Is Baron Davis really having a better season than last?
by NBAFAN8 on Jan 28, 2010 9:36 PM PST
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I have heard many members say that Baron is playing better than he played last year, but is he really? I am going to take a look at Baron through 45 games this season, and then take a look at him through 45 games last season. Please take into account that Baron missed time last year. He missed time from Dec 31-Jan 26th. With that said, he has not missed a game this year.
Baron Davis 2009-10 Stats: 45 G 15.8 ppg, 8.0 apg, 3.4 rpg, 1.8 spg, 2.7 topg, 39.6 fg%, 26.8 3p%, 83.9 ft%.
2008-09 Stats: 45 G 15.2 ppg, 7.8 apg, 3.5 rpg, 1.7 spg, 2.6 topg, 38.1 fg%, 29.3 3p%, 77.3 ft%.
So as you can see, the stats are almost the same. The only major difference through 45 games is free thow shooting. 09-10 84%, 08-09 77% through 45 games.
Now let's take a look at season highs and lows during those first 45 games in the 08-09 season, and through this season thus far.
Season highs:
Points: 08-09 (30 points), 09-10 (27 points)
Assists: 08-09 (20 assists), 09-10 (14 assists)
Rebounds: 08-09 (9 rebounds), 09-10 (12 rebounds)
Steals: 08-09 (5 steals), 09-10 (5 steals)
Season lows:
Points: 08-09 (3 points), 09-10 (2 points 2 times)
Assists: 08-09 (1 assists), 09-10 (2 assists)
Rebounds: 08-09 (0 rebounds 1 time), 09-10 (0 rebounds 2 times)
Steals: 08-09 (0 steals 9 times), 09-10 (0 steals 6 times)
This is the number of games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and failed to shoot 30% or better.
08-09: 11 times thru 45 games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and falied to shoot 30% or better.
09-10: 10 times thru 45 games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and failed to shoot 30% or better.
This is the number of games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and shot 50% or better.
08-09: 6 times thru 45 games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and shot 50% or better.
09-10: 8 times thru 45 games Baron shot atleast 10 shots and shot 50% or better.
08-09 Single digit games: 6, 08-09 20+ point games: 11.
09-10 Single digit games: 8, 09-10 20+ point games: 15.
Please take some time and look at these numbers. I am not going to say anything, as I feel the numbers tell the story.
In 2008-09 the Clippers were 15-30 through Baron's first 45 games. The 2009-10 Clippers team record through 45 games is 20-25.
Please leave any comments that you feel pertain to these numbers.
Thanks
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its kinda like arguing politics
no matter how good or bad your arguments are,,,,,, you arent going to convince me to hate Baron.
He's right
It’s starting to look obsessive…
Oh, and its also pathetic.. its either you like him or you don’t, does this post really change people’s minds?
kinda interesting
as i would have thought more assists this year…I think this is a great fan post…you guys can say he’s being negative and bashing…but that’s kinda fun and the best part of sports i say…you can really let someone you hate KNOW it….
but i look at this as a bit of an eye opener, as I’ve been wanting to love Baron whole heartedly, yet I have seen him at least a dozen times, with 10 seconds on the clock at the end of a quarter, or even end of a game..well, he just chucks up the 3 ball..it’s almost always defended well because it is SO obvious, and i can only remember it going in once (granted it was a game winner against Boston at staples)..
So i love Baron that plays to his game and drives and posts and dishes and spins and no look passes and all that stuff. I HATE the Baron that walks the ball; down the court when we are down by 8 and there is 3 minutes on the clock..TEMPO mother F$#$#ER! When you are down, and the clock is ticking, you run the ball, you look for aggressive quick shots, and you really put the onus on the defense to STOP you. But Sometimes BARON just nonchalantly walks up the court, and before you know it..we have 9 seconds on the friggin shot clock. Good Luck Kaman! Hope there isn’t a quick double-team!
Then suddenly BARON “gets mad” or “decides” to take matters into his own hands and he starts going back to his aggressive play. But its always TOO late at this point. So throw that part of his game out the door please. I want to FEAR the BEARD!! But he should stay mad the whole game, not just when the ref doesn’t give him the call… Can someone look at the number of closeout shots Baron has made at the end of quarters? I bet its a ton of nonchalant, half-assed, predictable shots that are half-heartedly thrown at the rim, maybe trying to get a foul out of it, but NEVER going in..
