Rasual Butler traded to Clips
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 10:23 AM PDT
104 comments
A little mid-August breaking news.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4394050
Need to study this myself, but I thought I would get it up on the board here for thoughts and comments. Not something anybody has ever mentioned, as far as I know.
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you stole it from 69Knicks lol
he posted as a fan shot just a little bit ago. I like the move it is a no risk high reward move and should give EJ some rest time off the bench.
In Gordon we trust
As I said in the other thread
I think this is a good move. Fills a need, Butler can shoot the three (39%/140 threes in 31 mpg), and he can defend the wing. The kind of thing competing teams do to fill out their roster. We took advantage of a team that needed to dump salary. Kudos to MDSr.
I approve.
He’s a one year rent a player that can play the 2 and 3 who will help space the floor with his 3pt shooting.
Nothing not to like
Clear addition of depth, which we desperately needed. Butler almost always made a positive contribution to the Hornets when he was on the floor.
He’s a good role player who can shoot from deep.
Great move.
GM MDSr. really runs circles around Coach MdSr.
I’ve continually been impressed by the moves Dunleavy is making. In my opion, he’s been good overall, but these past couple of years he’s been on point. Hopefully, he can pull a Doc Rivers this year and actually correctly run the team he has built.
by Gordon for President on Aug 12, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
Probably not
Maybe GfP is saying that GMMDSr has done a decent Danny Ainge imitation. Now the table is set for Coach MDSr to go from villain/moron to “great coach for this group of talent,” a la Rivers. Unlikely, of course.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, should’ve been more clear. I was making 2 seperate points. Dunleavy is a good GM AND I hope he can go from people calling for his head to coaching a succesful team. Rivers ran the Celts from 45 to 20-something wins in a couple seasons, then was hailed for “outcoaching” the Zen Master.
I just want Dunleavy to “get it” and become a coach on par with his work as GM.
by Gordon for President on Aug 12, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Ricky Davis?
Would rather say goodbye to Ricky Davis. Waive him, and leave a spot for Fred Jones, and another one for Novak.
Salary dump by NOH for a second round pick. Not sure how this worked exactly. NOH didn’t want to take RD’s salary.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Glue guy?
Defender? Can he legitimately play the 3?
He was a starter. Started 73 games, and played in all 82—as Clipper fans, we have to admire that kind of durability. 2614 minutes.
Not afraid to shoot the 3, and he can make them: he made 140 of them last year in 359 attempts. 360 3s is a lot, no? Shot .468 on 2s, and has a .521 aFG%.
Contract issues?
Good role player...but is that the same as "Glue Guy"?
I think Butler is a really good role player. Doesn’t hog the ball, plays within himself and the system, doesn’t do anything stupid that his teammates would be upset about. He’s the type of guy who fits right in almost anywhere and can probably help almost any team.
But is that the same as the “Glue Guy” that we’ve all been talking about lately? It isn’t to me. Personally, I think a Glue Guy is a lockerroom leader, a veteran presence, someone who actively brings the team closer together (hence the term “glue”).
Not to say he isn’t the Glue Guy, but I don’t think he’s really shown that yet. Maybe he will.
semi-glue guy
You’re into Advanced Glue Guy Theory, mg. The trick is to figure out the distinction between a role player and a glue guy. I don’t know that “leader” and veteran presence is part of the basic GG formula.
Defense is a big factor. That’s where I have the question about Butler. I hope one reason he’s a starter and solid role player is that he’s a strong defender. I don’t know him at all. Defense, and defensive IQ, very importantly, especially at the SG position, is a key factor.
On the NOH playoff team, featuring Chris Paul, David West, Tyson Chandler (now Okafor), and Peja Stojakovic… he’s the guy who guards Kobe, right? Is he a Bruce Bowen type?
Hard to figure the exact distinction between defensive specialist (Bowen) and glue guy (Battier and Prince). Ariza is a prototypical glue guy, but he’s not a lockerroom leader or veteran presence. He’s unselfish, plays crucial defense, and makes some plays. Battier, Prince, and Ariza all rebound a lot better than Butler.
Wish he was a better rebounder I guess.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
The question is
Can they still do a S&T with the Bucks and get Sessions in here or do we now not have enough cap space. And how does that trade exception figure into it?
