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The Clipperblogger Summit - Part Two

Zach Randolph isn't exactly the model NBA citizen.

More photos » David Zalubowski - AP

Zach Randolph isn't exactly the model NBA citizen.

All good Clipper fans have two blogs bookmarked:  ClipsNation and Clipperblog.  Kevin Arnovitz began writing Clipperblog in early 2006, a couple months before I started blogging about the Clippers myself.  Over three years later, a lot has changed in the NBA blogosphere, and I don't think either or us had any idea what we were getting into.  But if I'm half the blogger Kevin is, then the Clippers as a team don't deserve the quality blogging they inspire.  I've always loved Kevin's work (no one writing about the NBA in any medium breaks down plays better) and we see each other at Clipper games and talk from time to time.  But we've never collaborated on the blogs - until now.  When we ran into each other at the Clippers training facility the day after the lottery, we dove into a discussion about the team and realized that it was good stuff that our collective communities would lap up with a spoon.  We thought about just firing up the digital recorders then and there, but decided that maybe an email exchange would be more accessible.  This series, which will play out over the next week or so, is the result.

The conversation so far:  Part One

 

From: Steve Perrin
To: Kevin Arnovitz
Date: June 4, 2009

Kevin -

There are lots of points I want to touch on from your email, but I'll first try to answer your specific question.  What is that hypothetical sentence about the 09-10 Clippers (and I'm going to assume that you're hoping it doesn't include the word dysfunctional in that 'ideal world')?  I asked the Magic Eight Ball; he said "Reply hazy" and I have to agree.  Assuming this ideal world doesn't include unicorns and leprechauns, then we can rule out Chris Kaman and Zach Randolph making the all star team, right?  Let's call it a semi-realistic ideal world.  For all the talk of increasing the tempo, it's pretty difficult to confuse a Mike Dunleavy team with a Mike D'Antoni team.  So while Baron Davis has been best in free flowing systems, and Eric Gordon, Al Thornton and Blake Griffin would all thrive filling a lane, I'm just not hopeful it's going to happen.  The one thing that we certainly should be able to expect as fans, and that has nothing to do with wishful thinking, is better effort.  Davis was clearly going through the motions last season, and it permeated the entire team.  As I've been watching the playoffs, I've been struck more than anything by how damn hard these teams are working - in Denver's case, for whatever reason, they let down in Game 6 and got blown out.  The rest of the playoffs, they just worked their butts off and looked like the best team in the NBA much of the time because of it.  It's one thing to know when and where you're supposed to rotate - it's quite another to dig deep and close out as fast and as hard as you can despite the fact that you're already exhausted.  That's what I saw Denver do, and I don't think I saw five Clippers do that all year (with the possible exception of when those five Clippers really had no business getting significant NBA minutes to begin with).  Obviously, it's not unusual that playoff teams are working hard with so much more on the line - and therein lies a little glimmer of hope, in a perverse way.  The Clippers had nothing to play for from about as early in last season as is possible, and it showed.  So at a minimum, I'd like to see a team playing with purpose.  I remain concerned that the personnel is not particularly well-suited to the coach, but with the current coach it seems more likely that the purpose will manifest itself on the defensive end first.  The realistic best case scenario at that point becomes an exciting young team playing good defense, led by a point guard determined to re-assert his NBA bona fides, and running opportunistically. 

Readers of ClipperBlog like myself were witnesses to your crisis - your heart was on your sleeve.  And you weren't the only one.  It's amazing how many die hard Clipper fans, who've been through terrible season after terrible season, finally reached their breaking point on this one (or at least said they did - the very fact that they're Clipper fans makes me suspect that they'll be back).  The burden of increased expectations that came with the 2006 playoffs has a lot to do with it, I suspect.  The next season was disappointing, but they still won 40 games (the team's fourth best win total in their LA history after all).  The next season was all about Elton Brand's injury, and everyone put their hopes for the team on hold one more year.  But this season - this was the realization that the ineptitude was back, probably for awhile.  The Leno punchlines, the "It's the Clippers" stories... and of course it didn't help that the Lakers were back at the top of the Conference. 

But it's more than that.  The Staples Center incarnations of the Clippers have been made up for the most part of genuinely likeable players.  Elton Brand was too good to be true (as we later found out).  Corey Maggette, for all his faults, never took a possession off.  Cassell, Mobley, Livingston, Ross, Simmons, even Mikki Moore and Rick Brunson - these were good guys.  The unprecedented roster turnover this season left us with an entirely different team.  And a few of them were decidedly unlikeable, at least on the surface, led by Zach Randolph and Ricky Davis.  If ever there was a team that tested Seinfeld's "Rooting for clothes" premise, it was the 08-09 Clippers.