SO GOD i love Baron that is smart and drives the lane. but DAMN do I hate me some dumb Baron that thinks he can make that outside shot at the end of quarters instead of going with the pick and roll that has kept them close all game…We always seem to need those 2 points at the end of those games too..coincidence?
But that’s the clips..Always a Love/Hate relationship..
probably in the minority
but i agree with nbafan8. Not as big a fan of Kaman as others here, and I definitely do not like Baron Davis. There were just moments during the Nets game that he would take these difficult jumpers early in the clock, and I’m just watching and thinking….why?? It is definitely frustrating as a fan to see our priciest player play like shit way too often for my taste.
Im not his greatest supporter
but I do feel thet the 2 most acclaimed starters we have are our 2 least effective.
BG, EJ, BD LETS GO CLIPPERS!!!
If you watch the games and see how many more wins we have this year, it's pretty obvious Baron has improved...
He is slightly better statistically throughout the board, and those slight improvements add up. He is also taking less shots this year (less 3’s and 2’s and shooting more free-throws that he is making at a very high clip). He is taking over games (not every game, but quite a few) in a way he didn’t last year. His defense has been good, his leadership has been good, and more often than not I am convinced that he is playing his butt off. He is the heart and soul of this team. Camby does all the dirty work, but make no mistake Baron is undoubtedly the guy that everybody feeds off of. More often than not, when the Clippers need somebody to make a play, Baron is the guy who makes it. Obviously Kaman basically didn’t play last year and this year he is wonderful, but the other huge reason the Clippers have more wins than they had all of last year is because of Baron’s improved play. Accept it, we have Baron and he is a good player. The games are much more fun to watch when you are able to realize all the good Baron is doing out there, and not simply focus on his weaknesses.
Yay yay.
by KamanHomie on Jan 29, 2010 1:39 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
also...
I hate to use John Hollinger’s stats, because I think John Hollinger is a D-Bag, but you can just look at Baron’s PER to see the difference statistically.
Yay yay.
Absolutely right
You only have to watch the games to see how he has performed better this season that last. I was bashing Baron last year for his play nearly every game but this season, you can see his attitude is totally different. No sulking on the court, developing chemistry with team mates (especially Kaman).
His D has been a lot better both on the ball and in him actually accepting his responsibilites on the defensive end, something that I dont’ think he did last year.
And look at the most important stat, he’s leading us to more victories this year. If he was to blame for a lot of our losses last year, you can’t then not credit him when he’s leading us to more victories. Remember 19 wins??
Yep, his shooting % isn’t as high but at least he’s cut down on the horrible 3pt shots early in the shot clock that drove everyone insane last year.
There is no doubt that he is playing better. Put whatever stats you want up, it doesn’t matter.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Interesting post
I think overall he’s playing better basketball, if compared to LAST season. Or comparing him to previous point guards we had (where´s Jason Hart anyway?). In any case, the bar is not highly set, that´s for sure.
If you don’t like Baron, you sure have the stats to backup your point. I’m not a stats-first guy, as they don’t explain anything per se. I like to watch the game, and use a stat sheet as a complement. And I have to say that this year, more often than not, he’s passing my eyes test. In my mind, he´s been the best player on the court, numerous times.
On the other hand, is this supposed improvement enough to make us relevant? Here expectations take place. What do we expect of Baron Davis? Playoffs? OK. what seed? 8th? and why not 6th? It´s frustating, but the blame does not has to fall just on his shoulders.
oh my gosh
this is getting ridiculous…
go crawl back up ej’s butt
by baron davis' beard on Jan 29, 2010 7:15 AM PST reply actions
True Shooting Percentage
TS% 2008-09 .504
TS% 2009-10 .460
I know people don’t love Hollinger, but as he says, the ability to get to the free throw line and make them is really important. Field goal attempts are down, three point attempts are down, free throw attempts are up and FT% is up. His offensive game is much better than last year, even with this slump he’s been on shooting the ball in January.
TS% is the biggest reason his PER improved from 14.5 to 18.4.
