More Dunleavy Reactions Around the Web
by Steve Perrin on Mar 10, 2010 9:38 AM PST
in News
110 comments
There's not really any new information in any of this, but here are a few more links for you.
Bill Plaschke writes in his column about the endless possibilities that this move presents to the Clippers. I must say, it seems far too optimistic to assume that 26 years of futility are now behind them because a guy who's been around for seven of those years, who happened to lead them to their best record in those 26 years, has been fired. "If Clippers fans look up today, they can see the limit to this team's possibilities. It's called, rather improbably, the sky."
Tom Ziller of FanHouse offers the counterpoint - Donald Sterling is still the owner, as well as the common thread in the 26 years of being a laughingstock. It's one thing to make a serious offer to a big time coach or GM (though of course it remains to be seen if that even happens) - but if the guy has option, would he actually choose to work for Donald Sterling? This argument of course applies to LeBron James as well, but I think it has much more bearing on the discussion of coach and general manager. LeBron generates his own atmosphere - but the coach and GM are much more vulnerable to the whims of the owner.
Lisa Dillman fleshed out the story that she posted on the blog last night with a few more details, though nothing we hadn't heard before. She does give us this quote from an Andy Roeser eMail to the Times: "With all due respect to Mike, we arrived at the realization that we weren't going to be able to move forward together in the long term, and we felt that, in order to give us the most flexibility as we approach this opportunity-filled off-season, making a clean break was our best option at this time." That's actually a pet peeve of mine - when someone starts a sentence "With a due respect..." and then proceeds to say something entirely disrespectful. People do it with "No offense..." also. "No offense, but you're the most vile human I've ever met." "None taken."
Ramona Shelburne also added some Dunleavy information to her latest post at ESPNLA.
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Beat me to it...
I just fanposted the Mona and reallisa articles. I didn’t bother with the Plaschke article because he just doesn’t get it. The Ziller article is brief but, IMO, right on the nose… I cannot see how this firing can be viewed in the positive in any way. It seems the act of a organization which is, at its core, remarkably and terrifyingly passive-aggressive.
swami
I deleted you’re fanshot, just in the interest of concentrating the comments in one place. No offense.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 10, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I was actually going to ask you to do just that.
Now you can delete this exchange if you like.
I can't say I'm disappointed,
but I am confused. This is an eye-brow raising organization. I’m interested to see what their plan is, assuming they have one. I don’t think a move out of the blue like this gives any potential new coach, GM or free agent much confidence. In fact, things are as murky as ever.
Who has been running things the past few months or years? Nobody really knows at this point.
The good news is that there is a decent roster and a lot of cap space. The bad news is that there is a whacky owner and no apparent leader.
Say what you will about Dunleavy, he is the winningest coach in franchise history (which is a bit like being the tallest kid in kindergarten – you’re still short), and is respected around the league, as echoed yesterday by Stan Van Gundy.
We’ll have to reserve judgement.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Good to see you working it mp
This is an interesting moment. We can figure out what’s happening, and speculate on the future. It’s going to make sense at some point.
It’s not a bad thing for Dunleavy to be gone. It’s doubtful that DTS and Roeser are going to go out and spend a bunch of money on a complete incompetent.
One part that’s troubling is that Dunleavy did a lot to move the organization forward into the real world of the NBA. He had a stink of defeat on him and wore bad suits and his face turned red and he had a bad back, but he managed to get the practice facility built, made players like FElton and Kaman better, took the team deep into the playoffs, had the good fortune to draft the #1 pick last year, and generally set the table pretty nicely for a new regime and a new star, with abundant cap space available in a bonanza year for free agents. The Clippers look pretty sweet right now. They look even sweeter, somehow, without Dunleavy. It’s a bit ironic, and a somewhat surprising turn. But it makes sense.
Now we get to see what happens.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
xlnt post
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
My only fear
is that DTS goes back to his old ways, doing things on the cheap. Those like us who have been around a while recognize that Dunleavy, for all his flaws, was the first person to get Sterling to finally open the wallet. And things improved.
So, it remains to be seen which direction they go. There is promise, but the X-factor is the Clippers sordid history. At least Dunleavy was willing to go to bat against the wretched owner. If I’m LeBron, this new picture concerns me. Now, if they go out and hire a big name, and resume the course of building the team, well then, hell, we should all be optimistic.
I just hope that Sterling doesn’t view the Dunleavy era as a bad experiement and go back to his old habits. Right now it’s 50/50, and that concerns me.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Understood
But I think we can be optimistic. Let’s look at it as if Dunleavy made DTS more sophisticated, and DTS figured out that he could spend some more money to make more money. And he’s not the same guy he was 10 years ago. He’s 10 years richer with all of his real estate (mind-boggling, actually) and he has a different attitude about being an NBA owner. On some levels, his old original philosophy of paying star money for stars still holds. He’s been burned on a few occasions and the sky didn’t fall in. He built the practice facility and it makes him look good. He doesn’t want to be a joke as an owner.
Should we be thinking of Dunleavy as like Moses? He led the Clippers across the desert, a long march through crazy injuries and too many losses and building the practice facility and gaining improved respectability, but he was never going to cross over to the Promised Land.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
That's generally my view - but
I think that MDSr squandered the opportunity he created. Moses didn’t do that.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Brilliant analogy Zhiv
And Jax Moses did squander an opportunity if your familiar with the story, when striking the rock when he wasn’t supposed to.
by Takebb909 on Mar 10, 2010 5:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nice re: Moses
If anything, Dunleavy helped change DTS. Hope it sticks.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Optimism?
I don’t get that. I don’t see anything at all to be optimistic about. DTS acting on a whim? Replacing Dunleavy with Olshey and Hughes? Sure seems like the bad old days to me. Okay so Dunleavy had to go, but now? With no plan in place? This is all so 1998 again.
Has anyone even noticed that Hughes benched Baron last night? And Baron took it to the press? Clipper ship is headed for big rocks. Baron’s in the water. DTS is on the bridge and that means we are effed.
I agree
Dunleavy going isn’t so bad. It’s just that it relects more disfunction.
But some people would rather be rudderless than have Dunleavy around, so for them, today is like Christmas.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
If by rudderless you
mean that the Clippers finally have a real chance to put a winning product on the floor, then, yes, I would agree, today is like Christmas. Or Channukah (for Moses fans) or Kwanza.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If by "rudderless" you
mean that the Clippers finally have a real chance to put a winning product on the floor, then, yes, I would agree, today is like Christmas. Or Channukah (for Moses fans) or Kwanza.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
What is wrong with this
“If by rudderless you mean “get a real chance to put a winning team on the floor” then I agree it’s like X mas
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
That's ridiculous - sorry - technical issues
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Baron was benched for missing shootaround
he actually played well last night. Let’s not make mountains out of molehills.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't see the game...
It’s just that no one commented on it. Hughes went after Baron because he didn’t believe he had a stomach ailment and put him on the bench… and Baron bitched about it to reporters. It’s significant, isn’t it? If that happened with Kobe and Phil it would be front page news.
Actually
it was a rule Hughes had in place apparently. You miss the shoot around and you don’t start. Baron says he didn’t there was such a rule.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Erm
Baron says he didn’t KNOW there was such a rule
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
Good note
Thanks for clarifying that. I didn’t know what it was about, and the Dunleavy news obscured it.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, I get your point. You don't have to repeat
What leads you to believe that the Clippers are about to put a winning product on the floor?
Do you have info that we don’t about the future coach and GM?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Good chance Olshey is the GM
Seems like he orchestrated a lot of the recent moves that got us that coveted cap space. He could be the resident cap expert in the organization.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
If so, Olshey did a great job
This gets to the heart of the problem. Nobody knows. It is a shadowy organization. I’m not sure that will attract quality players or coaches.
I would be more comfortable if they would come out and explain who has been doing what and if there is a plan going forward. Sooner rather than later, too.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Are there any transparent organizations?
Not sure any of them are that open. The only one is possibly the Mavs since Cuban is one of the more vocal owners.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
There are few transparent orgs.
but the Clips are uniquely shadowy, and bizarre. They could benefit from opening up.
I lived in Dallas in the 80’s and 90’s. The Mavs sucked. Cuban changed the culture and they are a top shelf organization.
Though it was modest, Dunleavy should be credited with at least shifting the culture here. Clippers fans never had expectations prior to Dunleavy. Now we are disappointed when we don’t meet them. That is a change.
I hope the organization at least builds on that, and doesn’t revert to the pre-Dunleavy mindset.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Exactly!!
Though it was modest, Dunleavy should be credited with at least shifting the culture here. Clippers fans never had expectations prior to Dunleavy. Now we are disappointed when we don’t meet them. That is a change.
Give credit when credit is due. I think this sums up MDsr’s tenure here perfectly.
In retrospect, he should have been fired a couple of seasons ago, but for all the preceived “bad” that he did, he definitely has done more good IMO. And he even leaves the Clippers better off than when he first came on board. I for one am not against letting MDsr go at this point, but the timing still seems a little fishy. I can only hope for bigger and better things next season. Afterall, that is the mantra around here….“wait until next season”.
Do or do not. There is no try.
I agree with mikey's description
But I’m not sure that translates to “more good than bad”
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's my opinion...
hence the “IMO” after my statement. Although, it would be cool make a list of perceived “good” and “bad” things MDsr did while with the Clips, and then argue the merits of each. One thing is for sure, though. He DID change the culture regarding the Clippers…and this is definitely a good thing…and quite possibly the best thing he ever did.
Do or do not. There is no try.
He didn't change the culture
This team’s culture is losing. And he did plenty of that. And as he leaves, this team has been losing quite a bit.
He changed the way DTS operated a bit. He definitely found a way to convince DTS to spend some money and that’s no small task. I’m not trying to minimize it at all.
But the reality is, before Dun got here, the team was considered as losers. After 6 years, the team is still considered losers.
He did briefly
And the fact that Clippers fans are no longer satisfied with losing suggests that some progress was made.
Hopefully the new regime can build on it.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
true...
…But we are now a higher caliber of losers.
by Takebb909 on Mar 10, 2010 5:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The team still loses
just not as much as before. The team was really really bad before. Now we might just be good old regular bad.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
"A higher caliber of losers" - LOL
I agree with you, but is that really an accomplishment?
Now that I agree with
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I didn't say that
But they had to change things up to give themselves a chance. Things weren’t working.
I do not have info you don’t (trying to get it though)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Agreed on the timing
It’s really weird that they decided to make this move now. Unless they have someone waiting in the wings and ready to take the job, why now? One of the articles mentioned how it’s possible that they got wind that someone would be able to lure Lebron. But that’s pretty questionable IMO.
Dun did some good things here and some bad things. Like people have said, he did better with this team than most others. But it was time for a change. He took this team as far as he could (within a shot of the WCF) and since then it’s been a backslide. The team clearly wasn’t continuing to improve by any stretch.
Personally, I think they need to throw a boat load of money at Jerry Colangelo. He’s greatly respected around the league and has relationships with the league’s elite players through is post heading up USA Basketball. If there’s a GM that Lebron and Wade would respect, it’s Colangelo. Plus, just the level of respect that Colangelo has around the league would change the way people look at the Clips. You wouldn’t hear real basketball people sneering “it’s the Clips” with Colangelo running things.
Sterling is a complete idiot in the basketball world. He should just ask David Stern who he should hire and I’m pretty sure Stern would recommend Colangelo if he’s a viable option.
Colangelo would be fantastic
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Except for the fact that LBJ and the other stars know Jerry
He hasn’t exactly done a bang up job in Toronto.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
What happened to young blood?
We are talking about two septuagenarians here between Colangelo and Brown.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
RIght
I assumed that he was Jerry, Jr. He seems like a Jr. to me.
Personally, I don’t like either one.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
What is there not to like about Jerry?
He built a contender in Phoenix, and led the resurgence of USA Basketball?
Not too many execs have a better resume…
They kept trading picks for cash
I realize that’s the owner’s fault, but if he can’t handle Sarver, how will he handle Sterling?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
What is there to handle?
If the owner demands that they cut salary, there isn’t anything anyone can do. The Suns were trying to avoid the luxury tax, not something the Clips have even had to worry about.
If you want a GM who will come here and make Sterling turn into Paul Allen, then there isn’t a man alive who can fill the position. For all the talk about Dunleavy getting Sterling to open up his wallet, you realize that the Clips still had a pretty reasonably priced roster right? It wasn’t like Dun made Sterling pay the luxury tax.
"It wasn’t like Dun made Sterling pay the luxury tax"
That would have been stupid for him to do. But at least he got the guy to spend something.
I doubt DTS would have signed Brand for $82M on his own accord.
Colangelo traded picks for cash. The Suns have a bleak future.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Well
My point is simply that Colangelo having to trade picks for cash to avoid the luxury tax, is really not comparable to Dun getting Sterling to just spend money. You’re acting like the two instances show that Dun can do something that Colangelo can’t. The only thing that Colangelo’s stint shows is that he can’t get an owner to pay the luxury tax. That isn’t even an issue here.
As for Phoenix’s future, you realize that he left that team a few years ago right? He can hardly carry a lot of blame for their current state.
I realize that
Kerr really blew it. But it would have been nice to have some draft picks on the roster.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Yea I agree
I definitely don’t want Colangelo or any GM to come in here and start selling draft picks. That would be terrible.
I’m just saying that sometimes stuff like that is out of the GM’s hands. Warkentein in Denver had to trade Camby for nothing. I doubt that was his ideal choice. Even RC Buford gave away Luis Scola. They could definitely use him now.
I’m not saying Colangelo is the basketball Jesus (going off of the Moses discussion above), but he has a ton of respect around the league and has had some big successes. I guess I would just like to bring someone in who can bring some respect to the franchise. The owner is a scumbag and that won’t change for a while. It’d be nice if we had a GM to off-set that a bit.
I doubt we will ever really sell picks
this being the only year possible to get maximum cap space. DTS has to love draft picks, the rookie scale contracts provide cheap talented labor. EJ was 3 million a year is a bargain, Baron for 12 million is not.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
The players led the resurgence of USA Basketball
Jerry Colangelo’s, like Larry Brown’s, best days are likely long behind them. Give him credit though, 20 years ago he traded for Charles Barkley.
Plus Colangelo is more of an owner than a GM. If you can replace Sterling with J-Co, I’ll here you out. But Colangelo spending Sterling’s money? Doesn’t seem reasonable.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Remember, when the Suns started as a franchise in 1968, Jerry Colangelo came over from a still-new Chicago Bulls franchise (he was their head scout), and became their general manager, and eventually the lead owner in 1987. Even with no championships, the Suns are the still one of the winningest franchises in NBA history (they have the fourth-best all-time win percentage), and the Colangelos (Jerry and his son Bryan) had a lot to do with that. With that said, even though Jerry (and Bryan) is gone, he’s very much identifiable with the Phoenix Suns, much like Red Auerbach with the Celtics…him working for Donald Tokowitz Sterling will never happen.
Younger guys
I’m wondering who the leaders might be of the next generation. Assume that the Jerrys, West and Colangelo, are too old. Larry Brown is no spring chicken.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Yea I don't know of any
besides Warkentein. Which is why he and Colangelo are the two I mentioned. One would bring respect, the other would bring a fresh perspective.
I’m definitely on board for the new wave of “geeks” as Henry Abbott likes to say. I just wouldn’t know who that would be. Nor do I think Sterling is savvy enough to hire someone like that.
You would need an ex-player with a "geek" personality
That’s what spurred the SABR age in baseball. Beane was hired by Oakland (former player but also a scout at the time) and was given a directive to cut costs like crazy. He implemented the system now known as Moneyball in MLB. Beane was drafted by the Mets out of high school and signed, but he was offered a scholarship from Stanford and would have attended if he hadn’t already given NY the verbal commitment. He was a former player, but he also happened to be a really smart dude.
Basically, the only way it happens for the Clips is if they hire someone (like an ex player) who happens to understand the advanced statistics world, and he hires his own little geeks as assistants to the GM. The Clippers would have to luck into it. No way they are targeting one of Morey’s assistants or something.
by Michael White on Mar 10, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if Olshey is targeting someone
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Actually
given KA’s story I’m starting to think Olshey will be the permanent GM. He was the go to guy for this year according to the article.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
I looked up and saw
113-87 with nothing but a mission statement as far as a plan.
Shouldn’t Office Space have killed silliness like mission statements? Who believes in that stuff?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Tom Peters?
Loved Office Space.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 10, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Having said that...
Good riff on the “with all due respect” opener by LD on Curb this year. “Having said that” (something about how Jax was so wonderfully prescient about Dunleavy and we should just listen to his wisdom and never dispute his arguments), Jax is obnoxious and he may be right to a certain degree but somehow we sorta feel about him the way he feels about Dunleavy. No, that’s too harsh. With all due respect, having said that after having said that, I take it back. But still.
Whatever
I just want the Clippers to put a good product out there
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
In the history of the Clippers, nobody tried harder
to put a better product on the floor. Now we may be back to the old guard. Hope not.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
This is where you and I disagree
The fact that he tried hard just isn’t enough IMO
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Trying hard is not enough
But you refuse to look at the history and give credit where it is due. Your expectations are unreasonable, because, at the end of the day, DTS is the owner, and his only foil is now gone.
Destination unknown.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Nice reply
I tried to work through some of your argument on the other thread. And you’re right on the basics: it’s about whether this will make the Clips better. It definitely will. I’m not down with the backsliding argument right now.
I’m actually more intrigued by madglove’s note, perhaps following SP somehow, that it’s worth wondering about the timing. Something specific might have prompted the move at this point.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Potentially bigger picture questions about the NBA
So Olshey came to be a Clippers employee via a player talent agency of which Falk was a major player. Previously he was an actor. (Now he’s acting like an acting GM?)
Soon after the trade for Cassell happened, a Falk client.
So the Brand deal went “bad” in an atmosphere where a former Falk agent was working for the Clippers, the Clippers had just done Cassell a favor by cutting him loose (did Olshey agitate for this?) and the Clippers targeted the exact free agent Brand wanted.
Was Olshey brought on to appease the bad feelings over matching Brand’s RFA year?
Worldwide Wes is going to be an agent for coaches now?
This side of the NBA is very very dirty.
Well, Dunleavy went to the wrong Carolina for school to be part of the in crowd.. Maybe now the Clippers are playing the meta-political game. Though if Olshey was part of the buyout of Cassell, it hasn’t gotten them anything so far.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Either way it is all Dunleavy's fault
Right?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
LOL
The fact that I have a cold right now is Dunleavy’s fault.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
What I've enjoyed is
now that Dunleavy was fired (as head coach) you can see where the blame has started going and its heavily on Baron Davis. Baron is now responsible for everything that plagues the Clippers. If other people miss shots, its Baron’s fault. The new blame chart goes something like this:
1) Baron
2) Kaman
…..
10) Eric Gordon
……
590) Deandre Jordan
I don’t include Sterling because most people understandably don’t blame Sterling since there is no fun in that. You can call for Baron to be waived, but calling for Sterling to step down is so unreasonable that there is no point.
by Michael White on Mar 10, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
To be fair
I blamed Baron Davis and suggested trading him ASAP at about game 3 mark last season, but then it was actually his fault.
Someone said something crazy in response like “you can’t trade the players”. I don’t remember who it was but its certainly an absurd thing to say.
I have backed off Davis this season because he was doing fine. Not great or meeting expectations, but fine.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Yes, and you realized that MDSr traded for him so
you couldn’t really keep up the “trade BD” mantra and continue in your quest to defend MDSr at all costs.
Something had to give.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
We didn't trade for him
we signed him a free agent.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, realized that after I posted
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
How do we know this?
Wasn’t Sr. a figurehead?
