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A Quick Clarification on Kaman

Will there be controversy if Kaman comes off the bench?  Probably not.

More photos » Gus Ruelas - AP

Will there be controversy if Kaman comes off the bench? Probably not.

When I read some of the comments from my last post, I realized that I mistakenly implied that I believed there would be difficulties in camp over who the starting center would be.  I closed the post stating "So if you're looking for a controversy for the start of camp, that's probably the one," so yeah, I guess no one could be blamed for thinking this would be controversial, since, um, that's what I said.

So I'm going to backtrack a little here.  The simple fact is, sometimes it's tricky finding an ending to a post.  Especially one of these, "How I spent my summer vacation" posts.  You list a bunch of stuff, and then you are done listing things, but I'm a bit too much of a perfectionist to just stop writing.  So I want to have some sort of kicker at the end, give everyone something to think about.  My intent with this line, honestly, was something along the lines of "The Clippers appear to be so harmonious right now that bloggers like me are going to have to create controversies out of thin air."  The line didn't work.  That's my bad.

Here's a more complete picture of the situation from what I saw and heard yesterday, and you can use your own imaginations from there.

  • Coach said that Camby and Kaman were their starting bigs heading into camp. 
  • No one said that a starting job was waiting for Blake Griffin, but no one has to say that.  We know it's going to happen, and hopefully sooner rather than later.
  • Kaman is not stupid, and as I mentioned tends to be more honest with his comments than most professional athletes.  He said what I'm sure others are thinking - that he doesn't consider himself a bench player, and that he'd prefer to start.
  • KAMAN WENT ON TO SAY that if coach asked him to come off the bench he would do it.  So in fact, first he said what he really thought, and then he went on to say the 'right' thing from the team perspective. 

Star-divide

Back to CMDsr for a moment: when he was talking about the competition for starting positions in camp, he went out of his way to point out that players that come off the bench aren't necessarily 'worse' than the players that start.  He referenced the patron saint of non-starters, Manu Ginobili, and said that sometimes you bring a guy off the bench because you believe he can have the greatest impact in that role.

This has been my position on Al Thornton for a while now.  The more I think about it, the more I think that he could be an ideal sixth man, and that Rasual Butler is likely a better fit with the first unit on this team.  Butler can spread the floor for Kaman and Griffin, he can drill the corner three if the defense doubles the post, and he's a better on ball defender than Thornton.  Thornton on the other hand would have more opportunities to take the ball and get his own shot playing with the second unit, which is, let's face it, something he does very well.

In the end, I believe those seven players (Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, Al Thornton, Rasual Butler, Blake Griffin, Chris Kaman and Marcus Camby) will all get 'starter' minutes when healthy.  I would expect Thornton and Butler to play similar minutes to one another (with Al hopefully being significantly below his average of 37.4 last season which was too high by necessity).  I believe Kaman and Camby will play something similar to their career minutes per game averages (29 and 31 respectively).  Let's face it - two seasons ago when Kaman played 37 minutes per game, it was way too much, and it took a toll.  Realistically, if LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki played 37.7 minutes per game last season, neither Al Thornton nor Chris Kaman has any business in the 37 range.

Will everyone be happy if they're getting the minutes?  Not necessarily, but we'll have to wait and see.  I don't think you can completely dismiss the players' psyches in these decisions.  That's certainly one nuance of the previous Ross-Maggette situation that MDsr seemed to miss.  The coach wants to make the basketball decision that he feels is right for the team, but he can't do it in a vacuum - there are egos involved here and it's pretty clear at this point that in solving one problem in 2006 (the problem of which five players should start to give my team the best chance to win), MDsr created a different problem (the problem of my best per minute scorer is sulky and unhappy). 

For what it's worth, on the Camby-Kaman question, I think it's an easier 'sell' to bring Camby off the bench.  He's 35 years old, entering his 14th season in the league, with an infamous legacy of injury.  It seems pretty straightforward to sit him down and say, "Hey Marcus, I want to save you for the right situations, hopefully in the process save you for the playoffs; you'll get significant minutes, but I want you coming off the bench so we can more easily pick our spots."  That's a plan I can sell to Marcus Camby.  Kaman would be a tougher sell.  Should that matter?  I suppose it's a matter of opinion as to whether it should matter, but I believe it does matter.

So getting back to my original point, I didn't sense at Media Day yesterday that there was any more controversy here than we already knew.  The team has the high class problem of having seven guys who were full time NBA starters last season (full time when they weren't hurt, that is) plus the first overall pick in the draft.  So if everyone is healthy, they can't all start.  The potential is there for someone to be coming off the bench and not be totally OK with that, a situation about which Chris Kaman was honest with reporters.  That's OK. 

In the end, what matters is how players react when it happens.  You can say the right things, but do the wrong things and vice versa.  We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

1 recs  |  Comment 19 comments |

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1st bullet

there = their

by moKi on Sep 29, 2009 9:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree, agree

Before Butler I was even willing to go Mardy to bring Al off the bench. Rasual is a definite upgrade. Also like your save Camby for the playoffs ploy. At this point why not think positive and shoot for the playoffs? Either way, I have a feeling Kaman and Camby will miss games with bumps and bruises so it may just be whichever one will be healthy. Deandre better stay ready!

by moKi on Sep 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL

imagine if we still had Randolph, we’d have one hella stacked downlow presense with Blake, Camby, Kaman, and Randolph..

wow, 1st and 2nd unit will be Dunleavy’s dream!

by JackduhSun on Sep 30, 2009 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's stacked better

with randolph in memphis. it’s a more pleasing pyramid.

twitter.com/aighttho

by stingy d on Oct 4, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I were an NBA player...

