Apparently Sessions Thinks Three is Too Many at the One
by Steve Perrin on Jul 24, 2009 9:49 AM PDT
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PrintThere are several interesting tidbits in Steve Kyler's NBA AM post on HoopsWorld today (Hat Tip to Citizen ASoMS for the FanShot).
The most relevant revelation (a relevant revelation, I like it) is that Ramon Sessions has apparently cooled on the idea of coming to the Clippers since the arrival of Sebastian Telfair. He'd now be joining a backcourt with a ten year vet with 561 career starts and a five year vet with 180 career starts. Meanwhile, Sessions has been in the league two seasons and has started 46 games. So, yeah, I guess if you look at it that way.
It's an interesting position if there's any truth to it. Not to psychoanalyze it too much, but doesn't Sessions have the self-confidence to assume that Telfair is not really his competition? Is he willing to sign a $30M contract, and then worry about whether he'll lose minutes to the guy making $5M? I mean, I suppose it's a practical concern, but if the Clippers are courting him, and talking about MLE money, the pretty clear implication is that they envision a pretty big role for him, and that the only way that role changes with Bassy on the roster is if Bassy outplays him. So, don't let Bassy outplay you.It seems his camp is unwilling to commit to anything in L.A. as long as the Clippers have two point guards on the roster. It seems Ramon was comfortable playing with Baron Davis, but the idea of competing with Davis and Sebastian Telfair is too much. If the Clippers want Sessions they may have to move Telfair, whom they recently acquired in a multi-player deal with Minnesota.
Kyler goes on to say that the Bucks are likely to match any offer, so the point is probably moot. Of course, if other teams aren't stepping up, it may not matter whether what Sessions thinks about Telfair - he'll sign the richest offer sheet he can get, especially if he believes he's going to end up in Milwaukee anyway.
It's worth noting that one of the first things another writer said to me before the presser yesterday was "I guess they had to do this quickly before they traded Bassy." I'm more and more convinced that the main reason MDsr made this trade was to accumulate young, relatively cheap assets, which is also why he's still very interested in Sessions. The point is, if you're acquiring assets, you're also no doubt looking to move those assets when the opportunity arises. The obvious solution to the hand-wringing around here about too many ones, not enough threes, is to trade Bassy to a team lacking depth at the one who happens to be overloaded at the three.
The other Clipper-specific item in the NBA AM had to do with Allen Iverson.
The latest word is that Memphis and the Clippers have broken off talks with Iverson and have moved on to other players, leaving Iverson to consider much smaller deals with Charlotte or Miami.
I know not everyone agrees, but this is definitely a good thing for this team. We're not really concerned about the 09-10 Clippers right now - this is about the Clippers of 2010 and beyond, and Allen Iverson can only hurt that future Clipper team. Moving on.
Kyler also makes a brief mention of Portland's non-pursuit of Sessions, which I remarked on yesterday. According to his report, the Blazers just don't think Sessions is a good fit. I'm not sure I agree, but it's a reason.
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Telfair will be fine with the job!
We don’t need Sessions!
by clippersnomatterwhat on Jul 24, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions
Seems a bit odd
It’s certainly legitimate for Sessions to wonder what his role would be, but it seems strange for him to focus on Telfair, while he’s alright with Baron Davis.
Maybe Telfair has made more progress and is better than we think. I guess that’s one possibility, that Sessions, as a player, knows something that we don’t. But I doubt that’s what this is about.
From our perspective, the difference between one of three newly-arrived players who came over in a trade, who has a one year deal and then a player option, and a player being pursued in free agency for a longterm deal, seems pretty obvious.
It could also be the fact...
that Sessions knows Telfair is a player who wants and probably deserves playing time. So he’s thinking could be around the idea of how is this situation going to work with us three?
by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 24, 2009 10:54 AM PDT reply actions
More likely
Hey doesn’t want to get caught up on potential politics like the reports say he did with Skiles.
He was clearly the best PG on that roster but some reports in Mil said Skiles preferred Ridnour and gave him more minutes than he deserved.
People tend to just think of teams like it’s NBA 2K9. Like you just play the players with the highest ratings. It’s not like that in the real world. There’s a lot of politics involved, and I’m sure the last thing Sessions wants to do is lose minutes to an inferior PG for any reason.
