Denver 109 - Clippers 104 - A Wee Bit Frustrating
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 12:38 AM PST
in Game Recaps
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PrintI'm pretty sure that I can't possibly weave together a coherent narrative to adequately describe this game. So instead, I've decided to just list some of the particularly frustrating things that happened, and I think you'll get the gist from there.
- The Nuggets shot
4959 free throws, and the Clippers shot 29 free throws. - As a result, the Nuggets outscored the Clippers by 25, 45 to 20, from the line.
- Denver's totals for free throw attempts and makes were each season highs for the NBA this year. In fact, it is the highest total of attempts for any team in almost four years, since New York took 63 in a game in December 2006.
- Despite the massive discrepancy, the Clippers stayed close the entire game. They were down one at halftime.
- At the end of a see-saw third quarter that saw the lead change hands multiple times, a Chris Kaman layup cut the lead back down to one with 2 seconds left in the quarter. Ty Lawson took the inbounds pass and banked in a 65 footer to give Denver a four point margin going into the break, and the Nuggets never trailed again.
- While the Clippers were scrambling to get back into the game, Baron Davis knocked the ball away and chased it down on the sideline where he saved it, but Chauncey Billups beat Blake Griffin to the ball, and the Nuggets got - what else - free throws out of the possession.
- Moments later, with the Clippers still desperately trying to climb back into the game, Eric Gordon knocked the ball free into the backcourt. In the scramble, J.R. Smith came up with the ball, in the backcourt, with three seconds on the shot clock.... and EJ fouled him. What else - free throws.
- Despite EVERYTHING the Clippers made enough shots, got enough steals, to have a chance. They got the biggest steal of the game with 38 seconds, down three. They brought the ball up and Brian Cook got a good look at a corner three - he'd made three of them in the quarter to keep the Clippers in the game - but he missed it.
- On Cook's miss, Blake Griffin appeared to be in the best position to get the rebound, but just couldn't get his arms up to it. On the replay, Carmelo Anthony has Blake in a bear hug as he is boxing him out.
- Seconds later, with a chance to cut the lead down to 2, Blake missed the second of two free throws.
- The Clippers got a gift from Al Harrington when he missed two free throws to leave the lead at 3 with 19 seconds left. But the Clippers failed to get the defensive rebound when JR Smith snuck past Blake to tap the ball away.
It's hard to beat Denver in Utah Colorado. It's even harder when they shoot 30 more free throws. When 65 footers are dropping in and you can't get a rebound and you can't catch a break... well, it's amazing that the Clippers were in this game at all.
You know, free throws aren't the most exhilarating part of any basketball team, so 78 of those bad boys is not exactly a boon to my viewing pleasure. But when the team I've chosen to root for winds up on the wrong end of a THIRTY FREE THROW DISPARITY... let's just say it's even less fun.
The conventional wisdom, when such a large free throw disparity exists in an NBA game (ignoring the simplistic and unthinkable possibility of some sort of bias on the part of the officiating crew) usually goes one of two ways (frequently a combination of both):
(1) Team A - the team taking significantly fewer free throws - is a jump shooting team, and/or
(2) Team B - the team taking lots and lots of free throws - was the aggressor, attacking the basket.
Well, the Clippers held a huge advantage in points in the paint in this game (52 to 24), while the Nuggets made 10 of 24 threes, so the first explanation doesn't make a ton of sense - Denver was shooting significantly more jump shots, yet got to the line twice as frequently. Further, the Clippers have been a very aggressive team attacking the rim this season, and in fact were fourth in the league in free throws attempted going into the game. Yet on Eric Gordon's first seven forays into the lane, he came away with no makes, plenty of contact, and no free throws. Blake Griffin, took only 5 free throws on the game. Actually, the Clippers 29 attempts were a little ABOVE their season average of 27 per game; it was the Nuggets, essentially DOUBLING their already high average of 30 free throws per game that was the outlier. So if none of the conventional explanations make sense, then I guess we can only conclude that the Clippers were unusually incapable - I'm talking a statistical variance WAY outside of the standard deviation - of playing defense without fouling this evening. (Bear in mind, we've already dismissed any notion of referee shenanigans on the basis of it being completely out of the question.)
