The Hats in the Ring
There will be lots more time for this in the summer, but here's a very quick overview of the competitors in the 2010 Free Agency Derby. The usual disclaimers apply: I may be missing someone, things could change, math is hard, your mileage may vary, consult your doctor if you have an erection lasting more than four hours.... but my back of the envelope calculations give me something like this:
- Miami - $40M+
- New York - $33M
- New Jersey - $28M
- Washington - $25M
- Chicago - $22M
- Sacramento - $20M
- Minnesota - $19M
- Clippers - $17M
- OKC - $14M
The mega superstar threshold is $16.6M. That is, a 5% raise over LeBron James / Dwyane Wade / Chris Bosh's current $15.8M salary. Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce could be paid more (or rather they are allowed more under the CBA) - but they won't get it. Bosh may or may not get $16.6M - I wouldn't pay him that, but with so many teams having so much money, I won't be surprised if he does get it. These guys are obviously allowed to sign for less - but I fully expect LBJ and DWade to get the full maximum.
So there are eight teams who can offer a super mega star contract this summer. I've included Oklahoma City on the list above because (a) their name has been bandied about and (b) they could make a move to get into max range.
Let's look at several broad considerations, using a fairly tenuous vacation analogy.
- Package deal destinations - aka Couples resorts: New York and Miami can both afford to offer maximum deals to two marquee players. It could involve any number of permutations of course, but the most likely would be Wade / James or Wade / Bosh in Miami, or James / Wade or James / Bosh in New York.
- Media Markets, aka I want to see a show: New York, LA and Chicago are the three largest cities in the US, and the three largest cities represented above by quite a margin. That means four teams - Knicks, Nets, Clippers and Bulls.
- Nightlife, aka I want to go dancing: Add Miami to the list of big cities above.
- Weather, aka I want to lie on the beach: Miami and LA.
- Taxes, aka where can I find the best deals?: Miami.
- Team strength, aka who else will be there when I get there? Matter of opinion.
- Intangibles, aka where are all the cool kids going? Matter of opinion.
Remember that the player's current team is always a strong possibility to re-sign him, and that there are certain built-in advantages for them to do so. So even though neither Cleveland nor Toronto are on the list, LeBron and Bosh could of course end up staying put, and in fact are probably more likely to do that than any single other option.
I'm going to take Sacramento, Washington and Minnesota off the table straightaway. I can't think of a single compelling reason that any significant player would leave their current team for one of them (apologies to those teams/cities). Likewise I'm taking Oklahoma City out of the discussion. Although they have the best young core of the teams listed, they also play in the least attractive market in the league - if LeBron feels Cleveland is too confining of his outsize personality, Oklahoma is not the answer.
I realize that many will dismiss the Clippers in a similarly off-handed manner. That's fine, and they may be right. The intangibles are terrible for the Clippers, and maybe it precludes them as a desitination. But intangibles are hard to measure because you can't tange them.
We don't know how important taxes, weather, and the market actually are to these guys, but we can reasonably conclude that the combination of weather, glitz and media makes the LA market a desirable destination.
We can look at the rosters of the remaining contenders.
New York has stripped their team to the floor boards - in terms of players of interest, they've got Danilo Gallinari and... and... OK, they've got Danilo Gallinari. So they are offering a two player package, a big market, and no help at all. To compound matters, they've also traded away a whole bunch of draft picks - I honestly have forgotten how many, but I think it's two gone, and one that can be swapped with Houston. So the idea of starting with LeBron and Bosh and then building through the draft is a non-starter. They have to hope that LeBron and Bosh and Gallinari and a bunch of minimum guys is enough. By the way, it's not clear that the Knicks will have enough cap space for two full maximum offers. My head is spinning from all the trades, and I'm not certain whose actually on their team next season, not to mention that the final cap number is an unknown. But Donny Walsh's goal was to get down to a level where he'd have the money to make two max offers, and he certainly got close.
The Nets have the worst record in the NBA and are on pace to set the all time record for fewest wins in a season. They have enough space to sign a star and another nice player, and they do have a former all star at the point guard and a potential all star at center. But one has to suspect that their terrible performance this year has spooked the big boys. Someone will no doubt take the Nets' money - but I don't see New Jersey being anyone's first choice, and LeBron gets first choice.
Miami is a lot like New York, except that Wade is there already. Wade will only stay if another mega-star joins him in south beach - and even that might not be enough. Beyond the cap space, the Heat have Michael Beasley signed. No one else is of any interest at all. But at least the Heat have their draft picks, unlike the Knicks.
Chicago will target favorite son DWade. They could put him on the court with Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and Joakim Noah. That's a pretty attractive choice, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Bulls end up with Wade. Chicago is a good destination, but seems like a better fit for Wade than the others.
Of the teams on the list, you can argue that the Clippers have the best in tact core. They have a former All Star at the point guard, a current All Star at center, a rising 21 year old talent at shooting guard, and last year's consensus number one overall pick at power forward, also 21. A star small forward joining that team would slot right into arguably the best starting lineup in the NBA. If LeBron wants out of Cleveland, and wants to win right away, the Clippers may be his best choice.
As I said, there's a lot more time to think about all of this. But this is my first impression of the field.
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4 hours?
why call a Doc? Break out the little black book!
Looks like Dunleavy can unload BDiddy to many teams. Or maybe send Kaman packing.
I said ship Kaman
Now people want to think about shipping Kaman out.We need to find a coach if they have figured out that were throwing in the towel.We need a real coach so i hope they have started looking because hughes is not the answer.
Well on paper it looks alright
But the more I look at the data, the less likely I think that any of these guys are going to come here:
Dwayne might leave the Heat, but he’s not going to do it with Eric Gordon and Baron in the back court and expect to be the missing puzzle piece to our equation. Bosh could join the Clippers, but where does he fit in with Griffin, Kaman, Deandre? I guess Griffin could play the three and be out there at the same time but I’m skeptical. If Bosh is leaving Toronto, he’s doing it for New York or Miami, where the talent would be greater.
That leaves Lebron. Lebron has too much pride to join “Wade’s Team.” Nothing about the guy speaks “I’m going to jump on this here bandwagon with an already identified superstar on the team.” That leaves New York and Los Angeles. If he joins New York, they have the possibility of signing another top FA (Bosh, Wade, Amare). There he could build up a new team with no identity. Or he could leave for the Clippers, who can’t sign another top FA and who have an unclear amount of talent on their team (As much as I think Griffin is going to be a perennial force in the league he is, for all intents and purposes, completely unproven).