This would have been a chunk of the TPE
They can still use the rest, but its certainly less than the MLE now.
That's what I would have guessed
Seems like a nice move with the TPE.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
So what you're saying is
that the combined TPE / MLE let is less than the full MLE. Wouldn’t it be greater if we trade Telfair or are you factoring that in.
Not sure what you're asking...
but you can’t combine the TPE and the MLE. This trade didn’t affect the MLE at all. We still have the full MLE.
This trade cut into the $7+ mil TPE we had from the Z-Bo trade. That could have also been used in a sign and trade with Milwaukee…up to about $5.6 mil (the value of the MLE, which is the most Milwaukee could have signed Sessions for in a S&T).
At this point, they can only do a sign and trade for about $3.5 mil starting, or just offer Sessions the full MLE and hope the Bucks don’t match.
See madglove
You can’t combine exemptions.
They can S&T for the rest of the TPE OR they can sign him for part or all of the MLE.
The effect of this trade is eliminating the option of a S&T that was bigger than the MLE, but that was probably overpaying for Sessions anyway, UNLESS that was some sort of key to get him to agree to a 1 year deal and you wanted to go that way.
Bigger than the MLE?
John I thought we had discussed this before and you said Milwaukee couldn’t sign and trade Sessions for greater than the MLE b/c they only have his early-Bird rights. I remember you corrected me on that and you were right.
So really it just eliminates the option of a S&T up to the full MLE.
Ya, I keep forgetting he was a second rounder
Mah bag.
So this eliminated nothing, except for the possibility of getting Sessions with the TPE and then SOMEONE ELSE with the MLE.
Things would seem to be drawing to a close, assuming no Baron/Kaman blockbuster is on the horizon.
Agreed
The team currently has 13 contracts and a QO to Novak. That leaves one roster spot. I’m guessing they continue to wait for Sessions in hopes that he falls in their lap, and if not, this is the team they go with and keep the extra roster spot for flexibility during the season if necessary.
Ok - thanks - I agree
They should offer him the full MLE. If they can actually get that done, would be amazing.
The latest on that
For what it’s worth:
@GeryWoelfel: Knicks almost had deal 4 R. Sessions a month ago. Now Clippers apparently close. Mike Dunleavy mum on topic.
We have about $3.5 mil left of the TPE I think. So either Sessions will agree to a smaller contract in a sign and trade, or they’ll just offer him a part of their MLE straight up. That’s if it’s even true they’re still going after him.
Sessions
Does anyone think we can actually sign Sessions for a 1 year deal? Do you think he’ll go for that and hope for a bigger payday next year? Seems unlikely considering he wouldn’t be a starter here? Would the Bucks match a one year deal?
If we offfer him the MLE then we can't get him on a one year deal
MLE has to be a multi year contract.
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Aug 12, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
MLE?
Are you sure MLE has to be multi-year? At any rate, Sessions has to be a multi-year, because RFA’s have to sign offer sheets for a minimum of 2 years.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 12, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Knicks offered Kidd a 1 yr deal at the MLE
So I don’t think it has to be a “multi-year”.
And that’s all a myth anyway. You can easily have a 2 yr deal with a team option on the 2nd year. Thus it’s “multi-year” but essentially just a 1 year deal.
My bad thought someone said that in regards to whether
the Knicks would offer him a mulit year deal must have misunderstood.
In Gordon we trust
by bestclipfan on Aug 12, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Knicks and Sessions
Knicks can’t offer Sessions a one year deal because he’s an RFA – not because of MLE restrictions. I’m not sure about madglove’s assertion on the team option on the second year. I’ll double check the FAQ to see if it can clear that up at all.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 12, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Madglove, your wrong
Kidd was not RFA: he was a UFA.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Details
The Clippers’s text says it’s Butler and cash for a conditional 2nd round pick in 2016.
That’s an all around good trade.
Solid Pick-up
Hopefully this leads to ending the back-up PG saga
According to clippers.com he is 6'7''
which is plenty big to play forward in a pinch. But could he start over Thornton, I have always thought that Thornton would be best served coming off the bench as a 6th man but I think it may be better to use Butler as a backup SG to give EJ a rest.
In Gordon we trust
Roster at 14 (assuming Novak resigns)
Unless there are anymore changes:
1) It looks like Mardy Collins would be our third PG after Baron and Telfair.