Other notes:
Baron Davis once again sparked the Clippers and Chris Kaman looked quite sharp, making 4 of 5 shots in his return to the lineup after an 11 game absence. Davis and Kaman both picked up 5 fouls which limited their minutes even more than they would have been. When Baron checked into the game in the first quarter he completely changed the momentum in the Clippers favor, at least for a time. Baron had five steals in the game, and it was in fact his defensive pressure that helped turn the tide in the first, and then almost got the Clippers back into the game in the fourth. But it was hard to maintain much momentum amidst the Denver parade to the free throw line.
Al-Farouq Aminu had his deer in the headlights thing going on at the beginning of the game. Two quick fouls, a turnover and 5 Carmelo Anthony points in the first few minutes, and Ryan Gomes was off the bench and checking into the game as I suspected might happen. AFA did make two third quarter three pointers to redeem himself some.
Eric Bledsoe had 9 points and 8 assists - but also had some really terrible turnovers. Two in succession in the fourth quarter were particularly detrimental.
Blake Griffin finished with 17 points and 12 rebounds - which would be a tremendous line for a rookie, if we weren't accustomed to so much more. He had 5 turnovers.
Eric Gordon started the game 0 for 7, missing multiple chances at the rim. But he had a better second half, and managed to finish with 24 points, right on his season average. He's due for a really big game very soon, I'd say.
This was a golden opportunity to get a quality win on the road.
Bizarre Whistle of the Game: It's so hard to pick out just one. I think the play were Baron Davis is boxing out Chris Andersen, and they called a loose ball foul on Davis, I suppose for rooting Andersen out when it appeared that he wasn't doing anything the least bit unusual on the play, was my favorite. It was at a key time also, with 90 seconds left in the third and the Clippers down two. Davis got the rebound, and the Clippers would have had a chance to tie or take the lead. Instead, the lead was back up to four, and Baron had picked up his fifth foul.
Meanwhile, on two separate occasions, Carmelo Anthony sent Blake Griffin to the floor - hard - without being assessed a foul on either occasion. Now, it's true that each occurred in a situation in which referees rarely call fouls. One was on a made Denver layup, and the second was after a foul had already been called against Arron Afflalo. But just because you don't usually get fouls called there, doesn't mean you can't, and Blake could easily have been hurt on either play (in fact he wrenched his shoulder on the second one). In the specific case of the foul after the Afflalo whistle, the first call is by no means a license to do whatever you want. You can't throw a player to the ground, just because he's already been fouled.
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59 free throws, Steve...
… what a frustrating game.
Stuck in limbo.
And uh, Denver is in Colorado...
Stuck in limbo.
Well, I know that...
But have you ever tried to beat them in Utah? Really, really hard. In fact, the Clippers have never beaten the Nuggets in Utah. That’s all I’m saying.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Whoa, totally meta, dude...
Stuck in limbo.
lol
I think that the nuggets are undefeated against ALMOST every team in the league in Utah
Except the Jazz
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah ....59 free throws...even worse than the 49 you stated.
Too bad this game wasn’t on TNT or another national television channel, with Chuck commentating.
This game would have been under HIGH scrutiny.
Proud member of Club FTR.
I'll apologize for triple posting...
….but you have succinctly summarized my feelings regarding this game better than I ever could. I feel like punching a stuffed kitten now.
Stuck in limbo.
Thanks Steve!
I don’t have much to say other than the NBA has a serious problem with their officials.
Bennie Adams and Violet palmer are two of the worst I have ever seen. I don’t see how they have jobs as NBA referees.
Reffing was horrible in this game
Griffin was being abused inside after whistles and he could have easily gotten hurt on the two plays where Melo threw him on the ground. Those plays should have gotten at least at technical if not a flagrant. The EJ foul at half court was really questionable as well. The ball was free and both players went for it, Smith happened to trip over Gordon and because of that he is rewarded to FT’s, just one instance of the horrible job by the refs.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
That EJ foul
That one just seemed unfortunate. Looked like he got his arm… but still, sometimes you’ll see the refs swallow the whistle in a similar situation – 60 feet from the basket, scramble for the ball. It was a huge break for the Nuggets, to be certain.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Half court shot at half hurts in the 4th
by snackbar on Dec 4, 2010 1:35 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Reminds me of that Jason Kidd one
Totally gave Denver momentum to start the 4th
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
F the outcome of this game
Our guys fought hard tonight, and I’m proud of them. The refs can’t take that away.
