Philadelphia 105 - Clippers 91 - Game Recap
I'm going to apologize in advance for the fact that I just don't have a lot to say in this recap. My intake of the game was disjointed at best - I watched the very beginning, then listened in the car as I was picking up my son from school, then watched some more, then went to my daughter's middle school band concert. Basically, the the third quarter meltdown happened as I was doing three or four different things, and I'm not sure whether I don't have much of a handle on it because I wasn't paying close enough attention, or whether there just wasn't much to see there.
Obviously Eric Gordon had his worst game in a long time. Not only was this his second lowest scoring total of the season, and his lowest total since game two, he was just clearly not sharp. Absolutely nothing came easy. Was that Philadelphia's defense shutting him down? It's hard to say. Eric certainly was not at his best, and mishandled the ball more than usual (he had five turnovers). He finished with 16 points on 18 shots. Given EJ's penchant for getting to the free throw line this season, along with his usually decent shooting percentage (at least for a guard), we're not used to him having fewer points than shots. Indeed, this is the first time this season it has happened.
The shame is that we were hoping that someone else would step up and help Gordon and Griffin put some points on the board, and indeed they did. Baron Davis had 16 points in the first half, and DeAndre Jordan had a season high 15 in the game on 7 for 7 shooting. Although Baron only scored two in the second half, he and EJ combined for 33, which is something when you consider that all the Clippers other than Gordon and Griffin combined for only 30 on Sunday. Unfortunately, this happened to be EJ's worst night in a long while, and the Clippers aren't good enough to win without him right now.
The final outcome can pretty much be traced to a 34-18 third quarter, and even more specifically to a 19-4 run at the end of the period. That run turned a 3 point Clipper lead in to a 12 point deficit, and LA never again got the score within single digits.
Although Gordon's string of 20 point games came to an end, Blake Griffin ran his streak of double-doubles to 13 in a row with a 20-18 game. 18 rebounds is a career-high for Griffin, though I think we can safely assume that it won't be for too very long. Even Griffin struggled from the field though at 6 for 16, and the Clippers as a team shot under 40%. Take away Jordan and Davis who combined to make 14 of 21 shots and the rest of the Clippers were barely above 30%.
This was a good chance to get a road win. The Sixers were on a back to back, and the Clippers outplayed them in the first half. However, they seemed to continually misfire when they had a chance to build the lead into something more daunting. Eric Bledsoe committed a foul on a half court shot to end the first quarter, giving the Sixers a couple free points. The Clippers several times failed to convert fast breaks, which seemed to lead to fast breaks the other way. The Sixers were much stronger closing quarters, and as a result, the Clippers never built a lead larger than eight, and never went into a quarter break ahead by more than three. With the game so close, Philly's third quarter run was able to break it open.
So now the Clippers will have to look for their first road win of the season in Detroit on Friday.
Bizarre Whistle of the Game: Late in the second quarter, Jrue Holiday was fouled by Eric Bledsoe was he was starting a spin move in the lane. Holiday completed the move - awkwardly, and with a couple extra steps - and scored the bucket. And surprisingly the refs decided to count it and give Jrue the and one.
Now, I'm not arguing that it was a foul. And I can even see the continuation in a way - one rule of thumb on the continuation call is whether the player takes a dribble between the foul and the shot, and Holiday definitely didn't dribble again.
The problem is, he needed to dribble again to make the move legal. He took at least three steps, and maybe four - he shot on the way down, and it's hard to tell if he got the shot off before his fourth step hit the ground. But even without the fourth step, it was a travel. In Holiday's defense, I will say that without the fourth step, it was really no more of a travel than the spin move Dwyane Wade makes on an almost nightly basis, which is never called. The difference is that Holiday's looked terrible and out of sync, and I've always suspected that Wade and others get away with that walk because they make it look so smooth and natural. Holiday's move was anything but natural looking.
The proper call then, if you consider that he walked, would have been a non-shooting foul. The foul must by definition have come before the shot if a traveling violation came between the foul and the shot.
