions  

    I liked his effort, but yeah, he was a big offensive liability – how many times did he try to score in the paint but couldn’t finish or get blocked?

    by banandy on Jun 30, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    don't remember Baron taking a swing at Ross

    but Carmelo’s reaction was one of my favorite moments as a clipper fan.

    In Gordon we trust

    by bestclipfan on Jun 30, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    The interesting thing

    The interesting thing about QRoss, without rehashing any more of yet another incredibly painful Clipper episode than is necessary, is how he failed to be an effective “Glue Guy.” Perhaps he wasn’t a great defender, but he was certainly a good one. His ballhandling and passing skills were inferior, but he didn’t turn the ball over. Probably can have a good discussion on Mardy Collins vs. QRoss as GGs, but I think that Collins’ ballhandling gives him the nod.

    As we look back, one thing that I’ve just recently realized is that Cat Mobley was a very solid Glue Guy. I don’t know what this does to AGGT—Advanced Glue Guy Theory—but perhaps it means that one superior GG cancels out the effectiveness of another GG, who might be slightly inferior. Mobley wasn’t brought in as a GG, but MDSr recognized him as his blanket and used him as such. He was supposed to be an effective SG, able to shoot 3s and score points, and be a crucial part of the Clipper attack, but he was something less than that… he was a Glue Guy. And AGGT, along with truckloads of hindsight, would suggest that Mobley’s GG status is exactly what created the necessity of starting Maggette over QRoss. On top of that, if Mobley is the GG and Maggs is the starter, then where’s the microwave, where do you get your scoring off the bench? That’s where the 06-07 Clippers came up short.

    by citizen zhiv on Jun 30, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Does Sam count as a Glue guy?

    I think he and Mobley were both definite glue guys on the team and that may explain why things have only gone down hill since they both left.

    In Gordon we trust

    by bestclipfan on Jun 30, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Sam was the leader, Cat was the glue

    I think having those two work so well together was huge. Man I miss Sammy…

    by madglove on Jun 30, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think the ability to go 1-on-1 precludes one from being a “glue guy”. But that’s just me.

    by d2s4ui1 on Jun 30, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Vlad Rad

    but he vanished in the PHX series.

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Few more potentially cheap 2s/3s

    Marquis Daniels, Dahntay Jones, Von Wafer, Rodney Carney, Ime Udoka, Gerald Green, James Singleton, Keith Bogans, Bobby Jackson, Joey Graham. All unrestricted FAs. All (in my opinion) better than Fred Jones.

    by d2s4ui1 on Jun 30, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions  

    i like daniels a lot.

    Dodgers - 2008 NL West Champions
    Cardinals - 2008 NFC Champions

    by wongy on Jul 1, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I don't think Bobby Jackson

    counts as a 3. More of a 1, and possibly 2? I’m not sure about Dahntay Jones or Von Wafer. But you could probably be right since I don’t really watch these guys and I’m so used to them starting in the league being 2’s. Anyways, at the 3, Fred Jones is probably the wrong guy. Fred Jones is more of a 2, and sometimes 1 guy.
    As for taking the guys on your list, many seem to have their flaws. The best of your list is possibly Marquis Daniels and Rodney Carney. You can possibly throw in Joey Graham in that list.
    Lets analyze a bit.
    We all already know what Fred Jones can do. We know how much the guy hussles, even for the Clippers. When nobody seems to hussles, there goes Fred Jones still diving for the ball even when we’re down 20 points. That’s something that cannot be taken lightly; the type of player everybody loves (Farmar, Battier, Nash) I’m thinking that Fred Jones doesn’t get as much credit for it could be because he’s playing for the Clippers?
    Anyways, I like Marquis Daniels. Great defense player. So your right, he’s probably better than Fred Jones. Rodney Carney is still young, still shows promise, so possibly better than Fred Jones?

