Shaun Livingston: The Oldest 24-Year-Old in the NBA - TrueHoop By Henry Abbott - ESPN

Ross Siler (via TrueHoop) has a nice piece on Shaun Livingston.

7 months ago Steve Perrin 25 comments 1 recs |

Comments

Sure wish

They had kept him around at the minimum like they claimed they were planning to do instead of wasting two years worth of salary on Ricky freaking Davis.

Livingston would be a natural fit next to Eric Gordon. He could guard the bigger 2s while EJ guards the quicker 1s.

The Thunder were smart to pick him up for cheap last season. I courtside last season when the Thunder whooped on the Clips and Shaun threw down a nasty tomahawk alley-oop on the Clips.

I hope the Clips give him a look after this coming season. If anything, who on Clipper Nation wouldn’t like to see Shaun make a comeback in red, white and blue?

by madglove on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The Clippers renounced his contract because they needed the money to sign both Elton Brand and Baron Davis. Had that not happened, (and had they made him a minimum offer, the way they did Novak this year) he would have become a restricted free agent. Even though they didn’t make him that pre-emptive offer (which was probably prohibitively high), they still held his Bird rights, meaning they could have given him a longer contract than any other team down the line. Better for SL. But once the Clips signed Baron, Livingston flew the coop. Frankly, that was a questionable move… he wasn’t in shape to play at all last year… and he’s a backup, playing for less money, on what is arguably a lesser team this year.

by swamigusto on Jul 9, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm confused

I’m not really sure what your point was actually. Can you clarify? I’m fully aware of all the CBA implications (and just FYI, they would have needed to make him a QUALIFYING offer, not a “minimum offer” to make him a restricted FA) but what does that have to do with anything I wrote?

The reality is that after Baron and all that settled, the Clips offered him a 1 year deal at the minimum that may or may not have been fully guaranteed. The Heat gave him a better offer and he took it. And I have no idea what makes you think he’s playing for less money now. The Thunder signed him for the remainder of last season and the rest of this season, presumably also at the minimum.

As for the Thunder being a lesser team, it sure didn’t look that way when they blew us out by 30 in our house last season. I’m not really sure what the point is of the big talk. I don’t think we Clips fans are in any position to put our team above any others coming off a 19 win season while being the only bad team to not care enough and actually bring the coach back.

by madglove on Jul 9, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know madglove

I somehow believe the Clippers threw that game. No way could we have been blown out by that much. I was at that game and wow, the Clippers looked pathetic. I’m going to take a wild swing and say that they blew it to try and have a better chance at the #1 pick. (Afterall, Washington lost their game that day also so we would have a better record than Washington had we won.)

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jul 9, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if it was thrown per se

but I don’t think the team had much of a reason to try so they gave up.

In Gordon we trust

by bestclipfan on Jul 9, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not trying and giving up

is almost the same as throwing it in my opinion.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jul 9, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right...

My post should have been placed further down the thread, it wasn’t so much in response to your post as the ones following. I wanted to react, went up too far, and stuck it in the wrong place. My apologies.
But you’re right, of course it’ was a qualifying offer, not at all a minimum offer, a relatively expensive offer because he was a low first round pick… and the Clips didn’t make that offer, feeling it was too expensive.
But neither team was very good, one won 23, the other 19. And yes, that 30 point loss was grim. But my own optimism leads me to believe the Clips will be better than OKC this year… and it doesn’t change the fact that Livingston will be playing behind a young pg who OKC wants to develop into a franchise mainstay, not a guy probably on his last contract like Baron Davis. But of course that was not your initial point. Your point was that the Clips should have made him a longer offer… and in hindsight, perhaps they should have.
But the offer Shawn took was from the Heat, and, if I remember correctly it was for the minimum and not guaranteed… the same or similar to the Clippers offer.
And yeah, Sam Presti made a smart move signing Liv to a two year deal. But he didn’t do it at the beginning of the season he did it in April, AFTER Shawn had a season to recuperate and was playing well in the D league. As to whether the Clips don’t “care about their record” enough to fire Dunleavy… I don’t quite see it that way, but it’s a relevant argument that I think has nothing to do with Shawn Livingston.

by swamigusto on Jul 9, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We offered him a contract but he didn't want to be here....like so many other players.

by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 9, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yea but...

It was then reported as a minimum 1 yr. contract and there was no details as to whether it was even guaranteed. Miami offered him a better option so he took it.

But you know, then the Clips turned around and gave Ricky Davis a fully guaranteed two year deal. Awesome.

by madglove on Jul 9, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah guess so. Could of pushed a bit harder for him I suppose.

The Ricky signing seemed like it was going to be beneficial. We were worried about his character issues, but figured he’d bring some solid scoring off the bench….that didn’t work out.

by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 9, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it

was reported as more than a one year deal from the Clips..although probably not all guaranteed. Miami didn’t necessarily offer him a better deal..at least in my opinion..especially since they ended up cutting him anyway.
On the Ricky deal though, I want to say he played more games than Shaun did last year, and who knows how either of them will be holding up next season.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that Ricky played...

is NOT a plus. It’s a negative. Go look at his +/- numbers from last season. They were horrible. Shaun helped the Thunder more in the one game he played for them vs. the Clips than Ricky did in any of his games.