2) I really like that Butler is a veteran, can play both the 2 and 3 and shoot the three.
3) We have plenty of big man depth (too many?)
4) Desperation three lineup with Baron, EJ, Butler, Novak and Griffin would be fun.
5) Ricky Davis and Mark Madsen better come up with some good cheerleading from the bench ideas.
Ricky can cook
and Madsen will cheer him on
…for all we know, Madsen will teach Ricky some cheer…Ricky will mess up his knees in the process…and he’s done for another season
Starting SF: Butler or Thornton
The interesting thing about Butler is that he seems to be a much better offensive player than QRoss or Mardy Collins. He can shoot a little bit: .521 aFG%.
But he doesn’t rebound very well, and rebounding from the wings and PG is a glaring Clip weakness, although BGriffin and a healthy roster should help with the general rebounding issues.
Tough call. The starting spot is still probably Thornton’s job to lose. He just needs to play a better all around game, starting with better shot selection and moving the ball around. He might not be that guy, however. “His job to lose” means he has to show improvement and make some significant adjustments to hold onto it.
Agreed
I also think it’s Thornton’s job to lose. But I can easily see Butler starting for us the way QRoss started over Maggs. Not b/c Butler is more talented than Thornton, but because he fits the starting unit better with his 3 pt shooting.
Plus, it seems like almost everyone, from fans, to coaches to even Ralph Lawler, think Thornton would be best as a scoring punch off the bench.
Nice to have that depth.
And because
Butler is much more talented that QRoss.
QRoss starting ahead of Maggette was highly questionable and produced poor results. Not necessarily because Maggette shouldn’t have been coming off the bench, but because QRoss had some significant limitations.
Butler starting over Thornton is intriguing, in part, yes, because of his 3 pt shooting. Another contributing element is the fact that Gordon such a good defender. He’s undersized, which limits the way that he can complement a defensive specialist, but his solid defense and ability to match up in a credible way with the elite SGs helps the cause.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
"highly questionable?"
How about – “a move that cost the Clippers the playoffs and destroyed the team”
Uh...
They made the playoffs that year with Ross starting over Maggette and made it to within one game of the WCF.
And Ross didn't start over Corey, Corey was hurt for most of the year when they went to the playoffs
But...
Ross started down the stretch and in the playoffs, when Maggette was back and healthy.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 12, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
For different reasons than what happened the next year
And I’m not sure of that.
Are you saying that the team that got to within one win of the playoffs during a year filled with unnecessary tension and problems scoring wouldn’t have made the playoffs had Corey started?
No...
The point is that clearly it wasn’t “highly questionable” if it worked the year before.
And saying that starting Corey that year would have made the Clips a playoff team is completely unfounded. That team had various issues that kept them from making the playoffs. Corey complaining about not starting all year certainly didn’t help.
Actually
You said it was BEYOND highly questionable and “destroyed the team” which is patently ridiculous.
It is my sincere belief that
MDSr’s stupid coaching that year is why EB left. Yes, that turned out ok for us in terms of talent, but it was completely avoidable.
There are a number of differences.
I don’t want to get into this, other than to say that it is a ridiculous notion not to start one of the two legitimate scorers on the team, which is why they were invariably behind by 10 to 15 pts by the time Corey got into the game. That was a frustrating coaching faux-pas for the whole team. And no, Corey didn’t complain. He was very professional about it.
Get outta here, Maggette bitched his head off and continues to do so. I remember him warning Baron about Dunleavy. Starting Ross was the right move, it’s the same reason Odom was brought off the bench behind Ariza. You want a scoring punch off the bench, it’s also why Jason Terry is a Sixth Man. Corey was awful, whatever he brought on offense, he gave up twofold on defense. He’s the worst twenty point scorer I’ve ever seen. It’s no coincidence the one year we made it to the post-season was when he was out nearly the entire year.
by Gordon for President on Aug 12, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Maggette warned BD about MDSr after he left
So? Was he wrong?
Ariza/Lakers is totally different. The Lakers had Gasol and Kobe – two legit scorers – in the starting lineup. Kobe himself scores 30 ppg. Did the Clippers have anything like that? Um, no. They did, however, the year before when they made the playoffs as Cassell scored 17 ppg and EB scored 25 ppg. That didn’t happen in 06-07.
