Bill Simmons and the Clippers
I shouldn't be doing this. I have a paper due for grad school, and this is a pointless exercise - I mean, more pointless than what I usually do here. It's all pointless of course.
And by the way, I'm probably not going to give it my best effort. I'm trying to steal some time here to get this post in, but it's not one of those posts. I mean, it's not the Maggettefesto either, but there's a treasure trove of Simmons material out there. But the 10,000 word post will have to wait for another day.
Bill Simmons is doing his off-season recap, giving it the full-on two parter treatment. The 'Almost Famous' angle is interesting - I liked the movie fine, but never felt compelled to watch it 20 times, although I will concur with him that Frances McDormand was great and deserved an Oscar for it. The idea that it's the defining movie of the decade is obviously just a matter of opinion, but it would seem to have one glaring problem: it's set in the 70s. Shouldn't a movie under consideration for 'Defining movie of the Decade' be set in, you know, that decade? Wall Street is a great candidate for 'Defining move of the 80s'. But 'Almost Famous' has nothing to do with the 00's. 'Best movie of the decade'? I suppose you could try to mount a case. Defining? It's a non-starter.
Part 1 was a couple days ago. Part 2 is up today. In Part 2, the Clippers get three spots near the top of the post - befitting their position in the top of the SG's consciousness.
Citizen Mikey P put a FanShot for it on the front page, and plenty of lively discussion has been going on in the comments. I'm going to go ahead and bring a Zhivian comment from that thread up to the light of day here as part of this post: partly because it's very good, and deserves better than to be buried in a comment thread and partly because it's a cheap way to get the word count up on what I already sense will be an anemic effort.
Kind of like Bill Simmons. Simmons is about Simmons—he’s not especially concerned with the realistic opportunities and chances of success of the Clippers (as opposed to the Celtics), and he has a pretty good understanding of LA, entertainment, entertainment as sports, media, etc. He’s a smart guy—if you read the thing about his dad, you can see how Simmons is pretty aggressive about taking in information and developing opinions—his dad has something like three different degrees, and just retired from running a school district.
Simmons can be very funny, interesting, and knowledgable, but everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. He’s pretty reliable about the Celtics, and his loyalty to them seems solid enough, although we’d like to see his adopted home team test that this year and in the future. I’ve mentioned before how his attitude towards Doc Rivers was similar in way to what he’s putting MDSr through now, but now with KG, etc., guess what: he’s pretty good with Doc Rivers. But he knows the importance of a strong opinion, for good or ill—kind of like some other folks on this blog. It gets attention. Don’t go with the flow, cry for change, change the flow. Don’t be patient, do something right now. It’s so easy when you’re a critic and a commentator.
Dunleavy pegged Simmons pretty nicely when he called him a joke writer recently. His status as a journalist is worthy of an SP "thought paper." It’s actually kind of amazing that our Humble Nation has a folksy, salt of the earth, one of us blogger like the Artist Formerly Known as Clipper Steve, the inimitable, rising KA, and Simmons is a season ticket holder. For a ridiculously lousy team, this is a phenomenal group. Maybe the Clips are about to do something big. Remember it’s not just those guys—we also have Club Optimism!
I think that Simmons needs to study Dunleavy just as carefully as he studied Elgin Baylor. As his English Professor, that’s what I would assign, rather than writing a paper on the accomplishments of Henry Louis Gates Jr., just because he’s a Masshole. Look at Dunleavy as a player, where he came from, what his game was like, what made him successful. I bet that he would find that Dunleavy is a lot like Simmons, only tougher, more committed to basketball, a better athlete, more focused and disciplined. In his excellent study of the Original (and only, now) EB, I believe that Simmons beat Dunleavy in Horse or some other shooting game, and Dunleavy never paid him. I’d like to hear Dunleavy’s version of this story—and with SP and KA on the case now, there’s an important question, finally! Simmons just needs to admit the fact that Dunleavy was a much better basketball player than he ever dreamed of being, that he had the solid NBA career that Simmons spent his entire adolescence dreaming he might have, that he has held a number of jobs that Simmons has spent a fair amount of time in his adulthood dreaming about having. Who is the only GM and coach in the NBA? This isn’t a good thing, necessarily, but it represents a lot of power in the league that Simmons obsesses on. We shouldn’t worry about Simmons. He gets paid to zhiv, to dream, to make it up as he goes along, he’s not accountable for anything, his only responsibility is to entertain us and to take care of his family. His primary concern is for himself.
His wild-arsed theories about what to do about the Clippers don’t have anything to do with reality. He needs to quiet down and focus on the shifting tides. We (our Jax contingent) want management to apologize for certain mistakes, but has Simmons said stated clearly that he was wrong about the Randolph trade, when he was certain that MDSr’s most grievous sin was trading for a horrible reprobate who is completely untradeable—and he had KA backing him up? No, he just blames Chris Wallace, another one of his incompetent GMs. But the truth is that Randolph spent an unfortunate but well-meaning year on the Clips, where he was far from being the primary problem, and his arrival allowed the franchise to stay credible and progress, and he is now a nice two-year player on the Grizzlies, giving them something that they badly needed. Chris Wallace isn’t a sucker for taking ZBo. Zbo is an asset with an outsized contract who was traded twice. So Simmons can start, before he writes the in-depth Dunleavy study, and goes to eat doughnuts with him in a receptive frame of mind like he did with Baron Davis, by apologizing for some of the things he said about the Randolph trade.
And the same thing is true with Donald Sterling. I’m not sure that Simmons was an STH when the articles ran about DTS’ real estate empire and his business philosophy. It’s very simple: never sell. Instead of coming up with hare-brained ideas of how to pry the Clippers away from DTS—about as easy to resolve as getting the Ayatollahs out of Iran—, again, Simmons should study DTS in depth, get beyond the deeply problematic racist and morality issues, which are tawdry and tired, and study his business acumen and rise: just how is it that a mediocre LA doctor becomes a multi-billionaire? It’s pretty simple, Simmons: mortgage the new book, the ESPN site, the two kids, and buy real estate, apartment buildings, downtown, over there in your hipster Silver Lake Eastside location NOW. Not tomorrow, TODAY. Clean it up, rent it out, make it decent and liveable and nice (increase its value with repairs and good management), and just hold onto it. Then buy some more.
