Poll: Trade-deadline options
by SilverClip on Feb 12, 2010 2:04 PM PST
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PrintOne of the best things I like about the Clipper's coaching change is that Dunleavy now gets to think full-time about the upcoming trade deadline.
I'm on the edge of my seat
anticipating
this February 18th
(7-5-7, inverted haiku)
There are three trade ideas (listed below) that I think are most worthy of our consideration, insofar as they are both advantageous and REALISTIC. There's also the option of doing little-to-nothing and using our cap space in the offseason. Let's put it to a vote, then.
Note: I have not included a trade for T-Mac here, as I haven't heard any chatter about it on other sites, plus I don't see why Houston would want to acquire so many of our expirings when they have a pretty good, single expiring already. But go ahead and write it in, if you think it (or anything else) is both better for us and at least somewhat alluring to the other team.
For that matter, go ahead and modify these proposals in any way you like, as long as it is still reasonable to both ball clubs and works on Trade Machine. ... Hey, I too would like to trade Chris Kaman for Dwight Howard, but crap, it's neither legal nor conceivable.
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Option E:
The John R trade of basically all of the expiring and Thornton for Caron Butler and Jamisosn.
Since I stole the idea from John R; I'll just paste the rationale he used
Camby/Collins/RDavis/Thornton/Smith for Jamison/Butler. I would give the Wizards the option to dump Crittenton for part of the Randolph trade exemption if they wanted to wash their hands of him too if that makes the trade happen. Throw in $3M to help the Wizards buy out or waive Stevenson, and they are pretty close to Gilbert Arenas and a clean slate next year. Or since it looks like Arenas is getting a felony, maybe an absolute clean slate.
No draft picks either way. The Clippers are allowing the Wizards a total reboot.
http://www.clipsnation.com/2010/1/14/1251337/top-25-players-most-likely-to-be#28855893
by Michael White on Feb 12, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Butler isn't a SG
well he might be able to pull it off but probably better at SF. Jamison is also not a SF anymore at his age, he’s always been more of a tweener. I think him and BG could be pretty interchangeable though. I prefer the 76ers deal as well.
The sad irony of this is if it was anyone else but FElton, I’d probably ask for him instead of Dalembert. I still think he could thrive in our system but he burned down that bridge along with our collective hearts a couple of summers ago.
I wonder how much FElton regrets it, he is now known for being grossly overpaid and hated by the local fan base. At least if he had stayed with us, I think we all would stick with him since he was a integral part of the greatest Clippers season ever and our standards are ridiculously low.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 12, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe
Does Washington want to completely reboot by giving up their ONE good citizen and still productive player for essentially nothing? Is anyone going to take Washington’s money? I highly doubt it. That team is a mess with Arenas and cap space when several other teams have cap space probably doesn’t mean that much. Who’s signing with Washington this summer?
The reports seem to indicate that they’re willing to let go of Butler, but they want a solid player with upside for Jamison. In fact, the Cleveland paper just reported exactly that and that’s why they want Hickson. I’m not sure if Thornton fits the bill but maybe he does.
lol it worked in the trade machine??
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfwvppo
I love how it makes it seem like we’re getting the worse half of the deal.
The trade machine loves Camby and Smith
as the driver is PER.
by Michael White on Feb 12, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
That one is probably unlikely
Jamison and Butler both play positions the Celtics are already set at (KG and Pierce). That plus the Wiz aren’t interested in just cap relief.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 13, 2010 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
Hmmm, I missed that one
Would it be more attractive to Washington than anything the Cavs have to offer?
LOL, what would the Wizards do with all those players?
Still, the trade would a whopper, wouldn’t it!
Possible modification to the CButler trade
CButler for AT, Sool, and (Smith or RDavis)
I don’t know Washington would do it, but this way we’d get to keep Camby
Haha Nice
I like how excited your are SC. I appreciate the enthusiasm for trades. I definitely agree that trades and free agent signings are some of the most exciting things related to hoops.
I voted for your the Iggy trade. As I mentioned in the other thread, Deng’s complacency is concerning and his game isn’t really that good of a fit with this team. We need a wing who can do at least 2 of 3 primary things: (1) guard the top wings in the league, (2) shoot from 3, and (3) run the lanes in a fast break system. Deng hasn’t shown the ability or interest to be a premier defender, and isn’t a particularly exceptional athlete or a particularly good 3 pt threat.