Whoops. I just realized that I swapped the TS% numbers for last year and this year. Baron’s TS% is higher in 2009-10 than it was in 2008-2009.
by Michael White on Jan 29, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
yes absolutely
i really dont care what the stats are he is playing much better than he was. He may not be shooting well but he has NEVER shot well in his career so don’t act like its a new thing. He’s only shot over 40% from the field like 3 times in his career.
Your Baron Davis hate has reached new levels of absurdity.
For a guy who claims to watch “every single game, every single night”, you sure miss a lot.
NBAFAN8 is a broken record...
He’s gunking up the site with his ceaseless ranting about only one thing. He reminds me of the FireDunleavy guy. I have to teach myself to skip anything he writes.
We KNOW Baron Davis has issues… but it’s undeniable he’s played better this year than last. We need a poll for that?
Right - if you're gonna focus on one issue it has to be MDSr ;-)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
BD is far better then last season, maybe this Post should be Is EJ as Good as last season?
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
If it were not for Baron and Kaman this year, we would be where NJN are now!
The problem is EJ and Thornton have not stepped up this season; if they did, we would be where Memphis is right now!
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
EJ I agree but AT no so much,
It’s hard for a player like AT to perform with the limited minutes and plays ran for him. For some reason CMDsr. is shutting out AT in favor of Sool and Sool just is not cutting it.
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
I hope everyone can see that the numbers say that Baron is the same player.
As far as EJ being the problem this year. If that is your opinion, or that is what you see when you watch the games, then that is all you. I will say that EJ being injured has hurt the team, but like most people say, I would rather have him rest, than the injury get worse by him playing. Many of you that say EJ is the problem are only trying to get under my skin, lol. EJ is 21 years old, he is in his second season, and his first season as a full-time starter. Most shooting guards don’t score in double figures or get almost 35 minutes a night in their second year. EJ is a very special talent, and sadly, the Clipper franchise might just run him out of town. I have never seen EJ act the way he does when he interacts with baron on the court. I can see it in his eyes that he does not like how Baron is running this team. There has always been this tension between the two. Hopefully, for the teams sake, Baron, Kaman, EJ, Butler, Camby, Brown, Smith, and AT can start playing the basketball they are capable of. Otherwise, this season could get very ugly, very quickly.
"Basketball is life"
I can see it in his eyes that he does not like how Baron is running this team
Of course you can.
by Michael White on Jan 29, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
What do you want me too say?
I see it in his body language? I can see it in his game? I can see it in his facial expressions?
I have been following EJ since he was a sophmore in high school. I can read these types of things.
"Basketball is life"
well madglove
I think he has trouble grammatically.
The words “Is Baron Davis better this year” prove that.
BG, EJ, BD LETS GO CLIPPERS!!!
I agree in part
I agree in that I don’t see good rapport between those two either. Yeah, that may be holding the team back, but they are BOTH professionals, not only Baron. To Baron’s credit, he has gotten along fine with other players everywhere he’s been. So maybe in this case, Eric is the one who will have to adjust his personality in favor of the team. Just saying.
by edu_argentina on Jan 29, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
We shall see
It reminds me of Baron and Ellis’s relationship. And now that Monte is w/o Baron we see that Ellis is a baller.
"Basketball is life"
You're totally clueless
Monta was super efficient while playing next to Baron. He had a PER of 19 in Baron’s last year with GSW and 17.2 two years before that. That’s what earned him that fat contract.
Without Baron he’s been shaky to say the least and the advanced stats show that his team actually outscores their opponents WITHOUT him.
What’s funny to me is that you, who CLAIMS to watch every game every night, says that “NOW” we see that Monta is a baller? Guess what genius, everyone who knows basketball knew he was a baller before.
Now go cuddle in bed with EJ’s boxers.
I never said that....
I asked you if a pair of game-worn shorts would work. All my memorabilia, shoes, jerseys, signed photos, basketball, and cards I have are insured and locked in a gun safe.
"Basketball is life"
Bottom line is BD is a True NBA Face person and a seasoned Vet. whether you like it or not and EJ is a Soph so EJ will have to Deal or be Delt.
Why don’t you post a Comparison of EJ’s Number from last season to this season? Don’t get me wrong I am not jumping ship on EJ but you bashing BD is uncalled for and incorrect (See above Poll)
Everything starts out New, Gets Old and Dies or is Destroyed.
EJ is having a Sophmore slump
I am sure many of us thought he would be at 18+ ppg this season, but injuries have hampered his season so far.