You might not like Corey, and he’s certainly got his flaws, but starting him was the only shot they had of making the playoffs. Blame MDSr the GM for not bringing in better players.
Oh, and he was back for 32 games and helped them down the stretch and in the playoffs.
Not to jump in
But comparing Qross and Ariza..?
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
i dont know… i still watch him (since i am in warriors territory) and even the warriors wont play him or start him.
I mean we are talking about a team that play sno defense. I dont really think he’d have helped us, he’s an excellent 6th man but all he does is score and look for his stats (Which is why the warrior fans basically hate him).
He’s like Al, but even worse.
The moral of the story is (for the $5M / yr coach)
Is that if you want scoring punch off the bench, you better make damn sure you have scoring punch in your starting lineup.
I went back and compared stats for the two years
Cassell had a huge 5 point scoring dropoff between the two years and played in only 58 games in 06-07. EB scored 5 points less a game. Kaman and Cat scored less. The point is that the only consistent legit scoring threats they had 06-07 were EB and Corey. They had to space the floor and get another reliable scorer in there to help the offensive flow.
It was clear early on that MDSR’s myopic focus on defense and his refusal to start Corey because of his defense was not working and he made no adjustments at all. It was obvious to many of us and clearly to the players that the team just couldn’t compete.
How does Maggette ever space the floor? He’s barely a threat from behind the arc, and he makes most of his points by bolting his head to the court, and ramming through defenders. He’s always padded his scoring stats with that, and I literally jumped for joy when MDSr. let him walk. Let him be GSW’s 50 million dollar problem.
by Gordon for President on Aug 12, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
He has an incredibly quick first step and is a pretty good shooter. He requires attention from more than just the person guarding him. Which frees up EB and other shooters and generally helps the team score more points.
I’m not going to explain the game. Just go to a basketball coaching website and check out the offensive sets that are typically used and how teams score.
You might call Corey’s offense padding stats. The problem with it is that he gets injured alot. Again, I’m not saying he’s the best player in the history of basketball. He is, however, a fairly reliable scorer and a useful asset for the team at that time.
There’s really no point in arguing about the 2006-2007 season anyway. There were a lot of reasons we missed the play-offs. Certainly not the best player in basketball, but for all of his “strengths” there’s a reason he was let go for nothing, and that the only major suitor was the same team that offered a nearly hundred million dollar deal to Elton Brand (what?) and refused to extend the heart and soul of their team (Baron). Maggette is a born loser in the league, and I had no problem with him coming off the bench.
by Gordon for President on Aug 12, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Maggettifesto Era
Ah, the good old days. Nice to see that the old passion is still there. Another tale from Clipper lore that will never be truly resolved.
Yeah, for me at least, I was trying to be kind by saying “highly questionable.”
But there are so many factors, and there’s no clear truth. We’re just going to have our opinions.
Maggs 05-06 injury put Ross in the starting lineup, and that was the first domino I guess. The success of the team made a push for the status quo, but it’s not like they won the championship or made it past Raja Bell and Phoenix to face Dallas. Some of us thought, going into the 06-07 debacle, that the way that the Clips would actually be better was because Maggs would be in the starting lineup and healthy. Only he wasn’t.
It was one thing after another: FElton’s Team USA play, the trip to Russia, Cassell’s abdominal injury, Kaman funkiness and injuries—this was still the pre-2.0 era, of course, and Kaman had just gotten the healthy extension and started shopping for yachts, RVs, guns, and trucking companies. Livingston was healthy, more or less.
Still, the team played much better when Maggs finally went into the starting lineup, and they won 40 games and almost made the playoffs. I happen to believe it’s a reasonable assumption that they would have made the playoffs and the season would have gone much better if Maggette had been the opening day starter.
But there are two sides to the argument. Maggette had some significant limitations. QRoss had even more.
I guess one way to look at it today is to say, forget QRoss, would you start Rasual Butler over Maggette going into the 06-07 season?
Have to say that I just might. While I’m at it, of course, I would take Danny Granger instead of Korolev and wouldn’t bring in Daniel Ewing to guard Raja Bell either.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry Zhiv - I just couldn't let that go by
My No. 1 beef with MDSr.