And btw, Iggy is essentially just over a year older than Deng. Deng was born April 1985 and Iggy was born January 84. So the age isn’t really much of a factor.
As for Butler, he’ll be 30 this year and I’m concerned his game is already starting to deteriorate. He hasn’t been very good this season.
Haha.. the ESPN Trade Machine is fun...
4 team trade——Clippers-Bobcats-Cavs-Wizards
Clippers get:
Gerald Wallace (Bobcats)
Anderson Varajao (Cavs)
[A VERY solid SF and an extremely good defensive & instinctive PF]
Bobcats get:
Al Thornton (Clippers)
Brendon Haywood (Wizards)
Mike Miller (Wizards)
[A strong defensive center that plays to their slow-it-down style better than Chandler
It seems like they get screwed, but Holinger gives them +1 wins for this trade]
Cavs get:
Antawn Jamison (Wizards)
Tyson Chandler (Bobcats)
Ricky Davis (Clippers)
[Stretch PF and a big who can finish off LeBron’s dishes; Championship maybe?]
Wizards get:
Marcus Camby (Clippers)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cavs)
Daniel Gibson (Cavs)
[20m expiring contracts and a replacement for Arenas]
.
.
.
Just kidding.
WOW!!!
I don’t have time at the moment to think this over. Nice work, though! Even if it’s ridiculous, it’s still amazing.
I dont know..
Prior to this season, the crackhead was pretty damn good! I think it’s a fairly even trade if Josh Howard can step up his production as he has done so in the past.
Dallas is better off for it
Change of scenery is a good thing, this did cost them a lot financially though but Cuban is willing to pay it so… I wish Cuban was the owner of the Clips.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 16, 2010 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
It's fun to dream...
Granted, I do realize this has a near impossible chance of happening, but it’s fun to think these trade scenarios out.
Clippers get:
Kenny Thomas
H. Armstrong
S. Rodriguez
Kings get:
Baron Davis
Al Thornton
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
I believe this gives the Clips cap space for two max contracts (or at least near max contracts) and the Kings can move Tyreke over to the two and ship Martin out for a defensive big man.
Of course this won’t happen, but, again…it’s fun to dream.
BTW, if you're in favor of Little-to-Nothing...
who are you going after, besides Lebron or JJ?
Have you considered “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”?
And have you thought carefully about what our bench would look like? Once we signed one of these guys to a max, we wouldn’t have any cap space left. At that point, too, we’d have renounced all our free agents. We’d end up with about the crappiest bench in the league.
I wouldn't worry about the bench
if we actually signed Lebron. The reason I vote for trade now is because I don’t think we are getting any of those guys anyway….
by Michael White on Feb 12, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Worrying about the bench is definitely putting the cart before the horse.
You can find a bench far easier than you can find a Lebron James. It’s not even a question. It’s kinda crazy to me that anyone would even think twice about signing Lebron. Any time you have a chance to sign the best basketball player on the planet, you do it. Whatever it takes. You worry about the rest later.
The people voting to do nothing don’t seem to realize though that doing nothing doesn’t give the team a shot at Lebron. We currently won’t have max cap space. The team HAS to do something. Even if it’s just finding a taker for Telfair or Thornton. Doing nothing is about the dumbest thing you can do.
i didn't vote doing nothing
i voted doing “little to nothing” which meant probably moving telfair
Why do you think Telfair
is going to sign with the team? I mean its a player option, but I just believe Telfair wouldn’t want to be with us anymore. I mean the guys production just dropped way below his usual stats. I somehow think Telfair isn’t happy with the way the team is ran, and he’ll just run out of town himself.
Because its 2.7 million
and given the economy and his production he’ll likely take the guaranteed money. He might be able to latch onto another team for the minimum but there isn’t much of a market for undersized point guards who can’t shoot and get in trouble off the court.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 16, 2010 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, true, the point about the bench should be very secondary
And doing nothing at all would be very counter-productive.
So let me rephrase:
If you are in favor of doing Little (namely, getting rid of AT and/or Telfair), then WHAT’S YOUR FALLBACK PLAN when neither Lebron nor JJ takes our offer?
The one most will mention is signing Rudy Gay, at probably something close to max. At this point, though, I have to bring up the bench again. Lebron with no bench is alright. Gay with no bench is something else entirely.
Which would you rather have: Iggy/Deng/CButler with a bench, or Gay without one?
Since neither Lebron nor JJ are really coming here, this is about how things boil down.
Agreed on Gay
I’m not a fan of giving Gay the max. With the new CBA coming, the only people who should get maxes are the guys with “All-NBA” on their resumes.
I’m in the camp that thinks they should go after Lebron. Again, it’s Lebron freaking James. You almost never have a chance to get the best player on the planet. When you have a shot, you go all-in. So maybe I should have voted for “little to nothing” though that’s now how I interpreted the option.
If they miss on Lebron, then you get creative with the cap space. For example, they can still trade for Iggy in the summer and absorb his contract with the cap space. It’s not all that different from trading an expiring contract for him now.
I’m ok though with trading for Iggy now. I think he’s in that class of SF that’s so good that it’s worth it. Caron Butler and the like are just below that level. I wouldn’t throw away a chance at Lebron for 30 yr. old Butler. I would probably do it for 27 year old Iggy.
Other than Iggy, I don’t see a trade worth making that takes up all our cap space. No Butler, no Prince, no Deng. Noone on that tier or lower.
If we strike out in free agency
we still have ALOT of options, much like how the Grizzlies were able to absorb ZBo’s contract, we could trade for a max player for essentially cap space. I’m sure we could take Rashard Lewis for instance off the Magic’s hand if they fail to win a championship (they have Ryan Anderson who does a lot of the same things for a much smaller price).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 12, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Or....
instead of wiffing on Lebron and taking on an over-paid over-rated player, we could get something for Camby now, say butler, who is only under contract til 2011, at which point Carmelo Anthony (ETO) and Kevin Durant (restricted), Tony Parker (unrestricted) are (or could be, as with Melo) all free agents. In the mean time we might actually be a competitive team next year.
I’m not particularly high on Iguodala or Deng. I like both players but I don’t love them. That being said Neither of their contracts are crippling and they both would certainly help us (although 5 years is a long time, something I keep telling myself when assessing what players I would like to see sign with us). If the contract is not outrageous I would rather have gay than Iggy or Deng. Lebron ain’t happening.
As I am writing this it looks like Butler is headed to Dallas. Woe is me.
I'd go along with this
I’m a little higher on Deng than you are, but a chance at Lebron probably outweighs any CButler deal we might be able to swing.
The creative trade opportunities in the offseason are the wild card here. I don’t know how to judge those. It seems more likely, though, that we’d be able to swing a deal with Philly right now, given that our expirings are in play right now. In the offseason we’d have to work harder to make a deal work. Moreover, if we pulled off the sort of trade that ClipperChuck suggests here, we’d be back to the bench issue. Once we pick up a good player with a large contract, then we’ve filled up our cap space and can’t sign a bench. I’d only want to do that if the player were someone like Lebron.
ClipperChuck
Trade machine fun
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykavjpf
Sure a any deal involving 9 players most likely won’t happen, but why not. I think it works for both teams.
The Bulls unload a ton of cap space and can now offer max contracts to two players.
We get a SF that’s cheaper in the long run than Igoudala and a combo guard that would be perfect to back up both Baron and Gordon. Hinrich’s contracts is also declining so it doesn’t hurt as bad down the road. Not sure Tyrus would resign with us, but we could move him somewhere else or just cut him and someone else out making the deal easier.
The main thing about making a deal now is so we stay at the cap and retain the rights to any of our other free agents. This allows us to resign them and keep whatever depth we have. Dropping below the cap to sign someone like Gay means we renounce the rights to our guys and we lose the rights to sign them to more than the veterans minimum. Our bench would then be worse than now and we all should know buy now how badly we need depth.
Trade machine frustration
For whatever reason, my computer is incompatible with Trade machine. Would somebody please tell me what Hooch20’s proposal is? He often has good ideas.
Here ya go
Camby, Collins, Ricky, Skinner, Telfair, and Rasual for Deng, Hinrich, and Tyrus Thomas.