111 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
hmm, third quarter collapse happened when you started doing other things.
coincidence?
http://fullyclips.com/ - FullyClips!
That wad at the same time I wasntaking a final
And my first essay had to do with Philadelphi!
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
I have no idea what is going on
Seems like if Baron shows up Gordon won’t! Seems like the Clips are having problems blowing the game open! They have done it several games this season! What’s up with BG getting his shots blocked! Just bizarre like a love triangle…
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
Every time I see the Clippers falling...
I get down on my knees and pray
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 16, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions
thanks now I'll have an early 90's tune stuck in my head all day!
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Lyrics aside
Whats the ask?
Keep it under 12?
Wake up a Knicks blogger?
Freedom for Blake Griffin?
The sweet release of death?
You never posting another thing on this site?
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Oh its the hypocrite?
Don’t you have something negative to fanshot about a player and then whine when someone else mathematically shows why a player is below average?
Is this the point where John R argues that TS% is everything?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
TS% loves Eric Gordon. All the FT attempts and makes.
by Michael White on Dec 16, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
but but but he's just a ballhog . . .
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
3 moments that would have changed the game
In every game, there are hundreds of plays and decisions by individuals that add up to a final score. The major problem with the Clippers is that they need to be perfect to win. Chalk it up to a lack of both talent and experience, but critical plays need to be made, or a game will be lost. The 3 most important ones in my opinion, Steve mentions in the recap about the failed fast breaks.
1. Baron turnover on a break
2. AFA heading up court and not grabbing the board, leaving the three Sixers behind him an easy bucket
3. Bledsoe missed lay up after a sweet behind the back pass from Griffin
Don’t quote me on this but all them happened with the Clippers up by 4 or more points. Instead of an easy bucket for the Clippers, the Sixers got 2 3’s and one lay up. You’re looking at a 14 point swing from those three plays. Of course those don’t account for why there was a complete lack of energy and effort on defense in the second half, but being up by double digits heading into the 3rd would have been a major boost for morale.
One quick note, Bledsoe has really regressed the past few games. He looks like he has lost confidence in every aspect of his game. He’ll get it back, but he’s going to take his lumps in the process. Hopefully the one thing he can take from tonight is how effective a pg can be just by getting in the lane. Baron dominated in the first half getting to the goal, and maybe Bledsoe took note of it :)
I'd add at least one
Gomes missed a layup after a nice feed from Blake. Same type of situation, IIRC, Clippers would have gone up six, instead Sixers make a three and it’s one.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 16, 2010 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
Here another
Clips down 10 after making a basket, and now they’ve regained the ball for presumably the final possession of the third quarter. Foye dribbles several seconds off the clock, but then he takes a single step inside the arc and hurls a brick with 6 seconds still remaining. Philly grabs the rebounds, outraces the defense down court and gets an ‘and one’ at the buzzer. Clips down 13. Extraordinarily stupid.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
man, i'm glad i fell asleep at halftime
not sure my fragile Clippers psyche could withstand witnessing another epic collapse.
Vinny got outcoached again
Vinny got outcoached again, I guess you get what you pay for.Gordon had a terrible second half,.he was doubled teamed and tried to do too much. He hurt his shooting hand. One has to wonder when your top scorer doesn.t take a shot until three and half minutes in the first quarter something is wrong.Gomes is not a starter I would like to see Butler or Cook as small SF.Davis played better in the first half offensivly but his defense sucked.Holiday had a field day against him.
The Bizarre Whistle of the Game...
That drove me CRAZY! It was clearly a travel! It drives me nuts when refs miss stupid things like that, and then they go ahead and count the basket. So stupid.
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
Totally agreed
Three professional refs with six eye balls looking on, they all just missed the travel call! truly bizzare.
by Pats fan in CA on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
a couple of questions
anybody know why Craig Smith’s pt has been relatively nonexistent the past few games? injury or something, or just match-ups?
also, can someone point me to information regarding the in-game rotations? like if i wanted to find out who was on the court during a particular timeframe (and/or their +/- in any given stretch), is there data for that somewhere? i’m trying to get a handle on VDN’s sub patterns so i can talk smack about them later.