It’s nice that Simmons gets paid for his MDSr diatribes and his fantasies about the team going nuts and blowing up under new ownership. But I like the real world better, you know, since that’s where things happen and that’s where we live. I like Jax and think he knows the game, but he’s a broken record waiting for things to change that just aren’t going to. Simmons isn’t so different. In the real world, we can hope that MDSr, who is not exactly the root of all evil, he’s more of a mixed bag, is successful and finds a way to kick himself upstairs under a new deal. The reptilian DTS can’t live forever, and does anyone have any idea about the succession plan for his empire? There’s a good journalistic question. We know all about Jeannie Buss and the kid who embarassed himself accepting the trophy, and of course Jerry Buss should pay 80 million, 40 to Lamar and 40 to the league, just because it’s the Lakers—but that’s money that Buss, the gambler, isn’t leaving behind for anybody, and his estate will be miniscule in comparison to Sterling’s.
Where are the Clippers headed in the longterm? One question is where the NBA is headed, but probably more important is the question of who will inherit Donald Sterling’s billions. If Simmons makes nice and plays his cards right and becomes a devotee, DTS just might leave him the team. Now that’s a plan.
On to my take on what Simmons had to say.
His first bullet on the Clippers is all positive: they had a great off-season, and the future looks bright. "They have a killer under-22 foundation..., a fun team for this season... and a super-intriguing cap situation next summer." I agree (except that they owe more than $35M, but more on that later). Interestingly, he also asks of Mark Madsen "have they ever had a towel-waving chemistry guy?" when Celtic fan Simmons should clearly remember that Cornbread Maxwell, the guy who invented towel-waving, was a Clipper. Minus 1.
His second bullet is solid - he breaks out a great stat about MDsr. "In the history of the NBA, only six people have coached more than 300 games consecutively for the same franchise and won less than 40 percent of those games. Incredibly, Dunleavy is the only person who accomplished this 'feat' for two franchises." Wow. That's a stat! Back in April, Citizen eastie Rich and I came up with some pretty solid stats in a similar vein - coaches who held onto their job in spite of dismal records. But coming up with a set of numbers that isolates Dunleavy as the only guy who shows up twice? That's good work.
It's also at least a little disingenuous. Seeing Fitch on the list for his Clippers tenure caught my attention, since he was also on my list of the worst two season stints with the same team, and eR's list of the worst 6 season stints - both achieved while he was in Cleveland. So why isn't Fitch on Simmons' list twice, once with the Cavs and once with the Clippers? Well, BECAUSE he kept his job in Cleveland, he was able to win some games there over the course of 9 seasons, and barely squeaked out a .412 career winning percentage with the Cavs. But he clearly had a 300 game stretch below 40%. In fact, his record for his first four seasons in Cleveland (that's 328 games) was 99-229 - barely above 30%. So as of now, Simmons is applying a different set of rules to MDsr than he's applying to Fitch - he uses Fitch's career winning percentage with Cleveland to keep him off the list, but MDsr's career winning percentage with the Clippers is unknown, since he's still the coach. With a current mark of .394 and Blake Griffin, he's got a pretty good chance to get himself off the list the way Fitch did - so it may not be the 'Wilt's 100 point game' record Simmons thinks it is. (FYI, by my math MDsr would have to go 36-46 in a full season this year to get his career winning percentage with the Clippers above 40.)
It's still a fascinating stat, and almost all stats are fudged one way or another to make the author's point, so I don't begrudge him his Fitch shenanigans too much. But here's my real point - this says much more about the TEAM employing him than it does about the coach. Why don't more coaches have bad records over the course of 300 plus games with the same team? It's not because there aren't enough bad coaches out there. It's because they're not employed by the same team that long. When I post about how Dunleavy should be replaced, it's more a criticism of the team than of Dunleavy.
By the way, Fitch won NBA coach of the year twice, won an NBA title in Boston, and was named one of the 10 greatest coaches in NBA history in 1997 (while coaching the Clippers). FWIW.
Zhiv's point about Doc Rivers is well taken as well. Simmons first and really only love in the NBA is Boston. When the Clippers made a nice playoff run in 2006, he allowed himself to get a little interested (of course, the Celtics won 33 games that year and 24 the next, so he was in the market for a winner); but even at the height of Clippermania (if you can call it that) Simmons likened the Clippers to his mistress, while he remained married to Boston. At the end of their 24 win season in April 2007 Simmons said things about Rivers' contract extension that sound suspiciously similar to things he says about Dunleavy now. Fourteen months later the Celtics were hanging their 18th banner, and Simmons had decided that maybe Rivers wasn't so bad after all. Funny how that works.
All the Dunleavy bashing took on a more menacing tone for me when I listened to this Simmons appearance on the Colin Cowherd show. After Dunleavy called Simmons a 'joke writer' and a 'joke', Simmons came on the show and... well, let's just say it's hard to dismiss any of this as good-natured kidding at this point. These guys do NOT like each other.
Backtracking on that meme a bit, the radio spat in question grew out of the Sports Guy's oh so hilarious "Open Letter to Blake Griffin" prior to the draft, in which he advises Blake Superior to 'run for your life.' As long as I'm pointing out problems with Simmons' pop culture references ('Almost Famous' and towel-waving) and statistical analysis (Fitch and $35M), let's set the record straight on something from that post as well.
How many times have we seen a horror movie or a Western in which someone desecrated sacred Indian territory in some way? Does it ever turn out well for them? Ever? Hell, even the Amityville Horror house was built over a sacred burial ground.
FAIL! The Amityville Horror house was the site of a killing spree in which a man murdered six members of his family. It was the house in Poltergeist that was built over a cemetary. More importantly, where have I heard this idea before? This idea that a Clippers curse might somehow be related to the desecration of a native American burial ground, complete a movie tie-in? Oh, I know. From this post from October 2006 (the 30th post in the history of Clips Nation, so there's a pretty good chance that most of you have never seen it). So Simmons messed up his movie reference AND stole my idea! Besides, the idea that the Clippers are cursed for NOT calling themselves the Braves seems counter-intuitive. Aren't teams actually being told to stop using native American mascots and logos because they re-enforce racial stereotypes? At least the Clippers were never tempted to create their version of Atlanta's Chief Noc-A-Homa.
Moving on.