There were also some very positive signs. Baron and EJ played well together, as did Griffin and Kaman. Bledsoe may have forced things in the fourth, but overall he had another solid and athletic game. Aminu’s outside shot is still sweet, and Cook has won me over to the point that I think we should stop hating on him. DJ appears to no longer be a liability, and I love having Smith as a backup for Blake. We suddenly seem rather remarkably deep. I’m digging our talent and our tenacity. There’s a lot here to like.
An alternative to Club Development may be Club Cohesion. Even if we don’t go to the playoffs, we can still cheer for a growing sense of team identity, along with what each player’s role is. I’m sure we’ll be having plenty of discussions about it in the weeks to come. From what we saw tonight, though, I’m coming back around to favoring the season’s original starters. Baron should retake the reigns, and Bledsoe should back him up. Gomes should start, allowing Aminu to gain his bearings before entering against the opposition’s second unit. Maybe the Chief should be encouraged to take more threes. Maybe Cook is worth having around and shouldn’t be so disparaged. I think Foye will eventually start to play well enough to win a lot of us over. Minutes may even get to be an issue, which would be a nice problem to have. I’m looking forward to seeing how all this unfolds.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Perfectly said
Although I have to point out that Bledsoe always seems a bit out of control during the 4th! Those two quibk steals at the beginning of the 4th did us
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
BD foul factor
Bledsoe will be on a shorter leash with BD back, when he’s not in foul trouble as he was here. Limiting BD’s minutes as he’s coming back from the trick knee is a good thing, but you don’t want the officials doing it for you.
Another item is that VDN is showing that he’s livelier and more creative with his subs and his lineups than MDSr. was. He just doesn’t have the old red-faced undertaker on the sidelines vibe. So I don’t think he’ll err on the side of letting Bledsoe make enough mistakes to really hurt the team. And we’ll see what kind of leash Baron is on, when he comes back. Having both of them is pretty awesome, especially if Baron picks things up and gets in shape and becomes more comfortable and explosive.
VDN also played all three guys for a hearty chunk: Baron, Bledsoe, and Gordon, along with Griffin. Kind of a cool lineup. Lots of interesting choices with guys coming back. Tough to get jobbed like that though.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 4, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with a lot of that
but you lose me when you take the bright side too far at the end. Cook can shoot the 3, and certain situations call for that, but he also may be the least athletic player in the league and can be a huge liability on D. And Foye is a chucker masquerading as a point/combo guard. He jacks up more bad shots than Rasual, who is the object of everyone’s scorn, but the difference is that Sool is supposed to be shooting while Foye is allegedly supposed to be a playmaker.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Maybe a bit too far
Cook and Foye are off topic, too. The main point is that there are a number of moving parts here that seem well suited for one another. At least among our top eight or nine guys, I like what I see.
I’ll should probably save Cook for another day, but I feel like sticking up for him. A lot of us love to hate him, yet he brings some experience and marksmanship to the team, and he is clearly engaged whenever he plays. I actually like having him near the end of our bench. He’s not the black hole that many say he is.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Maybe I just don’t know the shot clock / possession rule well enough, but why did the shot clock reset when Baron saved the ball with about 1:20 left? Didn’t seem to me like any Clipper had full possession of the ball and there was only about 3-4 seconds left on the shot clock when BD threw it back into play. Clips played solid defense, but seemed to be a 28 second play without any ball touching the rim. Maybe I have the rule all wrong, but the rest of the Clipper bench was just as upset as I was.
by besaje on Dec 4, 2010 2:59 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree
I watched that on the DVR 3 times. There was no change of possession, but the clock reset immediately. The refs damage the integrity of the game. They are one of the reasons I’ve stopped watching any other team play.
The league has no interest in having Melo staying in Denver
The NBA would love for him to become a Knick, Net, Laker, Bull, Rocket or Clipper. Big market $
Denver first.
If we're giving motives to the league..
I agree with margabelle. They don’t want him in Denver.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
It should not have
I re-watched also, and clearly the shot clock should not have reset. However, in the scramble, the Nuggets went straight to the basket, and they would have had enough time even had the shot clock been reset. So they blew the reset, but it had no impact.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
this is what i get
for defending the refs in another thread. sorry guys. I was having a bad day as it was, and was hoping for the clipper game to put me in a good mood. I think you all can figure out how that worked out.