I don't know of a site that has a collection of the sub patterns
the only thing I know about is the play-by-play listings provided by some sites. But that is on a per game basis.
the +/- stuff you would have to do on your own…
here are some examples:
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=301215020
http://www.nba.com/games/20101215/LACPHI/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000369#nbaGIboxscore
There are others out there.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
thanks dude
may someone engage you in spontaneous fellatio
Maybe they are trading him
And dont want him to get injured.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 1:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
popcorn machine
It sounds like you’re looking for the game flow from www.popcornmachine.net… here’s the Clippers-Sixers game. They show every combination that was on the floor, and their plus/minus during that time, as well as team runs. It’s a great tool.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 16, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
sweet
thanks for this website
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
lol
my firm blocked it as inappropriate. what am i missing??
"All I wanna do is zoom-a-zoom-zoom-zoom and a-boom-boom."
-Wreckx-n-Effect
really?
just a Chick Hearn quote and links to their charts
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
thanks Steve
something else to do besides sleep!
I think it's time for the FO to do something re players
God knows I’ve been patient. But it’s apparent now that the veteran starters in particular are not going to be able to get the job done to the degree necessary. This is not going to be easy, but they need to decide if we are going into full rebuild mode or not. If we are, it’s time to move Kaman. If we are not, then they better start signing some more vets. I think the former is the only logical choice given the types of contracts that Kaman and BD have.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I think the team is in rebuild mode
There are two problems though:
1. The vets may be hard to trade
2. Outside of EJ and Griffin it is unclear who is really worthy of keeping around for the rebuilding process.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Good points
DJ and Bledsoe and Aminu I suppose
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If you suppose
then you obviously aren’t sold.
I am sure Olshey and Co., have the same feeling as well. So do they hold on to these guys and wait? Or if something can improve the team comes along, but in order to get that the Clips must trade one of these supposed building blocks?
For me I trade Bledsoe and Aminu now. They have only shown that at best they will be good role players. Who knows when their trade value will ever be this high again.
But I am not Olshey, and thankfully I don’t have to make a decision that will be criticized either direction the Clippers choose to go.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
I think I would trade anyone except EJ and BG if it fits within a long term plan
I don’t know what that long term plan is. I do know that BD and Kaman are likely not part of that plan. These are tough issues, and I can say that I’m very happy that they didn’t sign a bunch of high priced vet role players this offseason given that BD and Kaman are underperforming so significantly.
AI2 would be a good fit and he’s still young. I’d trade Aminu and Kaman for him. Would that work? I think we need Bled as a backup PG
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Why long term plan? It should be near future plan
Long term plans should only revolve around superstars. So in this case only around Blake.
Teams should only build with 3 year windows in mind. Look how bad things turned for Portland in such a short time. I am not saying that will happen, but you can’t forget the fact that injuries play a big part in sports, and injuries is the most unpredictable thing.
The teams that do go the long term route only get it right if they have the superstar (Lakers with Kobe, and Spurs with Duncan). All the other successful teams in the league have a very flexible short term (2-3 years) plan.
Clippers keep on thinking long term, and it has never worked out.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Yeah but wouldn't you say BG is a superstar in waiting?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
30 games in...
I can’t deem him a superstar yet. But he is the closest thing the Clips have had in terms of superstar potential.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
I think they should plan based on the fact that he's going to be close to one at least
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Too early to deem Blake a superstar
and yet not too early declare that Aminu and Bledsoe are destined to be “role players”? As usual, talking out of whatever side of your mouth is necessary at any given moment.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
history is on my side
stars shine early
players with “potential” that don’t show it early, turn into role players
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
We don't need five stars
we for sure have one
we might have two
we only need the others to become solid complementary players.