Simmons third idea about the Clippers is the most interesting, though also the least accurate. He suggests that some billionaire or other should wildly overpay Donald Sterling for the team and then change the name, the coach, the general manager, the uniforms... presumably everything except Ralph. And he thinks that owner would have a great chance of getting LeBron James to sign in LA next summer.
It's a valid point. It would be astoundingly simple for a new owner to completely change the aura around the Clippers simply by virture of NOT being Donald Sterling - the net value of the franchise would rise immediately on that alone. Perhaps it's not quite that simple, but if a new owner and new management made some good moves and won some games, they would immediately be dubbed the 'anti-Clippers', there would be an avalanche of publicity about how things were different, and the other LA team would suddenly become a great NBA destiination. Don't believe me? Well, just a few short years ago, about the only team in the NBA consider more dysfunctional than the Clippes was Portland, where Paul Allen had done major damage to the economics of the league by wildly overpaying for anyone and everyone, and in the process built one of the most expensive, most felonious, and least successful teams in history. With a new GM and a new coach (and some great draft picks of course), they're now the darlings of the league - and that's with the same owner. So yeah, a new regime, if the team were to win games, would be an instant smash.
This new owner scenario has Simmons dreaming of being a season ticket holder in 2010 and watching a team of "LeBron, Gordon, Baron, Griffin, Kaman and Secondary Marquee Free Agent X." But Simmons plays fast and loose with the numbers here. His $35M cap estimate is unrealistic; it assumes that Telfair declines his player option and that the Clippers don't exercise their option on Al Thornton, both of which are highly doubtful. Of course, even if those things happened, you still can't get to $35M - there are cap holds to consider, and he's at almost $33M just for the four players he wants to put next to LeBron. The reality, as we've discussed before, is that with the salary cap expected to decrease, the Clippers won't even be able to offer a maximum deal to LeBron, let alone pay him AND another free agent. It would be more realistic to suggest that the Clippers would trade Camby, Ricky Davis, Mark Madsen and Mardy Collins for LeBron at the deadline. At least the math works on that deal.
Oh man, am I behind on my paper now.
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85 comments
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Comments
Not Bill Fitch
If you waste as much time off topic in your paper as you did here on Bill Fitch you flunk. The only pertinent point is Dunleavy’s outrageous numbers and his pathetic coaching job here even allowing for the injuries. He’s a loser and has a much bigger playbook then any winner. He screams and yells and inserts himself therefore into the game and screws up the fine tuned instincts which he’s been teaching his players . He’s lost their respect. He’s not talking their language. And he overreaches as in Iverson, Randolph, Dunleavy Jr. and his difficulty coaching anything that’s not his perfect picture team which he’s never had and wouldn’t know if he did. See Korelev and his blowing the resigning of Brand (which now seems for the better). For the Clippers the major similarity between coaches Fitch and Dunleavy is that Sterling resigned them against all professional advice and then lived to regret it being stuck with them as he is now. Dunleavy has done ok now putting the current team together but I’ll bet in truth Olshey should get a lot of credit. Note: Sterling’s Clipper history includes taking advice from strangers on the street who talk trash (but he still doesn’t know basketball).
I believe it's been shown that Sterling wanted Iverson not Dunleavy....but I get your point.
But really whatever. F**k the stats. No matter what you throw out he’s still here and will get another stab at it. If he succeeds and leads this team to success then great. If not then you get your wish of a new coach.
by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 29, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way I liked the post Steve
Funny and love when you point out other reporters/writers knocking off your work.

Chief Noc-A-Homa!
by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 29, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry sir...
But I pretty vehemently disagree. I’ve written many posts on the subject of MDsr’s futility. If that’s ‘the only pertinent point’, then email Simmons and tell him it’s been done. But if he’s allowed to keep chiming in, then I feel entitled as well. And I’m not one to blindly accept fudged numbers, so to me the Fitch information is crucial. I give me an A+!
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 29, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
To me,
the key aspec of Simmons’ third idea is not whether they could sign Lebron under the cap, but rather how easy it could be to change the culture of this team right now in a way that takes advantage of the 2010 focus of other teams. As you note, the value issue (which really is a point I first brought up in another post in the other Simmons post below) is an interesting idea, and it could at least conceivably apply to DTS. The irony of it all is that it is only possible because the Clippers got lucky and were awarded the number one pick.
But Sterling's not selling
So the point is moot. Unfortunately, since he’s the common link to the franchise’s history of futility, one might hope that a new coach and new GM could change the perception – but as long as Sterling was the owner, it wouldn’t happen.
The irony here of course is that MDsr is the person who has done the most to improve the perception of the Clippers in the team’s 33 year history, though you and Bill Simmons don’t want to admit that. Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be replaced, but the perception problem is much bigger than him.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 29, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
My focus was slightly different
I was focused on DTS actually being motivated by the substantially increased value in the event that the team moves forward with a new coach, outlook, etc., and ends up with a winning season. The chance of such drastically increased value might justify whatever additional salary the new coach would be paid.
I don’t understand your second point. Is the perception of the Clippers to anyone except for us lost souls any better now than it was before MDSr? Sorry, but I don’t really see it. Seems to me the team is still referred to or thought of as the worst team in sports by most casual observers. And with good reason given the under .400 winning percentage the past few years. I would agree with you that the perception amongst Clippers wonks like us may be slightly better than before, and that the perception has generally gotten better this summer, but ironically that’s because the team only won 19 games last year and got lucky and got the first pick.
Maybe your perception has changed due to your new found interactions with the team and MDSr. Is it still your position that he should be fired as coach?
The perception league wide began shifting
especially after the playoff run. But they obviously backslid. Especially last year.
I think you are right about DTS bring motivated because we have seen it the past 7 years. You can’t say he hasn’t opened up the wallet since Dunleavy came around.
It seems as if your crusade against MDSr. to be replaced as coach is the majority opinion around here. I think you go a little far in laying the state of the team at his feet in terms of his work as GM. I think replacing “management” at this point would be a set-back, especially because who the hell knows who Sterling will bring in. But I’m all for a new coach.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Thanks mikey
It’s not a crusade. It’s my desire for the Clippers to increase their chances of winning.
Crusade, for lack of a better word, I guess
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
"Is it still your position that he should be fired as coach?"