I got this from the ESPN recap on ESPN.com and it says it all:
“The Nuggets shot just 31 percent in the first half but led 49-48 at the break on the strength of their foul shooting. They made only 10 field goals in the first two quarters — five of them 3-pointers — while the Clippers hit 20 shots, but the Nuggets held a 24-8 advantage from the free throw line.”
Fuck the refs families!
Fire Jasen Powell!
Watching this game
I felt as though the Clippers were in it the entire game, playing at the same level as the Nuggets. It did not seem that we were lucky. The officiating was horrible. Enough has been said about that. We should continue to improve our chances as we keep getting better.
Really enjoyed the game. Kaman is great for the team now.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Dec 4, 2010 6:57 AM PST via mobile reply actions
They look good
Just a frustrating game. You’re right. It was fun to watch Kaman come back, to see the new mix in operation, even if the Clips couldn’t get a break and things didn’t bounce their way.
Things are on the upswing.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 4, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
How about Bledsoe getting fouled twice under
the basket (the second being the fall that injured Anderson as he landed right on top of Erics back) and a whistle was blown before the shot clock buzzer sounded. The call was shot clock violation? Really? He was fouled TWICE before the freakin buzzer.
by oneight on Dec 4, 2010 7:08 AM PST via mobile reply actions
+1
I saw that and began screaming at the tv..,,it could have been worst, I mean the refs could have said Bledsoe fouled the birdman
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
The way things were going ...
I was surprised they didn’t hit Bledsoe with a flagrant — the way he hurt the Birdman. Might even have gotten suspended.
Oh that's right
He did kick him after, I still can’t believe the birdman blocked Griffin a few times
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
Nothing to see here.. move along
I hate complaining about or blaing the NBA refs. Its pointless. Like screming at the wall. Are the calls going to be inconsistent? Of course Will Superstars always get the benefit? Yes Will losing teams like the Clippers always have more calls against them? Yes again The NBA has repeatedly defended the refs like rich parents defend their spoiled kids. They have also shown they will not do anything about it even though there are countless examples of poor officiating deciding games. This game was horrbile theres not doubt about it. To me there’s nothing we can use from the game. We didn’t see enough of Kaman or Baron in continuous game action to make any comments of how their play can help the team. Clippers fans lets just forget it and look forward. Next game in Portland. They’ve lost 6 straight and are vulnerable. Clips need to come out and play strong. Its a road game they can win. Yesterday’s game is dead to me.
I think the Refs limited what we saw of them
I think Kaman played great coming back after being Injured and with Baron in the lineup the momentum quickly changed in favor of the Clips!
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
Does Vinny or Sterling file a complaint about this?
Not that it would do any good. But, at the very least, it makes it public that this game was officiated with a strong bias toward one team from start to finish.
Cuban is known for doing that...
He sends tapes and memos all the time on bad calls
by ChrisS.Oaks on Dec 4, 2010 12:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So hopefully the FO does something similar
Last night wasn’t a couple of fans nitpicking over some calls here and there. That was just about as obvious an officiating crew can be to showing favoritism toward on team as I’ve ever seen. Last night was ridiculous and an embarrassment to the sport.
by dulciusXasperis on Dec 4, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
This was exactly what i was thinking of!
Management has to send a tape of this game to the NBA because the discrepancy
was an overall outrage. I can understand when you are calling it both ways but this
was ridiculous. The foul on Blake from Carmelo should of been a fragrant foul.
At least inform the league that teams are going hard at Griffin to keep a watch on
that for future games because if he keeps getting foul like that someone is going
to get hurt.
Besides a lost, it's all very encouraging..
we battled Denver at their high altitude home court for the whole game, played better ball and got contributions from all players, young and old, in only the 20th game of this season. I would take that anytime. A great job, Clippers!!
Vinny better have included a postgame speech to the players
reading: fuck denver, fuck the refs, u guys played hard and WON. its a L on the w/l column but any team would lose under these circumstances.
Vinny should have gone of on the refs
Would have been a site to see
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
It's always hard in sports
when you do everything right but still get held back for the win. It’s like when your girlfriend breaks up with you and says, “it’s not you, it’s me.” Well, NBA, it’s not the Clippers, it’s you and your over-assertive referees that call a lopsided game.