You can be (incompetent and a nice guy), you can be (competent and an asshole), but if you are an (asshole and incompetent), your only future is to be Keith's boss otherwise you are unemployable
Totally agree on this
BG is a superstar. He hasn’t even come close to his ceiling and he makes double doubles nearly every game. We don’t need to trade for stars. We just need some very good role players, which I’d be willing to dump guys for.
Best Trade Assests
Don’t forget the Clippers also have Minny’s 2012 pick and their own pick this year. I think most teams would look for one of these two picks in a trade. They have more value then Aminu, Bledsoe or Kaman right now. I would imagine most Clippers fans would be weary of trading these as they will be high picks with a chance a highly rated prospect. I would like the Clippers to use these to acquire someone now. I think Griffin and Gordon are the building blocks and they need to be surrounded with better players now. With a couple of decent acquisitions I believe the Clippers could be playoff contenders next year. Waiting on picks and 20 year old rookies to develop into decent role players will just take too long. If Clippers fans want EJ and Blake to stay we need to start winning. ASAP
Who do you think they could get using those picks that would fit in long term?
AI2? Melo? SJax (too old?)?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not a ton of options.. but can always ask around
Melo is a pipe dream. Cross him off the list he’s not signing an extension here.
AI2 is an option if he’s available. Your trade you mentioned above is nice but may not be enough for Philly. What if its Kaman, this year 1st round pick (not protected) and Butler or Smith (expiring contract thrown in to even out the contracts a bit)? That’s a bit more enticing to Philly IMO.
Agreed SJax is probably too old but what about Gerald Wallace. Bobcats may not be interested in trading him but if you throw out the Minny pick or even our pick this year they may want to think about it. Same with the Pacers and Granger. Alot of teams may look to trade a decent younger player for the Minny pick.
Best option is probably one thats been mentioned a few times on Clips Nation. Jumping in on the Melo deal and giving up our first round pick this year for Gallanari or Chandler from the Knicks. Would you be willing to get one of them and give up a potential top 3 pick? I would. We know what kind of players they are and they’re still young enough to get better. No guarantee what kind of player the pick this year will be. And they will certainly be better players the next 3 years then the pick will be. And thats what we need to put around Griffin and Gordon now. Alot to think about for the Clips FO
Iggy
Kaman unprotected 2011 pick and Rhino would be too much. Id go Kaman, Aminu and philly native Butler.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 2:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
What if the Sixers don't want Aminu?
They have Thad Young, maybe they’ll pass on Aminu. Would you pass on a chance to get Iggy just to hold on to the “potential” of this year’s pick. I wouldn’t but its definitely a tough decision. Think about it and then think some more.. I still think its a risk the Clips FO has to make if its available.
A lotto pick is worth a lot
like a car the minute you draft a player their value depreciates unless they are a obvious star.
You have to remember the 76ers have Thad and Turner and that Iggy gets paid a lot for more years than Kaman.
Remember the Celtics were able to get Ray Allen for the 5th pick in the draft. That should tell you how much a high lottery pick is worth.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 4:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
great car analogy
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
It even continues on
A high draft pick continues to depreciate the longer they take to show that they are an obvious star. Aminu and Bledsoe are worth a ton right now because they are pretty good and extremely young. But once the youth goes, then they are just “pretty good.”
"All I wanna do is zoom-a-zoom-zoom-zoom and a-boom-boom."
-Wreckx-n-Effect
Bledsoe and Aminu
are probably pretty valuable right now but if Aminu is still a space cadet on defense and Bledsoe is still fumbling the ball over constantly next year then their value plummets. Terrence Williams for instance looked like a good prospect a year ago and now he just got traded for a lower draft pick. If the Clippers can get a known quantity it would be best, too many things have to go right for them to even be decent and the Clippers aren’t known for doing the right things.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you CC
If the Clippers could get Iggy or Gerald Wallace for Kaman and Aminu, I would be thrilled. I just don’t believe it would be enough. A top 5 pick certainly has alot of value but I’m still willing to give it up for the production that Iggy or Wallace bring. I might be a bit premature but I believe Griffin and Gordon are good enough to build a consistent playoff team around. And not 3 or 4 years from now, I’m talking next year. If we have to over-pay for one of those guys with a top pick, so be it. Don’t think any other team could top that offer. Would be hard for Philly to turn down. To me the guarantee that our top 3 for the next 4 years will be Griffin,Gordon, Iggy is enough to give up a pick this year in a weak draft. (Barnes is struggling, Irving is hurt, draft has gotten weak quickly).