"Basketball is life"
I really appreciate that comment
I am a huge fan of the Clippers. I have been since the days of D-Miles and Q-Rich, " the head bangging brothers", but I just can’t stand Baron. I have never liked BD. I am sure many of us have that one player that we can’t stand. It just so happened that Baron got signed by my favorite team.
Anyways, this kind of statement from you (swamigusto), makes me wonder if many of you like Baron and not the Clippers.
You can’t deny numbers. I am a number’s guy…..always have been.
"Basketball is life"
No. No. No.
It’s not that I’m a Baron Davis fan! It’s your refusal to see that Baron’s playing better this year than last.
It’s the fact that you love to comment but don’t seem to care about anyone else’s opinion. It’s that, after weeks and months of writing you’re still harping on the same thing. It’s that "locked in a gun safe" remark (wha?) It’s your infatuation with Eric Gordon. Don’t you see that everyone else loves the guy too? But is he perfect? Couldn’t he be better?!
Everybody on this site is Clipper fan! Everyone hated Baron’s play last year! To deny his improvement by introducing shallow stats is absurd!
And then you seem incapable of sensing even the slightest bit of irony! Read the comments above, madglove and mwhite have relevant stuff to say but you ignore it or just don’t get it!
And, if you insist on looking at numbers, look deeper than the boxscores, please!
I’m done. You’re making me crazy. I’m not paying attention anymore.
by John Raffo on Jan 29, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
While you can't deny numbers
Watching the games, Baron is definitively trying harder and being more efffective than last year. I don’t especially like him either, but he IS BETTER THIS SEASON!
The numbers DO NOT tell the story.
BG, EJ, BD LETS GO CLIPPERS!!!
Uh you're not a numbers guy.
You’re barely a rudimentary numbers guy. You clearly can’t understand advanced stats as evidenced by your complete inability to address mwhite’s post or my reply to your patently absurd comment on Monta Ellis.
Clearly all you can understand (and I use that term loosely) is box scores. And your grasp of those numbers is tenuous at best. Anything beyond that goes over your head.
Not surprising.
by madglove on Jan 29, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
ouch...
That "I’m a numbers guy " line definitely betrayed you, my friend. The numbers make it very clear Baron is better this year, watching the game should make it even more obvious. There are a lot of numbers that you aren’t looking at. In the basketball blogosphere, where advanced statistics like “P.E.R.” and “Win’s produced” and “True Shooting Percentage” reign supreme, you are entering a gun fight holding a stick. Also, I should warn you, these posts aren’t making people realize Baron’s flaws, they are galvanizing people’s relationships to Baron. When you make us argue constantly on Baron’s behalf I think you are allowing us to accept the fact that we really do like Baron. Should Brian Skinner be starting at point guard? Yes, of course he should, that would be sick as balls and fun to watch. Baron Davis, however, is currently one of the better point guards in the league, and I’m glad he’s on the Clippers—There’s a reason BSkinnz hasn’t eaten that fool yet.
Yay yay.
So, what's the bottomline...?
To me, seriously, Baron Davis is the last player I’d put the blame on why the Clippers are having a subpar season. Granted, they should be at least a .500 team by now, and it all starts and ends with the team defense, because, more often than not, it’s been a no show. Home games against Cavs, Mavs, Raptors, and Rockets are an example of having all offense and no defense, these were winnable games on which the Clippers just forgot how to defend. Even against the Nets at home, the Clippers coulda won that game by 35-40 points, if they defended, that is.
by DonaldSterlingSucks on Jan 29, 2010 5:34 PM PST reply actions
Good timing for this post
On a night where Baron scores the most points in a quarter in franchise history and is the only one to show up.
Meanwhile, your boyfriend can’t seem to hit a freethrow to save his life. I like EJ, but he’s been playing horribly.
Agreed
is anybody a bit puzzled as of why the whole team is struggling to known down both free throws??
Wow in sure he regrets making this thread. Ohh and by the way nbafan brings up a good point, our we baron fans or clippers fans. Honestly I’ve followed baron since he was in Charlotte, I started being a clippers supporter since he’s been here. Crazy how much get attached to the other players around him though, I couldn’t see me not following this team even if he leaves.
by Sam50 on Jan 30, 2010 3:31 AM PST via mobile reply actions
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