For shame.
Hell of an effort though. Despite everything we were just one shot away the entire game. I can’t help but to think that games like this (and Utah/Detroit/Phoenix/etc) are losses now that will turn into wins later.
Believe it or not
I taped the game but haven’t watched the fourth quarter yet. It was on NBA Season Pass and I got the Denver announcers, since I live outside LA. In any event, believe it or not, they were complaining about the officiating. If these guys are homers like that every game, I never want to listen to them do a game again.
Carmelo shoots 18 zillion free throws and Gordon doesn’t. In time he’ll get the calls Anthony seems to get consistently.
I love how the Clips are competing.
Our homers did catch a weird play...
where we made a free throw, Melo is pressing the inbound pass, your guy standing out of bounds bizarrely checks the ball to Melo, Melo even more bizarrely throws the ball to the ref instead of going up for a layup, and the ref gives it back to your guy to start over.
Weird.
Denver first.
not weird
technically if melo threw it back at the ref, ref standing out of bounds, then melo threw it out of bounds therefore clipper ball
But what was your guy doing, and what was Melo doing?
Two wrongs made a right, I guess.
Denver first.
in a clipper scenario, cook wasnt the intended inbounder so he rolled it in for someone else.
in a denver scenario, it was a turnover that melo, a pretty good IQ basketball player, didnt catch and simply threw it back out of bounds.
all in all it ends up being clipper ball
Did I miss this play?
When did this happen? I’d love to watch it on the DVR and see what we’re talking about.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
It was in the second half, I think late 3rd quarter or early 4th
If you DVR’d the Nugget broadcast, they went back and replayed it a couple times. Don’t know if your broadcast team noticed.
Denver first.
I'll check...
If Cook was in, I think that’s early fourth.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Just a note..
I think it was on NBA TV by this time and they were showing the Nugget broadcast. From what I can remember Cook took the ball and stepped out but he wasn’t completely out of bounds. I want to say his right foot was still on the line when he dropped the ball. I’m amusing the refs and Melo both assumed he hadn’t completely established himself as the in-bounds passer yet. When I saw the replay I thought it was close but certainly wasn’t blatant enough to call it. Especially since that call is practically never called. But with the refs from last night, who knows?
I took a quick look, but didn't find it
I remember the play now… Ralph and Mike ignored it, and I convinced myself that he just wasn’t out of bounds, in which case it’s nothing. If he was out of bounds, then sure, Carmelo should shoot the layup.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Nene
I will say this.. Nene certainly wasn’t getting any breaks from the officials. He fouled out, and each of his last two fouls were very suspect (and each were big calls also). If the refs only agenda had been producing a Nuggets win, those two calls don’t happen, or go against the Clippers. So it’s hard to envision a specific agenda here – just crappy officiating, unfortunately influenced by which team is home, and some superstar treatment. Hard to imagine in a game with so many whistles that Melo has one foul until the final 30 seconds, particularly considering that he took down Griffin twice.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 4, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
I think all the fouls helped you guys
Denver is a streaky team and I don’t think we ever got on a run bigger than 8-0 at any point. The physicality kept Denver from ever getting a rhythm. 2 FTs are harder than a layup, shooters don’t get their mojo, the hometown crowd falls asleep, our star player got frustrated played selfish and shot like crap, and you guys had a chance to win within the last 2 minutes.
I think you all did foul a lot, and good on you — it almost worked.
Denver first.
Doesn't seem very objective...
The Clips aren’t particularly deep and don’t really employ a hacking defense. They don’t have the bodies or the inclination for that kind of game. And if it were true that the Clips commit a lot of fouls we’d have seen this sort of imbalance before.
Nope. Not buying margabelle, the refs simply called a lopsided, home-centric game. The Nugs didn’t play a particularly good game and had they not been getting the calls they wouldn’t have won. In the long run, does it matter?
the biggest problem which reveals officiating disparity...
..is that that the Clippers don’t get across the board officiating nirvana like denver did tonight, at best they will be even.
