Pride and Professionalism
It's difficult to imagine that less than a month ago, the team was peaking at Memphis, one game below .500 before the water main broke. Back then, the most incendiary topic on the blogosphere was the ineptitude of the Dunleavy led Clippers team to blow large leads and lose games. Most of us were questioning how a talented team like the Clippers can't overachieve like the Rockets, Grizzlies, Thunder, injury-riddled Portland & Hornets, and whether Dunleavy was capable of coaching a roster that he has assembled. After tonight's debacle against a Golden State team that suited 7 players--missing Monta Ellis, Maggette, Anthony Morrow, Azubuike, Brandon Wright, Radmonovic, Raja Bell--it has become painful to watch the depths to which this team has fallen.
Whether or not Dunleavy's removal/resignation at midseason was a good idea, the team now faces a serious existential crisis after only three games under Kim Hughes. Losses, to an extent, are to be expected when there is a regime change and a rookie coach step up to the plate for the first time. Sometimes, there can be a burst of energy and enthusiasm if the players are worn down from the previous regime. In and of itself, an 0-3 start is not cataclysmic. But an unsettling malaise that reared up in the San Antonio game became a full blown crisis tonight against Golden State. The lack of pride and effort tonight from the players was disturbing. It is almost as if, now freed of Dunleavy's hectoring, they no longer have any accountability toward themselves or their teammates. The lack of any semblance of effort on defense, never mind teamwork, is an embarassment that defies description. Losing to such an undermanned Golden State team might have been acceptable, to a degree, but losing the way they did hint at a deeper poverty of the spirit and it calls into question the viability of every man on the roster, which is painful to say.
Chronic losing, in a way, is corrosive to a player's psyche. But sometimes, a loss like tonight can be more damaging than a ten game losing streak. Embarassing losses are part of life in the NBA. Teams will get hot and despite your best efforts, you will get torched from time to time. But tonight, the blowout administered to us by Curry, Morrow, and someone named Anthony Tolliver was just numbing. It wasn't them getting hot so much as we allowed them open shots time and time again and we didn't seem to care. And once again, like the San Antonio game, we could not muster any semblance of a run to make a respectable showing against a seven man squad. As their lead grew ever larger, I kept waiting for the Clippers to buckle down as in the Memphis game at Staples, but they played as if they had never played defense as a unit before. We continued to leave guys open all over the floor,and more often than not, Baron never bothered to even run at the shooter. Maybe we believe that to be a free flowing running team, we just need to leak out on defense and shoot quickly and forget about all the other stuff. When a team is getting embarassed like we are, the players either come together with the intensity needed to save face, or they simply give up. If a team gives up, it becomes every man for himself. There is alot that can go wrong and very badly in the last 30 games of the season. The most damaging maybe the downward trajectory of our promising young players as they look to pad their own numbers for free agency and develop selfish habits in an environment where the whole team just don't give a damn.
The psyche of the franchise is very fragile. Even amidst the malaise of the 19 win season last year, I never saw that Mardy Collins, Freddy Jones, Novak unit gave up like they did tonight. Every man on this roster now has to stew over the All Star break and come back together to face another wounded team in Portland. For the most part, during the first 40 games of the season, the team has always bounced back after soul crushing losses. How they respond after the break will tell alot about the collection of players we have and whether the team will have to be completely rebuilt once these players have lost all faith in one another. I had thought that there were more downsides than upsides if Dunleavy were to leave abruptly in the middle of the season. I had thought it was better to wait until summer and make a serious run at someone like George Karl if Denver were to let him walk. That way, there would have been an orderly transition toward a new coach with real authority, and the team can continue to modestly improve on its record and develop its young nucleus with some stability in its remaining games, with an eye toward next year. Never, did I thought that things would turn so badly so quickly, and that the downside might be the complete dissolution of this once promising roster.
The heart of our players and their pride are the only thing left that matters this year. We can throw out wins and losses and offensive philosophy. They just have to muster the desire to compete as a unit. If not, they will just be sick of seeing one another in the locker room, and they will all be marking time until their stay in the infamous Clippers prison is over. As a long time fan, it is demoralizing to see this team sliding toward a familiar abyss. I am more saddened than upset at our performance tonight. I hope the players and coaches feel some sense of remorse for their lack of pride and professionalism.
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Pride & Professionalism
where can the clips get sum o’ dat!?
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
Some good points
The team didn’t try hard…..Golden State was hot, Baron was not involved, etc. Kim Hughes let Kaman linger on the bench at the end of the first, then took his time re-inserting him. I just don’t get it…how do you expect to go on a run with Mardy Collins and DeAndre Jordan in the game at the same time?