CC, I bet you’d be against the trade at first but once you saw Iggy in the starting lineup instead of Gomes you’d come around and forget all about that pick.
Maybe on the pick
I would be okay with it if its top 5 protected. There are a lot of bad teams this year so the Clips could easily move into the mid lottery range with even a modest win streak (3 games in a row).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
They have only shown that at best they will be good role players.
One-third of the way into their rookie seasons, when both are still teenagers, and have shown they’re actually further along than anyone expected, you’re ready to declare this as their ceiling? C’mon. There’s no way to know what the ceiling for either player is right now, but either one is just as likely to become a solid NBA starter as he is a role player.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
take off the homer glasses
players rarely ever get better after 2-3 years in the league.
Stars also tend to be stars as soon as they get into the league. History is on my side on this one. There may be a few exceptions here and there, but history is overwhelmingly on my side.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
let me go further
reliable starters can be found easily.
Do you really want to wait and see? The Clippers have taken this approach forever and have always busted.
The only time the Clippers have had success is when they traded or signed proven vets.
Larry Brown acquired vets and made the playoffs. MDSr acquired vets and made the playoffs.
In the Clippers history alone, it shows the wait and see method does not work for this organization.
Yes, there is a chance it may work, but hasn’t that been the case numerous times already?
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
The Clippers also have to start showing EJ and BG
that they have a plan and are proceeding under that plan. Which is why I made the initial post above. I’m assuming that they want to build around them. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the current team is not going to be sufficient and that they have some tradeable assets that they could use. I think the two players want and expect appropriate moves to be done. If we are unwilling to do that and/or can’t do that because of the past reputation then they will bolt.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
they will bolt if they don't start winning soon
I don’t think they care about a plan.
They would probably rather trade a plan for wins.
Aminu, Bledsoe, and DJ is a plan that hasn’t produced wins now. Also, there is no sure things it will produce wins next year, or the year after that.
I would rather have vets that can produce sooner rather than later. This is a different era; players don’t want to wait for teams anymore. If they have an opportunity to win somewhere else, they will.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Generally teams win consistently
Because of a well thought out plan that has been executed correctly. It is not by accident. Particularly given who this team is BG is likely going to need to feel comfortable about the future. The rookies don’t really reflect any plan. They are playing more because key vets are hurt and can’t perform to expectations.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Dec 17, 2010 7:03 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Actually agree with Jax for most of this statement
except only Bledsoe has played due to injuries to key vets (Baron and Foye). The reason Aminu has played meaningful minutes at all is because the alternatives at SF are so awful not injuries.
But playing the rookies was not the plan in the off-season. No one thought this team would be 5-21 and this is with EJ and BG surpassing pretty high expectations to begin with.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Plus
It’s not an either or proposition. They have plenty of other tradeable assets and 6MM in cap space. You can still bring in productive vets without trading 2 low-cost, promising young players that may still have plenty of upside.
And though you changed the subject, you didn’t actually address what I was calling you out on: The ludicrous notion that you already know what these guys are going to be. If they were 24-year-old four-year college players, like Thornton, you might have some clue. But 19-year-old two months into their careers? Nope.
History is “overwhelmingly on your side”? As you so often like to say, prove it.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
projects for the Clippers alone
Korolev, Livingston, Kandiman, Big Sofo, DJ, Mike Taylor
More famous ones:
Darko, Stromile Swift, Hasheem Thabeet, Joe Alexander, James Johnson, Darrell Arthur, Austin Daye, Johnathan Bender, Travis Outlaw, Daniel Orton…
These are all guys that are recent history and off the top of my head.