Plus with Baron being 7 yrs older, I’m sure Sessions can see that he would take over the starting spot in a few years. It’s reasonable to be less sure how much the coach loves Telfair, who is the same age.
Yup
Good point about what it might be like in the real world.
I keep thinking that it’s possible that Sessions knows, as a player, that Telfair can be a handful, and that he has been figuring out his role and both stabilizing and rising. Just trying to get a sense of how he could be a threat to Sessions.
Telfair’s 180 starts would seem to have established him as a quality NBA backup, rather than a starter, with his mixed results and poor shooting making it seem that he shouldn’t be your #1 guy, but that he might be quite valuable as your backup PG.
As such, with Clipper injury woes, he would be a two-year luxury at 3rd string if the Clips sign Sessions. But he could also be traded in some sort of deal for a serviceable backup or starting SF/perimeter defender, still a hole in the roster.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 24, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Whilst you have to remember
That Sessions has only been in the NBA playing games for less than two seasons so he wants to see playing time, it’s a bit worrying that he concerned about the competition. I want the players on my team to have the confidence to fight for playing time and be confident that they are good enough to get it.also.
Telfair is a talented player that in the right circumstances could have a big year and become a really good backup PG.
Whilst I really like Sessions, I really want some cover at SF also. The thing that bugs me about all this is that we just don’t know how Baron will come back. If he comes back with a vengence then we can live with Telfair as a decent backup.
However, if he never comes back as Warriors Baron then we will have wished we grabbed Ramon, kept Seb and tried everything to shift Baron over to Houston or somewhere.
We need someone who can predict the future……where is Lawlers Law when you need him?
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
What's the count on "whilst"?
SP? Do I have one? I sure hope I do.
We really need to institute a “word of the day” here at the nation. I’ve been thinking about that for the last week—there have been some great ones recently, even just before the excellent “prolly” discussion.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 24, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You can't count ClippersUK
He’s British. They’ve got a whole nuther language or something. Did you know he wrote a FanPost today in which he spelled ‘color’, a perfectly straightforward word, wrong? He spelled it c-o-l-o-u-r. I mean, what’s that about? I’m telling you, the honour of Clips Nation is a stake here.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Steve Perrin
Look if you are going to wind me up about my spelling then you shouldn’t make a boo-boo with “the honour of Clips Nation is A stake here”
This is the queens english you know and she just lives around the corner from me…….
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Poop...
I stepped on my own joke by having a typo in it. Dash it all, you bloody git (by the way, what did I just call you? Hope it wasn’t too nasty.)
The count on ‘whilst’ meanwhile is 32 usages all time, 25 of them from ClippersUK.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 25, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha Ha Ha
I’ve been called much worse, mostly by my wife!
Oops didn’t realise the Whilst count was lead by myself. Didn’t even realised that I used it that often!
I called the Queen up this morning and whilst (33) she was very approving of my use of her language, she has asked me to vary things up a bit.
So, on behalf of the Royal Family of the UK, I’ll get my Thesauras out!!!
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Intresting..
a side of Steve I’ve never seen before..
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
Also a factor
I’m not at all discounting what you said. I think you’re right that Telfair probably should be seen as a viable back-up and Sessions at least recognizes that. Notice it’s not like the reports mention Mike Taylor at all (who is NOT a viable backup).
I was more speaking to the questions about why it’s even an issue if Sessions is a better player (which right now he clearly is). I think he knows that and probably thinks it more than we do (athletes and their egos and all). So I don’t think he’s scared to compete at all against Telfair. I think he’s more worried about not getting the PT he deserves even if he’s killing Telfair (or even Baron) in practice.
He looks at this team and sees $12 mil guaranteed to Baron so clearly he’ll get the priority minutes. Then he sees 2 more years virtually guaranteed to Bassy so I think he can reasonably be concerned that the organization will make sure Bassy plays so they’re not wasting their money. Stuff like that happens in the league all the time. So while Sessions at the MLE would be higher in the pecking order than Telfair, anything more than garbage time minutes for Bassy would really cut into Sessions’ minutes.
Do you not think
then that Sessions real problem on PT is with Baron but the Telfair route is the easier one to speak about.
By that I mean that even if he’s killing Baron in practice and playing much better in games, Baron is still going to log the majority of the minutes due to his status and contract.
I, like you, would be happy to go with a 3 guard rotation of Gordon, Session and Baron with Telfair as a backup to that group but it will also depend to Ramon on how they intend to use him I suppose.