I’d much rather be on the unit that closes out games than the one that starts games.

Manu may not be a starter, but he’s definitely a closer!

Case in point: I heard Phil Jackson on local sports radio the other day saying that he already knows what the closing unit will be (i presume Fish, Kobe, Artest, Odom, Gasol). But I bet that they’re going to have Bynum start over Odom again like last year…

by banandy on Sep 29, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It sucks cause

all the people that can win 6th doesn’t deserve to be on the bench and be the 6th guy. Manu, Jason Terry, Corey Maggette (while with the Clippers that is), and JR Smith are all very good players and could/ should start.

Oh, and Odom probably belongs on that list..

by JackduhSun on Sep 30, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of controversial...sucks to be part of the GSW organization right now!

Recent comments by Stephen Jackson and now Monta Ellis are definite buzz killers.

by banandy on Sep 29, 2009 10:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yet the GSW

are still ranked higher in a lot of polls.
How does hollinger have the Warriors higher than the clippers?
I just don’t understand.

by Qlippers on Sep 29, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't understand?

The Warriors won 10 more games than us last season and were missing Monta for half of that. That team has a ton of talent.

Plus, you can’t underestimate Don Nelson’s ability to make a bad team play respectably. His run and gun system doesn’t win in the playoffs, but he wins regularly during the season.

I think it’s going to be real close between GSW and LAC.

by madglove on Sep 29, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don Nelson?

I bet a pretty good argument could be made that he actively hurts his teams with his system.

In fact…

by John R on Sep 29, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course

Good arguments could be made about
a certain coach with sub .400 winning percentage too. Sort of cancels out that argument, no?

by Jax on Sep 29, 2009 12:45 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt if it will matter for very long

injuries will surely rear their ugly head before long considering the history of Kaman and Camby. Even Griffin couldn’t get through summer league without an injury.

by meercatjohn on Sep 29, 2009 11:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good to have activity

Getting underway, having some stuff to talk about. And the starting lineup is a good issue.

Not sure it’s the best thing to delay the inevitable and pretend that Blake Griffin isn’t going to be the starting PF.

Looking at it carefully, the Kaman/Camby and Butler/Thornton situations seem to be closely interrelated, and it’s hard to tell which should come first. Maybe it should be based on which player seems the most keyed up and fine tuned in training camp and the preseason.

The one choice that seems a bit thin is Camby-Butler. It’s okay, I suppose, if Griffin is solid enough in the post, and Baron and Gordon are killing it.

Kaman-Butler would be my own first choice, if Kaman is in sharp form. That seems to be where SP is leaning, based on the above remarks. Kaman presents a great option in the low post (Camby does not), which would give Griffin other options. Plus, we have enough experience with Kaman to know that you can usually tell pretty quickly if he’s going to be effective. Either he’s active and making plays and shots are going in, or he’s 0-6 or 1-5 and headed south. It’s interesting that he made comments about getting badly out of shape when he was injured, not doing the right things and not being professional, and he didn’t like the way he played when he came back. That was all very good to hear. Butler is a good complement to Kaman and the low post game, he can hit the 3 and plays defense.

Having Thornton in the starting lineup isn’t a bad option, and it depends how he’s playing. Camby/Thornton or Kaman/Thornton are fairly interchangeable based on if Kaman is playing at a high level, or the chemistry, flow, defense and tempo are better with Camby as a starter. Both are possible.

Kaman and Thornton both have their work cut out for them, a little more so than the rest. Baron obviously has a load too—everybody has a lot to do. And it will evolve over the course of the season. Good to see things getting started.

And Kaman is hilarious, the way he thinks and talks and says stuff that isn’t necessarily safe. Griffin seems like he can be witty as well, and he and DJordan seem to have a real partnership thing going on. Seems like a great, fun, talented group. Very exciting.

by citizen zhiv on Sep 29, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Does the starting lineup matter at all? didn’t CMDsr have the largest number of different starting line ups last year? I know that is due to injury, but even then, he has been known to change the lineup to match-up against the opposing team(pretty dumb if you ask me)…Would he start Kaman or Camby vs. Shaq? What about vs GSW’s small line up? I certainly hope he changes his stripes this season and barring any injury, have a set lineup regardless of who they’ll be playing…

Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"

by Lawler's Law on Sep 29, 2009 11:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Does it matter?

Did it matter for Maggette? I think it matters, at least some.

Having said that, sure, I think he’ll play the ‘matchup game’ some nights. But the question is, who is the starter when everyone is healthy?

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it matters

There is a basic philosophy – you play your game and make others match up to you.

Re Maggette – that mattered because bringing him off the bench was nonsensical. Everyone knew it but we all had to watch the season slip away.

by Jax on Sep 29, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that Camby is old and injury prone would suggest that he start

Essentially, get him going while he’s still warm. Bringing in someone cold off the bench is the best way to hurt him.

by d2s4ui1 on Sep 29, 2009 7:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've heard that logic

But it doesn’t really make sense, does it? He’s still going to come out of the game for a rest at some point. Can you now not put him back in, because he’s gotten cold? Limiting minutes makes sense for an older player – when those minutes occur is irrelevant, it seems to me.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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