I can live with home “court advantage”, if we got it. If we did get it our home wins would be just a few more
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
by Takebb909 on Dec 4, 2010 1:46 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah
you’d have been down at least 20 points when you made that run.
by MagnusVonKilgore on Dec 4, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Take a look at the fouls you committed
The issue here is consistency. Melo went to the line when Aminu brushed his shoulder on a layup. Arguably a foul, perhaps, but now look at all of EJ’s first half drives to the rim. I don’t see how anyone with integrity can deny the disparity.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
it almost sounds as if
lay ups are the only way to score… u ever heard of how free throws can get a shooter going? why didnt the free throws get ur shooters going then? they didnt HAVE to lay it up. with all those free throws u’d think they would start shooting but no denver knew that regardless of any lay up they took a foul call would likely happen.
Oh well...
Being a Nugget fan and seeing how they like to play and how they usually win, I’ve never seen that winning formula before. Melo and Billups are good at drawing fouls and both use that strategy when the offense is struggling and the Nugs need to stop a run or maintain until JR, Lawson or Afflalo trigger a run, but the run never happened. Just drive, whistle, drive whistle, make a 3, miss a 3, drive whistle and so on for a boring sluggish 3 hours.
Denver first.
Drive whistle drive whistle
Wasn’t fun for us either. Imagine how slow it would have been had we received the same calls.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Good rationale
Subjectivity is a beautiful thing. Not a bad way to see it.
Have to say that I’ve never seen frustration like this, specific ref-blaming frustration, in the history of ClipsNation. Pretty much a consensus. Does anybody else remember the citizens quite this unanimous and ornery?
Which is to say that the Clippers make plenty of errors themselves and do all sorts of things to lose, and we turn on each other and have all sorts of disagreements, all the time. So this isn’t just standard, “Chauncey and Melo are good at drawing fouls.” Griffin and Gordon are good at drawing fouls too, and so is Craig Smith and Eric Bledsoe and the rest of the team, especially when they’re aggressive and going to the basket.
It’s really just a matter of choosing to call certain things (on the Clippers), while letting other things (by Denver) slide. It’s a mindset. And it doesn’t need to be completely conscious or actively malicious. It’s just odd and frustrating when it adds up to such a discrepancy. Yes, the calls on the Clippers could have been made, and they were. And there was pretty much the same contact and fouls by the Nuggets, but they weren’t called. Simple as that.
The effect comes when Kaman gets an extra whistle, when Davis gets an extra whistle, and they go sit down. You saw the same thing with Nene, one guy who didn’t get the best calls, and he wasn’t around at the end of the game. But I can’t remember seeing a box score with so many personal fouls in it as the Clippers had. It was crazy: 4-4-5-5-4-6… whatever.
by citizen zhiv on Dec 4, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Refs
I must agree they favored Denver and it pisses me off because the Clips should have won it the officiating wasn’t so bad! But that’s basketball! Sometimes we are going to get calls our way and that’s just the way it is! Minus the turnovers and bad luck, Clips played great! Kaman and Davis looked great in their limited minutes, our defense looked better and more aggressive (but we still need to work on the perimeter defense), the team is coming together and making shots when it counts (Cookie)!
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
baron
having been a baron basher, its nice to see his play over the past 2 games and i hope that he has made a firm commitment to the clips and its not just “a pasiing fancy”…the ref calls have been this way since ive been following the clips which was 1986…it was absolutely ridiculous last night…and finally, we need an “enforcer” who is willing to put the other teams best player on the deck whenever blake, gordon, bledoe, whomever is placed in harms way…someone (im voting for rhino) needs to crash into someone and restore order…we seem to be taking a passive attitude on retaliation..a couple of years ago voskuhl took out zach…this year blake is being grabbed, thrown,etc without repercussions…the clips need a “thug”..they need a modern version of loscatoff (ok im dating myself) or wayne embry…they need a tough guy who will commit some hard fouls(not dirty) and retore order.
Yes totally agree
Cus they better check themselves before they wreck themselves!
"Word to your moms, I came to drop bombs"
The Enforcer
I was thinking about this. You’re right. They need an extra level of toughness. It’s a real problem.
The candidates are DJordan, Smith, and Collins, but they’re all too nice. I guess Kaman could do it too, tap into his inner badass a bit.
Jordan probably has to be the guy, and he has to make it part of his gameface and attitude. He’s doing really well, rebounding and playing really good defense. This is something else that he can add, and it’s a matter of focus.
