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Phoenix 127 - Clippers 101 - Random Thoughts on an Ugly Loss

I don't really have the stamina or perhaps the focus to do a major analysis of this loss.  The Clippers were ahead by one at halftime, but the Suns spanked them in the second half.  And not one of those mild, swats on the year that no one notices.  This was a public spanking, like the good old days.  Like you're in the grocery store with your mom in 1971 and you're give her some lip and she puts you over her knee and spanks you right then and there. 

The Clippers make teams look so very good, you wonder how they could possibly ever lose.  Why do the Suns have 24 losses?  How can it be possible?  They can get any shot they want, and even when they take bad shots, the shots go in.  Of course, the Clippers also make the Spurs and Hornets and several other teams look like NBA champs, so obviously it says more about the Clippers than it does about those other teams.  But still, it's hard to imagine anyone beating the Suns the way they shot in the second half.

Star-divide

In that second half, the Suns outscored the Clippers 70-43.  That's ugly.  They scored 39 points in the third quarter when they broke the game open.  So that game LA lost in Phoenix last week, when it was close at halftime but Chris Kaman got kicked out on the first play of the second half and we wondered how the game might have turned out if Kaman had played?  You don't have to wonder anymore, now we know.

On to the random thoughts:

  • The story lines are the story lines, so there's bound to be overlap, but did anyone else notice an unusually high correlation between the Clips Nation game preview and various Fox Sports commentary tonight?  Dain Blanton specifically used the term 'mixed bag' regarding the three earlier meetings, he spoke of the Suns being a game out of home court advantage (a point Milph spoke of later as well), Milph made a big point about Channing Frye's three point output, specifically talking about him being fourth in the league in makes, etc. etc.  They even had a graphic prepared comparing the future outlook for the two franchises.  There are a finite number of interesting things to talk about of course, but I think we know where these guys are doing at least some of their research.  (I'm not mad - I'm proud.  Dain is a great guy and an avid reader of the site, and Milph have always been complimentary of Clips Nation to me.  Maybe a shout out, or at least air quotes next time, Dain.)
  • Speaking of TV graphics, one near the end of the telecast really caught my eye:  "The Suns have beaten the Clippers 8 Straight (including 11 of 12)."  Huh?  How does that work?  You could say "8 straight (AND 11 of 12)" or "11 of 12, (including 8 straight)", but the way they worded it is an impossibility, as neither 11 nor 12 could actually be included in 8.  A few of those would pretty much have to be excluded. 
  • I've made a big deal this season about the fact that neither Tim Duncan nor Tony Parker has played a minute of fourth quarter basketball against the Clippers this season.  Well, I can't be bothered to check all of this, but I know off the top of my head that Steve Nash hasn't played a minute in the fourth quarter of these last two LAC-PHO games, and I strongly suspect he took the fourth off on Christmas also.  For Nash and the Suns, having the Clippers roll over and die twice in the course of a week has been an FSM-send.  Gentry would love to limit Nash's minutes given his age and gimpy back, but can't afford to as they battle for playoff position.  The Clippers are almost like a day off.  Nash played 41 minutes against the Spurs on Sunday - he played 29 and 27 in the two games against the Clippers.
  • Chris Kaman and Baron Davis come in for frequent criticism among some Clipper fans, but it's worth noting that when Kim Hughes took them out just five minutes into the second half it was still a game with the Clippers down 7 with the ball, and by the time they returned it was over.  The Suns went crazy the rest of the way, including a 16-1 run at one point.  Baron was actually breakeven in plus/minus in a 26 point loss.  It's an imperfect stat of course, but it tells you something.
  • Speaking of Kaman, I'm almost certain that there are all kinds of unique things about the complete absence of a 30 point game from his resume.  Highest season scoring average without a 30 point game, most career points for a double digit scorer without a 30 point game, stuff like that.  I haven't quite figured out how to structure the query in basketball-reference.com (it's tough to combine career data and game data in the same query), and I'm not digging through every box score to figure it out, but I'll come up with something.  With 18 in the first half against the characteristically porous Phoenix defense, I really thought this was going to be the night.  But the Clippers only managed to get him 4 shots in the second half in his limited minutes (limited by Hughes' new 'rest him early' subsitution pattern and the premature onset of garbage time).