Again, history is on my side. Stars are stars early. Guys who don’t produce early either become role players or are out of the league.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Pretty much true
Some of the early HS kids entrants needed time (Kobe, Tmac, KG, Jermaine O’Neal) but for the most part all the stars of the league showed it from year one.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
Oooh, anecdotal evidence
That’s the same as proof! And you lumped in a bunch of older players and 2nd rounders as if that’s the exact same thing! Neat!
All you did was throw out a list of projects that never panned out and draft busts. Duh.
Meanwhile, Chuck actually just tossed out a list that refutes your point - highly regarded young players that didn’t necessarily look like stars 25 games into their rookie seasons. And there are plenty more if you want to play the anecdotal evidence game-Billups, Rondo, Westbrook, Noah, and Bynum, to name just a few from recent years. Oh, and who was that other mediocre point guard that bounced to a few different teams as a young player? Um, Steve Nash, was it?
Look, you’re always dunning people for choosing the eye test over evidence, and now you’re doing the exact same thing, just to “win” an argument. That’s weak.
Yes, Clipper draft picks have not worked out in the past. And yes, other teams have also drafted players that turned out to be busts. Neither of those facts remotely serve as proof that the Clippers’ 2 first rounders from 2010 won’t turn out to be good players. You made a ludicrous statement, I called you on it, and now instead of doing what you just said you “do all the time” — admit you were wrong — you’ve chosen to just dig this hole deeper and deeper.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Not sure why those sentences were crossed out
I meant them.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
I am not wrong
you have given the exceptions to the rule. I never said there weren’t exceptions. More times often than not the rule is followed.
Projects rarely ever pan out. You citing the small percentage that does proves nothing. It only helps my cause.
This simple logic escapes you
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Bullshit
There are hundreds of your so-called “exceptions.” But that’s also not even the point. I’m not arguing about what the right approach is. You keep putting words in my mouth. All I said was that you were full of shit when you said you already know that the best those two players can become is role players.
Dodge, weave, dodge, weave.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
I don't know for sure
but it’s highly unlikely they turn into anything.
With that I said now is the best time to trade them because their value will only get lower as time goes on unless they show they can be productive players in this league. Which right now they are not.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
You don't know for sure?
That’s funny, because the only thing I called you on was your statement that you did know.
They have only shown that at best they will be good role players.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
you can't put Nash there
he was behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd in his first go around with the Suns.
Noah was a solid rebounder and defender from the start. Guess what he is now, that’s right a very good defender and rebounder.
Now your list is shorter.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Can't put Nash in there?
So everyone already knew he would be a future MVP 25 games into his rookie season? No?
Well then maybe it was after his first season as a starter in Dallas, when he was 24. Should we have known his ceiling by then? Because that year he averaged 8 ppg and 5.5 apg on 36% shooting with a PER of 10.9.
Look, I’m not arguing with you about what the Clippers should do. Whether or not we would trade the kids would depend on what value we’d get in return. But it’s still ridiculous to say that you already know what kind of players they’re going to be 25 games into their 19-year-old rookie seasons.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
we will see in a year
you can’t say I’m wrong until then
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Try 3 years
And even then you’d still be wrong for claiming you already know off a sample size of 25 games at age 19.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
But it hasn't been 2-3 years
We’re barely 2 months into their careers. And neither was even expected to contribute this soon. Both were always going to be projects, and are exceeding expectations. Guess you would’ve given up on Westbrook at this point too, huh?
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Well shoot if one player made it
Then all rookies will!
Well shoot if hundreds have done it
Then these two certainly won’t!