Ricky was a bad signing to start and I said that at the time. You don’t bring in a low character guy like that on the downside of his career and expect him to do more than jack up bad shots and collect paychecks. If Ricky was 22, I’d say his attitude is worth the potential upside. He’ll be 30 by the time the season starts.

I’m not really lambasting management, more just wishing it were a little different. They could have offered Shaun an extra year (and no, it wasn’t more than a one year deal from the Clips). But it kinda sucked for Shaun to even turn that down (as Steve wrote out in a post at that time).

Like I said, I hope they give him a look next season.

by madglove on Jul 9, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but who gave Ricky that two year contract instead of Livingston?

bad choice by Clips.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.

by tomkanti on Jul 9, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree with that...

I think we’d all love to see him come back. But if he has a good year, he’ll probably be looking for a starting role somewhere… not three years under BD.

by swamigusto on Jul 9, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't blame Shaun for that (alot of people do). It must have something to do

with the culture around here.

by eastie Rich on Jul 9, 2009 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No blaming...

just seems to happen a lot more than not. Thats all. Plus, in Shaun’s case, the Clippers did all the hard work of rehabing him, and then to see him go without seeing if he could return has to hurt a little.

Do or do not. There is no try.

by Clip Show on Jul 9, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.....all for not.

by dulciusEXasperis on Jul 9, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Heat didn't make out so well with the Liv signing

Miami got nothing for signing Liv last season, and one could make a strong argument that he was a waste of roster space for the Heat last season. I still hope Liv makes a comeback and even returns to the Clips one day, but that’s just the fan in me.

I do think the Clips made a very reasonable effort to keep Liv last year, especially in light of the fact that he couldn’t play and was useless for almost the entire season. Had he signed with the Clips, they probably would have been forced to cut him mid-season to open roster space in the midst of all the other injuries.

by ClipCat on Jul 9, 2009 1:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

to get worse

…i dont think we were scrabmbling to find worthwhile players to keep us in playoff contention last year, so having Livingston on board riding the bench would not have kept us from gettin so many (19) wins.

by Takebb909 on Jul 9, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But we did have to field a team

I recall that at one point last season, we were down to 8 players healthy enough to actually play, and we had Fred Jones and Mardy Collins playing PG and backing up Gordon. With Liv on the team, we would have had 6 or 7 players, and we likely would have dropped Liv to sign a healthy body.

by ClipCat on Jul 9, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ya, but if Liv was on the bench i nstead of Ricky Davis, there would have been no difference. At the time we were down to 8 players, Davis was on the bench, could have just as easily been Livingston. It wouldn’t have necessarily meant the Clips were down to 6 or 7 players.

by Michael White on Jul 9, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hindsight

I mean obviously we’re all talking in hindsight here. Nobody knew what the season would turn out like. Having said that, they should have tried a little harder to resign Shaun after all the years of work they put into him. It was well worth it to see if he could make a comeback (which it looks like he will).

Oh well, it’s nice to see him playing again. It’s not a huge loss or anything. It’s not like Shaun would change this franchise after that knee injury. But it would have been a feel good story to have him come back on this team. He represented the highest level of optimism the Clips have had in years. A playoff team within 1 shot of the WCF with a PG full of potential. It seemed so great at the time. Hard to believe how badly it all fell apart.

Thank God for Blake Griffin!

by madglove on Jul 9, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a bit tough.

Before the season started, I would have taken Ricky Davis over Shaun ONLY because Ricky Davis looked like he could still play. So while I was caught up with all that Ricky Davis hype, seems that having Shaun Livingston sounds awesome. Either way, sign Ricky or Shaun, they both would have probably missed equally the same amount of games and would mean virtually nothing.

Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!

by JackduhSun on Jul 9, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know...

After going through this whole thread again, and with the Clips under the cap next year… and the probability that the really big names won’t be available, and SL being a free agent, maybe it’s not too hard to believe the Clips could make a nice offer. Gordon, Baron, Shawn would look pretty nice in a rotation in the Clips backcourt.

by swamigusto on Jul 9, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no doubt about it

there is no question (and this is based on me being bias) i was and slightly so now a big Livingston fan and almost despised Ricky, he always killed us and seemed to disrespect us (like Jon Barry). So if I was givin the choice between the two; a gimpy Shaun and a possible steal of Ricky i would have taken Shaun 100 times out of 100. one we drafted him, but the most important thing… his greatest skills were available without out the aid of a knee being 100%…vision, passing… those can last a long time and could , at the very least, still have him as a very valuable back up. look how long Kidd is effective with those important skill sets, even being up there in age. Ricky was and is a dimwhitted knucklehead.

by Takebb909 on Jul 9, 2009 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs