Clippers vs. Detroit - Game Preview
by Steve Perrin on Feb 24, 2010 1:01 AM PST
in Game Previews
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2009/2010 NBA Regular Season
vs
23-33 21-35
Staples Center
February 24th, 2010, 7:30 PM
Prime Ticket, 980 AM
Probable starters:
Baron Davis
PG
Rodney Stuckey
Eric Gordon
SG
Rip Hamilton
Rasual Butler
SF
Jonas Jerebko
DeAndre Jordan
PF
Tayshaun Prince
Chris Kaman
C
Ben Wallace
The Back Story:
November 27th, 2009 - Clippers 104 - Detroit 98 - Recap Box Score
The Big Picture:
Here's a little known fact about the 09-10 Clippers - they are 11-0 at home against teams currently at or below .500. With embarrassing losses to the likes of New Jersey, Minnesota, Golden State, Indiana and New York (5 of the 6 worst records in the league as of today), it's easy to think of the team as underperforming against the worst teams. But all of those losses came on the road - they're still losses of course, and plenty embarrassing, but the simple fact is that the team is undefeated against sub-.500 teams at home, so they've taken care of business in Staples Center, at least so far (16-12 overall). So maybe we shouldn't have been so surprised that they were able to beat Charlotte (who was .500 coming into the game) on Monday. LA was able to come up with that win against the Bobcats despite a sub-par game from Eric Gordon, who really should be taking center stage in the latter part of this season. EJ got plenty of nice looks from beyond the arc - he just missed a bunch of them (though he did make three). But unlike the Sacramento game, he was unable to get to the rim against Charlotte (to their credit, a very good perimeter defensive team). Other than hoping that Gordon can play a little better, I'll take pretty much all of the other performances against Charlotte. All nine of the players in Kim Hughes' rotation made solid contributions on Monday, and I believe they are all capable of doing so on a consistent basis. Consistency starts tonight.
The Antagonist:
LA is 11-0 at home against sub-.500 teams, Detroit is 21-35 on the season, ergo Clippers win. It's as simple as that, right? Wrong. Before their meeting in November, Detroit had beaten the LAC 13 consecutive times, invariably by wide margins. And as it happens, Tayshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton and Ben Gordon all missed that Motor City meeting, and they'll all be back tonight. So I don't expect this to be an easy game. As we know, several opponents have the Clippers' number - San Antonio, New Orleans, Utah, etc. - but Detroit has certainly been high on the nemesis list for many years. Of course, for most of those years the Pistons featured Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace, and that's not the case anymore. But with Prince and Hamilton back in the lineup (not to mention Ben Wallace), this team looks suspiciously like the ones that toyed with the Clippers over the years. Obviously the Pistons are not the same team that has made the playoffs eight straight seasons, and far from the team that was in six straight Easter Conference Finals or beyond. But after losing 19 of 23 games from mid December until the end of January, they've actually been playing much better - they're 6-4 in February, which is a hell of a lot better than the Clippers' 3-6 February record. And don't think that Prince and Hamilton and even Stuckey don't know their history against the Clippers - they'll have plenty of confidence coming into this game - they EXPECT to win this game. Tayshaun has never lost to the LAC - he's 13-0.
The Subplots:
- Kaman and Prince. Chris Kaman has been linked to the Pistons in trade rumors off and on for at least a year, and usually it's Prince's name on the other side. There was probably never much to the rumors - the Pistons need a center, Kaman is from Michigan, the Clippers are the Clippers, what more do you need to start that rumor? If the offer was in fact real, it would have been very tempting last summer. But with Kaman having a break out season and Prince having the worst of his career while dealing with a balky back, it's looking like the best deal the Clippers never made.
- DEE-TROIT BAS-KET-BALL. I'll be in class tonight during the game and not in press row, but it's probably just as well, because nothing annoys me more than the thousands of Pistons fans who pour into Staples Center for every Clippers game. The worst is the DEE-TROIT BAS-KET-BALL thing. What the hell is that? Just stop, it's really grating.
- The last time Prince played the Clippers. For the meeting in Detroit last season, Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace and Stuckey were all injured. No problem, the Pistons just gave the ball to Prince, and he proceeded to destroy the Clippers, scoring 23 and dishing out a career-high 12 assists. It was the kind of outlier performance that seems to happen regularly against the Clippers.
- The Last time Jonas Jerebko played the Clippers. Speaking of which, in the meeting last November Swedish rookie Jerebko went for his career-high with 22 points against the Clippers. He was 8 for 11 from the field, 4 for 4 from the three point arc. He's under 28% from three on the season and averaging less than 9 points per game.
- Thornton versus Stuckey. With the Pistons coming to town and Al Thornton now starting for the Wizards, it's time to dust off the 2007 draft discussion, perhaps for the last time. In that draft, the Clippers took Thornton at 14, and the Pistons grabbed Stuckey at 15. Both would seem to be better than Yi Jianlin (6), Spencer Hawes (10), Acie Law (11) and Julian Wright (13) and probably Mike Conley (4) as well. I'll call the jury out on Brandan Wright (8) who has been hurt and Corey Brewer (7) who looked like a major bust at first but has been playing some serious ball lately. So both Thornton and Stuckey were good picks in the middle of the round. We know Al Thornton's flaws all too well, but he was a very good pick at 14 - the only players taken after him that are even in the conversation are Stuckey, Aaron Brooks (26) and Carl Landry (31), and only Daryl Morey's humungous brain comprehended what Brooks and Landry could be. As for Stuckey, he's been a fine pick at 15 - but the Pistons have to be disappointed that he hasn't developed more since his rookie year. They were so impressed with him back then that they felt comfortable going forward with a payroll slicing maneuver and shipped Chauncey Billups to Denver, handing the reins to Stuckey. The Pistons have been somewhere between steady decline and free fall ever since - which is not Stuckey's fault, though it's not NOT his fault either. Stuckey shoots a terrible percentage (just over 40%), doesn't shoot with range (20% from three), and isn't a particularly pure point guard (less than 5 assists per game, an assist to turnover ratio around 2). So he's a combo guard who can't shoot. Basically, it seems like he'd be a really nice backup for a lot of teams - but if he's your starting point guard, you've got some issues. Which describes the Pistons pretty well.
- Offensive glass. In the first meeting, the Pistons (well, mostly Ben Wallace) grabbed an astounding 19 offensive rebounds. Basically, no one other than Jerebko could make a shot, but the game still went down to the wire because of the offensive boards. The Clippers have got to do a better job tonight.
- Fours? Prince is starting at the four for the Pistons. He's backed up by Charlie Villanueva. So neither is really the traditional four. I can't really figure out Hughes' thinking on the starting four for the team. When I think he's going to start Smith, he starts Jordan, and vice verse. And now of course there's Drew Gooden to consider as well. But whoever plays the four is going to have to defend Villanueva at the three point arc (he shoots almost 4 per game, though his percentage isn't great) and stay in front of the multi-talented Prince. Sounds more like Travis Outlaw than any of those other guys. We'll see.
- Kaman. Chris Kaman had a huge game against these guys last time and I expect he will again. They try Ben Wallace, Chris Wilcox and Jason Maxiell at center - Wallace and Maxiell are 6'-7" or 6'-8" at most, and Wilcox has never been known for his post defense. Kaman should be a very tough cover for any of them. I know you're thinking that Wallace is great defender, but remember he's now 35 and his best seasons are far behind him.
- TV Quote:
Max Headroom - Max Headroom (1987). Can anyone explain to me why every season of "Whose the Boss?" is available on DVD, but Max Headroom isn't?Oh, NO, no no-no-no-no! I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but if they think I'm endorsing car accessories, they've got another dipstick-stick coming. No-No, they've tried this one before and I'm radial tired of it! If they expect me to change gear now and start spark-spark-spark plugging their products, they must be out of their pist-pist-piston heads! Listen, I don't like to blow my own gasket, but I have better things to do than just sit here and wax polish lyrical about car parts! Car parts! I've got letters from fan belts who say, "Max, you're special! You're unique! You're differential!" Yes, yes I know it's what they want, that's because they're air conditioned to it - to it. Oh - to it. Oh, I've fendered it off time and timing belt again. I mean, who's calling the tune-tune-tune up? Who's in cru-cru-cru-cru-cruise control here, anyway? I'll tell ya who! Me! Me! Max Headlamp! And if they don't like it, they can stick-stick-stick shift it in their exhaust pipes and choke-choke it! AND smoke it!
- Get the Pistons' perspective at Motown String Music.
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Thornton vs. Stuckey ???
is Thornton’s clone still on the team : )
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
nvm
you are talking about the draft. I really should read closer.
" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler
I said...
It was the last time… You know, for old time’s sake.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 24, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
EJ and perimeter defense
Has he been streaky, or does he just have trouble against longer teams like Charlotte?
He always has his outside shot, but his drives to the hoop seem vulnerable to certain defenses.
Clipperblog had a nice writeup earlier in the season on this
but I’ll try to paraphrase. Gordon (like all outside shooters really) can be streaky from outside. Where Gordon is generally strong is that even if his outside shot is not falling, he can do a good job of breaking down his man and getting an easy basket at the rim. Of course, there are certain teams (like Charlotte) that are really good defensively and are quick enough to still play Gordon tight and not let him get by them. Even against Charlotte, he did an okay job of beating his man, but Charlotte was doing a pretty good job of playing help D and Gordon doesn’t have the handles (yet) to find an open Kaman when that happens. Even still, I think Gordon did a better job against the Bobcats of not turnign the ball over when that happened. That’s the best as I could tell was happening but somebody might be able to do a better job of breaking it down as I was at the game as opposed to watching it on TV so its harder to notice some of these things….
by Michael White on Feb 24, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
EJ vs. CHA
8 of his 11 FG attempts were from three – he made three, but almost all of them were really good looks. I was surprised at how many clean looks he was getting. Conversely, he only had three two point attempts, and only made one, which was a pretty lucky (and huge) shot in the final minute.
Charlotte is crazy quick and long, especially their bigs. They were essentially playing Tyrus Thomas at the five down the stretch, along with Wallace and Diaw, so their help defense is outstanding. So even though EJ could break down Stephen Jackson and did, the help was always there. Combined with the fact that the refs were pretty much refusing to blow the whistle, and there just wasn’t a lot of success going to the basket. Having said that, I would still like EJ to be more aggressive than three shots – but a lot of it was definitely due to that specific game.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 24, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
Good responses! :-)
Some guys on the game thread were commenting that EJ needs to look before he leaps… That he shouldn’t leave his feet without a plan. I think this relates to developing a better handle, and of course to having better court vision. I’d much rather see this from him than a post game.
BTW, he also needs to go up stronger, IMO. Stop swivelling, draw the contact, and make the foul more obvious. And beware of long teams with good help defense.
My girlfriend got me courtside seats for my birthday
not the grandest of games but the grandest of gestures. I’ll be wearing a white hat sitting on the near side if you are watching the game on TV. Let’s hope our boys give me a present here.
Awesome
Have a good time. That’s a great gift….
by Michael White on Feb 24, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks guys
yes she is serious… much more serious than the internet.
Fours?
I suppose this is a test to the new (interm) coach’s philosophy.
Obviously if it was CMDsr, Outlaw (Thornton back then) would start to match-up with the other team instead of sticking to the norm and start either Jordan, Smith, or Gooden (Camby back then) and exploit the height/post advantage.
Is Hughes a “play my team based on the opponent” or “play my team that why my team is and let the opponent match my team, or not” type of coach? We’ll find out at 7:30.
What height/post advantage do Jordan, Smith and Camby have? I understand your point of not adjusting to the other team, but it’s not as though any of those guys have the offensive skills to really punish the stretch 4’s of the NBA. Smith has post skills, but no height advantage (and he’s a fouling machine and not the good kind) and Jordan and Camby have no post moves to speak of (I really can’t tell you about Gooden yet but Gooden is probably good enough to punish these kind of fours.) It’s not like we’re discussing taking out the legitimate post player in Kaman against a stretch Center like Okur. Frankly, why not try to match up Outlaw with the stretch 4’s better on the defensive end since none of these guys are going to abuse their undersized counterparts in the paint anyway.
by Michael White on Feb 24, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Smith
Smith might actually be a good counter. Prince/Villanueva are both the Lamar Odom body type, and Smith has had great success against those guys. His low center of gravity let’s him move them, and he gets into their body to keep them off balance and negate their height advantage. Now, I think Prince is a better defender than Odom, and I’m not convinced it will work on him. But in theory, these are the kinds of guys that Smith can score on.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 24, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Good Point
Good note on the coaching philosophy issue. Another factor is that there are all sorts of new options. Seems to be worthy of a poll: pretty much anybody’s guess on who will start at the 4 tonight.
I’m going with DJordan. It worked last game, CSmith is a handful and a strong scorer coming off the bench, and Gooden is going to have to play a few games to get consideration as a starter. DJordan, playing alongside Kaman, deserves the chance to play good games back-to-back.