    Anyways, Dahntay Jones, I dont know. All his seasons seem like a roller coaster. One season he’ll be doing great, and the next, he’ll play like Alex Acker. Ime Udoka had one good season. Same goes for Von Wafer, before that (Von Wafer) he didn’t accomplish much. Ime UDoka hasn’t been Ime Udoka from 2 years ago. We already gave James Singleton a try. Not a great jumpshooter and is more suited for the PF position it seems. Keith Bogans? Don’t want to start. Can’t seem to shoot a jumper.

    Anyways, your right with Marquis Daniels, he’s a great defender. But as for the rest o the class, they remain a solid question mark.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Not sure why you think Bogans is a bad shooter

    He’s 35% career from 3.

    As for Fred Jones’ hustle, I think you could say the same for Dahntay Jones and Wafer.

    There are plenty of scorers on the Clippers, so I figured a defensive player like Jones could play a role similar to the one he played in Denver. Only problem is that usually defensive stoppers are best used in the starting lineup, and you can’t bench EJ, so he’d have to slide up to SF where he’s a bit small.

    Yeah I definitely wasn’t suggesting that Bobby Jackson is a 3. But he’d be interesting to pair with Mike Taylor in the backcourt.

    Anyway, since I think Thornton needs to come off the bench (this was mentioned either here or on Clipperblog at some point, but there’s no reason to have Thornton, who can only score, be the 5th scoring option on the floor), and EJ needs to start, Clips would be best off looking for a scoring 2 off the bench and/or a defensive starting 3. In my opinion, it’s more important for the second unit to be able to score than to defend. So if we’re just looking at my list, at SF I’d go with Daniels, Singleton (decent 3pt shooter, great rebounder for his position…no reason not to try again unless MDsr simply doesn’t know how to use him), Joey Graham (a very large man), and Udoka (37% from 3) in that order, and for SG: Wafer, Gerald Green (imagine Green on the fastbreak with the likes of baron davis/mike taylor/blake griffin/deandre jordan/al thornton…plus he’s 36% career from 3), Rodney Carney (decent scorer but doesn’t seem like a great lockerroom presence…last year when he was getting hot he commented that he was looking forward to getting paid), and Bobby Jackson in that order. Jones and Bogans are defensive minded 2s who would be hard pressed to switch to the 3 or 1, so I rescind those suggestions.

    by d2s4ui1 on Jul 1, 2009 1:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Sorry about that

    your right about Bogans. For some reason I thought he was playing for Magics and was shooting thirty somethjing percent from the field. Made me think twice. Anyways, I wouldnt give Singleton a try again, not why Dunleavy as head coach.

    Anyways as for Wafer, he had one good season. Im not disregarding him as a one and done already, but I have to wait and see to make a clear judgement.

    Ime Udoka? Never really watched, but his career has been dropping since his steller preformance 2 years ago. We’ll have to see how far he can step up with Bowen gone, (although Jefferson is just addded.)

    Gerald Green isn’t bad on your list, but the guy has not really had a great season. Great games, bad seasons. I won’t say hes that big of a bust, cause it seems like if you gvie him 36 mins a game, he can be rewarding, but it seems like no NBA team is willing to give him a serious try at the starting spot. Makes me question why so little teams are giving him such little attention.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 3, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Acker is playing for the NY Knicks summer league team...

    Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
    Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.

    by Lawler's Law on Jul 2, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Good Luck to Acker man

    the guy was one of the nicest Clippers last season.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 3, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Good list...

    I’m not sure what to think of Daniels. He’s been up and down in his career… and does he have an attitude problem? Carney almost made my first list, but I felt he was in the next tier. Green has busted in so many places now, I just can’t take him seriously despite his NBA skillset. Singleton, the former Clipper, seems unlikely since MDsr willfully ignored him when he was here before. Are these guys demonstrably better than Fred? I’ll put it this way – if Fred goes elsewhere, he’s easy to replace. But I’m also fine with keeping him if these guys are the alternatives. (Carney, I’d like.)

    In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

    by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Not sure it's time to give up on Green yet...