  • Speaking of Baron, he and Steve Nash had eerily similar lines in this game.  They were each 1 for 5 from the field; they each had 2 defensive rebounds and 1 steal.  Baron played 25 minutes, Nash 27.  Nash had 13 assists, Baron 11.  Baron had 1 turnover, Nash 2.  Seems like this game might have been lost elsewhere.
  • There are lots of reasons the Clippers fell apart in the second half, but one of them was lazy passing.  In the third quarter, especially during the 16-1 run, they threw multiple lackadaisical passes that didn't have any urgency at all.  They just kind of tossed the ball.  It was actually a good game overall from a turnover standpoint with only 13 total, but almost half of those came in the decisive third quarter when the Clippers lost their focus.
  • One of the third quarter turnovers was a call against Rasual Butler for setting a pick out of bounds, a violation by the letter of the NBA rulebook.  Ralph joked that he sees that call about once a year, and that seems about right to me as well - it's almost never called.  Here's the thing (and this really drives me completely crazy):  Sool wasn't out of bounds on the play.  Eli Roe blew the call.  How in FSM's name do you make a once a year call AND GET IT WRONG?  You're telling me, you went out of your way to dust off that page of the rulebook, and it wasn't even the right call?  That kind of thing makes me nuts.  I know, refs are humans and they make mistakes.  But it's one thing to get a charge/block wrong - bodies are on the floor, you have to blow the whistle, maybe you didn't get a good look, you get it wrong under pressure; it happens, I get it.  But 5 seconds into the shot clock, 30 feet off the ball, you're going to pick a nit and there wasn't even a nit there in the first place?  This is the kind of stuff that makes people think refs have agendas.
  • Milph made a point late in the game that I've made on several occasions - that a green light from the coach can give a player the confidence to be a better shooter.  They were referring on this Suns team to Frye and Jared Dudley of course.  Then Smith said something that frankly didn't feel true:  he said that Quentin Richardson had a career year shooting the three when he played for the Suns.  I doubted that was in fact the case, so I looked it up.  Turns out, over the course of 10 NBA seasons, Q's three point percentage his one year in Arizona of .358 is only very slightly better than his career percentage of .356.  In fact, it is only his fifth best season percentage-wise shooting the three ball.  Sure, he led the league in makes that season - but he also led the league in attempts.  It's not news that if you have a green light to shoot more threes, you'll shoot more threes, nor that if you shoot more threes you'll make more threes.  What we're wondering is whether the green light makes you a BETTER shooter, a la Frye (.286 before PHO, .429 with PHO) or Dudley (.245 before PHO, .424 with PHO).  If you're reading this Smith, you airballed that Q reference.
  • Do the Clipper players know what the clear path rule is or do they not?  If I were an NBA coach, I would run a clear path practice drill every day until my players had it right, and then I would fine any player that screwed it up in a game.  It's a definable situation, the penalty to your team for getting it wrong is high, you are a professional basketball player and need to know the rules - STOPPING GIVING CLEAR PATH FOULS! 
  • I started to turn the game off several times.  I didn't start watching until 10 PM, it was over early, I knew I had a recap to write, I was sleepy.  But for some reason I kept watching to the bitter end.  I don't know why I didn't bail earlier, but for the last few minutes I know what kept me there - it was the bizarre Milph trivia question concerning the only MVP who had never been to an NBA Finals.  Ralph actually had me going, for a long time, that he didn't know that Mike was talking about Nash.  I actually stayed through a commercial, to see how the whole thing would end, and of course shortly after that I realized that Ralph was sandbagging.  It's a grand Clippers tradition - the inane garbage time banter of the blow out, and Milph are the masters of it.  Of course they got in trouble with it earlier this season with l'affaire Haddadi, but the commentary is never dull, even when the game is excruciating.  Speaking of Milph trivia, as a longtime Suns fan, I got the Walter Davis question immediately.

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Smith didn't airball the Q Rich reference

If you look at Q’s career 3pt%, his best years also correlated with the years he shot the most (and that year he left the league in 3ptm was his 2nd best 3pt% of his career at the time).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richaqu01.html

Every year that Q Rich made over 1.5 3ptm a game he shot at least .352%, the years he was under 1.5 3ptm/game he shot .331, .308, .340, .322 (each of those years he made 1.2 3ptm or less). So when he shot more threes, he also made a greater percentage than usual.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Mar 4, 2010 1:34 AM PST reply actions  

Was that his point?