However, Lebron knows how much he means to the Cavs, and even if they don’t win a title this year, I’m pretty confident he’s going to stay regardless. His name, his likeness, his brand: everything would take a hit if he left, and by golly him and his 100-person media team knows what it would mean to stay with the Cavs. Plus, he never struck me as a guy that took the easy road.
Where does that leave us?
I have no idea.
Joe Johnson
Steve didn’t mention Joe, which I’m not sure why not. Rumor has it that he should be offered close to, if not exactly, the max. Joe makes an adequate SF and SG, and blending in with Gordon, Baron, & Blake shouldn’t be a problem. The only other problem that I have heard was that Joe Johnson would prefer not to come back to the West. Then again, this was the same report that reported Camby being unhappy with being with the Clippers, and most articles that I have read about Camby has stated that he wanted to stay.
Joe definitely needs to be considered
the chief concern with him is he’s turning 29 in June so while he’ll be fine for the first few years, he’ll slow down on the back end of the deal. He’s a good shooter though and guys like Paul Pierce and Ray Allen have aged pretty well so that’s encouraging.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Man I'd love to have Ray Allen
especially how he did well against the Lakers today. But as always, the position issues become an issue and it puts us at odds with Eric Gordon. While Baron is out, maybe its time for Kim Hughes to experiement a little with Eric Gordon at the point. I mean as Steve puts it, its AYSO mode now, so now let’s play with the roster a bit. Understandably, I’m expecting high turnover numbers for Gordon, but that’s the part of learning for the young man.
For Joe Johnson, I think a good 3-4 year contract is enough to satisfy the guys needs, no?
EJ can't play point
His ball handling still needs a lot of work. He also isn’t a very good passer. I hope he spends all summer just working on his ball handling, he still gets stripped too much in traffic.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
+1
This is one of the things I’d like to see EJ improve upon this offseason. Really doesn’t matter if we’d like to see him play point some day. He HAS to get better at holding onto the ball in traffic… this is very important if he’s ever going to reach his true potential as a slasher/scorer, IMO
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
Yep
I heard he really worked hard last summer on his post up game… which doesn’t make much sense since he’s small for a SG to begin with and he has a low release point on his shot.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:25 AM PST up reply actions
and
I haven’t seen much (any) post ups by him this season. I don’t know why that would be his focus. Seems a little silly.
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
gordon's great rookie year
i think gordon just had one of those rookie seasons where it seemed like everything he did was right. he made passes, played a little point, made 3s , he seemed like a complete package. it wasn’t until this season we saw some of his weaker points. i hope he works hard this summer and improve his ball handling and passing.
by zac4president on Feb 19, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
Well put
I felt the same way last year. That for the most part, every time he touched the ball, something good happened. I always felt a little comfort when the ball was swung his way.
Now, he’s just as bad as everyone else. Makes me wonder if the rest of the team is “infecting” him.
Wasn't saying that Gordon is a good handler
or even a good passer. But we all already know about Gordon’s height. I find it a bit annoying and at times it hinders Gordons ability a bit. Gordon is a natural scorer.. a very timid scorer. All Star game proved it. Demanding the ball is just not in Gordon’s nature.. yet. But now that our season is practically over, shouldn’t it be time to experiement?
Gordon has said he played point in high school. Now I’m not saying he’s going to be good at it, but the kids got to learn somehow. Since this season is apparnetly unsavable already, maybe Gordon can learn a thing or two in the process. Gordon can learn to run the ball a bit, learn to pass better, improve his court vision, polish his driving skills, and at the same time make better decisions. Who knows, this might also imrpove Gordon’s leadership ability, and if we move Gordon back to sg, he might start demanding the ball a bit more.
I'd settle
for the team running more Isolation type players for him. He really gets his points in transition or when the ball swings around to him. He should also work on catch and shoot like Rip Hamilton, Ray Allen and Reggie Miller mastered, it would really help him get better looks for that gorgeous jumper of his.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:33 AM PST up reply actions
We're going to need the right coach to do that
and Dunleavy and Hughes is probably not the right coach. If Hughes wants to run that free flow system, Then its going to take Kaman to set a pick from the inside for Gordon to get free to the corner.
But I disagree a bit with Gordon needing to improve on his catch and shoot. I mean, your right that he needs to, but Gordon is already good at it, especially at the age of 21. Since Gordon can get to the rim, I think he needs to learn how get there efficiently 90+% of the time rather than getting stripped. But if you were saying that Gordon should learn from RIP on running his routes, I totally agree! But part of that would come from having a good coach and a player capable of setting a decent pick to help Gordon get free. At one point, it seemed like Marcus Camby could set picks well, but he’s gone. I hate watching Kaman set picks, but Craig Smith seems like a servicable suitor as his wide frame seems capable of doing so.
Either way, I want to see Gordon improve his overall game. I already think Gordon is efficiently enough at shooting, so I just think that his overall game needs a bit more polishing.
Oh and another thing
I want to see Gordon improve on is him finishing after getting fouled. I’ve seen a few baskets that look like they should’ve/ could’ve gone in and the always come out. OH and his ft shooting. How did that happen?
Catch and Shoot
He is fine at spotting up and receiving a pass and then shooting but he isn’t very good at catching a pass coming off a screen with his body weight shifting and then re-squaring his body towards the rim. That takes practice but if you master that shot you’ll be unstoppable and that would help negate his height disadvantage. Watch clips of Reggie Miller and see how he has to contort his body yet still able to square up towards the basket.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:52 AM PST up reply actions
And the sad thing is
that’s practically all Miller did. Shoot, shoot and shoot with occasional driving. Millers a good (and GREAT Shooter) sg, but he’s never won a championship. Gordon has the ability to drive and he should use that to his advantage.
I wouldn't that against him
a lot of stars from that era never won a championship. Heck during his prime years the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Bulls again, then Spurs and Lakers won all the championships. Unless you played for one of those 5 franchises you were shut out. Almost half the Dream Team never even won one (Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley and Laettner), and Clyde Drexler and David Robinson only got one late in their careers when they weren’t even the main guy on their teams. Add in guys like Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Dominique Wilkins and the list of guys who never won a ring during this era is really long.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 2:07 AM PST up reply actions
Right
and I guess I shouldn’t have made that sound like the core of my argument. I guess what I was meaning to say is that Gordon has the ability to shoot, and some. He gets the rim better than Miller. Because this is a new era, JUST shooting as a sg at 6’3 doesn’t get you too far in this decade. Maybe Anthony Morrow, but then again, “who dat?”