    He’s suffering from Chauncey Billups syndrome. Everyone thinks he’s a bust because teams keep trading him and he never has a chance to do anything.

    One more thing to consider: he’s entering his 5th pro season out of high school. Jermaine O’Neal did nothing in his first four seasons and all of the sudden his PER spiked 4 points when he got traded and got more minutes. Actually, outside of ‘06-07 when he played some minutes for a disaster Celtics team, Green averaged around the same amount of minutes as O’Neal his first four seasons (anyone remember O’Neal as a Blazer? I don’t).

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenge01.html

    His per-36 numbers are decent…his TS% is passable, he can spread the floor, and he rebounds pretty well for a SG.

    by d2s4ui1 on Jul 1, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Well Jermaine was stuck on the bench because of Rasheed

    Who was a beast back then. Green can’t beat out….Antoine Wright.

    by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 2, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Let's get...

    Anthony Parker + Q Ross!

    'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!

    by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 PM PDT reply actions  

    Nice list

    but i’ve got another guy we should consider.

    It’s Ime Udoka from the Spurs. He’s a free agent(UFA, i think) and most likely wouldn’t command that much money. He can play both the 2 and 3 position, defends very well and is able to hit the open jumpshot.

    BTW: Or we could deal Z-Bo for Q to the Grizz. Even though Richardson is a lock to miss about 20 – 30 games(thanks to his bad back), i think he could help some, while playing at the 2 and 3 positions.

    by Silvio on Jul 1, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions  

    No thanks.

    We’ve had enough of the injury bug. Q can stay right where he’s at…

    by bystander on Jul 1, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Q is not valuable because he can be a solid contributor for us, it’s because he’s an expiring contract. That’s exactly why we should make this deal. To become players in the 2010 FA market would be great.

    by illastrate on Jul 1, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Yep

    Any contribution he can make on the court is really just gravy. But really, he’s a much more attractive player than Pretty Ricky…haha, i mean this in a basketball sense.

    by banandy on Jul 1, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

    What do you guys think about Marvin Williams

    He’s a very good all around player and can play the 2 or 3. Might take too much to pry him away from atlanta though.

    "Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

    by Cliptomaniac on Jul 1, 2009 11:20 AM PDT reply actions  

    Correction...

    I meant to say 3 or 4.

    "Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

    by Cliptomaniac on Jul 1, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Too expensive

    He’s not an option, except in a sign and trade.

    In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

    by Steve Perrin on Jul 1, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

    yep

    I think ATL was reported to be willing to go to $7M or so to keep him…

    by banandy on Jul 1, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Yeah, a SF is their biggest need.

    Unfortunately, the top notch guys would appear to be out of the Clippers’ price range. It would be great to have a guy to start in front of Thornton. It seems to me like he’d make a great bench player because of his explosiveness and scoring ability. It would also help to hide some of the deficiencies that we spent a good part of last season griping about.

    "If a Clippers fan is reading a newspaper in his living room and the ceiling falls on him, he'll just shrug and move to another room." -Bill Simmons

    by WestsideBrandon on Jul 1, 2009 11:30 AM PDT reply actions  

    We may have to stay pat

    Because no good free agent is gonna want to come to the Clippers until we start winning.

    "Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

    by Cliptomaniac on Jul 1, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions  

    Problem is

    usually we cant get better if we dont sign a FA. It might not be the case this year because this years lineup seems solid, but we’ll have to see.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

    A solid backup PG wouldn´t hurt

    It seems to me that we are too much dependant on Baron Davis. Mike Taylor is not steady enough to run a team, he looks more like of a game changer. So we need a backup PG who can distribute the ball, an upgrade over Mardy Collins who gives BD a rest, and also who can hold the fort for some games, preventing those 10-15 games that Baron will probably be out.

    by edu_argentina on Jul 1, 2009 2:30 PM PDT reply actions  

    Tried to upgrade by getting another draft pick

    but it didn’t work out. Not sure what can be done in free agency in that regards, but I think acquiring a player that can play the 2 or 3 is the key right now. We have enough guys who can take the ball up the floor if need be, adding some tough defense and outside shooting in the same package is what we could really use.

    by ghost_ride on Jul 1, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I agree but who?