I took his point to be that the Phoenix system, where the light is always green, never yellow, certainly never red, brought out career years in people. It was such a bad game, I’m not going back to the DVR to get a quote, but I’m fairly certain he made a specific reference to Q’s single season in Phoenix being far and away his best one shooting the three, and somehow this crazy outlier – that’s clearly not true, as your data points out.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 1:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah

not sure where he was going with it, I thought he was just referring to shooters tend to shoot better if they know they won’t get yanked for missing. I’m guessing its kind of like base runners in baseball who have the green light to steal bases.

FA in 2010.

by ClipperChuck on Mar 4, 2010 2:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I totally agree with his overall point....

I just thought he overstated the “Q in Phoenix” thing

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

This game was coached horribly

Steve alluded to how the Clippers rest early policy led to this game ending early, but twice the Suns went on huge runs, and twice it was while the bench was in the game. The bench of Blake, Outlaw and Jordan was horrible and was giving you absolutely nothing. That group comes in in the first and the Suns go on a run though the Clipper starters were able to claw back into the game. The decision to take Baron AND Kaman out with 6 minutes to go in the third was maddening. The Clippers starters were pretty solid. Kaman, Baron and EJ played very well, Butler played well and Gooden was okay. Blake, Outlaw and Jordan were useless, and even though Skinner, Mardy Collins and Bobby Brown suck too, they should have gotten some minutes anyway to try to do something useful.

Deandre Jordan was really bad. He didn’t really do anything well last night even when he was fresh. But with Smith out and Hughes opting for only a 3 “big” rotation, Jordan got so much worse the longer he was on the floor. People have understandably questioned whether Jordan would have anything to gain from playing in the D League, as he could conceivably dominate the competition. While I don’t doubt that, Jordan looked last night like he was absolutely out of shape to be called upon to play the minutes he did. The D League might not be the best competition, but at least (had he played there this year) he could have built up his stamina.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 7:48 AM PST reply actions  

glad someone else noticed about deandre...i mentioned it during the game thread and didnt see much about it

I love him normally but he stunk out loud last night. No energy, out of synch, looked disinterested, and was huffing and puffing when there was a dead ball. Normally he brings it when he gets to play so maybe just chalk it up to a bad night. Gooden was pretty terrible too, so its no wonder we got worked on the boards.

I know how you feel about the clips making some teams look amazing. Here in san antonio everyone has been crying all year how mediocre and disappointing the spurs have been, and they’ve been very beatable. Oh but let the clippers take the floor with them and they turn back the clock to their title years…its pretty frustrating.

by Joe Wolf's Mullet on Mar 4, 2010 9:36 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Gordon is fed up with all the bullshit

Gordon had a great first half, stopping Nash cold and scoring 14 points,four threes and 5 for 6.He didn.t touch the bal;l for the first 6 minutes of the second half .Perrin look at the tapes. Hughes lets Davis do what he wants and there is no discipline on the floor.The move to bring in Novak was great not that he was 0-3 his defense is terrible. Does this team know the word picks and pass

by Vegas Mike on Mar 4, 2010 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

and one TO

he is just now the scapegoat. I know there are a few of us still on his side MW. But we are getting outnumbered for no good reason. I find this really weird considering people keep saying Blake is better when Baron has outperformed him for about 5 games now lol

by bacek on Mar 4, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Perrin?

Did we go to High School together, because those are the only people who call me Perrin. It’s Mr. Perrin, sir to you.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I was really going for a drill sargeant thing...

but things for making it even more awkward

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree Vegas Mike, Gordon's first shot attempt in the 3rd came at the 5:18 mark. This was after BD was substituted out.

I rewatched the 3rd quarter and tracked our possessions. Out of the Clipper’s 28 possessions in the 3rd, EJ got 9 touches. Now remember the Clippers only scored 18 points in the 3rd quarter. Well, on those 9 touches for EJ, who had 14 points at half-time on 5-6 shooting, the Clippers scored 13 of their 18 points. One would think that the team would continue to go to EJ with his hot start, that wasn’t the case at all.

Here are the 9 touches for EJ in the 3rd quarter.

-EJ passed the ball to Butler for a 18ft jumper which he made and was fouled on. (3 points, assist for EJ)

-EJ drove the basketball passed to Butler who found Kaman for the lay-up. (2 points, “hockey assist” for EJ).