Most likely to many players, but it can easily be made to a simpler 4 for 2 deal. Tyrus most likely won’t be back and we may not want his attitude.
Thanks! Two concerns here...
First, there’s a restriction in Skinner’s contract. He’d have to agree to the trade, and once he did, he’d lose his Bird rights. I think that might actually be a deal breaker. We’d have to put DJ in his place, probably.
Second, oh man, I don’t think I’d want to give Chicago the cap-space. They’ve been trying to get rid of Hinrich, as you probably know. I think they’d jump at this trade in a second. Are you willing to take a chance on their ascendency?
They can have the space
I don’t think much is going to happen this off-season and they’re in the east. Let them have the space and we’ll take their talent.
Agreed, we'd have some good talent then
I wonder if we could squeeze a pick out of them, considering their aspirations. If we had to give them DJ instead of Skinner, I’d want to insist on it.
Hey, according to RealGM Trade Checker
we don’t need to throw in Skinner in the first place. So it’s now an eight-man deal. For the fun of it, I put it up in the poll as a latecomer. Hope that’s cool… let me know and I’ll delete it.
How's this for crazy
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf7ypx8
Gives Toronto some talent and we can rent Bosh for a half a year to see if he fits.
If it doesn’t work, we get cap space and free up minutes for Griffin
Damn Trade machine
I’d like to check it out, but I can’t get your link. Can you write it out here?
Kaman + Thornton + Ricky for Bosh
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Feb 12, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
Raptors won't go for it
They could get much more than Kaman and a mediocre SF for Bosh. Plus the Raptors are playing well now and are confident they can resign him.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 12, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Raptors should get much more
But won’t. They backed themselves into a corner by not signing him earlier. He’s not going to go back to Toronto unless the cap is cut back sooooo egrigiously that he would lose a ton of money by leaving Toronto.
There was talk of him going to the Lakers for Bynum. This is a more attractive package.
Deng
That’s the trade that makes the most sense to me. To be able to get Deng and Tyrus would be a success.
by DonaldSterlingSucks on Feb 12, 2010 9:16 PM PST reply actions
Which would you rather have though between Deng and Iggy?
The Bulls can get more for Tyrus in a separate deal, like 8 teams are interested him.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 12, 2010 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
Think about blake
I dont understand why everybody wants to trade the whole bench.Our biggest trade piece is an all star.It all comes back to the system were going to run.If our gm is as smart as he thinks he is.He will look to the future not right now (the future being blake )Our current center will hamper the progress of our future star.We trade him for a sf sg that’s not from the wizards.Were not getting lebron,wade,jj,gay or any other top tier fa.Money or no money i hope i eat crow but the odds are slim to none of us getting any one of those guys.Were going to be in the lottery i hope and pray we get the guy from ohio st if not we can take a big to replace Kaman somebody who will rebound and play d.An al hortford type of guy and sign a vetran like manu or 3rd tier free agent.So if we trade kaman for iggy or deng or anybody else.That’s gets the job done at one of those postion were good.Let the ping pong balls fall in the right place again and will be a playoff team in a year or two.Cause no center should ever be taken jump shots unless your hof
Ilgauskas?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Feb 13, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Technical question
Instead of including DJ in the proposed trade for Iggy, can we offer a draft pick instead? Would that take care of the $-balance requirement? Someone on Clipper Blog was suggesting this, which is an intriguing idea.
How about just getting more cap space
trade Camby for Etan Thomas and one of OKC’s first round picks. Hat Tip to KA.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
Yeah, not bad
It wouldn’t give us more cap space, though. In fact, the extra pick (if this year’s) would eat up a bit of it. An extra pick would be nice, though, if Iggy or others prove out of reach.
KA points out that the poll results here come out in favor of “Little-to-nothing.” I look at it differently, though: About 30% favor this, whereas 70% are in favor of making a trade of some sort.
I would push us to make a bigger move, if at all possible.
Hmmm...
Now that CButler is out, I’m curious where all of those votes would go now?
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
I really like the Iggy and Dalembert trade
I would take DJ out of that trade though. And since we’re trading away AT, Butler, and RDavis, we’re gonna need a SF to back up Iggy. Mo Almonds anyone?
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