Is your bias against me such that a man who always falls back on statistical arguments — even when they are straw men — is going to try to argue, with a straight face, that there’s been enough evidence at this point to assert that the trajectory for these two players is clear? Talk about a hypocrite…
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
your belief that the Clippers can groom players
is amazingly absurd. There is no proof that the Clippers can groom players into anything beyond role players.
Most of the time the Clipper rookies get lucky to be Clippers because they look good since they are on bad teams. Look at Bobby Simmons and Chris Wilcox, they produced on bad Clipper teams and then got paid by other teams. A year after those teams are hating life for overpaying a crappy player.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
They did a horrible job of drafting under Baylor
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/draft.html
Check out these stellar top 15 picks:
Terry Dehere, Lamond Murray, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Taylor, Michael Olowokandi, Lamar Odom, Chris Wilcox, Melvin Ely, Chris Kaman, Livingston, Korolev, Thornton.
The best move they did was trade the 2nd overall pick to Elton Brand.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
exactly TRADES
that is where the Clippers get there best players.
Yes, Blake is a god send. Besides Blake I do not know how well the Clippers have drafted.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Really?
You don’t know how well they’ve drafted? Because just a second ago you declared that you were certain that Aminu and Bledsoe would never be more than role players.
This is actually the honest answer. You don’t know, I don’t know, and nobody really knows yet how good this year’s draftees will be. It’s too soon. They’re too young, and we’ve seen too small a sample size. Trade them, don’t trade them, whatever — just don’t pretend that their NBA fates are already carved in stone.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
EJ
at 7th was pretty good. With the arguable exception of Brook Lopez he’s outplayed everyone drafted after him so far.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, where did I say that?
All I said was your assertion that we already know the ceilings for those 2 players is absurd. Anything else is you putting words in my mouth in an attempt to kick dirt over how ludicrous your statement was. The extent of my position is that we don’t yet know how good Bledsoe and Aminu will turn out to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
so you want to continue the Clipper ways?
the wait and see approach?
That sure has worked out for the Clippers all these years!
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Nice dodge
Did I say that? All I said was that it was ludicrous for you to say:
They have only shown that at best they will be good role players.
All the rest of this nonsense is just you scrambling for a way to be right rather than admitting it’s absurd to declare that you know the ceilings of two 19-year-old first-round draft picks 25 games into their rookie seasons. And if you weren’t hellbent on arguing with me, you’d admit it, because you almost always take the opposite side of this sort of debate. It’s pathetic that you’re clinging to a straw man you can’t possibly believe just because of the screen name of the guy who called you on it.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Truly amazing
After all the times you’ve tried to call me out for not limiting my comments to the exact sentence that someone wrote at one exact moment in time — saying over and over that I took them “out of context” — here you are:
A) pretending I said a bunch of thing I didn’t say
and
B) acting as if I was talking about something other than the exact, verbatim 13-word sentence you wrote.
The irony there is off the charts. I hate to say it, but you are even more intellectually dishonest than John R.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
the wait and see approach is the Clipper way
I find it funny you don’t see this…
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
But that's not what I'm saying
I’m not arguing for one approach or the other. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. All I said was that it’s too early to declare that you already know the ceiling for those 2 players. Period.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
so you think they will be something special?
being a role player is nothing bad.
Role players are very important to good teams. But at the same time role players are pretty interchangeable. They have very little value.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Stop trying to put words in my mouth
I don’t know whether they’ll be something special or not, because it’s too soon to know, which has been my only point all along.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
I didn't put words in your mouth look at the ?
I asked
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Yes
Lots of patience around here. Not much left.
It’s an interesting cluster of events. Kaman’s injury and reinjury. BD’s bad offseason and injuries and sub-mediocrity. And now Sterling jumping in, showing that the starting point of the Clippers is still the fact that they’re rotten at the very top. Bad to worse. Baron was disappointing, but Bledsoe seemed able to fill in, motivate BD, and they could get by. The Kaman injuries have been critical, the determining W-L and general fortunes factor. And Sterling’s still Sterling, only worse, because he makes the Clippers seem like a place that anyone would advise Gordon and Griffin to get away from as quickly as possible. But at least he wasn’t yelling at them, and BD and Kaman have gotten a lot of money to do badly, but still.