-EJ drove to find Gooden at the elbow, who then passed the ball to Butler for a missed 2 pt.

-EJ made an entry pass to Kaman in the post, who had the ball knocked out of bounds.

-EJ was involved in a pick and roll w/ Jordan, EJ made a skip pass to Gooden who missed the 2 pt.

-EJ got the out of bounds pass and drove from one end to the other for a 15 ft jumper (2 points for EJ).

-EJ was involved with a pick and roll w/ Gooden, EJ made a pass to Gooden of the roll, who found Blake for 3pt field goal (3 points, “hockey assist” for EJ).

-EJ got the ball on the wind and missed a 3 pt field goal.

-EJ made a pass off the dribble to Butler for a 3 pt field goal (3 points, assist for EJ).

HVYDRT007-"EJ's value is diminishing Game By Game"

Thanks for making my day HVYDRT, lmao!

by NBAFAN8 on Mar 4, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Good stuff. I taped the game and watched it this morning. I was surprised how few touches EJ got 3rd quarter and appreciate your digging for the details.

by Mike Wr on Mar 4, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I did some math today...haha

Eric Gordon is getting just over 12 shot attempts a game this season, but what about when he gets 15 or more shot attempts in a game?

Well EJ has 14 games this season in which he has got atleast 15 shot attempts. In those 14 games, he is shooting 46% from the floor and averaging 21 points per game.

I think those numbers say that with his scoring ability, he should no doubt be getting atleast 15 shot attempts per game.

HVYDRT007-"EJ's value is diminishing Game By Game"

Thanks for making my day HVYDRT, lmao!

by NBAFAN8 on Mar 5, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Hitting all the points

Really nice work for a late wrapup after a blow out. Have to say that after watching the third quarter meltdown, after a well-played first half, I moved pretty quickly through the 4th, not even hanging around to see if Novak could get a shot and hit it.

My favorite note above is the Kaman 30 point barrier. And you address it perfectly—he has to be creating some kind of Kaman standard that will never be broken. Never by Robin Lopez, for instance, who already has his 30 point game, courtesy of the Clips. When Kaman was going good in the first half, with the fact that Lopez had a 30 point game and Kaman doesn’t, I really thought this could be the night.

Yeah, this BD/Kaman for only half of the first and third, early rotation thing really didn’t work very well, did it. But it does seem like it might be a problem playing the Suns, and not so bad against other teams. Not a bad night for the first half. Oh well.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 4, 2010 10:06 AM PST reply actions  

I hadn't realized this about Kaman.

I looked up some stats and prior to this year his career high was 26 pts (GSW 07/08). Last year his highest was 25 pts. which he only did once. This year he’s gone for 27 (DAL) and 29 (HOU) and scored twenty or more 32 times. Not bad – but no 30 points. Must be some kind of mental block.

by eastie Rich on Mar 4, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Or it has something to do with the coach sitting him down with 6 minutes left in the 3rd when he already has 20 points and then not returning until the game is effectively over.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

Bad substitution. The way it goes sometimes. Can’t really say, however, that many coach’s decisions have been holding Kaman back from getting 30, as opposed to missing easy shots by the bunch. Good to note that Kaman was flowing pretty nicely last night.

by citizen zhiv on Mar 4, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Good start

How many total 20+ games in his 7 year career? (We’re on Kaman Year 7, right? That’s a long road.) It used to be a rarity. What’s amazing is that now we expect it; it’s not especially difficult for him to do it. Which says two things, that’s it’s that much more remarkable that he’s never made it to 30, and also why did it take so long for him to become a more efficient scorer.

Not to get any sort of reverse mojo going, but as Kaman puts another unique season under his belt and gets up there in Clipper longevity, is it possible he could play his entire career as a Clipper? Hard to even imagine and contemplate. Is there a Kaman 5.0?

by citizen zhiv on Mar 4, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions  

A few numbers

The money stat, something along the lines of “only player in NBA history to have more than 50 20 point games without a 30 point game” will be elusive. I have no good way to get that data that I can think of, so short of searching player by player, I just don’t know. But that’s the money stat, and my gut tells me that he’s the record holder.

Here’s what we do know….

As citizen eR says, he’s gone for 20 32 times this season, which is more than half of the games. One thing for certain – he is the only player averaging 19 this season without a 30 point night. Everyone else has one this season, not just for their career.