Should have been – clearly. Wasn’t. Certainly not going to happen before the season starts.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 30, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
my thoughts on MDS
were any of you who want coach gone, fans of the clippers for any amount of time before he was hired? if youve been around as long as i have, you can almost pinpoint the time the clippers organization went from complete joke of an organization, a punchline, and deservedly so, to a legitamte franchise. a team with potential, a team that wasnt afraid to pay players. a team on the rise and a team with a future. a team with a bandwagon even. and yes, a team with very bad luck nontheless. sometimes seems almost cursed. its when mds came in. first he got sterling to shell out his first EVER big money free agent signing with mobley. people around the league raised some eyebrows, but we were still the same old clips. and then again with brand and magette(lets not forget it was coach who was convincing sterling these were the guys he wouldnt regret paying). and after those 2 multiyear huge contract signings, the organization was truly no longer the red headed step child of the nba. they were for real and had become legitamit. you dont know how good that felt as a clipper fan. then the fairytale playoff run. the best season we clipper fans have ever experienced. tv shows, newspapers et al were all talking clipper basketball, and how well this team was put together and young and looked like wed be a force to rekon with for years to come. once again, legitamit. we became a team people followed. we even had the country thinking we landed kobe, and everyone everywhere believed it. kobe….to the CLIPPERS….. and there wasnt even a joke at the end. people believed it and were genuinly ready to have deal with the la clippers being a nba powerhouse. i mean just the fact that we were talked and thought of like this is a blessing as a clipper fan. again i credit coach for all of this. he doesnt make excuses, hes loyal and professional, and genuinly happy and proud to be here. things that us old timers can really appreciate. and on top of this, the guy has had to deal with all the bad karma, jokes, and luck that comes with this team. i mean the injuries to livingston, brand, kaman,et all… the brand/philly fiasco… and the way he has done his all and to perserveer through it and after everything giving us this fun, exciting, young, new look roster that all of us fans are anxiously awaiting to see. and make some solid picks with kaman thornton gordon taylor dj. im not forgetting his huge mistakes, notably korolev, and plenty of other blunders throught his tenure here, but as a clipper fan, how cant you be pulling for this guy to finally get this team healthy and winning??
Wait, teamfiend...
That was a really excellent post, and I’m 99 percent on your side in this. I’ve been a Clipper fan since the Larry Brown years and watched a lot of front office stupidity, and I am incredibly grateful for Mike Dunleavy and the way he has almost singlehandedly changed the Clipper culture (the one thing you left out was Dunleavy’s demand that DTS build a first class practice facility… that event alone might be the thing that brings the Clippers respect inside the player’s community). But… it’s your last line, “how cant (sic) you be pulling for this guy to finally get this team healthy and winning?”
Hmm… I’ve read a lot of posts on this board and others and I think there’s a fundamental mistake here. What MDsr did in the early and middle part of this decade to change the Clipper culture is undeniable… and none of us want to go back to what came before. But before we declare the Clippers fixed (and canonize Mike Dunleavy), they need to establish a permanent culture of winning. And Dunleavy has failed at this task. There’s simply no other way to look at it.
I’ve also made the accusation, aimed at Jax and others, that they’ve taken a “Limbaugh” approach, and gotten to the point where they actually WANT the team to fail in order to facilitate the end of Dunleavy’s tenure. The problem with that point of view is that, in general, I don’t think it’s true. I think Jax, Simmons, even Steve Perrin will grudgingly re-enter the Dunleavy fold if and when the team succeeds under his guidance (I don’t think that’s true of one-dimensional fans like the firedunleavy guy, but he’s already sold his soul to promote his narrow quest).
It’s important to remember everyone on this board is a Clipper fan, critical, analytical, impatient… but there’s an important difference between pulling for someone’s success and believing that that same someone is fundamentally incapable of that success… and another important difference when you wish that person failure to prove your point. I haven’t seen that last level of cynicism (much) around here, and I am constantly on the lookout.
In support of your argument, I would LOVE it if Mike Dunleavy returned this team to winning ways. I AM pulling for him to make that happen. But last year was horrible…and, beyond the injuries, I think Dunleavy lost touch with the team. Can he regain himself? I don’t know. I hope so. I think he deserves one more shot. But only one.
by swamigusto on Jul 30, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dunleavy is on there twice...
and both times, in Milwaukee and for the Clippers, he was the general manager. That is the definition of a man who has ruined a franchise. Yes, I understand your part about building it up by getting Sterling to spend money, and I will give him credit for that. BUT DUNLEAVY lost the trust of his players a few years ago AND our supposed franchise player Brand bolted because DUNLEAVY decided to do the negotiations on his own and low-ball Brand, rather than dealing with his agent. Yes, screw Brand and welcome Griffin but we had that exciting year and then everything went to hell right back and he hasn’t brought us back and we, the players too, need a new coach and direction. fire his sorry ass.
Excellent Post Swami
For me it all comes down to predictions about his future performance based on past performance. At bottom, I don’t think he’s a good coach. Not only is that borne out by the horrible W-L record during his tenure, but also just by watching the games. I am not a big fan of reactive coaching; nor am I a fan of predictable plodding iso offenses. And what used to be his “hallmark,” defensive sets, was gone last year. I also think his defensiveness, macho toughness and his willingness to engage his owner and players in public debates is juvenile and unhelpful. While I hope he turns it around, I’m not holding out much hope.
As a GM you really have to look at W-L too. And there are two areas of primary importance to me in terms of past performance as a reliable predictor of future performance. The first is his inability for five of the past six years to put together a team that works well with the coach, again as evidenced by W-L. For example, why sign BD to a $65 M contract if you aren’t going to allow him to do what he does best? I also think that his inability to retain key players, such as Elton Brand, is unforgiveable. I predicted in March 2008 that Brand would walk given what was then happening with the team. As it turns out, we were lucky not to retain him, but this does not bode well for the future.
Contrary to what John R and Son suggest, I don’t hate MDSr. Nor are my posts on the subject one-dimensional. They just come from a viewpoint that is different than theirs.
Small point
I’ve seen this opinion a few times here:
why sign BD to a $65 M contract if you aren’t going to allow him to do what he does best?