I don't think it's a "fair weather" thing at all, at least not in the traditional sense.  Normally, that would be about wins and losses.  But you're in it for the basketball.  In the early part of this decade, when Shaq and Kobe were winning rings with the Lakers, the Clippers were winning 30 some games a season.  But the Lakers were just terrible to watch - all Shaq pounding people or Kobe going one-on-one.  The "fair weather" fan would have been watching the Lakers, but we were watching the Clippers.  (The irony here is that the Kobe-Gasol Lakers are actually a very entertaining team to watch.)

But we could probably spend months on the psyche of the Clipper fan and not get anywhere.  Here's hoping they give us something worth watching next season.  I'm not sure I can say much more that that at this point without getting depressed.  The elephant in the room on all of this is that we're not just garden-variety fans any more, you and me - we're bloggers now.  If we get fed up with the Clippers, what do we do?  Do we just turn the blog over to Zhiv?

Speaking of a more watchable incarnation of the team, when we spoke the day after the draft, the conversation immediately migrated in the direction of the "glue guy", which is something the Clippers seem to be sorely missing.  I actually like Al Thornton a lot, but with Gordon and Randolph and Davis and Kaman (not to mention Griffin), it seems to me that the Clippers now have a scoring three, who does little else, who is arguably their fifth scoring option in the starting lineup.  That's not a good thing.  So if I'm the GM, I'm out looking for a "glue guy" to start at the three, and moving Thornton to the bench (or packaging him to get the "glue guy" if necessary).  Free agent Trevor Ariza seems like an ideal candidate, and we'd save on relocation costs.  Jamario Moon is another free agent that comes to mind, or maybe Josh Childress is tired of gyros.  Or Chris Kaman for Tayshaun Prince was brought up in a recent HoopsWorld chat.  Who would be your ideal "glue guy"?  And what the heck is a "glue guy" anyway?

Steve

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Enjoying the email chat fellas.

I’m definately down with making a move for a glue guy, or should you say, unselfish team player.

For me, that player isn’t one of your top scoring options but a tough, energetic player who plays good, lock down, man on man D but can hit the open shot when given a chance.

This means you get a player who doesn’t demand the ball but gives the team a scoring option when double teams have given you an opportunity to get him the ball, or defenses just ignore to try and cut off the number 1,2 or 3 offensive threats.

Seems to me that those players seem to be good character guys in most cases. The best for me at present is Battier. Ariza has done a good job this year and I think the Lakers will keep him and let Odom go instead.

Hey, I’d dump ZBo for a good team man and a bad contract or two. It would make the world of difference to the starters but also give great energy having DJ, Mike Taylor and Al Thornton coming off the bench.

Bingo! Oh me oh my!

by ClippersUK on Jun 4, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks good

I don’t think Ariza would be that much of a difference maker for the Clips. Plus, I doubt Ariza would leave LAL for LAC unless the Clips seriously overpay.

Prince is the perfect guy, but we have no idea if he is available. What is obvious is that our “glue guy” has to be a 3. The other positions are filled, and AT is the odd man out. It is strange to say that. The guy averaged 17ppg last year as a starter, and I expect that he will improve on that if given the minutes. But he hurts the team on the other end, which is why sixth man duty may be the best spot for him. At least Thornton can create a shot for himself.

 I don’t like the idea of EJ having to guard the opponents best wing player every night. That’s a great way to burn him out.

I think this may be the best lineup

Baron Davis
Taylor
Gordon
w/
Griffin/Randolph
Kaman/Camby

Baron can guard the opponents 3, Taylor can take the PG, EJ can take the 2, and the bigs can stay home. It leaves us small on the perimeter, but up front is still big. And the bigs can be platooned in various combos. Novak, Thornton and Collins can rotate in.

Otherwise maybe Novak could start at the 3. He could be a Matt Bonner type.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 4, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Too small...

The last half of last season, with Collins and then Thornton and, yes, even Ricky Davis hurt, the Clippers were playing the likes of Fred Jones and Baron at the three on defense and it just didn’t work. They were getting beasted. Even if it’s not Ariza, there’s got to be more options at the three. Hell, bring back Marcus Williams (the one from Arizona) – but you have to do something.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

all of those guys are short (Baron, Gordon, Taylor). The short backcourt killed Cleveland vs. Orlando.

Baron’s inability to deal with opposing PG’s was the elephant in the room, which is why putting Taylor somewhere in the starting five makes sense. But it won’t happen.

I’m sure we will see the conventional 1-5 lineup.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 4, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interchangeable is good...