No worries
Painful era. One of many, but still painful.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
We had to sit there and watch the season
unnecessarily deteriorate game by game. Torture. Can’t imagine what the players felt about it.
Actually I can. I ran into EB once at Spectrum during the year and asked him about it and he rolled his eyes.
The voice of reason
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
How so?
And in what year? They made the playoffs largely with Maggette injured and Ross at the 3 in 2005/06. The following year we had a “Play Corey” campaign. He did play more after Livingston got hurt, and they did almost make the playoffs.
I think EB’s steep drop off and Cassell’s injuries were the reason they didn’t make it that year.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
The point is
That EB wouldn’t have had as great a dropoff if they had more scoring when he was in the game. If Cassell wasn’t hurt, and was scoring 18 ppg like he did the year before, then perhaps it could have worked. But that was not the situation.
Maggette was a key part of 05-06
Maggette wasn't a key part of 05/06 until the playoffs
And in the playoffs, he was either brilliant or awful. But they may have won more games during the season with him. I thought he should have been the starter both years. That was a lame Dunleavy decision.
BTW, I always will argue that had they landed Artest for Maggette in 05, they would have made the Finals and played the Heat. That team would have been solid.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Amazing how the Great Maggette Debate still lays so close to the surface...
For the record, I was on the other side, thought Maggette was a perfect sixth man… starter’s minutes though.
He would absolutely be a great sixth man
On a team that had other scorers. The 06-07 Clippers did not.
not too sure Butler has a lot of fight to be a starter…
i’m not saying he can’t start, cuz he very well can. but he was a starter in NOH due to injuries (Peja or Mo Pete)…so they forced him to it. with Thornton the clippers may not push him, thus he wont push Thornton
he’s really a bench player..that how he was in Miami right?
…anyways, that’s worst case scenario. AT stays in the starting lineup and we have a shooter at the wing off the bench.
Mo Pete
Was it definitely injuries to Mo Pete? I truly don’t know. Don’t know the story about Peja’s injuries either. It would be interesting to get a fuller sense of Butler’s role, his signing, etc. and performance since Chris Paul arrived and turned the team around.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
i was just about to comment on the CP3 Factor
we’ll Butler was traded to NOH the same year CP3 was drafted. so his increase in stats could be both from a new system and CP3. he got more PT and shot attempts in NOH. PT most likely because its a different team, shot attempts probably because of CP3…
so PT shouldn’t be a problem on the clippers, we just have to see if we can get him the ball as often as CP3
he has two terrible seasons in 03-04 and 07-08…injury maybe? i don’t know…
either way he’s coming of his best season, and entering a contract year.. seems to be a VERY promising asset (player AND contract wise)
So for ZBO...
we got
backup PF: Smith
backup PG: Telfair
backup G/F + three point shooter: Richardson Butler
backup bench warmer/trade asset: Madsen
cap space/$
…not bad for one guy.
Lakers
Traded Kwame Brown (and Marc Gasol) and got Pau Gasol.
Still a better deal.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Im not sure if Butler ispart of the ZBo deal…
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
indirectly
was part of the TPE used on this trade? or did the 2nd round pick cover the entire $3.9 million…i don’t think so.
….just tried it on espn trade machine, had to use the exception.
butler means 2 more wins for us
Generally speaking
This seems like a great move. GMMDSr is certainly doing stuff to try to win some games.
That being said, all of this activity does push against the “we had too much roster turnover last year, too many new guys” argument.
Let’s review: returning: BDavis, Gordon, Kaman, Camby, Thornton, DJordan, Collins, hopefully Novak, maybe Fred Jones, hopefully not Ricky Davis (good one above from banandy: “come up with some good cheerleading from the bench ideas.”)
New: Griffin, Smith, Butler, Telfair, Madsen.
Not so bad.
New thread....
Just to clarify something… I probably shouldn’t have started a new thread. The commenting is going strong here. But Zhiv’s thread wasn’t getting indexed by Google, so I decided to do a new one. I probably could have pushed this one through, but decided it was easier just to do a new one.
Although there’s some good stuff here, let’s try to move the commenting to the new thread – since that’s the one that outsiders are going to see if they get here through Google.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
A good thing
We can reserve this one for a Maggettifesto rehash.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I did not say that...
And there are lots of posts that say exactly the opposite. I always, always, always argued that Maggette should have been the starter.