I wish Eric Gordon was more selfish, Several times tonite, there were several possessions in a row when Gordon never touched the ball. It’s just maddening that the Clips don’t call plays for him.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
I doubt we'll get any professionalism from Baron or Kaman this season.
Kaman got what he wanted by making the All-star game so, he’ll just go back to being a stiff after the break which he’s pretty good at. Hasn’t anybody noticed how poorly he’s played after being selected to the All-star game? He could care less on how his team does, therefore he becomes less aggressive. I wish there was a way for Stern to deselect him because you can’t reward losers.
As for Baron, he plays only if the games mean something which right now, they don’t. He’s been playing pretty terrible ever since Dunleavy stepped down. You want to get “pride” from Baron? I’d say you hurt it by having someone else start in from of him with a player that actually gives a damn. This way, Baron will get the message that it’s more about the team and it’s future rather than it being about him.
i dont care if we lost by 40 points
a true leader would’ve gave it his all, all the way to the end. Sometimes there are more important things than winning..
Can you spell tank?
A no win situation for Kim Hughes. The Clips sign BD to a big contract 2 years ago and designate him the cornerstone of the franchise. The local guy who does good things in the community. Hughes can’t sit him because Sterling would have a cow. They’re invested in BD. He will be a Clip next year and the year after because no one would want to take on his contract. The Clips will trade Camby sometime soon which will give BD and the team another excuse to tank. Gee, we lost our #1 draft choice and traded our best rebounder and interior defender. It takes time to blend in a new player and learn a new offense. How can we be expected to compete? There’s always next year.
It’s all about producing personal numbers now. Kaman will be sure to get his shots, BD will dominate the ball enough to get his double figure points and assists. Butler’s playing for next year’s contract and so forth. Gordon, counting the time until he can go elsewhere, Save your energy for the offensive end of the floor. You get the point?
the good news is....
many of these players wont be back…thank god….mardy collins, gone…rasual butler, gone, …ricky davis gone…novak gone (if you arent going to use, why bother)…even camby is not playing with any passion anymore…has it ever occured to anyone that maybe dunleavy got everything out of these guys that could be had? and baron (give me freedom) davis is a total waste of $65MILION…he came here last year, out of shape, mentally and physically unprepared and this year he tanked again…any top flight point guard could have, at least, got this team to .500…i cant put it any other way, BARON DAVIS SUCKS…and kaman is only concerned with shooting.
next year the team will be built around gordon and blake…those are guys that need to step up and be counted…at least dunleavy isnt afraid of pulling the trigger on a trade…maybe we can luck out again and get john wall from kentucky and sit baron…we will never be able to trade baron(oh! no an actual playbook) davis.
Gonna take a miracle to get Wall
Though at the rate we’re losing games we’re slowly dropping down to greater our odds.

Just tank away Clippers, next year will be your year ;)
by dulciusEXasperis on Feb 11, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
Not necessarily a miracle
I’d say the Clips probably end up like the 7th or 8th worst in the league depending on whether they trade Camby and what they get for him.
It’s certainly possible to make that jump into the top spot or at least top 3.
Question is, if the Clips get the 2nd or 3rd pick, do you pick the talented small forward who already cracked his spine (Evan Turner)? He fills a huge need but drafting a guy who already suffered a scary injury is just asking for a career ending injury when you’re the Clips.
In three years I'll have gone from STH to half STH
to Big Game Package (next year). Way to go Clippers. I barely have enough energy to post – and Kudos to Michael Cage (and others) who still care enough to expound.
you are not alone
but I have done it a lot faster lol
this year I was completely skeptical in the preseason and only decided on the big game package
I didn't renew but my rep didn't give up on me, and when they drafted
Blake I figured “why not?” That’ll show me.
Yup...
I have been steadily going to less games as well. I went to 30+ home games in 2007-08, 22 home games in 08-09 and this year I’ve majorly declined to 4 home games. I doubt I will go to more then one more game this year.
And next year, I may not go to any if they keep playing like this.
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
Patience, young padewan
Let’s just see what happens. I know that they’ve been saddled with bad contracts, poor personnel choices, and the like. Getting rid of the bad coach was step one (although in my mind it was step two). The next step is to bring in a good GM. It’s going to take a while to right this ship.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I don't think the GM has much, if anything to do with what's happened the last 3 games.
It was clear (to me, at any rate), that the team had given up when we lost those games against NJ and Minnesota. When Baron scoring his 23-point-quarter, the Wolves called a timeout, and BD roared as he walked to the sidelines. Normally, in this situation, the bench is pumped and the team gets fired up. Instead, the bench looked surprised, and the guys on the court just walked to sit down during the time out. A couple gets tapped Baron on the back, but there was no chest bumping, fist pumping, or other excited body language. Other than from John Lucas, of course.
