Clippers Re-Sign Brian Skinner
So that makes 14 going into the season, just as we suspected.
Hat tip to Citizen FATAL for posting this. I'm going to jump in with some thoughts here on the front page.
This is clearly in keeping with MDsr's recent history, as I mentioned in Monday's post. He likes having a veteran big on the bench, and Brian Skinner is the new Aaron Williams - so slot Skinner in as the 14th guy. Skinner's not a bad guy to have around, though one hopes that he's not getting many minutes, especially if those minutes are coming at the expense of DeAndre Jordan. Still, one suspects that CMDsr is going to prefer the security of Skinner's experience playing post defense against certain opponents - call him the 'big blanket.' It's also interesting to compare Skinner to Mark Madsen in that 14th spot - it's clear that Skinner is the better baller, and given that he appears to be a great teammate as well, this seems like an upgrade over Mad Dog.
According to Eric Pincus' post on the signing, it is a guaranteed contract, so indeed this would appear to be the roster with which the Clippers will begin the season. They could sign someone to the 15th spot, but GMMDsr has always preferred to leave it open in order to have some flexibility during the season. In other words, if you sign another point guard now, you may wish you had signed a small forward if all your small forwards get hurt at once. By leaving a spot open, they can react to injuries and other situations (like trade opportunities) more quickly during the season. By the way, Pincus points out that the Clippers saved some money, since the league picks up a portion of one year minimum deals but not for multi-year deals - fun CBA fact.
This also fits into the continuity theme we've been hearing from the Clippers. Obviously they added Griffin, the future (and arguably present) face of the franchise and the bench was bolstered with Sebastian Telfair, Craig Smith and Rasual Butler as the primary backup (or better) at four spots on the floor. So in the end, it's a pretty good mix of stability and added talent - 10 out of 14 players are returning from last season, but the four new bodies figure heavily into a nine man rotation. Steve
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Its possible but
Can’t trade him until like December.
Other teams still want Brian Skinner??
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
if Boston didn't land Rasheed, they might have looked at Skinner...
Playoffs teams in the East need to stock up on bigs to throw at Shaq and Dwight
LOL
you mean to get dunked on right? I was searching Brian Skinner dunks to see what kind of results there were and virtually all the dunks were on top of Brian Skinner.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
I suppose...
but I was meaning more of the hack-a-shaq/dwight option, in which case, Skinner is basically worth 6 fouls per playoff game.
Kaman is gone
We just added depth, so down the road we can move Kaman for an expiring. The goal all along is to stay competitive and still have cap space in 2010. Moving Kaman or Baron is the only way we can make a max offer in 2010. We hopefully already have Kaman’s replacement in Jordan so moving Kaman makes since.
So Skinner is the long term solution?
Doesn’t make sense. At the end of this season, the Clippers are in the exact same place with or without Skinner.
Kaman may or may not be traded, but this move doesn’t likely have anything to do with it.
Your response suggests to me two things:
1) you don’t believe DJ will ever pan out
2) you don’t believe Camby will be back with the Clippers after his contract expires
Btw, it’s fine to hold either or both of these positions.
My gut feeling is that Camby will be offered and will sign a contract with the Clippers if we do indeed trade away Kaman this season…this really depends on whether the Clippers post a strong showing this season.
As for DJ, I don’t know what his ceiling is…but, I’d be happy if he develops into a solid 20+ contributor along the lines of Kendrick Perkins over the next few seasons.
Good clarification
Don’t think DJ is ever going to be a 20+ scorer, and neither is Kendrick.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Same here..
I’m hoping DJ can be a 14/12 guy.
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Sep 16, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearify that..
14 points 12 rebounds…???
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
yeah, sorry
'Cause how you play, is how you'll be remembered. PLAY LOUD!
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Sep 16, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The kid is showing rapid improvement
I don’t see why he can’t be a 20-10 guy. I know this has been said before, but look at Dwight Howards repertoire. He appears to have no polished skills yet manages to get his points. DJ is definitely within that realm.