The problem I have with this is that we all (well more or less) agreed with the signing at the time and we were assuming that Elton Brand (and his ISO offense) was going to be around. Also, it seems to pin more of the blame on Davis’s horrible trainwreck of a season on somebody other than Baron Davis. Davis looked fat, shot the ball horribly and seemingly lost the ability to drive and even dunk. Ya, I guess some of that could be coaching, but a more likely culprit for this is Baron himself.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
It may be a combination of things
But there is no denying that MDSr said at the time of the signing that he would run uptempo, and there is no denying that he didn’t do that, and there is no denying that BD was unhappy about it, and there is no denying that MDSr lost the team.
I also think that BD may have lost a step.
If the GM is signing a player based on the mistaken impression that he would play with another player who ends up jumping ship, whose fault is that? As I indicated above, even I predicted EB would walk several months earlier.
Bottom line, MDSr is not only the coach but the GM. Doesn’t the buck stop with him?
Yes
I don’t entirely blame him for EB leaving (if anything, now, I thank him). But the rest of what you say is true.
Signing Davis was a good GM move. Restraining him offensively was a bad coaching move. Which is why MDSr. probably shouldn’t be both at this point. He did lose the team, beginning with his PG, who became instantly depressed that he was unable to have fun on the court like he did in G State.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Couldn't have fun?
Screw him. I didn’t have fun watching him run up to the three point line and fire off brick after brick. A dude who just got a 5 year $65MM contract was depressed; is there no professionalism at all?
MDsr as a coach. Fire him (just make sure you don’t replace him with some washed up retread like Alvin Gentry.)
I just wanted to point out Baron’s blame in this mess. The dude sucked last year and I would call him actually untradeable (unlike players who it turns out weren’t untradeable at all.) I just find it shocking that there isn’t more indignation about Baron dropping a deuce on the court last year and that we have him for another 4 glorious years. And since Bill Simmons again discussed the presence of his breakfast buddy Baron as though it would be a positive in landing Lebron, I found it appropriate to express my displeasure with the current PG.
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Re BD
Are you really surprised mwhite? That’s his game, that’s always been his game, and that always will be his game. You must take the bad with the good. He was likely promised that he’d be able to run here too.
By the way, basketball is a game. It’s supposed to be fun.
It is fun for me
I’m just getting a bit emotional :)
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Here's the problem with signing BD
The coach and the GM are the same person. Shouldn’t MDSr have known that signing a pg who thrives in uptempo would be a problem for him?
MDSr has to wear two hats
and if his hats are as bad as his suits, he’s in trouble!
Still
BD has to take some responsibility for his own play and his production.
My view is that the year was divided into a few different stages. BD must have reacted negatively to FElton’s departure: how could he not do that? But I don’t think that he blamed MDSr. Camby came in with injuries and a funky vibe. The Clippers were in big trouble on opening day. MDSr probably did the best he could, but the whole team was reeling.
The next phase is probably MDSrs fault. The Clips began the season in crisis mode, but MDSr showed that he wanted to take basic, conservative, baby steps, working to get a ragtag team to play the “right” way. BDavis was in what do we have to lose mode already, let’s just go out there and play. And he probably wasn’t wrong, not because MDSr had been making noises about playing “uptempo,” but because the season was doomed and experimentation and creativity were really the only miniscule chance at success. It was a good time for a shake up, for trying new things, to get rid of business as usual, because that wasn’t going to work. Instead, MDSrs conservatism and stubborness alienated BDavis. MDSr might as well have begged him to be petulant. In crisis, MDSr put the blinders on, and a bad situation got worse.
The next phase came after the Zbo trade—that turned out to be MDSrs way of shaking things up. A few good things started happening. Camby was hitting a nice stride. There were negatives, led by the injury to Kaman. MDSr stayed in stubborn form, and stuck with both Paul and Ricky Davis for too long. This was the time of “a horrible Davis problem,” I guess, with all three of the Davises killing the team. And during this time there was a subtle shift, where BDavis became part of the problem. It wasn’t just MDSrs fault. BDavis needed to play at least decent basketball, pick up his part of the bargain. And he was struggling to do that.
After that, and after the trade deadline and the All-Star break, the death march was just what it was. BDavis was a full partner in the debacle. He couldn’t turn it on, he couldn’t play better, he couldn’t play well enough to earn his salary and status as the team’s marquee player.
The good news, however, is that during this dark time MDSr and BDavis started to see eye-to-eye. BDavis knew he would have to take responsibility for his own play. MDSrs system was slowly becoming more familiar to all of the moving parts that were new to the roster. BDavis was saying “wait til next year,” and he seemed to reach an understanding with Dunleavy.
MDSr was a big problem. BDavis realized that he himself was a big problem too. They’re veterans, and they seem to have moved on. They got lucky, and the Clips got Blake Griffin. Now MDSr gets another chance. BDavis knew he had work to do, but now he has more reasons to be inspired and enthusiastic.
My sense is that BDavis would accept a fair amount of the responsibility for what happened last year. At the same time, he would say that it’s behind them, and they’re looking forward.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right
I think this is another reason why coaches and GM’s should be different people. Rather than Dunleavy being able to pull Davis aside as his coach and say “I have your back”, he was also the GM who was looking to trade him. Sometimes people need to divide into us vs. them camps in order to foster unity. That can’t happen when your coach is shopping you after practice.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
by mikey p on Jul 30, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, excellent point about the division of labor...
One guy driving, the other guy looking at a ever-shifting map. Not to denigrate Olshey or Hughes, who seem to be doing excellent jobs… but there needs to be another voice equal to MDSr.’s.
I really have zero to desire to engage with you on this particular Dunleavy debate any longer, but you just wrote something about me that really increases my ire. You write that I suggested that you "hate" Dunleavy. Show me one single post where I ever used that word. Or suggested that word. Or came even close to suggesting that word. My feedback to your posts (which has been well documented elsewhere) is something entirely different, which is that your opinions are repetitive, tiresome and generally counter-productive. Whether we agree or disagree on that point is not the issue in this reply. What is the issue here is that my historical feedback to you has been entirely different from accusing you of "hating" someone.
Please don’t put words – explicit or suggested – in my mouth. That’s not cool to misrepresent someone else’s point of view to try to make your own case. I don’t do that to you, so please don’t do that to me.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Jul 30, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Relax
You’re right – you repeatedly say my opinions are repetitive. No one is misrepresenting you. If I threw you in there with John R by mistake, I apologize.