I like EJ
but he can’t even hold Reggie Miller’s jockstrap at this point in his career. Reggie was one of the best players ever under pressure (watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtPaMgyz4ec). Miller was also a master of drawing fouls using his pump fake and once he got there he was automatic. To even imply he couldn’t hang with this generation is a joke, he was still a good player even his his 30s.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 2:31 AM PST up reply actions
I like EJ, too
I have to add some needed perspective. Let’s evaluate Gordon to Miller when Gordon retires in 10-15 years. Right now Gordon is the better player IF you compare him to Reggie Miller at 21 years old. Reggie was still playing at UCLA! Reggie’s first year with the Pacers, when he was 22, he averaged 10.0 points per game. So, don’t compare Gordon to Miller. It’s unfair to both players.
To be fair,
he is 21. And this is only his second year in the league after playing one year in college. He has more than enough time to improve.
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
Of course
but as the season goes, it seems like we’re not playing to win anymore. If we were, we wouldn’t be giving up on plays and we’d still probably have Marcus Camby and Al Thornton.
I rather have us wreck this season then the next.
I'd rather have him focus on things he'll use most
He’s never going to be a natural point, its best if he just focuses on the things he’ll need to be good at to have a great career. He still gets most of his shots in transition or being passed to on the weak side. I rather have him become a great SG with below average point guard skills than being a very good SG with average point guard skills.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:49 AM PST up reply actions
Good point
but part of becoming a great polished game. Running around and getting free doesn’t make you a great sg, just a great shooter.
And who’s to say Gordon can’t run through picks while playing point?
Well the point guard sets the table
so if they are setting up the offense (they have the ball) then he very well can’t be running around screens. He should work on his ball handling regardless but that is not something he will improve on that much during the game. That is just old school boring drills day in and day out. Running behind screens, back screens etc during a live game can be helpful though.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:56 AM PST up reply actions
Which reminds me
the Clippers should try to hire Reggie Miller over the summer to teach him these tricks. Go crash the Calabasas gym that Reggie works out at!
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:57 AM PST up reply actions
Right
but its not about what you learn, its how you apply it. I’m sure Thornton was taught MANY MANY differnet drills during practice, but it never showed in games. That’s why we need to give Gordon some time in undertand the usage of these drills and to learn that drills are differnent than real game.
As for the pg setting the plays, Gordon can always pass the ball up, run through screens and get open to get a catch and shoot. shrugs, just saying. We don’t have to live on this traditional pg runs the paint, and traditional centers have to be 7 feet. Dunleavy era is officially over! Cheers
Ball handling
takes practice. Lots of it, just like shooting. Its basically just muscle memory. Him dribbling for 48 minutes 30 more times this year doesn’t really do anything. EJ needs to learn how to play off the ball more so he can get more looks. Right now he takes high percentage shots but too many of them rely on someone else setting him up.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 2:11 AM PST up reply actions
No,
but learning leadership and court vision is something that is learned. He can’t really learn court vision is doing drills all the time, as practice is differnet from game time. What’s the use of Gordon leading in practice, but incapable of leading in games?
You can make a case that Baron is the currently leader, but since we’re already building for tommorow, might as well play for tommorow also?
Um
leadership is earned. It isn’t something we just pick out of a hat. I don’t know if EJ has it in him to be a leader since he’s so quiet but this is something he ultimately needs to figure out himself (obviously we should encourage him along the way).
I don’t think court vision is something that is truly learned. Studying film, recognizing what the defense is doing helps you improve your court vision but some people are able to break this down better than others.
I just looked up the stats, EJ is averaging a meager 2.8 assists this year and 2.2 turnovers. That’s awful for a shooting guard (1.27 Assist/Turnover ratio). That has to be one of the worst ratios of any guard in the league.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 2:25 AM PST up reply actions
Of course he will improve
he’s just very far away from even being a passable PG. I would rather have him focus on getting better shooting off the dribble and a jab step so he can be one of those players every team really needs. I actually hate those shots if they are taken early in the possession but its also absolutely necessary to be able to take and make them if you end up with the ball with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:47 AM PST up reply actions
LeBron James will probably consider the Cleveland Cavaliers, New York Knicks and Brooklyn Nets BEFORE considering the Los Angeles Clippers
The Cavs
I can totally understand. But why the Knicks and the Nets before the Clips? Both of those teams are going to be AWFUL for a least two years.
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
Both teams have a ton of cap space and could possibly sign two FA or trade for a player to improve themselves.
...
IMO
Wade + LBJ + Gallinari + NOBODY < Clippers + Wade or LBJ
The Nets… well… the Nets are just plain terrible.
I’m not saying one of the above scenarios wont happen. Just don’t see why the Clips aren’t considered along side them.
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
The single greatest deciding factor...
for King James will be HC…if we can somehow manage to hire a coach that LBJ respects and wants to play for…someone with winning pedegree…I think we have a chance.
That said, our GM will probably want a puppet so I’d say our odds of getting LBJ here are 1/100 now. If Dun does somehow bring in LBJ however, he’d instantly be the best GM in Clips history and I think he knows it…we’ll see which side of him prevails: egomaniac or conrol freak – I hope its egomaniac
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
I think LBJ prefers a puppet
…as long as he is the puppet-master. He essentially “chose” Mike Brown, and for the most part, it’s LeBron, not Mike Brown, that controls the Cavs.
MDsr is the greatest GM we've ever had...
Not that it means much, Elgin Baylor was our GM from 1986 to 2008 so the competition was pretty sparse.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
I say just let LeBron be the coach
like the old player-coach days.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Ha ha, tange this-
Wade to Chicago, LBJ to Cleveland or LA, Bosh to some other place, and NY gets screwwwwwed.
Lebron is too self-assured and strong to care about most of the Clips’ negative intangibles (the curse, lingering image problems, etc). DTS is probably a strike against us, but after that, I’d just disregard all those sportscaster naysayers.
It’s a long shot, but do you still put it at a million to one, SP?
He probably stays in Cleveland...
He’s LeBron James. He makes his own media market – wherever he goes, it’s a media market. Cleveland is home, they have a chance to win a title this season, they have a chance to win a title next season, he’s loyal, etc, etc, etc.
But if he goes anywhere else, LA is the most likely.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 18, 2010 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite one in a million
more like 1 in 20. If the Cavs win it all, no way he leaves. If they lose in the Finals, let’s say there is a 80% chance he stays. If they lose in the Conference Finals or Semi-Finals 60% chance of staying. The Cavs have tried extraordinarily hard to add players this year to keep him happy but LBJ does realize if they can’t get it done this year then the road only gets tougher (Shaq, Big Z, Jamison, Parker are all in their mid-late 30s now) while the Hawks and Magic are pretty young and should get better.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
Although...
perhaps if the Cavs win this year LeBron feels less guilty about leaving. Know what I mean? He could at least say he gave Cleveland it’s first sports championship in decades.