If he’s been struggling to get minutes from Luke Ridnour then if he see’s a similar situation behind Baron then maybe he’s thinking twice about that. It’s one thing if Baron has a 1/2 year contract but he’s still got 4 years left.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Very possible
But why not just say it? Would anyone fault him for saying he would want to be in a place where he can start or at least compete for a starting spot, but he understands Baron is our franchise guy? I don’t feel like that’s uncalled for at all. I think everyone could understand and appreciate that.
Not at all
I’d expect him to want to be starting, especially at this point in his career where it’s starting to take off.
It’s back to your point of politics again Madglove. Sometimes, people try and get a message across and have diplomatic ways of saying it.
He could be saying there is a logjam at PG with rotation level players (which there is a bit) but by saying it’s Telfair, it wouldn’t burn any bridges with the rest of the players if Telfair was moved and Sessions signed.
Just an thought really.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Like I said
it’s definitely possible. Who knows? Maybe we’re only an option for Sessions if he’s not able to get a better deal elsewhere.
I think salary being equal, he definitely wouldn’t choose the Clips. But if the Knicks are only offering a short, or low, deal, and nobody else is interested, maybe he changes his mind.
wow...
has our opinion completely 180d on Mike Taylor or what? Let’s see how he does in regular season before we bash.
by Newton Pham on Jul 24, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about "ours".
If you look at any one of my posts regarding Taylor, I’ve never been a fan. I know Clips fans were trying to hold onto anything positive during a dismal year, but Taylor never showed any ability to run a team or create for others. He’s a guy whose best talents are getting in the lane and scoring. That’s it.
He’s out of control, turnover prone and simply lacks PG instincts. I’ve said it since I saw him in pre-season and nothing during the season changed my mind.
madglove's opinion
mg’s been consistent on MT. that much is clear.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 24, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
kudos
It seemed as if madglove was taking a pretty aggressive stance on Taylor, and now events have certainly gone against MT, kind of a perfect storm actually. The guy has been getting killed in some new way almost every day. A lot of it was his own doing, with a horrific summer league. It’s really strange that he wasn’t more effective: it seems like his job was pretty simple, and somehow he just didn’t get it.
Interesting that we heard early on, I think it was something from Olshey, that the Clips were very much in the market for a backup PG. That was the first major signal about what was to come.
madglove called it in every detail. As a 5th guard it always seemed like he might fit, even after the summer league debacle. But with the arrival of Telfair and now the Sessions discussions (after the Iverson discussions), he really seems, suddenly, like a goner. Fred Jones would be a much better option than Taylor, for instance—there’s no doubt in my mind. Taylor is pretty much at the same place as Ricky Davis on the depth chart at this point. If either of them makes it to training camp I’ll be a little bummed, and it’s hard to conceive of how they could possibly earn a place on the roster: it would take a phenomenal preseason. It’s quite a drop for Taylor.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 24, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
agree
I think madglove and I had a ridiculous argument about Taylor about a year ago, but I agree with him now. Taylor is terrible. I know the summer league isn’t always indicative of a player’s ability, but putting up those atrocious numbers in a league where guards are supposed to dominate is inexcusable.
Last year, we were occasionally wowed by his athleticism and his on-the-ball defense, but he is always out of control and rarely makes any good basketball decisions.
Telfair is a significant upgrade.
The only (risk free) way you can really get Sessions
Is via sign and trade.
Based off the news, it doesn’t look like he’d sign with Telfair on the team, but we can’t risk shipping him out without guaranteeing that Sessions will sign and/or not get matched by the Bucks. Is this right or am I missing something?
But if we sign Sessions to an offer sheet, we just can’t get rid of Bassy right away. Wait the full 7 days, see if Milwaukee matches, and then act accordingly. Surely if Bucks don’t match, Sessions should know that Telfair is on his way out, right?
I don’t see why we would pay him the MLE only to have him fight it out with Bassy for backup PG. And I would hope that both parties realize this.
Ok sorry off topic
I’m on my iPhone and was wondering how to get back to the mobile version of the website.