I agree,
DJ has tremendous up side and is a hard worker with a good Positive attitude. You can train,teach and coach players on fundamentals like ball handling,shooting,rebounding,ETC. but you can not teach them to be hard workers and have a good attitude, they just have that or they don’t. Look at some of the players with great potential but their bad work ethic and attitude prevented them for achieving greatness.
You can teach them shooting, rebounding, etc
but there is obviously a huge differnece between Dwight and DJ. I can see how you can say DJ remotely reminds you of Dwight, but I don’t think that you can say he reminds you as an exact or somewhat of an exact replica of Dwight. True that Dwight wasn’t exaclty well polished coming into the NBA, but a big factor was potentially because he didn’t play college ball (and was still able to land as the #1 pick.) DJ (in a way) HAD to play college ball (the other alternative is skipping overseas), and even in college his skills were extremely limited. I would love to remain optimisitic too because at one point I thought that DJ could try and become the next Dwight Howard, but the more I look at the guy, DJ has to get extremely athletic, fast, strong, determination, and good post up skills in order to come close to Dwight.
Also, (this is opinionated speaking) I don’t think Deandre would have been selected that high had it not been for his play in highschool ball. I’m not sure his rank in highschool, but it was a pretty low (top 10 probably?) recruit. When he came into Texas A&M, he didn’t really preform to how he was expected to preform. Part of it could have been because he was still getting used to college ball, but another part could also be because he wasn’t fundamentally developed. Deandre should have stayed one more year in college and see if he could have gotten selected higher in the draft.
I think that DJ can be more of a Tyson Chandler type player; but if for in any instance he becomes a Dwight Howard, I’d be a big fan.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
It's his defense...
He’s got to learn how to play sound team defense…there have been a good amount of times this past season where he just looks confused on where he should be which leads to him being out of position and picking up silly fouls.
If he can figure that out, then he’s already on track to being a better Tyson Chandler…
I can't just limit it
strictly on just defense…
And its already too hard to label him a consistent 20/10 guy…
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
Why compare?
Why is everyone so quick to compare players to other players? Maybe DJ is just DJ? Dwight did not set the league on fire his first seasons and as far as TC he has been hurt more then he plays.
DJ to me in an Prime Example of the kind of young talent a team will need to sign one of the big FA’s in 2010. A guy like LBJ or Dwade when they sign are going to Tap a team and make it so you can only afford guy like DJ that gives 100% for under a Mill. a year.
Yeah
but Dwight did set some records; especially some that are a bit harder earned then dunking the ball.
I’m not saying that Deandre is going to be a bust, too early to tell, but I’m sure even if Deandre manages to not improve much, he still might p[ossibly find himself on other teams.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
DJ and DHoward
He doesn’t have to “become” Dwight Howard (and he won’t.) He just has to get closer to being a Dwight Howard than being a random stiff.
The real question is whether he can be better and more productive and reliable, with fewer turnovers, than Kaman.
by citizen zhiv on Sep 17, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Kaman 2.0
or Kaman last year?
If DJ can do 16-12, he’d be one of the best 2nd round selection.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
Would not be suprised,
if DJ takes Kaman or MC spot this season at some point but not by injury but just sheer hard work and determination, don’t count this kid out.
Now with BG on the team and the two of them being so close and working out everyday already it has made a special bond of chemistry and confeindence for both. Add EJ to that mix and you got three super young players with tremendous positive attitudes and great chemistry for the future.
A Good Topic
Can DJ beat out Kaman this year? or What does DJ have to do to beat out Kaman this year? Deserves fuller analysis, perhaps part of a separate DJ post.
Will he have the opportunity? Will his bond with Griffin (and Gordon) make a difference? Come to think of it, it’s fun to see them together on the floor, right? How will he get minutes? How does Camby factor in? Will Griffin bond with Kaman?
by citizen zhiv on Sep 19, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
The Camby Scenario
One thing to point out about the idea of trading Kaman, signing LeBron, and then re-signing Camby. I haven’t done the math, but to sign LeBron, we know they need more cap space than they currently have (barring a surprising development in the salary cap calculation next year). So, even assuming you’re getting rid of all of Kaman’s $11.3M for expiring deals, some of that money is going to LBJ to get him here. Whatever is left is what you have to round out the roster – that and minimum deals, since the MLE and other exceptions only apply to teams over the cap. My question – is Camby one of the players you want to spend your very finite money on? Might there be another, younger player, interested in joining LBJ, Blake Superior, BD and EJ in Sunny LA?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Chris Bosh..