Can I sum up your position thus: all bad moves were made by Dunleavy, all good moves were made by someone else?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
At that point it was MDSr - see Falk
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Fake but inaccurate?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
LOL Whoa
“you couldn’t really keep up the "trade BD" mantra and continue in your quest to defend MDSr at all costs.”
This is pure fantasy, of course, as is most of your positions you are attempting to run with today.
The “mantra” stayed up as long as he played poorly. When he played well enough, it stopped.
Thanks for being part of the braying idiots who got the plug on the season pulled early on us this year. It looks like it has made you very popular.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
This has been a tough couple of months for you
I actually feel sorry for you. Your hero has been summarily excised.
One day you’ll realize that this is the dawning of a new, better era for the Clippers. Oh, and I didn’t pull the season – your hero did it to himself.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
"dawning of a new, better era"
Remains to be seen. I am hopeful, but not convinced. It could very easily go the other way.
Neil Oleshay…inspiring!
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
You're right - it could go the other way
Not sure how much worse it could get.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Those that forget the past
are doomed to repeat it…..
It could get IMMENSELY worse….obviously you have forgotten much of the Clippers past.
Just because MDsr is gone doesn’t mean all is right in Clipperland. Let’s have this conversation at the end of next season and see where it takes us.
I would love for the Clips to be “better” next season, but as we all know, funny things happen around here, and it could be worse….a lot worse.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Pretty much right
Our two most established players get all the blame, our two youngest get a free pass on everything.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
my point was that Gordon is starting to move his way up towards being the guy to blame. He’s a good player, so naturally people will start bagging on him. And, even though he’s young, he doesn’t have the eye of the tiger that DJ has. He doesn’t celebrate after a dunk, or scream, or bang his chest— leading people to believe that he doesn’t have the spirit of a winner.
by Michael White on Mar 10, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yep agreed
well there is definitely a double standard. Kaman can have a 20-10 night but people nitpick, DJ has a 10-7 night and people wet themselves.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
One guy is a project who is learning how to play, the other is someone who needs to be one of the best players on the team. I don’t see the problem in not blaming a project like DJ for our problems.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
Me either
But Kaman gets more than his fair share of criticism because he’s asked to play beyond his capabilities for this team. He’s a solid starter being asked to do more (at least on offense) than he really can. It’s easy to see his shortcomings, but very few centers could live up to the standards some of us seem to expect out of him. I’m confident Kaman will look much better next season if Griffin and a new small forward take some of the offensive load off him. Like Ilgauskas in his prime, you can’t build a winning team around him, but he can certainly contribute to a winner.
The guy to blame
Kind of interesting to see what’s happening with Gordon, but the comparison I would make would be to Al Thornton. Basically, it seems that when you first see a guy you hope that he could be special and great and you break down his game and give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he’s going to get better. We were all very much in love with Thornton around here when Patterson was let go and he started putting up big games, going over the 30 point barrier, and it was fun to watch what he was going to do during yet another lost season. Then he didn’t make progress his next year, although he was productive, but he didn’t surpass his rookie year, and it was another messed up season. This year, the sharks (us) were swimming around him from the very beginning, and we all thought it was highly likely he was going to be the weak link. it all happened pretty quickly.
I think that Gordon has a more well-rounded game than Thornton. But he’s not a savior, and he has some limitations. I really hope he doesn’t turn into a Thornton, and I don’t think that there’s any chance that he will. But we had very high expectations going into this year, and we’re still in the process of adjusting them.
Kaman vs. DJordan is interesting. We’ve been pretty patient with Kaman. I think that allows us to stay critical and look at the smaller flaws. When Kaman played good games in his second year, back before the Nation was formed, I think people were appreciative. But Kaman’s situation was more complicated because he was anointed the starter and getting big minutes from the very beginning.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 10, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
I liked al thornton still but clearly recognized his short comings.
by Takebb909 on Mar 10, 2010 6:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Thornton is a good one
People were blaming him earlier this season for everything, even when his replacement (Butler) was certainly worse (at least at the time.)
by Michael White on Mar 10, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
I totally agree about EJ
I’m a huge fan, but he hasn’t lived up to my expectations. I haven’t seen him make any improvements from his impressive rookie season. Hopefully he doesn’t follow Al.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Mar 10, 2010 9:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Olshey has been with the team for awhile
He’s been with the team since 2003 and moved up the ranks from there.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 10, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
To me it just means another lost season coming up.