We all know that Jordan and Griffin are big buddies, that they hang out and have a great time together. Griffin has helped Jordan learn to work hard, and he’s making him better.
So now Jordan has to protect Blake Griffin. It needs to be very clear. If anyone messes with Griffin and fouls him hard, they will be fouled very hard by DeAndre Jordan. If they go come anywhere near the paint and they’re in range, whether going to the basket or rebounding, they’re going to take a shot.
The beauty of it is that Jordan is expendable. The Clippers have Kaman. And it’s just right spiritually, because of Griffin and Jordan’s friendship.
It’s better for Griffin to take the blows and just keep playing, never retaliate. But the Clippers need to have some one who makes it clear that it’s got to stop, that it’s not going to happen. What would Boston do if guys were banging on one of their players like the way that Griffin is getting fouled? The little punk Carmel Anthony didn’t only bump him in the air and then wrench his shoulder, but he was aggressive and punk enough to wrap Griffin up, putting both of his arms around him, on a crucial rebound at the end of the game. He’s in his house and he knows it’s not going to get called, but it also happens because there was no response to his earlier aggressiveness.
Blake is a classy guy and he’s taking his rookie lumps. But stuff is going to keep happening, and the Clippers have to figure out a way to respond to it. If the team gets tougher about protecting Griffin (and Gordon), and making their fouls count a little bit more (since they’re going to call them anyway), they’ll be a better more aggressive team.
C’mon, DJ. You can do it. Don’t let them mess with him. Don’t let him get hurt.
I'm not sure I see it this way, Zhiv...
I don’t think the NBA needs thugs. Oh sure, they’ve had them, Charles Oakley often played the thug for the Knicks, but I don’t think it’s necessary here. And I think with such a young team it may backfire and cause the player’s to lose focus.
I’d would like to see the coaches take the refs to task, and I think the front office should make formal complaints to the league office when guys like Paul Millsap or Carl Landry (or Carmelo) take shots at our rookie phenom. I wouldn’t even mind seeing the player’s defend each other a bit, but a “thug” or “enforcer” seems unnecessary.
Beyond that, it cracks me up that you think that DeAndre would be an appropriate guy for the job. He’s improving on the court, doing some positive things for the first time in his career. Let’s focus on that. But, DeAndre’s really a big goofy kid with a charming affability… I just don’t see any “enforcer” in the guy.
It is necessary beacause other teams are intentionally
fouling Griffin hard. Someone needs to show them that they can’t get away with that, if not the refs it has to be one of our players.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
actually last night im came to the same thought and conclusion
We due need an enforcer and yes I finally decided on DeAndre for many of the same reasons. Its already in him.
Swamigusto, let me clear one thing up. I brought this up ealier this calendar year. An enforcer I’m referring to is not a Dennis Rodman or Reggie Evans, but does anyone remember PJ Brown. Remember when he hip-tossed a Knick guard (I’m thinking Charlie Ward) in that intense playoff match-up. PJ Brown was a runner up or winner for the NBA’s award for best sportsmanship. You don’t need to be a knuckle head to be able to step up to a teamates defense and enter the opposing players personal space and say “Hey!!”, when your teammate was just shoved to the floor or neck wrangled. A coach can be an enforcer to the refs too, even without getting ejected or a tech.
DJ can be that guy, just like Blake and Baron can be that guy for Gordon.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
by Takebb909 on Dec 4, 2010 3:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Enforcer vs. Thug
I get your point. And I’m not talking about playing dirty or being a jerk and a tool. Just to have an extra-aggressive, physical mindset. Not to back down, not to move on, if some one on the other team knocks Griffin around. Let the Enforcer just focus on, look for the guy, make the play, make his point. Once the policy is in place, it’ll stop it from happening.
You’re right that DJ is an unlikely and even comical candidate. But I think that might be what makes him perfect. Number one, he genuinely cares for Griffin, so he should naturally want to have his back. Two, he can bring his arms down on a guy, elbow for position, even get into it and shove somebody, and throw down and even get suspended, and it doesn’t matter! He can’t be a doofus about it. And DJ could use to be tougher and more focused. He’s doing a good job lately of concentrating on his game and keeping things simple, and he should go on doing that. But as soon as somebody acts up on Blake, DeAndre should see red, and just think about one thing. Let the guy who did know that it’s not okay.