But Bosh would probably want more than 8 Mils?
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
If it meant LBJ, of course not...
IF (big, big if), we amazingly get LBJ to come over, then we should go after Shaq as well for the vet min..the Staples Center war against Kobe and the Lakers would be off the charts!
Regardless, how many centers are out there (and available in 2010) that will offer more on the court than the ‘aging’ Marcus Camby? Btw, I believe he’ll be turning 36 next year…aren’t there some CBA rule for signing vets older than 36? Can’t recall…
Over 36 Rule
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Blake Superior.
You continue to impress, Steve. With BD, EJ, BG, and LeBron, we could basically plug in anyone with a pulse at the 5 and still be pretty sweet. Camby is a veteran, a good mentor, and still very capable. I can see bringing him back at the veteran’s minimum for one or even two years as a very likeable move.
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I love him at the minimum
Would he sign for the minimum? He’s worth much more to someone if he puts up numbers even remotely similar to last season.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
He very well could sign if
LBJ comes.
Why am I even entertaining that thought.
I guess that is all under the surface
But the bigger picture would be: why do you need Skinner to execute that or any other scenario?
Even if Camby comes back, he will be 36. Centers don’t trail off like PG’s do. They hit a wall.
If the perfect deal came along and they traded Kaman, why not just sign a scrub big for the rest of the season at that point?
Skinner changes nothing. My main point was don’t read into this. They only picked up the expected seventh or whatever big.
It's just an insurance policy on Camby/Kaman's health
The policy becomes more valuable if Kaman is indeed traded away without a center coming back…agree?
Sure, this may be all for nothing, but it does make the option of trading Kaman this season a little more doable…
I don't disagree
But if I were to put a percentage on insurance against injury versus trade ploy, I’d make it something like 99%/1%.
The comment I was responding to was titled, “Kaman is gone.”
He may or may not be gone, but this signing likely has little to do with it. This signing or another one just like it was going to happen either way, almost completely as normal depth. Injury insurance if you want to give a name to depth.
Trading Kaman
The way it fits, it seems to me, is that it gives the Clips the ability to dump Kaman (and his salary) and not need to get a big back in return, or add one after the fact. That might add a little flexibility in dealmaking, and give the Clips some credibility and continuity going ahead with the season as well.
Say that Kaman is traded/dumped before the deadline. Prior to signing Skin, the Clips would have had Camby and DJ at center, Griffin and Smith at PF, along with Novak (sort of), or Thornton in a pinch. Four guys is hardly enough to get through a game, let alone half a season.
It’s important to remember that Kaman might be traded because he’s playing well, rather than because he’s lousy. (Or he might be traded if he’s lousy, too.) But without an extra/6th big man on the roster, who is capable of being third string at both positions, you might hesitate—especially if the team is in good position and Kaman is playing well.
Hard to tell. Best case still seems to be that the team gels and wins games. I certainly wouldn’t say that “Kaman is gone” because they signed Skinner. But signing Skinner might give the Clips a tiny bit of confidence in shopping Kaman. The trickle down effect on the court would be that DJordan might get extra minutes, earlier. But that could happen for all sorts of reasons.
by citizen zhiv on Sep 16, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed - good post
Last year they were really interested in trading Kaman. Getting Griffin and his expected ppg does nothing to change that notion in my mind.
True...
but I don’t want to see him miss another wide open dunk this year…
I knew I wasn't the only one thinking that!