Can Lucas still play? Suit him up
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
My point is
that what you are witnessing is a symptom of larger issues that need to be addressed from the top down IMO.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Jax I'm with you
I am not giving up, but at the same time I am not saving up money to pay for seats. Heck I am now probably going to decrease to about maybe 4 games next year: LeBron, Durant, CP3, and probably whatever team Wall lands on.
The owner needs to call out each player on the carpet
and tell them to shape up or ship out! He should threaten to trade all their asses by the Feb. 18th deadline if they don’t go out there and earn their money! Plus the team should give an apology to the fans for the debacle against Golden State – to be given before the start of the next home game – as well as a promise to give 100% effort for the remainder of the season. That would be a great signal to the fans (especiallly STH’s) that the ownership really cares.
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
by Cliptomaniac on Feb 11, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Half the players would probably love to be shipped out.
So the trick would be to send them where they don’t want to go. Maybe there should be a franchise in Alaska or something.
Lol!
Yeah, and we could call them the Fairbanks Tanks.
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
by Cliptomaniac on Feb 11, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
I totally saw that too
And was thinking the exact same thing. Baron ends the quarter on a ridiculous run and the rest of the team looked like Eric Gordon clones – : I
Like I’ve said before, this season was a lost LONG before the last 3 games. That’s why it made sense to fire Dunleavy. They weren’t salvaging the season.
It’s pretty embarrassing though how they’re performing out there. Baron is way too emotional. When everyone is down and they’ve given up, he tries to lift them up a little, but gives up on that pretty fast. Then he mopes around like everyone else. He’s not good as the #1 leader. He needs a co-captain who can lift him up when he needs it. That’s the role that Stephen Jackson played in GSW. Camby is a true professional and a veteran presence, but he’s not a leader per se. Even Sammy had Cat to help him in the locker room.
Madglove: In your opinion, when was the season lost?
If it was “lost LONG before the last 3 games”, when was it?
Was the season lost when we were one quarter away from being a .500 team at Memphis (which wasn’t that long ago, at least in my book)? But was it perhaps already a lost season for you at that juncture?
Was it when it was announced that Blake wasn’t coming back? Or was it before then?
And if so, what are you using to determine “success”… or whatever it is that is the opposite of a “lost season”?
I posted this on another thread last week – what criteria are we using the determine success? Is it simply W-L? Is it when all players have bought into a system – no matter what the system might be? Is it only a success when the team has transformed itself into whatever system you believe it should be running i.e., it’s not the just the “ends” that matter, but also the “means”….
And against all of that, what criteria should we have been using at the start of the season?
And should we be using different criteria now than we were using before the coaching change?
These are tough questions. And I believe that there are many people on this website that are arbitrarily shifting their criteria simply to support whatever preconceived notion that they wanted to prove at the start. (Madglove, I’m not necessarily talking about you – you just happened to make the right comment to spur this thought).
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Feb 11, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe it's just me, but on a professional level I look at
success as based on wins and loses.
Without context?
Rather myopic I would think.
Thus this answer is either very myopic or extremely incomplete.
But very useful if you need to move the goalposts at some point as the question alluded.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
by John R on Feb 11, 2010 2:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Myopic, seriously?
And you base success on what? I said earlier this season I’d consider 35 wins or more a success for this team. Would I consider 30 wins a success, no.
Would I consider 40 wins a success, certainly. And it’s all based on wins and loses.
Executing the game plan equals success
Great questions which you raise. I don’t agree that it’s necessarily wins and losses that define success. It’s creating a game plan and executing it. Two recent examples: Portland when they decided to go young and rebuild even if they had to take several steps back AND bringing in players who would be a credit to the community. OKC decided it made sense to build around a nucleus of young players in a new market which would have lots of patience. No attempts to short cut the process. Example, bring in Westbrook at the point, give him minutes, and build around the nucleus. Don’t focus on wins and losses, focus on developing your young talent and show improvement game to game. The Clippers and other unsuccessful franchises don’t have a game plan. And, if you don’t have a plan you can’t execute or have success.
What do you think?
Do you think the season has been lost?
If so, when?
If so, why?
These are good questions as you’ve said and I look forward to your answers. Alot of people have preconcived notions, perhaps more aptly described as agendas, whether they recognize them or not.
For me, success is reflected in W-L but it is obvious based on how the team plays on the court. The W-L is a reflection of that.