The only problem with starting DJ is that I don’t love the Gooden-Smith backup lineup, though I’m not sure why. A short rotation in and out and back in for DJordan would be good. Let him start and play 4 minutes, bring in Smith, take Kaman out with 2-4 minutes to go, bringing DJordan back. Let Gooden start the 2nd quarter (DJ-Gooden), Have Kaman come back in for DJordan. Bring Smith in for Gooden at some point, either one of those two finishing the 2nd quarter. Something like that. Whatever. KHughes is doing a good job of trying to give Novak some minutes too.
by citizen zhiv on Feb 24, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think getting Gooden a few games is necessary to put him in the starting lineup
Look at Steve Blake. Granted BDavis was out, there were still options (not good or better, but still options based on clipper playtime) of Mardy Collins or Bobby Brown.
Technically neither DJordan or Smith are “starters” so its not like they take anything away from Gooden being a starter.
Either way, I like your idea on the rotation if Kaman and DJordan are starting.
I find it very odd that KHughes said “DJordan nor Kaman is a 4, hence they will not be on the floor at the same time”….yet we see them together time and time again. Not saying its a bad thing, I like the “twin towers” but hey KHughes isn’t sticking to what he said?
Gooden could start right away
I don’t think he needs the games. I’m just saying that DJ played well as a starter alongside Kaman against the Bobcats, and I would like to see him have a chance to start tonight against Detroit, and perhaps play even better.
Gooden could jump right in, but I’d prefer seeing DJ get a shot.
The other thing worth noting is that the Clips had a big long string of horrible first quarters going, and they have had a problem with not being able to get any fast starts all year. Doesn’t apply to the overhauled new roster and new system, but it’s a problem that needs to be addressed.
Hughes’s statement on Kaman and DJordan was made before the first game. Not only did they play together in that game, he started them together in the next game. And it worked, more or less. So it seems as if he has moved on to a new understanding.
by citizen zhiv on Feb 24, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
I like the Smith idea
It’s sort of a hybrid between KidJustin’s two options. We adjust our lineups to the opposition, but we do so on our own terms.
If you guys go with a stretch 4, then we’ll pound you with our Rhino.
That last sentence might confuse and offend people if it were...
anywhere other than a clipper thread….
this is interesting
i just added Drew Gooden to my fantasty team because he was the best available and now he’s a clipper. Now i have Gordon, Kaman, and Gooden haha
More Outlaw
I’m looking forward to seeing more of Outlaw. He looked great on Monday and I hope he gets plenty of run for the rest of the season. I’d imagine that he’s the 1 guy they’ll really consider keeping since he could potentially be a starting 3.
Gotta admit, it’s really nice having Blake on the bench behind Baron. Now instead of cringing every time Baron sits, it’s actually a nice change of pace.
A palpable difference
I’m really looking forward to tonight and our new look as well.
Agreed on Outlaw
He’s likely the one they’d most like to keep – fills a need, younger than Butler, still has upside.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Feb 24, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
What about Blake?
If we’re looking to keep Outlaw it means LBJ fell through. Would love for Blake to stay. We were all geeked when Bassy came over. He instantly became the best backup PG in the Dunleavy era, at least, and now Blake blew him out of the water.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Feb 24, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
It's certainly possible
But probably less likely. It’s all about the money though. With so much money tied up in Baron, it simply doesn’t make sense to invest more money in a backup PG. Especially when the wing positions are pretty thing (since Butler and Outlaw are FAs).
So if another team will give Blake more money and/or more minutes, then he’ll probably leave. A guy like Blake isn’t in any position to leave money on the table.
Yeah, the wing is our priority
There are a lot of ways this might play out, of course. Assuming no Lebron, I’d like to see us target a gem in the rough (Outlaw, Childress, or someone else who might demand a little more than the MLE), and then use the rest of our cap space wisely.
At that point, what would be wise? With Griffin as a potential SF backup, we could afford to draft another wing and consider that position covered. Then I’d think our next hole would be a backup pg. Do you think any team is going to offer Blake more than he’s making already? My guess is we could land him for around $4M. If so, that’s what I’d do.
Yea it depends on the years
I agree with you that $4 mil for Blake is very reasonable. It would depend on how many years he wants. Do I give Blake a 3 yr contract at $4 mil a year? Yes. I wouldn’t give him much more than that though.
In this league, giving average players long term contracts hurts. You pay the stars big money, you pick up a couple of cheap rookies and you fill the roster with short, bargain contracts.
Assuming we miss out on a big time FA, I think it makes the most sense to spread the money amongst a couple of very reasonable players. And maybe that ends up being our own guys. I’m ok with that. Again, it depends on how much we’re talking. For sure, I don’t give any free agent on our team a contract longer than 3 yrs unless it’s a total steal.