But who knows? I don’t even think he does.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Who leaves a championship team?
When their team is offering the max amount of money and years? Aside from the Bulls (and this was management’s doing) the star player always comes back to his team (lest he retires).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
Not saying he would...
but if he is looking purely at the future, the Cavs have some issues down the road.
Just an “on the other hand”.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
They do
of course they also have tons of expiring deals in the future to that they can trade for more talent. You don’t need to surround Lebron with that much talent to be a contender. They got Mo Williams for a 2nd round pick, Shaq for expirings, Varejao was a trade throw in, Parker was a FA, so was Jamario Moon, Big Z has been there forever. Most of their guys are pretty interchangeable.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
True
LeBron and whatever could still contend. He is amazing.
43 points, 15 assists, 10 rebs tonight. But they lost. Off-balance game winner rimmed out.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Yep
He’s not the pure scorer that Melo or Kobe are though but he’s definitely the best overall playmaker. With only a couple of seconds left on the clock though there are a few guys better than him at getting off the game-winning attempt.
His stat line was even better than that. In addition to 43 points, 15 assists, 13 rebounds he also had 2 steals and 4 blocks. He’s a fantasy basketball owners wet dream.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
Not a pure scorer?
or do you mean not a pure shooter? I find him a very pure scorer, just that he looks to pass first. I mean he does average almost 30 ppg…
He has better shot selection
He doesn’t have a crazy off balanced fadeaway like Kobe or the jab step that Melo used today. He can definitely score of course but his scoring comes more from the flow of the game, using screens, using passing angles that free up space. You know Kobe is going to be able to get off some crazy looking jump shot but you also know he’ll actually hit that crazy jump shot sometimes.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
But because he doesn't have
a crazy fade away (which I disagree a bit on) doesn’t really mean that LBJ isn’t a pure scorer. My definition of scorer is practically anybody that can put the ball in the hoop effectivly and efficiently. Adding pure means that he can do it naturally, and LBJ seems like he can naturally get to the rim. At the same time, LBJ kinda torched us bad in that first quarter…
Todays ending was a pure example of what I meant
Melo caught the ball where he wanted, stared Lebron down and did a jab step to create enough space to nail the jumper. It was good defense by Lebron (he should have done more to deny Melo the ball, especially letting him pick his spot) but Melo made it easily. It was a shot Lebron could make, but less often than someone like Kobe or Melo would make.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 2:16 AM PST up reply actions
Never say never
Kareem left after winning a championship.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
by bestclipfan on Feb 18, 2010 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
No he didn't
He retired after the Lakers got swept by the Pistons in the finals. When he left the Bucks it had been 3-4 years after they won a championship. Maybe I should clarify then, no star has ever left after just winning the championship (aside from Jordan who retired).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
Best player of course
and Ariza was definitely not a star on that team. He was only the 4th or 5th best player on that team (Kobe, Gasol and Odom were obviously better).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
ok my bad must have had some misinformation
but still if any star was going to leave after winning it would be Lebron.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
I assumed you meant Milwaukee
Kareem won a championship there before going to the Lakers. Of course, that was a trade, so it’s a different situation.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 19, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions
Wasn't he traded a few years later?
I looked it up on wiki and it says he won the championship in 1971… and he didn’t start playing for the Lakers until 1975. Those years were also different as professional leagues didn’t have salary caps and lots of financially strapped franchises literally sold players (Babe Ruth to the Yankees being the most notorious example) to keep the franchise afloat.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
doubtful
Knicks- They have the Garden it’s there building and players go to war every night in that building to make a name for themselves and Lebron can make a huge name for himself in the building.
Nets- BK is on the radar and a young high spending owner hsd the team with one of his best friends and buisness partner Jay-Z to build the way. Not to mention the fact that the Nets are a younfg team that is going through a rough time but you have long-term the two most important and spots in the league covered in PG and C with Harris and Brook Lopez..
Miami-South Beach enough said. If not you know when it is time next season the mastermind Pat Riley will return and run the helm. If the team has Dwayne Wade adding another piece with the strong potential of a progressing Beasley things will look up.
Now for the Clippers for one as soon as you get here you are the B team until proven otherwise. If you are looking for a ring which most the max guys are you have to be patient with the return of Blake Griffin to see how well he will produce at the NBA level. Also you have to worry about the injury issuesregarding your teammates can Baron Davis and Chris Kaman stay healthy for majority of the season and most importantly key games of the season. Does Lebron trust GM Mike Dunleavy to put the best team around him to that note to whoever the new coach is can he earn the respect of Lebron James.
Clippers have a lot of work to do before they can even think about throwing a deal at Lebron or any respectable free agent. In truth every issue Steve listed for the other teams we have ourselves. Had quite the laugh at the part regarding the Nets performance so yeah back to back seasons when a team doesn’t look like it can crack 30 wins is attractive.
My thoughts
Knicks – Possible as LBJ and Bosh with Gallinari and a bunch of scrubs could win a title. They will go out of the way to sign FAs with their exceptions in the future. Plus the next CBA will probably end up favoring big market teams like the Knicks (they are getting rid of the luxury tax I’ve read).
Nets – The new arena is still a few years away and the team’s record should scare any free agent. They are also the red headed stepchild team in the area (a feeling we are all too familiar with).
Miami – I doubt either Wade or Lebron want to play together. It would hurt both their legacies and stunt both their stats. There would also be potential conflicts as two guys used to being the top dog have to share the role.
Clippers – We will give him whatever he wants. He wants your sister, then you better buy your sister that fancy new black cocktail dress, we will even roofie her for you! She’s married? No worries we will fix that. He wants to player-coach? Done! He wants his own crew of Clipper Spirit follow him around LA, done on the Don’s dime. He wants to purposefully run over DTS when he’s sitting at halfcourt, that’s actually encouraged by Clipper Nation. Lebron only want even numbers of fries served at the Staples Center, I’ll count those bad boys myself! He wants to drive around LA in the carpool lane even when alone, no worries we will pick up the citations. We will even give him the key to the city…nay the castle if he comes. Want to determine the outcome of American Idol, I will rig the contest if I have to! If someone associated with Lebron is reading this, please pass this on. Long live the King!!!