I personally thought the season was likely lost before it started because I don’t thnk that MDSr is a good coach based on his track record and there were too many personnel issues with the team. However, the team started playing better in the stretch you alluded to, so I begam (against my better judgment) to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then the bottom fell out rather quickly.
I for one am happy he’s gone but I recognize that there is going to be a long rebuilding process. BD for one thing is a significant issue due to the length of his contract, his age, and his declining physical skills. So is the lack of what I would call competent management. I hope that DTS and folks will hire a competent young GM to get things started, but only time will tell.
Even for those who are sad to see MDSr go, surely they recognize that there really has to be some adjustment. After all they were still pulling for him to stick around after seven years of sub .400 basketball.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's not the coach because coaches don't matter,
neither do wins and loses. I give up.
stick to your convictions
There are a small cadre of folks on this board who I think are afraid of change or as they would put it afraid of losing the one thing about the Clippers that reflects a real NBA basketball team.
Another Son’s post is interesting not only because he asks some valid questions, but also because it suggests that he himself is not happy with what has recently happened. However, he doesn’t say that overtly, so it will be interesting to see how he responds to his own questions.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's kind of confusing trying to follow the logic of
some. I understand you take into account this and that – but then you evaluate based on wins and loses. That’s what I and everyone else does.
Well, most everyone else.
True but they would tell you
that given the unique individual that DTS is that we must move much more slowly than others because he can always just go back to what he was doing pre-MDSr. Which gave us no chance.
That’s the cunundrum, if you will. Constant relatively poor coaching with improvements in talent v. a revolving door. Neither option is all that great.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I was really hoping that another son would respond - oh well
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Hey Steve...
Thanks for moving this to the front page…I did not expect that. Writing the post was more cathartic than anything else, after such a dispiriting performance by the squad. It’s sad because all of us were hoping that they can continue to build on our modest success from earlier this season. Now our only goal is to salvage some dignity and guard against the corrosive selfishness of a broken team that can derail the careers of our young players.
Krai (MichaelCage!)
by MichaelCage on Feb 11, 2010 2:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Pride and professionalism are two adjectives that have never come to mind when following the Clippers.
Last night’s debacle was just a way to hammer that point home.
I've got nothing.
Spot on post, MichaelCage.
You do a great job summarizing what has happened over the first three games of the Kim Hughes era in a somewhat objective manner. Unfortunately, my views were affected by my anger (and myriad other emotions that I was subject to after going to the Utah game). It’s nice to read the views of someone who could take a step back and write what was needed after the embarrassment that was last night’s game.
As for the team, I really have no idea where they go from here. I have very little hope for this team now, or any time soon. Whatever positive momentum they generate is lost about as fast as they create it. Baron’s old. Eric’s taken a step back. Rasual can’t shoot. Chris doesn’t deserve to be an All-Star. Once again, this team needs major retooling, and I just don’t see that happening. Going through another lost season as a Clipper fan is really disheartening.
by WestsideBrandon on Feb 11, 2010 4:55 PM PST reply actions
Hubie
is 76, I’d think this group of Clippers would be too much for him at his age. Actually come to think of it, probably only the 05-06 Clippers would work.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 11, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
Good luck on gettin him out of Charlotte...
but then again, THIS IS Larry Brown we’re talking about here…the ultimate carpetbagger, albeit a very successful one. One thing you can trust for sure with Larry, he would demand roster changes instantenously…he’s done it recently in Philly, Detroit, New York, and Charlotte.
That said…I’ve talked “pride and professionalism” on other Clipper boards, and without a doubt, this team does lack it, and a lot more (accountability, passion, and heart). The team has to go 20-10 just to finish at .500 (41-41)…certainly conceivable given the talent, but with the way Hughes has been coaching (or not coaching), and given the players’ own desire (outside of a couple guys), I’m thinking they’ll go 10-20 instead. Record-wise, it would be an improvement (12 wins better than last year), but it’s unacceptable when you’re not making the playoffs. Frankly, the 2-6 Grammy road trip alone practically killed any chance of the Clippers making the playoffs. Even so, the Clips would have to beat out Memphis, NOLA, Houston, and Portland (the current 8th seed) to get into the 8th spot…as it stands, we’re 8 1/2 games out of the final spot.
I want to see Dunleavy be active again, and make a big move…get rid of garbage like Thornton, and whoever else is expendable.
Larry Brown
Rumor has it the Bobcats are being sold to a group that will replace Michael Jordan. Larry Brown has said if Michael goes, so does he. I’m thinking there is a good chance Brown is available after the Bobcats season ends (looks like they make the playoffs).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 12, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions

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