You’re probably right. There’s no good way to do it. The refs and the league have to take care of it. If they don’t, Blake would eventually take good care of himself.
But the Clips could be tougher.
I agree that Blake shouldn't retaliate on his own.
The rest of it is so Laimbeer-ish. The officials are not going to like it, so it will almost certainly cost points. And if you’re going to do it, it needs to be done without anger. And it can’t come from the coaches, it has to come from the player(s).
Might I suggest another candidate to do the job? Ryan Gomes. He’s pretty big, pretty tough, and he seems able to keep his head. If he’s a glue guy, then this is a glue guy job, right?
I’d still rather see VDN scream and take a technical than have a player “retaliate”.
It's just another reason why we should have brought Sofo over.
He’s known for hard screens and he’s not afraid to throw down.
Proud member of Club FTR
Very encouraging...
…other than the loss. Great to see Baron and Kaman come back and play well. If it continues, more wins will be on the horizon.
They may still can get more than 35+ win this season as the way they played lately.
only to win half of the rest 64 games plus the four wins that makes a 36 win season, which is not bad at all.
Field Goal Attempts in the Paint
Here is a chart of both teams field goal attempts in the paint via ESPN:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=301203007
There so many misses there for the Clippers. So, the issue is not that the Clippers were taking too many jumpshots. They were forcing the ball into the paint.
The one thing I am not sure about is if the X’s on that chart also correspond to missed shots that lead to free throws.
Nope
Attempts that draw fouls would not show up. All those Clipper misses are Gordon getting bumped (no call) and Birdman blocking shots (while landing on players, no call), etc.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Birdman blocking shots
While landing on players, no call. Good one. I didn’t think about that.
The first quarter is the reall kicker, lol.
Look at all those Xs in the paint for the Clippers. Four of them are EJ from 2ft and 4ft, lol.
A Good Solid Loss
In losing to the Denver Nuggets last night, the Clips played a good, solid game for a bottom of the barrel team. Griffin and Gordon played at a high level, rookies Bledsoe and Aminu had their moments, and there was hope for immediate improvement as both Baron Davis and Chris Kaman played effectively coming back from injuries. The Clips played hard the whole game and didn’t get discouraged even as the refs decided to rain foul calls down on them and Ty Lawson was sinking a miracle three to end the third period. When crunch time came, the Clips got into the hands of their hottest shooter, Brian Cook. When he missed, they attacked again.
At this point, there’s two paths forward for the Clips. The Clipper organization has had three strong drafts in a row and has done a solid job of player development for years. There’s a lot of good reason to critize Clipper ownership, but the club has been very patient with Chris Kaman and DeAndre Jordan and the patience is paying off. Likewise, I’m sure it’s not just luck that Bledsoe and Aminu are playing so much better now than they did in summer league. Right now, Griffin and Gordon are playing at all-star level, Kaman might get back to all-star level, and Baron Davis, Eric Bledsoe, and al-Farouq Aminu are all exceeding expectations. Likewise, the team is playing with heart and determination and the players are bonding with each other and putting in a lot of extra effort. There’s a lot of losing teams that can’t say nearly that much.
In the short term what the Clips need most is much better team functioning at the defensive end where they’ve been playing very poorly. The Clippers also need to integrate the veterans returning from injury and continue developing all the really young players. With that, the Clips might be able to overcome the turnovers, unfavorable refereeing, the miracle shots by guys like Ty Lawson, and the general bad luck. Any sports organization with as bad a history as the Los Angeles Clippers is going to have to overcome these kinds of barriers if it hopes to succeed.
And it happens.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Atlanta Falcons, Northwestern U, and the University of Kentucky are good examples of traditional football doormats who raised their games. The Falcons did an especially great job of recovering from the Michael Vick debacle.
If the Clips don’t start jelling this year, they’ll have to continue the player development route until player talent and coaching acumen finally jell into a winner. Personally, I don’t think they’re that far away and it’s mostly a matter of getting the current group to play with the same defensive fire that Griffin and Gordon have on offense. But that’s a lot easier said than done when an organization has no tradition of success.
I'm sorry guys but Stern said his ref were clean....
And this game clearly look like the fix was in. If i was the league i would keep an eye
out on these refs.
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