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 12:52 AM PST up reply actions
"former all star point guard and current all star center"
that made me chuckle…
it's a factual statement
you can’t deny it.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 18, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
BD was actually playing at a near All-star level earlier in the year
hard as it is to believe based off the last dozen or so games.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
We should sell him on BGriff and EJ
but both Baron and Kaman are good players as well. We just don’t have any true stars (Blake Griffin could change that), thus none of our guys can really carry us and we need everyone to pitch in.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 12:54 AM PST up reply actions
hey if we cant sign LBJ
we should sign Rudy at 8mill per to play offense,,,, id give him a max contract if he played D also haha
I dunno,,,,,, they have Ronnie Brewer now to fill the void, plus they have ZBo who will need to resign after next season.
Chris Wallace cant spend because nobody goes to Grizzly games
I would say the Brewer trade
means Gay is likely gone. Looking at their roster that might not too big of a issue, Mayo and Zbo love to shoot and Gasol gets more shots as well.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
I would say Gay for 10 million just to be safe
and we could always do a sign and trade if we don’t want to risk them matching.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
by bestclipfan on Feb 18, 2010 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
He'll get at least 10 million
Here’s a list of recent 18+ppg scorers playing SG or SF who made around 10 million per year some way more. I left out this years free agents and a few like Brandon Roy.
Jamal Crawford, Josh Howard, Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, Luol Deng, Jason Terry, Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, Monta Ellis, Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Michael Redd, Richard Jefferson, Peja Stojakovic, Larry Hughes, Al Harrington, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson, Kevin Martin, Hedo Turkoglu, Andrei Kirilenko.
The amazing part is almost everyone on the list was traded after signing the deal or extension (not a good thing right?). The ones who haven’t have been mentioned in numerous trade rumors. So yea, definitely caveat emptor is in play when signing expensive SG/SF.
If we strike out on Lebron, we are probably better off going after two mid range guys (Josh Childress definitely appeals) to fill out the roster and pray that the Mythical Griffin can lead us to glory.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
So you're saying...
He will get paid, but he shouldn’t get paid. So let’s not be that team, right?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 19, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Let's Please NOT be that team!!!!
I read someone describe Rudy Gay as Al Thornton with a green light to shoot. I couldn’t agree more.
Rudy Gay is better at every aspect of the game (and younger) than Thornton. Better scorer, better passer, better rebounder and better defender.
I wouldn’t go nuts giving him a ton of money either, but I’m confused people assume Gay is comparable to Thornton.
by Michael White on Feb 19, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Gay is much better
Not worth the 8-10 million better you’d have dish out though (though Thornton might be worth the MLE range if he has a good year next year)
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I'll make the recommendation
again to take a look at the post John R. threw up that compare’s Gay’s numbers to Thornton’s. On paper, Rudy Gay really is just Thornton with more FG attempts.
Check it out.
http://www.clipsnation.com/2010/2/18/1317039/2009-2010-al-thornton-vs-rudy-gay
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
I already did
And I already posted on it.
by Michael White on Feb 19, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
John R's post can be interpreted a few different ways
One could be that AT and Gay are about the same player
One is that Gay is just a little better than AT at almost everything
One is that PER must be overrated, since Gay’s stats don’t justify having a rating 5.1 points above AT’s
And finally, one is that stats just don’t capture everything. They’re often helpful, but they are not exhaustive.
AT has a low basketball IQ. I can’t tell you what that means exactly, but I know it when I see it. Gay, on the other hand, is clearly not so afflicted. Just watch him play.
I’d argue for this last general point, without throwing anything else into the Gay discussion. We seem to largely agree that Gay isn’t worth the big contract.
Well
we also need to take into consideration that Gay plays on a more talented team thus he loses out on some opportunities (he dipped last year once Mayo and Gasol arrived and has progressed this year even though ZBo was acquired). He’s also younger (23) so you can expect him to still get better.
Is he worth 12 million… no not really. If we were a championship contender I could see use overpaying him but I think if we acquired him (and assuming he does not improve at all anymore) then we’d be just a low seed playoff team. Yes, we’d be pretty much the current Memphis Grizzlies. I mean look at our lineups…
EJ about the same as Mayo
Baron better than Conley
Kaman about even to Gasol
Blake Griffin less than ZBo
So yea, adding Gay would probably make us a low seed playoff team assuming EJ and Blake improve, Kaman stays about the same and Baron doesn’t age too greatly. I think we should go after a glue guy like Childress (who has a similar PER to Gay) and add a couple of decent FAs to fill out the bench if we can’t land the King.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
I'm on board
Or someone like Childress, a good glue guy who isn’t too expensive (aka Mike Miller).
Part of what I like about it is that we could then resign some of our bench and keep our draft pick. A middle step, if you will. One of our picks could very well amount to something. We don’t have to go for everything all at once.
I agree, too: If we get impatient and invest too eagerly in the next best thing, then we’ll likely get locked into a merely decent mediocrity.
I'd be okay with Miller as well
but he’d better be much cheaper. He’s been injured much of the year and just turned 30. Childress gives us a little bit of everything and he’s a superior defender. If we have Childress, Griffin and EJ and a coach like Avery Johnson I think we could be a pretty good defensive team.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly
Looks like people tend to overpay for established scorers who might make the team respectable but not title contenders.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Sure to be the most interesting offseason ever
The most important factor is how far Cleveland advances this year. If they win it all, I think LeBron stays (though not guaranteed). I think he wants to stay in Cleveland; the fans love him, it’s his hometown, and he seems to be a loyal guy. But if they flame out again, there is a good chance he walks.
Clearly LeBron gets first choice, then Wade, then Bosh. I’m pretty sure two of them will try to team up together somewhere if at all possible. That is most likely to happen in Miami. However, Miami has to be careful in their dealings with LeBron. If Riley rubs Wade the wrong way, he will surely head up to Chi-town. At that point one could see LBJ and Bosh teaming up, either in Miami or New York, though a LeBron/Wade combo in Miami would be surreal.
If Wade decides to stay with the Heat, the Bulls are sure to make a solid run at Bosh, who is exactly what they need there. Surely they will reach out to LeBron, but Chicago seems an unlikely destination for James – not an overwhelming roster and he doesn’t have roots there. Overall he is just not a great fit for the Bulls.
Once again, the Knicks will be the big loser this year, relatively speaking. Sure they’ll end up with Joe Johnson and another piece (Amare?), but neither LeBron or Wade will be going to NY. New Yorkers are going to have to accept the fact that the Knicks are not very attractive right now. It will be like the summer of 96, when just about every star player was a free agent, and all they could come up with was Larry Johnson, Allan Houston and Chris Childs. Disappointing.
With that said, my predictions are:
LeBron signs another short term deal and stays in Cleveland to defend the title.
Wade stays in Miami and is joined by a PF (Bosh, Boozer or Amare).
Bosh ends up in either Miami or Chicago
Joe Johnson to the Knicks.
As for the Clippers, well, despite missing out on the marquee names, they are able put together a very nice roster, addressing their needs with hustle guys and shooters to support their nice young core. And that’s ok, because the Clippers already have their franchise player. He just hasn’t played yet.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Most likely scenario is...
I think Bosh stays in Toronto, LBJ stays in Cleveland, Wade stays in Miami, they sign Amare, Joe Johnson stays in Atlanta, Boozer goes to the Bulls and Rudy Gay goes to the Knicks.
I’m curious to see how TMac does with the Knicks, he could help the Knicks cause if he thrives in D’Antoni’s system, as then these younger wing players get a better idea on how they would fit in. If beat up damaged goods Tmac look goods, then they have to be confident they can do one better.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Gay to the Knicks
Funny I hadn’t thought of that. I bet your right.
They will have to settle for something
and they will probably then keep David Lee. Actually Gay probably doesn’t work, isn’t Gallinari a SF? 2 of their 3 best players (assuming they end up just resigning David Lee) would play the same position.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
I hadn't thought of that, either
Won’t the same problem pertain if they sign LBJ?
What an odd oversight. Can Gallinari play SG?
Well LBJ
could easily play PF or SG. The Knicks also have Eddy Curry’s expiring deal next to trade. Some teams will be looking to drop longer deals before the 2010-2011 season ends with the uncertainty of the CBA negotiations.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions
Good point on curry's deal
The Knicks can probably add something pretty quickly using Curry’s contract.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 19, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
So you think NY overpays for Rudy to save face?
I could see it, but I think it is more likely they do so with Joe Johnson, who would probably go to NY to be with his old coach, D’Antoni.
But same principle. I don’t see either LBJ or Wade going to NY.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
I think Joe stays in ATL
since they have legitimate championship inspiration. If the Hawks want to keep him, then he will stay. If they don’t want to pony up the max then he’ll leave. I would say the Hawks more than Johnson decide what happens next.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
Also...
have to disagree on Bosh staying in Toronto. No way. They’re not very good, and he is in “No Man’s Land” up there.
But we’ll see.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
I think the Raptors know best
if they weren’t very confident he was staying they would have traded him. Toronto is hardly “No Man’s Land”, its actually the 5th biggest city in North America, that’s just typical American ignorance to call it such.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you
you forgot to mention my American arrogance, too. But I am rereading what I wrote, and I don’t recall calling Toronto a small city. I was referring more to the fact that it is not a great NBA city, and Bosh doesn’t get much attention up there.
By the way, there are plenty of U.S. “No Man’s Lands”. One need not cross the border.
You are obviously very cultured and worldly.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Haha
sorry didn’t mean to imply you were arrogant, I didn’t even know how nice Toronto was until I went there a few years ago. I just assume it was since I had never been there.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Toronto is awesome
Montreal is even better. I would love to play/live there (except for the taxes).
The European players certainly favor it. The Raps got a discount on Hedo because his wife wanted to live there. Not sure how Bosh likes it. He grew up in Dallas (like me).
Dallas and Toronto are quite different.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
People change
Bosh didn’t even stay in Texas for college, he went to Atlanta (Georgia Tech). He’s been in Toronto for 6 years now as well so he must be used to it now. Almost everyone wants to live in LA, its a wonderful place to live if you are rich.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:20 AM PST up reply actions
Actually,
it’s pretty wonderful if you are poor too. I can attest.
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
Heh
maybe it is. I went to Phoenix recently and was blown away by the affordability. We definitely pay a premium living in So Cal though.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 1:31 AM PST up reply actions
Wow, way to miss the point
I don’t know what Bosh is into. Perhaps Toronto is his thing. Dallas and Toronto are more different than Dallas and LA, but none of it matters. I was only stating that moving there must have been a big change for him.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Something else to consider:
As has been mentioned on this board, cap space isn’t only good for free agents. It can also be used to bail out a struggling team by taking on a contract, as the Clippers did to acquire Marcus Camby.
Just saying. Cap space is king.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
we could always copy the the Celtics
and trade our pick to get a established player. We could trade a future draft pick in 2011 for Iggy for instance (I think this years pick would be too much).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
Ooooh or we can finally land Danny Granger
he’d be worth giving up our 1st rounder for. That would give us a terrific starting 5.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
I think iggy for our lottery pick or the Minnesota unprotected 2011 pick makes a ton of sense.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Feb 18, 2010 9:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Perhaps
But would this really be attractive to Philly? Iggy was always a lure to get rid of one of their other burdensome contracts. They’d want to include Brand in the package, no?
No way we do that
FElton isn’t coming back here, not until he’s in the last year of his deal. Even then he’d have to beg for mercy outside Staples for 40 days and 40 nights before we forgave him.
If they want to trade us Iggy, we would trade them a 1st round pick (preferably one next year (2011) as hopefully we’d make the playoffs and not have another lottery pick).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
I think we rather have the pick
Not sure when Rubio will finally come over here. The Minnesota pick looks to be a very good one in 2012 once all the restrictions are lifted.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
I think Rubio would come over if he was traded to the Clips
I thought I read somewhere that going to the Clippers (big market) was the place he most wanted to be (read: not Minnesota, Memphis of OKC.)
I do like Rubio, so I wouldn’t hate the idea of trading that Minny pick for him, especially since I’m worried that Love and Jefferson are pretty good, and all it takes is one good year for that pick to be number 16 or something. I’d like to move that asset now when they are one of the crappiest teams in the NBA, since the value may be perceived to be at its highest point.
by Michael White on Feb 19, 2010 7:52 AM PST up reply actions
What about this year's pick for Rubio?
That’s definitely something to keep in mind if by chance we luck into the 2nd or 3rd pick this year and still want to keep our cap space. I’m curious how bringing Rubio (or MBFGC for that matter) would affect our cap number. Could we sign bring them over after landing a big name free agent? That would be sweet!
If we get a top 3 pick this year, we'd need to strongly consider keeping it depending on who's available.
Rubio has to play one more season for FC Barcelona before he can be bought out in the summer of 2011.
by Lawler 4ever on Feb 19, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Agree the Clips wouldn't automatically give up the pick
But if LAC wanted to keep its options open and get fair value for the pick, this could work. Rubio wouldn’t need to come over until 2011, when he could gradually replace Baron.
I'd be okay giving them this years pick
assuming its in the bottom half of the lottery if this would maintain our cap space. Would solve a lot of problems. Minnesota is going to be bad for a few years unless they luck into a transcendent young player like Kevin Durant. It’s possible of course but its also very rare. Hard to fathom it not being a top 7 pick.
Their 2 best players don’t play well together and they have a young scoring first point guard and that’s about it.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Hate to say it
But I also see the clipps making a run at Josh Howard or tmac. When u consider the fact our starting 5 is nearly set, we are really on looking at someone to play 3. These seem to be the options:
lbj
jj
gay
iggy
tmac
j. Howard
m. Miller
by The Blake Griffin Era on Feb 18, 2010 9:55 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm waiting to see how T-Mac plays this year.
He looked great against us. I really don’t want Howard. Miller could be a nice pick-up depending on what we do with the rest of our space.
by Lawler 4ever on Feb 18, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Tmac
Given our histories with injuries etc, I just feel like tmac would be a disaster, but I agree he could be a steal coming off all these injuries.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Feb 18, 2010 10:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Tmac
Given our histories with injuries etc, I just feel like tmac would be a disaster, but I agree he could be a steal coming off all these injuries.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Feb 18, 2010 11:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Weird double post
timed 25 minutes apart. Anyways yea, Tmac and Clippers would probably result in the Staples Center exploding. The Onion would be right after all.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
I totally understand.
The intriguing thing about him is that he was once a superstar and a go-to guy. He’s versatile in that he can play 1-3 and has great size to back it up. He wouldn’t have to be the man, but could if we needed him to during certain stretches.
That’s if he stays healthy. Microfracture, Back trouble for years, shoulder, etc. and the Clippers injury history just make it even more risky.
I could see New York re-signing him to a smaller deal if they strike out on their preferred choices.
I would consider him for a reasonable deal if we missed out on all of our targets.
by Lawler 4ever on Feb 18, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yea
he wouldn’t be a bad pickup. He’s actually a very good playmaker and willing passer. He’s also still a pretty popular player and would help ticket sales I think.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Paul Pierce may want to come home to LA after BOS blows it up
I’d consider that for the right price.
I’m also curious to see where Dirk goes. If he were to land in a situation where he is not the #1 option, that team will be awesome.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
We want a 33 year old Pierce?
Nah, the Celtics will want him to retire with him. He will be considered a all-time great there. Plus he’s won a championship, I think he’s less apt to move to another team just to chase a ring.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
Based on what Dunleavy said in an interview....
…. He claimed that we have roughly 22 -25 million of caps pace for next year. Why does it show only 17 million?
I think if you read this post, you'll have a better understanding...
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Feb 18, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
cap holds
Our 1st round pick and like 6 minimum contacts eat up some space.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 18, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
He said that?
Well, that’s a concern. I would like to think that the GM knows at least as much about this as I do. But no, based on the cap estimates, $17M is a pretty good number. Maybe $18M. See Eric Pincus’ Hoopsworld article also.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 19, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Well technically we do have 22-25 million right now
until the offseason when the cap holds hit us.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Not really
Because “right now” the expiring contracts haven’t expired yet.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Dun doesn’t know the nuances of the CBA. I don’t think he’s a capologist. I can’t imagine how someone could be both a capologist and a head coach. There isn’t enough time in the day.
I’m guessing he’s the talent evaluator and there’s someone else (maybe Neil Olshey) who actually does the cap stuff.
Thats true
or maybe hes planning to trade our pick. This draft isn’t that deep I’ve read, after Wall and Turner the rest aren’t that impressive.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
That doesn't make up the differeence
If we’re at $17 mil and he’s talking $22-25, that’s a significant difference. The #1 overall pick doesn’t get a $5-8 mil salary next year.
The only way I can justify his comment aside from simple misinformation is if he thinks the projected cap next year is going to be higher than others have stated. I think most are expecting around a $53 mil cap and that’s generally where our $16-18 mil cap space predictions come from. I guess it’s possible that he thinks the cap will be much higher.
Well
$4.98M (Griffin’s year 1 figure) is close enough to call it $5M isn’t it? That gets you to $22M which is the correct number under the current expected cap…
Its funny to me that people are even talking about this without the full context of what was said. Ultimately it was a perfectly reasonable way to describe the situation to the lay person.
Anything to pick at Dunleavy about still I guess.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Don't soil your diapers
The only one who even hinted at “picking” at Dun was Steve. Chuck is clearly trying to figure out a way to make sense of his comment, and my position is clearly (well clear to everyone but you apparently) that it’s not really a big deal.
And the #1 pick’s figure is close to the bottom range of what Dun said. It wouldn’t make sense to add 3 more mil if the statement was based on his expectation of trading our first round pick.
But you justify it all you want.
Anything to sound like a douche I guess.
LOL
You mad?
They have minimum $22M until they don’t.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Not sure where you're going, John...
The 17.5M number I came up with excludes the firs round pick completely. Doesn’t matter whether it’s 1st of 14th, $5M or $1M. It’s not in that estimate, and if it were, it would move the number down, not up. So if it’s the first overall, then the number goes down into the 12s, not up into the 22s. I didn’t hear the radio comment, I have no idea of the context, but saying “$22M to $25M in cap space” is just wrong. Now, I don’t actually suspect that Dunleavy is stupid – he worked on Wall Street before he started coaching, he can use a calculator. It really smacks of ‘overpromise – underdeliver’, the Clippers ongoing problem.
But it’s not that hard – there’s over $32M committed to four guys. The high end estimate for the cap most people use is $54M. There’s your $22M, and it ignores the reality of roster charges in addition to leaving out the first round pick. $25M? The only way to get there is to wave a wand and say the cap number is higher.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 19, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just glad
we have plenty of options; from the plethora of FAs, to the sign and trade ability
Re: taxes
By coming to LA, Lebron will likely be able to claim residence in Nevada, thereby circumventing the tax issue. Lots of business people do this, and I saw Baron getting out of a car with Nevada plates, so I’m guessing at least some athletes do this too.
Not really
It would be pretty easy for the IRS to establish that he earns more than half his income in California (all the home games, plus road games against GSW, Sacramento and LAL.) You might be able to hide all the other games as a Nevada resident, basically sayign that when you work on the road you are leaving from your house in Nevada (even though thats B.S.) But he is employed by a CA entity, and the majority of the wages are earned in CA. He’s going to be paying more in CA than Wade would in FLA, no matter where he claims residency.