    The Clippers should consider signing a veteran backup PG as they tried to do with J-Will and Hart last year. However, I don’t see anyone that fits the bill. Assuming the top PG’s (Kidd, Miller, Bibby, Felton, Sessions and Jack) are out of our price range, the rest of the market is not strong. Mardy Collins may be better than options like Starbury, Tyrone Lue, Brevin Knight, Ronnie Price and Marcus Williams.

    by ClipCat on Jul 1, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

    The market is not enticing

    We would have to settle with a classic journeyman. I’m intrigued with Jamaal Tinsley. He can resurrect his career in a Clippers’ jersey. Does Indiana pays the bill? I don´t know.
    Tinsley and Mike Dunleavy Jr for Zach and Ricky? I can see MDSr pulling the trigger on that one. But that’s a trade and we are talking free agents here.

    by edu_argentina on Jul 1, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Interesting

    Zach is from Indy. But they seem happy with Troy Murphy. They would probably rather have a center.

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

    And they just drafted Tyler Hansbrough

    by ClipCat on Jul 1, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Bust of the century?

    I found it surprising that the Great Larry Bird saw himself in Tyler. He might be getting delusional. Magic must’ve done something to him.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

    What about Shawn Marion, Marvin Williams, or Wally Szczerbiak?

    Just wondering why we’re not talking about them as much as say, Anthony Parker or Matt Barnes…who incidentally are not even on Yahoo’s top 20 free agent’s list

    by banandy on Jul 1, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions  

    I would rather....

    Have WallE on my team, than Wally.

    by sqrebck on Jul 1, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I rather have Marion over all these other guys

    but that could be a question mark without Steve Nash and it would really depend on what kind of salary Marion wants.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

    what about full MLE?

    Not sure what his market value is these days, but I’m guessing the full MLE might be close. IF we get him, MD Sr, can we pretty please run?

    by banandy on Jul 1, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I always thought that

    we could already run with Al Thornton. I don’t think Shawn Marion is the reason to start running. (Although he is the veteran who could possibly be better on fast break.)

    Truth is, I think we should run regardless of Marion or not.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Agree - why not run?

    Last year’s half court set really only benefited ZBo and Kaman…nobody else, except maybe Thornton who enjoyed a few too many iso’s whenever the post play got denied.

    The Lakers offense last year is a great blueprint for our team:
    1) Bigs run down the middle of the court for the quick post
    2) Pass for open spot up three (ala EJ/Novak))
    3) Run the half-court set
    4) Sell a much more exciting brand of basketball to the rest of the world

    If none of this works, we can always run our back up plan:
    4) Baron jacking up a desperation three

    Seriously, if we really do keep all our bigs, there should be no reason they’d ever get tired in a run-gun offense.

    by banandy on Jul 1, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Actually, if you mean if all this fails

    I rather have Eric Gordon run an iso offense. Gordon was prettygood last year combining his speed, strength, and shot selection.

    Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
    On a second note, I want Novak back!

    by JackduhSun on Jul 1, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I don't care if they run or walk as long as they play D.

    But if they don’t play D, they may as well run.

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

    They could

    AT is good in the open court. If he improves on D this offseason, shoring up the 3 will be a non-issue.

    Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)

    by mikey p on Jul 1, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

    check out

    Moments ago, we created a special website for all Clipper fans to get together, and discuss the Los Angeles Clippers, and the rest of the NBA. Please check us out at http://www.LetsGoClippers.com and invite all your friends over!

    by LetsGoClippers on Jul 6, 2009 12:40 PM PDT reply actions  

    100th comment!

    I’l like to dedicate this comment to http://www.LetsGoClippers.com/ They are just the greatest Clippers forum on this planet!

    GO CLIPPERS!!!!!

    by LetsGoClippers on Jul 6, 2009 12:47 PM PDT reply actions  

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