Kaman’s absence in the first 25 games (he played extremely poorly in 8 games, 7 of them losses, so he might as well have been absent) is unfortunate, and the question is whether it’s unforgivable. His skills have improved over the 3 years of his deal, but his injuries have been very ill-timed. Even his injury warming up before the funky Memphis game last year came at something like the worst possible moment, and he was healthy for virtually all of last season, when it was Griffin’s injury that killed the Clips.
His 08-09 injury was the defining element of that season. In 07-08, when FElton blew out his achilles, we saw Kaman 2.0, but he still only played 50 games. In 06-07 he had signed his extension, and he was horrible, just not playing well.
I don’t know. I guess I give up. He’s not reliable even when he’s healthy. With yet another injury killing the thin margin for hope for this season, it seems that the die is cast. It’s too late, and it’s hard to see that there’s any upside at all to this season. Yes, Kaman could come back in 10 games and Baron play his way into shape and the Clippers could show how competitive they could be. That would be nice, but what does it get you? Better to trade him and be done with the whole thing, no?
Part of the problem is that you’d like to get some value, and it’s hard to tell who’s out there and how they would fit. The Clippers are so raw and unformed and crippled that it’s difficult to figure out what kind of piece might bring significant improvement. Complicated situation.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
I take it Club O is dead
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 4:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I gave everyone a pass for the first 15-20 games to get used to each other and learn from their mistakes. But it’s come to the point where we need to start winning. Yes, the season is lost for all purposes, but you can’t groom a future winning team on losing. Moves need to be made. I guess people are used to losing, but I find it highly irritating. Play the players that produce. Bench the ones that hurt us. We need better players..make it happen.
Just looked it up. We aren't actually THAT bad.
We are 3-38 our last 41 road games.
Still pathetic.
I've got nothing.
That makes more sense
I was wondering how the Clippers went 3-38 on the road last year and we never mentioned it before. I just found a cost cutting move for DTS, stop sending the team out for road games and just forfeit the road games. Apparently there’s no reason to play them so might as well cut down on travel expenses.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Poor defense before the buzzer, or bad luck
we must be the worst on giving up points right before quarter ending buzzer, first quarter we Bledsoe fouled Williams, he converted 2 of 3 free throws, and the Sixer made a half court basket and fouled, but that shot was . 01 second after the buzzer, the basket was denied or it would have been a 4-point play.
Thank you
Captain Obvious. About 5 months late.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 4:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nick Caner-Medley
Looks pretty good right now. But really, when you look around the league we’re giving up a lot at PG and a decent amount at Center.
Course...
but at least we have the injury excuse with PG and C. Our SFs have been healthy all year and they have been getting destroyed by the opposing SF. It wasn’t as if this is a surprise, we knew what position needed to be addressed in the off-season but failed to execute.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Can't look the SF in a vacumn
The team does not have the players they thought they had. BD and Kaman haven’t showed up. WIthout those two key players, the team just cannot fully compete.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Actually we can
the Clippers have 2 positions filled out of 5 right now. Both PG and C aren’t strengths right now as well but at least there is a injury excuse there and DJ has actually held his own. The SFs have no excuse as they all healthy are they not?
Gomes has a -8.2 PER/48
Butler has a -3.9 PER/48
Aminu has a -10.9 PER/48
They are getting KILLED by the opposing team SFs.
Here are the other starters
BG has a +3.1 PER/48
EJ has a +7.8 PER/48
DJ has a +.2 PER/48
Bledsoe has a -5.0 PER/48
Baron has a -7.7 PER/48
So the team clearly needs help at PG and SF.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 17, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
No, you can't
You need to view the team as a whole and you can’t just look at stats to determine whether the SF needs to be upgraded. If they had a PG and C playing to expectations you would see a different SF.
Enough
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by 