Business people do this basically the same way. They buy a house in FLA, and all the time they are travelling for work, they can say they did it as a FLA resident. Doesn’t work for the days that you work in CA though. And its a lot easier for the IRS to show which days Baron or LBJ worked in CA, seeing as how those games are televised and there is a written record of the venue of the contest.
by Michael White on Feb 19, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Not necessarily true
Derek Jeter was in the news for this very issue within the past year. Lebron should rent when he’s in LA and then claim to be a resident of (insert no income tax state here).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I could be wrong, but...
I believe the players pay taxes for each state they play/work in. If we use New York as an example, they would pay their own state taxes for the 41 games they earn income in New York, and would not have any state taxes for the income they earn against the Magic, Knicks, Spurs, Mavericks or Rockets.
Check out this link for a better idea.
by Lawler 4ever on Feb 19, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Yup, that’s how it worked for me too. I used to travel a bunch and it required 15 different tax returns at year end for all the states I worked in.
Of course, I didn’t have a team of accountants drawing up loopholes for me….
by Michael White on Feb 19, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Baron actually does live in Nevada
he has a home in Vegas that he went to during the All star break.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
Western Conf.
I can’t really see LeBron wanting to switch conferences. In the East, he’s going to be the favorite to reach the Finals no matter what team he’s on.
I doubt that he's worried about that
and the East actually have 4 of the top 6 teams.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
No LBJ as long as DTS owns the team. He can help anyone win a world championship why would he pick a racist, slumlord to put on the pedestal?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
I think DTS is despicable
but have you read up on other owners? There’s a reason there was virtually zero outrage from the league when that stuff about DTS came out.
Heck, Jerry Buss has quite a history of unsavory acts himself. Clearly that hasn’t affected the Lakers winning championships.
What has Buss done?
besides half the blondes in So Cal (har har)? He’s lived the playboy lifestyle for awhile but he’s a saint compared to DTS isn’t he?
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
He's had some issues
Aside from getting caught drunk driving on the wrong side of the road (for which Stern actually fined and suspended him), Jerry Buss was hit with a $25 mil palimony suit by a woman who claimed that Buss started an affair with her, and married her while still married to his ex-wife, and had promised to take care of her for life. The lady was 19 yrs old and Buss was 54 when they started their “relationship.” Buss settled with that woman for $5 million.
Buss’s ex-wife had filed a similar suit against him claiming that he married her while married to someone else. And he also settled that lawsuit for an undisclosed sum.
Not that I’m saying Buss is worse than DTS mind you. Just that a lot of owners are shady. I think the Hornets owner had some legal issues with sexual harassment and such as well when they were in Charlotte.
My point is that players hardly care who the owner is as long as they spend their money and want to win. That’s all that matters.
Like I said
he’s lived the playboy lifestyle. Hmm let’s see a super rich old guy chasing after young girls… not exactly news, just drive around Hermosa Beach and you’ll see the end result (COUGARS) of these relationships. It’s not like he was discriminating against minorities trying to rent his properties or falsely pledging to build a homeless shelters but buying ads in the newspapers bragging about it. As the old saying goes, you can’t buy class.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Feb 19, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
"If LeBron wants out of Cleveland, and wants to win right away, the Clippers may be his best choice."
Sorry, Steve. As much as I would like Lebron James to come to the Clippers, it is highly unlikely he will – because actually the opposite of what you said is true. It is just too hard to change the culture of a franchise without changing the owner first; and I don’t think DTS is going anywhere anytime soon.
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
Agreed mostly
I don’t think you can ever use “win the right way” or actually even “win” with the Clips. It’s just a credible argument.
The bottom line to me is this – If Lebron wants the best combo of money, supporting talent, media market, good weather and superstar status, he’ll come to LA. It offers the best package of benefits.
But if he cares about winning, this franchise’s ignominious history and its embarrassingly incompetent owner places the team at the bottom of the list, regardless of current talent.
Agreed
he can’t count on a DTS commitment. When everything is equal we will not win out, we will need to be an only option to bring in a marquee player. That is why we got Baron, we were his only option.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Feb 19, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
LAC is in play
I would rank LeBron’s possible destinations like this:
1. Cleveland
2. New York
3. Miami
4. LAC
5. Chicago
6. New Jersey
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
With Snooki and The Situation down on the Jersey Shore would have to think the Nets might be #3 on his list.
The Nets have a boat load of money and most likely Johnnie Wall
"Most likely"
Sure it’s most likely that NJ gets the #1 overall pick based on percentages, but it’s hardly a certainty. The history of the team with the worst record winning the lottery isn’t good.
At this point, it probably doesn’t make sense to add John Wall as a bonus on any team.
remember the worst team in the league
has only gotten the number one pick once in the history of the lottery.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
Hmmm
I don’t think Miami is a factor at all. Lebron doesn’t want to join Wade’s team. Especially after Wade already won a ring without him. Lebron knows full well that in order to cement his legacy as one of the greatest of all time, he needs to win multiple rings on his team.
Now if both Lebron and Wade go somewhere else together, then it could credibly be said to be Lebron’s team. But joining the Heat isn’t going to do that.
Don't agree with that
I think they both know that together they could put together an incredible run. Miami has a lot going for it. And I don’t sense that LeBron thinks in “my team” terms. This isn’t Kobe we are talking about.
That said, Chicago is very much in play for Wade, so I expect Riley to go after LeBron HARD.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Have you heard Lebron?
He very definitely speaks in “my team” terms. He always refers to “his guys” and how the Cavs are “his team.” It has nothing to do with being a selfish egomaniac like Kobe. All the elite stars look at things that way. You don’t get to that level without a good amount of ego.
Lebron isn’t going to Miami. If Wade leaves, Riley can go as hard as he wants. He’ll have nothing but Beasley on the roster and a market worse than NY or LA. Selling Lebron on tax benefits and South Beach only gets you so far. Wade is the chip that Riley has and he’ll use it to lure a big like Boozer or Amare.
Is Shaq
whispering good things about LA in his ear or bad things?
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
by Phil Gurnee on Feb 19, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
probably good things so
Lebron can go to LA and piss off Kobe :)
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
A Perfect World
Dunleavy convinces OK Thunder that it needs an experienced PG like Baron, I don’t care what Clippers get in return, a draft pick will do. Let’s see what Blake can do the rest of the season starting. Next year would look bright then….
first of all Very good article. Very informative!
the only part i have a qualm with is, saying the with Lebron, the clippers would have the best starting lineup in the nba lol…..
not going to get into an argument about the statement, but I like to see that you still have undying faith in your team.
In Kobe we trust!

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