I’m not a Dunleavy fan but I think this move should’ve been done early in the season so that a new coach and GM could help establish team identity and chemistry. Now with a new coach, GM, and players it’s going to take next season just to right the ship. So I say good move, bad timing.
"Excellence...is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle
With MDsr out
is the “door still open” for a Camby return?
assuming the trade was done with a majority stake from MDsr than Olshey
this was never a realistic possiblity imo
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 11, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
It's clear and obvious that Sterling knows something that no one else knows at this point
Aside from sucking, that is, he knows this: he’s got options. Plenty of. Dunleavy wore off on everyone, from the players to the owner to even himself. Happened to him in Milwaukee and in Portland, and it happened again now. Alas, he is a better coach than a GM, IMO. He’s better off gone.
So, what comes next? What is that thing that Sterling knows? Well, we can only guess. One of the guesses is Larry Brown coming in and doing his thing. I’m sorry, but I can’t help but think how AWFUL Larry’s stint in NY was, even though he is striving in Charlotte. Most likely is that Jordan keeps him around. But maybe Jordan himself has different plans for a coach who might be available very soon (PHIL JACKSON). If that’s the case, Larry is free to come to the Clippers, and he will have more control than even Dunleavy, and more trust coming from Sterling. I’d like to know why he left after 2 years in the first place, though…
Anyways, Sterling’s head is a different kind of head, so who knows what he has planned, but I dare to say, it won’t be bad. He could turn this franchise around, finally. Will he be courtside by his team at every game if he lands, say, Lebron and LB, a la Jerry Jones?
totally. and that is what he wants the baddest: to show off.
Chupa! Chupa!
by DonaldSterlingSucks on Mar 10, 2010 4:05 PM PST reply actions
with talent, I mean real talent
Any team can be successful…I mean good solid cohesive talent that plays hard…you dont neccessarily need an other worldy coach
by JJClipperfan on Mar 10, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
plus, the knicks
have been awful many times in their franchises history I mean if Larry Brown had some great players and still had a horrible stint then yes I will bite but if not then well, its all about the talent
by JJClipperfan on Mar 10, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
at any rate, it was fun seeing the clippers the #1 topic on PTI and around the horn. slow news day? maybe.
plaschke really went to bat for the team on around the horn, but then it seems like he’s always had a soft spot for the clips. for the most part i’ve heard good things and kudos about the move and the team’s preparations for the summer.
by Joe Wolf's Mullet on Mar 10, 2010 4:09 PM PST reply actions
Better to axe him now if they had no plans for him to be part of building next year. I guess Jax was right and I was wrong, I thought Dunleavy was expected to be the architect for 2010/2011. I’m glad I was wrong, time to start over, just hope they pick the right person. I’ll thank Dunleavy for the practice facility and nothing else. His penchant for blaming everyone but himself for the teams failing got old real quick with me.
Patience is for those who die waiting for something to happen
really...
it’s quite amazing how many of you are disgusted at the way Dunleavy was let go…it shoud’ve happened a long time ago! Who cares if we let him know? Honestly? Its time to move on
and cut the bs about not being able to lure coaches
because we are “unstable”? Hello!? If they are getting paid millions of dollars do they really care? I think NOT
DTS is a bum
From everything I’ve read and heard on TV radio etc, nobody has anything decent to say about DTS. The possibilities would be endless if people respected our owner, but unfortunately that’s not the case.
Given DTS’s track record nothing suggests that he will overpay to get a top notch guy in here.
I agree that mdsr had to go, but Im not optimistic about dome savior like colangelo or brown coming to town.
by The Blake Griffin Era on Mar 10, 2010 9:44 PM PST via mobile reply actions
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