Anyways, yeah this deal could go either way and I’m dieing to see what move the clipps make next. I am satisfied however, with the fact that as we stand we have a good squad and I think any of these roomored deals can make us better
Just open up another Safari session
and go to your bookmark again. I believe the initial connection always works out it’s a mobile URL request.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Ok, I'll say it
I don’t understand why we traded Q for a big and a backup pg if we wanted Sessions. I’d much rather have Q than Bassy if we had Sessions and we could get a big elsewhere. Of course Sessions is a hot commodity and it doesn’t seem to me like we did what we needed to do to get him. Why would he not want to play for the Knicks (and the D’Antoni system) over what he has here?
MDSr’s apparent desire for Craig Smith trumps his desire for Sessions.
Maybe
Dun didn’t expect it to really be an issue. Like if they offer him the money, he’ll come.
I think Dun did want Craig Smith though. Even if Bassy was where the convo started, look at the way they were presented yesterday and everything. Smith seems to be someone they’re very happy to have.
I’m sure from Dun’s POV, it was a no brainer (which it really was). The team NEEDS depth and having Bassy and Telfair, with Madsen for the lockerroom is a really solid trade.
And also consider that at the time the talk was that NYK would offer the full MLE and Milwaukee might match. So maybe they figured Sessions was unlikely and they wanted Bassy as insurance.
The Q Problem
There are multiple factors here, but it seems like MDSr never had any intention of having Q on the roster. He let him go to Phoenix as an RFA, back when we thought it was a no-brained for the Clips to match the offer. But it turned out, after Q played okay in his first stint under D’Antoni, that he was shipped out of Phoenix and he seemed to be overpaid and a bad contract. Now he’s an expiring contract, and he’s been moving around a lot, as SP pointed out.
MDSr seems to have gotten on the phone right away to see what he might be able to get for Q and his expiring deal.
We had just started talking ourselves into what Q might contribute, but his actual basketball utility seems marginal at best.
Smith is an intriguing player, and Telfair is a bird in the hand. It wasn’t obvious, and still isn’t, that the Clips were/are getting Sessions. They are in a better position, in a certain way, with Telfair on the roster: they don’t absolutely have to have Sessions, and they’re still covered if they don’t get him. There’s always the chance that Milwaukee might match.
And remember that all of this was evolving in the midst of the Iverson blitz. I like the methodical and thoughtful way in which the Clips and MDSr have approached all of this.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 24, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
I don’t recall which slot (or which other forward that played alongside him) where he was more (or less) effective in last year…anyone know?
But with his height (6’10), I would think having him at the 4 would create some really good mismatches on offense.
Has come up before
Novak has seen very little time at the 3, if any. He’s a specialized 4.
There’s some question whether he could play the three, why or why not. Would be good to get the exact stats on how much time (out of his 1100 minutes) he spent at the 3. And our credentialista could ask MDSr about it—what’s up with Novak, and if he thinks he can play the 3.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 24, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
back to sessions...
i also read somewhere else about the possibility of a sign and trade. do you guys see the clippers working out a deal with Milwaukee?
well i guess it makes sense now that they have jennings. i still see possibility of a sign and trade here and even a possibility that Bowen might be thrown in somehow
long time clipper fan, long time reader, first time poster...
i read somewhere that we can’t trade Telfair with another player because we just traded for him, by why?
according to espn:
Restriction Expires: September 20, 2009
If a team is over the cap and receives a player in a trade or claims a player off waivers, they cannot trade the player in combination with other players for 2 months. The player can be traded by himself.
notice the bold, i dont think the Clips are over the cap…
so with that news, why cant we make a better offer of S&T Session for Telfair+?
…Denver did it with newly aquired Walter Sharpe+Sonny Weems for Malik Allen (MIL also)
source: http://www.pickaxeandroll.com/2009/7/21/956505/nuggets-send-sonny-weems-and
Im not sure, as I'm a bit hazy
But I believe that its if any player that is acquired in a trade, they cant be packaged in a trade. Must be shipped individually for 2 months. I could be wrong. Have to wait for the all knowing- Steveeeeeee.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
We are over the cap
Because the trade exceptions we got from the Randolph and Q-Rich trades are also counted against our cap number. So we are a little more than $3 million over the cap. But we could trade him by himself. It’s possible we’re trying to put together a 3 way S&T for Sessions that would accomplish that trade.
another idea I have heard was
we could make two separate deals in one deal we would send Telfair or any other player we got and in the other send the trade exception and in return we get Sessions but I may be mistaken.
In Gordon we trust
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