BUT… I value accuracy and truth very highly, and I also realize that things are rarely black and white – usually they are very, very grey.
jax said: And Ross didn’t start over Corey, Corey was hurt for most of the year when they went to the playoffs
to which Steve replied: Ross started down the stretch and in the playoffs, when Maggette was back and healthy.
Mine is a factual statement. And I’m not sure how you can conclude from it that I believe Ross should have started. My statement literally has nothing to do with 06-07.
I always understood what MDsr was trying to do with Ross in the lineup. It was all complicated by the fact that they had ostensible success in the 06 playoffs. But it clearly wasn’t working the following season, and MDsr stubbornly clung to the idea for way too long.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 12, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he did
He even gave Corey’s minutes to Doug Christie, who was on a 10 day contract. He and Corey were at war.
But when Liv got hurt, the Clips got Jason Hart, and Corey and Cat became the facilitators. And the team started winning.
“Play Corey”
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Yeah
Clipper Steve—as he was known back in those days, you’ll all recall—definitely wanted Maggs in the starting lineup.
It’s odd, because it was an incredibly complex issue, and also really obvious at the same time.
My big thing was the slippery slope of stubborness, although that might be the wrong term. I’m a big believer in the “5 games” approach; Coach MDSr clearly is not. (I think for now I’m going to write about MDSr as if he’s two different people: GMMDSr and CoachMDSr.) Let QRoss start some preseason games, see if he’s hitting his shot, how other teams react when he’s on the floor. Okay, I don’t like it, but let him start the first five games, if it’s working and the Clips are winning and playing great, then Maggs is probably going to be coming off the bench. Ten games in? Still starting? How is the team doing? Is it working really well? Is it working at all? Fifteen games in? Not really happening yet? Well, why not try starting Maggs? Give him his five games—the Q approach is 15 games old and not working. 25 games? What seems to be wrong with this team? Why exactly is one of the two best scorers, and one of the better all-around players, still coming off the bench?
Now, CoachMDSr (moron, at this point) had more reason to be conservative, coming off a strong playoff showing, than he has in the last two dismal seasons. But his failure to experiment and innovate, just to attempt the obvious, was a killer, and it’s a big problem that didn’t get any better over the next two seasons, in much more trying circumstances.
GMMDSr has had a great summer, I would say at this point. It should be interesting to see what kind of hash Coach MDSr makes out of all of the GM’s hard work.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Clippers started 5-1 in 06/07
They lost the first one in PHX with Livinston as the starter. Coach started Cassell for Game 2. The Clippers won the next 5, including a rematch against PHX in which Maggette came off the bench and changed the game.
Then they lost the next 6 in a row. So 1 game with Livingston was enough to see it wasn’t working, but a 6 game L streak didn’t convince him on Corey.
To me, that was the worst year of all. Expectations do that. Historically, revolutions are rarely carried out by the truly downtrodden and oppressed, but rather by those whose expectations were not met. Same concept, maybe.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
We all value truth and accuracy very highly, Steve, but thanks for confirming that you do
But if all you were trying to do was just state a fact, during a hot debate about key issues, then I mistook that for an expression of your opinion on the material issues that we were discussing. My mistake.
Why not indexed by Google?
Obviously, I just asked that on the wrong thread?
There's some "promote" box
That I didn’t know about. Now I do. “Promote beyond your community.”
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously, commanding the Clipsnation ship from the bridge...
…requires a seasoned pilot. All those knobs and switches are confusing for a landlubber. With the cynosure of Blake Griffin staring down at your keyboard from his holy roost, no wonder you got flustered. There. Did I use it correctly?
Not really
But a good try. Maybe it works, but it’s a little awkward. Might be better as “with a cynosure like BG staring down…” A cynosure captures your gaze, everyone’s gaze, it’s the focus of all eyes. So you’re pretty close.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 12, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Awkward yes...
I struggle. I take pleasure in the struggle.
When I was a kid we had “baseball cards” and “holy cards”. That portrait of Blake Griffin is reminiscent of the latter not the former. I am thrilled by the trade for Rasual Butler, but I keep waiting for people to work in the WOD… and no one does. But “cynosure” kinda blows, there’s just no way to use it casually.
I only work the bottom of threads. Or… I am the thread-killer.
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