Actually, you’ve never engaged substantively with me on the MDSr debate insofar as I can recall. All you’ve said is that my opinion is repetitive. Out of curiosity, what’s your opinion? If you are not interested in responding, can you point us to an old post where you’ve stated your opinion?
So Son, I went back and searched your posts where you mention my name . . .
And as far as I can tell, you’ve never engaged me at all in this debate. Ever. Feel free to do so.
But I did read the posts, and although I’ve ignored them historically, since you’ve stated your opinion regarding my posts, “repetitive, tiresome, and generally counter-productive [to what I’m not sure],” I thought I’d give you my opinion regarding your posts as they relate to me.
What I take from your posts about me is that you’re somewhat obsessed and that you aren’t a big fan. Which is ok, but I wonder why you care.
For example, you’ve repeatedly compared me to our former President – W. Inexplicable. See, for example:
http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/4/24/851844/share-your-thoughts-eric-gordon#14854671
http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/3/12/794867/it-s-been-an-interesting-c#13025687
Kind of funny b/c I’m not a big fan of W, but I digress.
You also accused me of chanting anti-Dunleavy slogans at games (likely a joke, but still):
http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/4/1/819172/new-orleans-104-clippers-98#13640783
You clearly have an issue (for some reason) whenever I pass on info I’ve heard from people who have access to the Clippers. For example:
http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/2/24/770109/bill-simmons-on-baron-davi#12487731
And you’’ve provided several general posts about how much you dislike my posts:
http://www.clipsnation.com/2008/9/12/599752/is-elton-brand-right-are-t#8757260
You say: “As evidenced by your numerous confrontational and inane posts, you are the epitome of someone who is looking for a fight on these boards. If you’re going to be obnoxious, at least make the effort to avoid being a hypocrite.”
The point, Son, is as I said in response to another denigrating post of yours that you don’t have to respond to anything that I say or that anyone else says on this board. In life, we often run across people whose opinions we don’t like, and who just rub us the wrong way. I can say that John R does that to me at times. But at bottom all of us are Clipper fans, and we have strong opinions because we care about the direction of the team.
Let’s see if we can move forward, shall we?
I like it
I don’t like the mild brawling, but I do enjoy seeing Jax do some legwork. The longer his posts are, the better, as far as I’m concerned. Substance is much better that the quick hits back and forth.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
"...you’re somewhat obsessed and that you aren’t a big fan."
Uh… what in the name of all that is sane would lead you to accuse me of not being a big fan? Just because I don’t post as often as you? Because my word count isn’t as high as yours? Because I don’t share my opinions about the team on this site as much as you do? Next you’ll tell me that your dad can beat up my dad.
But seriously, there is a saying in business about employees who confuse activity with accomplishment. You are obviously confusing those on this site who talk the most with those who have the most to say. Often — not always, but often — those are two very different groups.
And as for being obsessed… don’t flatter yourself. You’re not that important to the discussion.
Just keep digging, Jax… You can’t help yourself… but you’re only making the hole deeper for yourself.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Jul 30, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you for the sentiments, Son
Unfortunately, you completely misunderstood my post – when I said you weren’t a big fan, I meant that you weren’t a big fan of me. Your post above would seem to support that.
I’d wait for the apology, but I suspect that it will never come.
I would offer you again to for once engage in the debate instead of post after post nonsensically attacking me.
While I do appreciate what Dunleavy has done… it’s almost what any legitimate coach/GM should have done.
It’s like a woman getting the first boyfriend that doesn’t abuse her – she’s so grateful the guy is the barest gentleman that she’ll accept all his other flaws.
I do think Dunleavy is a pretty good GM and I do think he has a sharp basketball mind… but his personality is just so negative and petty that it pains me to see him on the sidelines.
The guy has a playbook ten miles thick, drills the guys over and over and over on the minutae of game tape, yells and shrieks on the sidelines on every play and has this absurdly irritating need to “prove” he is smarter than everyone else (see Ewing, Daniel).
He’d be a great college coach but this is the NBA. You have to guide your players in terms of team mindset, culture and conditioning but on the court you let them play.
'Almost Famous'
Great movie. Defining movie of this or any other decade? Not even close. His even thinking so makes me completely re-evaluate Simmons.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Some Clipper Mythology
The interesting thing in this thread for me is its reflection of certain events hardening into the latest pieces of Clipper mythology.
The one that stands out for me is the idea that Dunleavy inserted himself into the negotiations for FElton and that he’s somehow primarily responsible for that deal going south. This may be the opinion of Jax and some others, and I don’t have any problem with Jax himself holding that view, and its consistent with his general “change the management that won’t change” approach, but it’s not something that should be accepted as a simple statement of fact. Some of us hold the view that Dunleavy and the Clippers got Falked, that there was an understanding between Dunleavy and FElton and Baron Davis, and Falk convinced FElton that he needed to take care of himself and his family and maximize his value. We’re never going to know the whole truth. It’s not as if the karma of MDSr or FElton has been especially good since the event, although that doesn’t mean anything of course, but, well, you know, the Clips did get the Blake Griffin pick and all, and MDSr has a shot at redemption.
The failures of the team on the court last year are hardening into mythology as well, but we need to remember that there is still a substantial amount of gray area. MDSr is at fault in some respects, but Baron Davis is hardly an innocent, aggrieved party. We don’t know how to read Kaman any better than we ever have, which is not at all. The coach and GM issue is hardly cut-and-dried—it’s a process.
We’ll see how it goes.
Here's the issue
IMO, when you are a GM, and you are negotiating directly with a player, when you know the player has an agent, you really cannot be sure that you have a deal because the agent has not blessed the deal. You’ve got to know the agent will become involved at some point. Particularly when strong-willed agents like David Falk are involved.
It’s the same thing as clients negotiating directly a deal or settlement directly where one of the clients has an attorney. Sure, the clients can negotiate, but the fact that one of the clients has an attorney has to be taken into account as something that might materially modify the deal.
Falk’s point that you shouldn’t be negotiating behind the agent’s back is a good one I think. And remember it was Falk who first blew MDSr’s cover as the de facto GM of the Clippers, in part to counter MDSr’s argument that he was just the coach talking to the player (which would have been more acceptable I guess). Wasn’t MDSr arguing to the public that he was “only the coach talking to the player” as a way to try to make it seem that this was informal negotiations? Please. Falk’s disclosure was later proven accurate by the disclosures in Elgin Baylor’s lawsuit.
I continue to sometimes think that BD and EB knew EB was leaving all along and that they set this up to get BD paid. I don’t think EB needed much convincing. I think they played the Clippers to get a higher offer from Philly. And the fact that MDSr was negotiating directly allowed Falk to pull the “don’t negotiate behind my back card.”
I was thinking the same thing, though, Zhiv. For example, we’ve never seen the supposed text messages . . .
"Falk’s point that you shouldn’t be negotiating behind the agent’s back is a good one I think."
I think a blanket statement like this is pretty dumb.
The word agent is a funny one. I think your statement is true if the agent has his client’s best interest when negoatiating. This isn’t always the case. In fact, it is probably rarely the case. Often, the economic interests of the client and the player are not actually aligned.
Frankly, Falk’s primary motivations in this instance likely had little to do with Elton Brand’s best interest. Falk’s interests were probably:
1a. Reassert himself as an NBA agent as his relevence has been slipping into nothingness
1b. As a corollary of that but a separate motivation, screw the Clippers because we have ample evidence he has a hatred for the team that predates Dunleavy
2. Make as much money for himself as possible, as again, his time of importance is almost over
Instead, he ended up getting Brand ever-so-slightly more money while banishing him to a franchise that just lost its second best player because it was cheap and unwilling to pay his market value, just lost its coach because…well that was probably Elton Brand’s fault, in a nothing market where he appears to be negatively correlated with his team’s success.
Its too bad. If you didn’t irrationally hate Dunleavy you would be able to see all sides of these issues. In fact in this case, Falk probably screwed Elton Brand and he would have been better off not even HAVING an agent. At 4%, Falk’s fee is almost 600k per year. The difference between the offers would have been about 1M per year. So what, Elton Brand is taking home 400k per year more for Falk having gotten him a marginally higher contract? While that is certainly not chump change, color me unimpressed with the power of this agent. His participation made more money for HIMSELF than it did for his client. And Falk is the Good Guy here? Please…
But even so, the Clippers came out ahead. I know I would personally rather have Blake Griffin than Elton Brand, even assuming they are both healthy.
I'll take John R's points in turn
He thinks my point is dumb – well ok, then. Too bad, because I like John R and I think that he’d have something to contribute if he would just for once consider the other side of the issue.
He thinks agents rarely have the clients’ best interests at heart. Pretty cynical, and inaccurate. That comment comes from someone who probably doesn’t interact much with agents.
He thinks Falk had ulterior motives. Who knows. That is the standard MDSr defense, though. IMO pretty pathetic when the de facto secret GM getting paid $5 M / year to protect the interests of the Clippers has to come out in the press defending his failure to get the job done with EB because EB’s big mean agent stopped him from secretly negotiating behind the agent’s back with his client. By the way, I would imagine that there is something in the NBA rules somewhere that prevents GMs from negotiating directly with players who are known to have agents. Because of problems like this.
He thinks this is all about money. Well, it isn’t. EB didn’t want to play for MDSr and the Clippers. Get over it.
He thinks Philly made a mistake in not resigning an older Andre Miller. Ok, Miller’s old and up and coming Lou Williams can play the point and they have some up and coming wings. I’m sure they’ll be fine. Not sure what that has to do with this.
He thinks I “irrationally hade Dunleavy.” Not the case at all.
He thinks Falk screwed EB. Doubt it. Just ask EB, who’s happy to be in Philly. Again, it ain’t all about money. Which is why GMs are so important.
He thinks the Clippers came out ahead. On that point we agree. But it had nothing to do with MDSr.
Pretty interesting discussion
Gotta like the substance.
The answer is obviously somewhere right in the middle between these two well-stated points of view.
Falk was very self-serving. Where is he this year, when no one has money? Is he trying to line up somebody for next year’s sweepstakes, or is he done?
MDSr seems to think that he did everything right in trying to reach an agreement, but he played his own role in a botched negotiation, and it was the start of a bad cold spell. Or the continuation of one, as the injuries, the losses, and frustrations mounted steadily.
Again, it’s the classic dark beauty of Clipperdom that it’s actually so hard to imagine a universe where MDSr keeps his job. Bill Simmons, for one, can’t handle it. But the situation starts with Donald T. Sterling and his billions, the man who has made it all possible. Follow the money, my friends.
Speaking of important movies, regardless of whether they define a decade, nice LAT article today about “The Achievers,” the catchy name for Big Lebowski zealots. As Citizens of the Great Clips Nation, I think we are all worthy of calling ourselves, as a group, “the Achievers.”
And as the story of The Big Lebowski is about “the Dude” who has the same name as the other, larger, seemingly more important Lebowski, I think we might need a similar Donald T. Sterling story, some young zhiver who has the same name as Dark Lord of Clipperdom and enters his twisted world.
Good J-School assignment, right after writing the “Bill Simmons and Journalism Today” paper.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
My wife hasn't seen the movie
and I can’t find it anywhere to rent. May just have to buy it.
Nice sidetrack.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
A guy I knew in college once made the comment about the Big Lebowski:
" I love this movie. It just all makes sense. "
by Michael White on Jul 30, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
The dude
the dude abides
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jul 30, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
jax
i have to disagree with your last sentence getting the #1 pick had everything to do with MD.sr. he coached this team to 19 wins and the lottery again .let’s give him credit for that.
LOL
True that cars50!
Does anybody else ever question whether Mike Dunleavy were second doubted himself and though Ricky Rubio should have been #1? I always thought Dunleavy had a love affair with foreign players..
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
I think his love affair with forgein players ended when
Korolov broke his heart lol
In Gordon we trust
as a result MD Sr. effed up this train
Sorry, going for a quick fix of Zach Randolph was not the answer. Yes, we have Griffin now and yes we are rid of Randolph but those are both LUCK and as a Clipper fan you know luck hasn’t really shined on us to ever expect it to happen. That was a bad move by MD Sr., one of many.
Sorry CSP
I gave it a day and there are no new ideas here.
Here’s one:
No MDSr = No Clipsnation.com
Discuss.
Clipper Math!
Why did it take so long for us to realize we need scientific notation and simple equations?!
Luddzhivite can’t figure out how to write square roots and exponents, etc. on his keyboard.
Falk times FElton minus Maggs plus Gordon divided by Baron Davis times Tim Thomas times Ricky Davis plus Marcus Camby, over MDSr squared plus Donald Sterling minus Al Thornton times Chris Kaman plus a yacht, a motorhome, and Kim Hughes. Subtracted from Zach Randolph plus the “heart” of Cat Mobley plus Mardy Collins times DeAndre Jordan.
Times Blake Griffin.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
(Falk times FElton minus Maggs plus Gordon divided by Baron Davis times Tim Thomas times Ricky Davis plus Marcus Camby, over MDSr squared plus Donald Sterling minus Al Thornton times Chris Kaman plus a yacht, a motorhome, and Kim Hughes. Subtracted from Zach Randolph plus the "heart" of Cat Mobley plus Mardy Collins times DeAndre Jordan.)^10
Real lull in activity
Things moving very slowly. It has been very quiet for awhile.
Probably need SP to sign off and say he’s going somewhere.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Odom back to the Lakers
Don’t know how Steve is involved, though.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Did it myself
Read the brief note above and thought—I should have said “around the whole league, nothing has happened.”
Hopped over to ESPN and LO signed with the Lakers.
Too bad.
by citizen zhiv on Jul 30, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
I thought he would go to Miami. He should have. They were giving Lamar everything they could. The Lakers made him eat a poop sandwhich, and they threw an extra turd on it as penalty for not saying thanks (or something like that).
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
You're right objectively
I was just teasing zhiv a bit. I had always thought that he’d never leave given his personality.
Aug. 1
Aug 1 seems to be the date teams are waiting for. That’s when Bowen’s contract becomes guaranteed, which will give teams like the Clips and Knicks a better idea of whether or not they might match a Sessions contract.
I’m going to venture to guess the Knicks make a decision by Monday and the picture will be a lot more clear after that. Either they’ll just sign Sessions, or they’ll go with Tinsley and Sessions will be a Clipper.
Are you asking why he'd prefer the Knicks?
Then yes b/c he’d start and play for a coach who is a PG’s dream. What PG wouldn’t want to play for D’Antoni? Baron would put up ridiculous numbers in that system.
In NY he gets to play big minutes, on a huge stage, for a great coach. In LA he has to play for a crappy org (this is how everyone else sees us), and fight for minutes with 2 other PGs in a system that isn’t really all that fun or particularly effective.
I’d say the choice is pretty clear.
haha me too
In fact, if I were any PG trying to resurrect his career, I’d target the Knicks. That’s probably why Tinsley is so desperate to sign there.
So, wait, MG, you think the Knicks are going to give Sessions the Full Exception?
I don’t. I don’t think the Clips want to pay it either.
Hmmm… wrong thread maybe.
No not full MLE
It doesn’t sound like either team wants to offer Sessions the full MLE. If they did, it would have happened by now. By waiting around, it seems like both teams are trying to get Sessions as cheap as possible (which makes sense from a business perspective but is also risky from a basketball perspective).
The reports (of which there are many and some are conflicting) seem to indicate that NYK will offer 4-5 years. I’m going to venture to guess at about $3 mil a year. So yes, if the Clips offer a longer contract or an extra mil or two a year, then I think they have a good shot. But assuming the offers are comparable (even if the Clips offer slightly more) then I think Sessions signs with NYK.
just one second
MadGlv- I don’t think you fully test drove that theory, man. The one about the point guards paradise or dream as you said, that dream being the New York Knicks and Mike D’s gold. To see it all quite plainly; comparing Sessions options of the Clippers v. the Knicks, we have to see it for what its is. The Knicks fun n gun style is great for the season but it is not great for a championship. Heck, WE even almost beat Mike D and his formula for fun. It comes down to what a player like sessions wants: a fling or a marriage. i can’t put my opinion on it, it’s the players choice and I don’t think there is a right and a wrong answer. What I will say; is that I’m a married man.
by Takebb909 on Jul 30, 2009 8:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Uh...we're talking about the Clips here...
Trying to claim anything the Clips do is a recipe for long term success (which I’m assuming is your comparison to marriage) is tenous at best.
It’s not even worth talking about a championship. That’s just a stretch.
Using your analysis, if Sessions cares about “fun n gun” he’ll sign with NYK right? But if he cares about a championship, or “a marriage”, then you think he’ll sign with the Clippers? Nobody who cares about winning a championship sees the Clippers as his best chance to do so.
quite simply
… Duns style goes farther in the playoffs then Mike D’s. you need to have defense as well as some resemblence of a low post option to have a chance to go deep. you laugh off the clippers as a title contenders, which is not quite the extent that i was proclaiming for them, but nnevertheless with that notion, i ask: do the Knicks have a better chance? Do they possess more talent then the Clippers? That’s really the barometer for all of this, coach included.
by Takebb909 on Jul 31, 2009 6:14 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Dun's style has taken us far in
The playoffs. Thank God we don’t have D’Antoni.
This snark comment was not approved by Son.
by Jax on Jul 31, 2009 8:20 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Dunleavy's "style" gets us further in the playoffs than Mike D.'s. I can't agree
with that at all. And I know which one I’d rather watch. Besides, Stern screwed them over they year he suspended A.S. and (who was the other), for having their “toes” cross the line.
That was the cheapest thing I’ve ever seen the league do and it cost them the championship.
in order to "get far" in the playoffs
you need to get into the playoffs first. based on the last 5 yrs or so, one Mike D and his style of play is much better than the other at getting this first step done.
"Dunleavy pegged Simmons pretty nicely when he called him a joke writer recently."
That’s funny, I always pegged Dunleavy as a joke (of a) coach.
Simmons is a joke writer
his intention is not to analyze it is to make fun of, although some times the jokes are a type of sarcastic analysis that can be taken for some value. He is to sports writing what Jon Stewart is to news reporting, they both could do what their job is suppose to do (and if you have watched Stewart you can see that if he really wants to he can really nail someone) but they much prefer just to joke around and maybe throw in a little token analysis. And ER is right at times Dunleavy does look like a joke of a coach or at least a punch line of a bad joke.
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Jul 30, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions

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