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
If Kaman 2.0 returns, I say keep 'im
There’s no guarantee that LeBron or Joe Johnson or any free agent will sign with the Clips. Teams have gone the route before of clearing cap space to get big free agents and been left high and dry (see Chicago at the beginning of the century & how they had to resort to their big signing being Ron Mercer). If the Clips play great, then players will more likely wanna join, but otherwise, it could be a dangerous play. ‘Cuz also if the Clips don’t play great this season, it’s fairly likely that Camby will wanna go elsewhere. That means we’d loose both centers and still be somewhat weak at SF (not to mention an injury-prone PG). It’s much harder to find a decent center than it is to find a decent swingman. I mean if Kaman returns to form (granted that’s a big ol’ “if”), we’d still have what, $10 million, to try’n get an upgrade at SF (letting Thornton come off the bench as a 21st century Microwave), which’d give us a crazy good starting 5 plus two great backups in Al and DJ.
I say the only way we should even consider trading Kaman is these three possibilities:
1.We get back a good player like Gerald Wallace.
2.The team is a’rockin’ so hard that clearly free agents will put us on the top of their list.
or
3.Kaman sucks/is injured again, which’d leave us with no definitive proof he’ll ever return to form & thus it’s better to get his big contract off the books even if we can’t sign a free agent.
by FullyClips.com on Sep 17, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
If Kaman sucks one more year
is Gerald Wallace still going to be out on the market?
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
Was he ever?
There is virtually no possibility of that trade happening. Wallace is the best scorer/player on a team with no stars. The Bobcats already have three centers, and they are thin at most every other position. The only way Wallace is traded is if the Bobcats hold a fire sale, and then they are looking for expiring contracts themselves.
I knew this was happening after Steve’s post about the 13th or 14th man. Honestly, as your fifth big you could do a lot worse than Skinner. Solid (re)pick up. Not much expected from him, but nice to have a veteran big on the end of the bench. I’d rather have him than DJ Mbenga, that’s for damn sure.
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions
Ericka.
On a second thought, doesn’t Erick Dampier’s contract expire after this season? Dump K-Pax to DAL? They make about the same, Dirk knows Kaman, and Cuban wants a better 5. I could see this happening, plus not much of a drop off during this season.
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
If we’re look good this season, the only thing we want is cap space to sign LBJ, or failing that, Joe Johnson.
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
im down with joseph johnson is he can run the 3. cuz we all know EGthizz is a future all-star, boy needs his minutos.
by althornton4president on Sep 16, 2009 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Damp's contract...
Runs through 2011, so he’s no help in chasing LeBron.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure there’s a clause in his contract that makes him one of those virtual expiring deals as the season moves on. It’s also incentive laden to the point he’ll never make them, like averaging over 25 minutes a game or something. There’s been rumors of him for Michael Redd for sometime now.
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Clarify Dampiers contract
all $13 Million are unguarenteed if he doesn’t play 2,500 Minites for the first 70 games. With Camby her Dampier can play 20 Min a night for the 70 games, thus becoming the Expiring contract of 2010.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
I think we should seriously look into this. Might be a real coup. But with our injury history, Damp could end up becoming the de-facto starter. How about that for the Clipper Curse?
by Gordon for President on Sep 16, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
If we’re watching Kaman 2.0 this season i think it would be dumb to trade him for an exp. contract to get a SHOT at LeBron. Our “fallback option” is supposed to be JJ and we can already make him a realistic offer. However, if it’s obvious that there isn’t a big drop off from Kaman to DJ , i say go right ahead with it. BTW after LeBron, i think the 2011 free agency class has more players better suited to our needs.. About a month ago i made a list of what i think are the best 2011 free agents. If i get enough time i’ll try to write a fanpost on the subject.
Citizen KamanHomie must be the happiest guy on this board upon hearing the news
One more year of BSkinnz jokes.
SKINNER IS THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA
quite possibly MDsr’s biggest and brightest move during his questionable tenure with the clippers. BSkinnz will eat this blog post, haters rest assured, your time is up like Skinner and a pick-up truck. (which he also eats).
PS this is not Citizen KamanHomie (but i do know that dude, half jamaican half israeli, 100% correct in his analysis at all times. Kid tested, Skinner approved.)
by althornton4president on Sep 16, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is what I mean
The thought of another year of BSkinnz blog posts makes me giddy.
by Michael White on Sep 16, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Mr. White is the illest
BSkinnz is going to look sexy sitting right behind the bench, G’d up from the chin down, dipping his beard in the nearest bleaching agent. I always thought that BSkinnZ should come to games dressed in ancient Egyptian garb so he could complete the King Tut look he rocks so right—I wonder if that would be kosher under the dress code.