The sobering reality though is that this team needs more stars, not role players. Stars win in this league, and right now we have zero. We’re praying Blake is that star, but if he’s not, this team is in trouble. That’s why you don’t commit long term to anybody on this team. We’re not sure what we have until we see Blake.
Hunting for that star
It sure hurts that we didn’t get to see Griffin this season. I still can’t believe that a hairline cost him a whole year.
Seriously
But that’s the Clips for you. We finally land the #1overall pick in a year where there’s 1 sure star, and he goes down before the season starts. Meanwhile, the rest of the draft has looked far better than expected.
It COULD be a blessing in disguise if we somehow get in the top 3 again this year for the lottery. A John Wall/Evan Turner pick changes everything.
So, what's your philosophy
on still competing for wins?
I try to see it as win-win
The truth is, it’s illogical to want this team to win right now. It only marginally helps the team and it certainly hurts its chances to get a higher pick. For example, in 02-03, the Cavs were tied for the worst record in the league with Denver. Had the Cavs won one more meaningless game that season, they could very well have lost out on the top pick, Detroit would have Lebron (via Denver’s pick) and things would be VERY different right now with Lebron joining a team that had Chauncey, Rip, Prince, Sheed and Ben Wallace.
But we fans aren’t all about logic and this team has lost so much that we’re all sick of it. So I try to just watch the team, enjoy a win if we get it, and if we don’t, I tell myself that it’s better of anyway.
It’s a sad state to be in, but one the Clips constantly force me to be in year after year. I really hate them for that.
it wasn't denver's pick the pistons own
it was memphis….therefore , via memphis.
you know i think investing money in blake just to keep baron on his toes is not too terrible a way to spend money.
its like if you had a house that cost a million dollars, but is built on a hill that could go in a mudslide so you spend $200k on concrete to reinforce that hill.
baron needs to have someone that he thinks he could lose his starting job to.
Baron's not losing his job to Blake
The team couldn’t possibly justify Baron’s salary on the bench. Not for a guy like Steve Blake.
yeah but if he wants any kind of minutves, we could cut him down to say 28 minutes a game if we had a reliable backup.
and a guy like baron wants to actually play in the games, but itll be a matter of , you can play if you dont play like an idiot if there are other players who can play.
i mean really with telfair, or mike taylor or whatever, we couldn’t make that claim. if we roll blake or say a ramon sessions ou tthere…. we would have had that option, and it might make baron think “crap if i want to get 40 minutes of burn i have to actually not jack up 3s like an idiot”
You're assuming
that otherwise Baron thinks “I’ll just be an idiot and jack up 3s.” I don’t think that’s the case. I think Baron is so confident in himself that he actually thinks that he’ll make the shots that he takes. Now, if you want to say he’s not self-aware, I can’t argue with that. But I highly doubt the guy takes bad shots because he’s intentionally trying to lose.
I think he jacks up shots
out of a frustrated determination. Emotions, you know. I honestly think: The better the team plays, the better he’ll play. If he’s not frustrated, he’ll play smart. And if so, we don’t have to worry about him being the weak link.
Poor gets poorer, rich gets richer. So it goes it goes with Baron.
I want Blake around to compliment him and to give him his necessary rest. Maybe occasionally light a fire, but that’s secondary.
Blake?
You were skeptical before that either guys would be here next season. Are you softening on this? If we have to resort to plan B, what do you think the chances are we’ll want to resign both of them? (Note that I don’t take our success the effort as any sort of given).
Blake doesn’t have the upside, but he sure looks like he’s got a couple years still in him, and we could sure use a solid, steadying backup for Baron. What’s the point of looking elsewhere, if it turns out we have some cap space to burn?
It looks like Gordon for President beat me to the punch here, but an echo never hurt.
Saying it twice can't hurt ;)
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Feb 24, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Crazy how the team doesn't seem to have a set form anymore
The team just goes out and battles it’s still to early to determine if this squad is something that could be considered long-term. Baron Davis and Chris Kaman need to do more helping and less hurting on this team consistentcy is a must.
If you got rid of Baron and Kaman right now
and played the game tonight with Blake and Jordan as the starting PG and C respectively would the team be better or worse? I find it hard to believe that Kaman and Baron do more hurting the team than helping.
by Michael White on Feb 24, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
when they're both on their games
both are huge for this team. Baron is clearly the “easier” piece to let go at this moment. DJ isn’t ready for a starting gig (though during summer league i felt different)
by dulciusEXasperis on Feb 24, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
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