Small is bad. Look, Gordon and Jones are smallish for twos. They’re just way too small for threes. Kind of makes you appreciate Cat Mobley’s defense at his size, watching Jones and Davis struggle to defend threes.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Thought Mardy Did OK

I can’t believe I’m alone in remembering how well Mardy played. I distinctly remember thinking “He looks so slow” but watching him do a fine job defending some 3s. I also thought Ralph said that he was turning into one of the better defenders on the team (I know, doesn’t say much on this squad). 6’6" tall enough, no?

If no trades get done. I am sticking to my wish rotation, (which some people gave me flack for starting Al off the bench but now seems ok with many…):

PG: Baron Davis, Mike Taylor, Eric Gordon
SG: Eric Gordon, Fred Jones, Mardy Collins, Ricky Davis
SF: Mardy Collins, Al Thornton, Blake Griffin, Ricky Davis
PF: Blake Griffin, Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman
C: Marcus Camby, DeAndre Jordan, Chris Kaman

The only change I see is moving Kaman up if he’s performing better, consistently. Otherwise go young and throw DJ in there with Blake!

by moKi on Jun 4, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trace back...

the comment I made above prefaced it with Collins being hurt. That’s when the team was way too small on the wing.

We missed Mardy… much worse than I might have imagined. But I would call him serviceable at best. He is versatile, and that’s good. But he’s not particularly good at anything, imho.

If we enter the season with Al and Mardy as our only legit small forwards (Ricky Davis is dead weight, it seems pretty clear), then it will be a problem as soon as one of those guys gets hurt.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Steve

Are you not buying the Clipper’s assertion that Blake can spend some time at the 3?

by moKi on Jun 5, 2009 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not ideal...

He’s a four. As such, even if he is capable of playing the three (and I think he is) it’s not the right long term solution.

Even with the current personnel, I’d hesitate to use it more than 5 or 6 minutes a game – I just don’t think there would be enough shooters. It’d be great if Novak’s in the game – let Griffin guard the wing while Novak guards a four that’s not a major post threat. But it’s going to be hard enough to find the minutes for Kaman, Camby, Randolph – let alone Novak.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 5, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Josh Childress

I read on Fanhouse the other day that Childress struggled in Greece (can’t find the link or else I would post it.) He seems to definately be ready to come back to the states. I don’t exactly follow European leagues, so I was wondering if anybody had any details regarding his struggles….

by Michael White on Jun 4, 2009 4:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Struggled?

He seemed pretty into the whole thing prior to the EuroLeague Final Four. Of course, their season has gone straight down hill from there, with them losing that and the Greek league title to their dreaded rivals. He got hurt, which is never fun, but he had nothing but good things to say about the way the team treated him during his injury. There was an incident with a riot at a game, after which he was quoted as saying it made him think about coming back. But then later I saw a different thing saying that he was misquoted, and he never said that. So… who knows.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...

Not that we need a project at the bigs, but he was teammates with Sofo in Greece. Since Olshey was talking about bringing Sofo over, maybe they can be teammates again! (Sofo was also a teammate of Alex Acker for one season, FWIW.)

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 4, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The chemistry between Sofo, Acker and Childress would make the transition so smooth that we have to do it. Sofo would be worth it in jokes alone.

by Michael White on Jun 5, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My preferred lineup

PG – Baron
SG – EJ
C – Kaman
PF – Zbo
SF – Blake

Bench – Camby (backup at the 4 and 5), Thornton (who can play the 2 and 3) and Taylor playing the left over minutes at the 1. DJ will get more PT when Kaman or Camby are hurt (or a spike in time when we trade Camby at the deadline), Al will still get 30mpg with about 18 at SF and 10 min backing up EJ, and Camby will get 25-30mpg as a backup big.

We might have some spacing issues but Blake, Zbo and Kaman have pretty good range for big men and we’d be a monster on the boards.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Jun 5, 2009 7:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What about Zbo in the post...

Griffin at the 4, Thornton at the 3. If Thornton and Griffin step up their defense and Zbo just gets in the way down low, it might work, at least in certain situations. You still have a lot of size up front as well.
Actually, I’m thinking of this lineup as something you’d almost have to do if you trade Kaman.

by swamigusto on Jun 5, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a stretch...

If you recall, against the biggest centers (Yao, Howard, Shaq) while Kaman was hurt, Randolph guarding them on defense as Camby didn’t have the bulk to handle it. So it’s possible. Of course, Griffin won’t protect the rim like Camby, but he could be a tremendous help defender on rotations and what not with his quickness.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Jun 5, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is what was missing

the Clippers defense has never been bad at the rim. In fact, it is usually quite good. The breakdowns happen well before the rim. A laterally quick and determined player makes a big difference.

F-Elton!

by mikey p on Jun 5, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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