In the beginning, God created light, darkness, and BSkinnz. BSkinnz ate God, the tree of knowledge, and a small bowl of fruit with some granola sprinkled on top. Skinner made passionate love to everything in sight, had some kids, the kids became humanity, yadda yadda yadda, the Clippers won the championship and BSkinnz ate the parade. It tided him over until dinner time.
Yay yay.
by KamanHomie on Sep 17, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Another point--and the death of the dream
Signing Skinner isn’t just the extra body on the roster during the season, for whatever purpose. The value here may be about training camp and Blake Griffin.
Having the 6th big man signed and on the roster, a credible NBA player who also adds some continuity (as SP noted), is a boost for training camp and the preseason. It might help rather fragile guys like Kaman and Camby avoid early injuries, allowing the team to work and letting them pick their spots. But rather than having a nameless scrub brought to camp, the team will be working with a legit pro with a solid work ethic who knows the system and the league.
On top of that, Skinner is the only straight up, rebounding/defending PF on the roster other than Blake Griffin. He probably has some things to offer to Griffin in terms of experience, and should be a good practice/training camp matchup for him. Craig Smith is a PF, but he’s undersized and not a rebounder/defender. Mark Madsen may have been a seemingly good locker room/practice guy, but he can’t really play basketball at the NBA level; Skinner can.
The DJordan/BSkinner 3rd string line up is actually very solid.
Another thing that this does is that it seems to point to the idea that Novak would probably get his minutes at the 3 rather than the 4, although I don’t see any actual connection between that idea and Skinner’s signing. Pincus mentions that—and it’s funny to see how he goes out of his way to talk much more specifically about everybody’s role in his article, especially mentioning RButler and RDavis, after he used shorthand in his brief preview the other day.
On the downside, the idea that Sofo might get a contract and come over in the next couple of weeks is officially dead. It always made more sense for him to play out his contract in Greece, and we’ll have to keep tabs on him from afar. And Nick Caner-Medley’s dream died today too. Maybe that’s the Novak connection, that he might have been more of a 4-3 and Caner-Medley could have come to camp with a shot at being a backup 3. But no more.
Novak's minutes
As I’ve said before, Novak’s position is almost irrelevant. He plays ‘shooter’ on offense and ‘liability’ on defense. For him to get extended minutes, he really needs to be opposite a very limited offensive player. That very limited player could be anyone, and almost any position other than the point – a 5 (Joel Przbilla or Ben Wallace), a 4 (Anderson Varejao), a wing (Quinton Ross). Last season, his minutes mostly came from 4 and 5, because that’s who he was defending.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 16, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Dang, Novak shoulda signed with the Nuggets
Nuggets don’t mind if he’s a liability on defense (we did have Linas Kleiza for 4 seasons!. and he is a good outside shooter. Anderson Varejao is really an average defender who flops too much
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
Anyone know what happened to Taylor?
Is he getting invites to preseason, going overseas, going back to the NBADL?
FA in 2010.
he signed with the grizzlies...
making them the second sickest team in the league. A distant second, but still…
taylor, Zbo, Rudolf, OJ, Thabeetles. Multiple homies.
Yay yay.
I actually don't think an offer
was even made to Mike Taylor. They “tried out” Taylor but I would assume that it wasn’t to their likings. There were talks from “REALGM” that Mike Taylor had signed with Grizzs (and that was the only site that I saw that the Grizz’s offered Taylor a contract), but that was the same site that said that the Clippers signed Carlos Arroyo. Both allegations are proved to be false and nobody should believe realgm ever again.
Mike Smith on Eric Gordon: "The Clippers may have found their go to scorer."
On a second note, I want Novak back!
Brian Skinner = fat guy on the end of the bench
He’ll contribute to the locker-room atmosphere too. I’d be surprised if he’s anything more than an injury replacenemt
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
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