Kaman by year had zero 20 point nights as a rookie, 4 in his second season, 10 his third (the playoff year), 4 his fourth (and we’ll recall he did drop off), 14 in 07-08, aka Kaman 2.0 before he got hurt, 2 last season, and the 32 this season. That makes 66 total, so he’s closing in on the same number this season as his other 6 seasons combined.

The other interesting stat about him is that, owing partly to injury and partly to an off year, he went almost a full year (from Nov. 19 2008 until Oct. 28 2009) without a single 20 point outing.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Cmon

There’s only been 591 players to have a 30 point game since 86-87. A little excel, a little cross-reference.

Its there, if you want it bad enough.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Wussies

For all centers since the 86-87 season, Kaman ranks 23rd in number of 20 point games with 66.

All of the centers with more 20 point games have at least one 30 point game.

Elusive!

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Small correction

Tied for 27th.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Since 86-87 the rankings for all players with the most 20 point games without the 30 point game is:

Charles Oakley 70
Chris Kaman 66

If this is a money stat, where is my money?

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Your getting closer.

That’s the one I was looking for. This had me thinking, of all the lousy scoring centers in the league, those with a decent career, who could I beat Kaman with finding they had scored 30? So I checked Ben Wallace, he never scored 30, but he’s tied with Kaman for a career high 29.

Which also had me thinking about Shaq. I was at the game where he scored 61 (w/23 rebounds) and I distinctly recall him being pulled with about 7 – 10 minutes left and wondering why Jackson didn’t give him a shot at 80. But, I just looked at the box score and it said he played 45 minutes. Did anyone else see the game, am I mistaken? That night he was matched by Michael Olowokandi, his numbers, 2pts 4 rbs. Also, his career high was 30 points.

Too far off topic?

by eastie Rich on Mar 4, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nothing about this can really be off topic

Since its a meaningless stat. It is funny that Kaman comes out at #2.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

And obviously

Kaman is almost certain to pass Oak and become #1, at least for a time.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

No way

Kaman gets 33 on Friday. Book it.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Heh

Probably, if he is reading this.

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

A little confused on Ben Wallace

I have him at a career high of 22.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Wallace scored 29 pts with 16 rbs

in the 04/05 season in a playoff game vs. Phil. Still counts as a career high though, no?

by eastie Rich on Mar 4, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

That's pretty amazing....

I’ve been looking at regular season only. I think they usually make a distinction – regular season high, playoff high. Obviously Kaman has never scored 30 in a playoff game, so it doesn’t alter the basic quest much. I may double check Oakley and Avery Johnson.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

You're so money and you don't even know it

So now we’re on the watch for 71, for the all time record. Gives us something to do. Of course Oakley was never really a scorer, but simply played a ton of games 1282 career, more than three times as many as Kaman’s 389. I’m actually a little surprised to note that Oak averaged almost between 14 and 15 a game on three separate occasions early in his career.

There’s a big problem with this right now unfortunately. Oakley’s career started in 85-86, and BR.com starts in 86-87. He averaged about 10 as a rookie, so we can assume that he has a few more 20 pointers in those 77 games he played as a rookie. Standard deviation might indicate 4 or 5, I should think. Next stop, Bulls media guides. It’s worth it for one season.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

An unforeseen development...

Charles Oakley scored 30 twice during his rookie season, 35 Mar. 15 86 in an OT game vs. the Bulls, and 31 Feb. 25 86 versus the Sixers. He could have done it more than that – the media guide I found online only has the high scorer, so if Jordan had scored 32 and Oakley 31, I wouldn’t know. Seems unlikely, since he averaged less than 10 that season, but the fact is he’s out of the contest and Kaman is the all time champ for 20 point games without a 30 point game since 86-87.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Mar 4, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, the drama

Should we cheer for Kaman here, or boo? I was looking forward to the countup to 71. What will we do with ourselves now?

Maybe Chris will make it to 100.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I was only half kidding about the mental block,

wait a minute, we’re not talking about the way Dunleavy coached are we?

With Chris it’s easy to imagine he might know when he’s closing in on thirty then just fumbles the ball.

by eastie Rich on Mar 4, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Ya, I’m taking last nights game surprisingly tough. Maybe it was because I was at the game, or maybe because the decision to take out Kaman and Baron seemed so stupid in real time. Also, my buddy and I were discussing Kaman getting 30. I was sure he was getting it last night. He was dominant.

I’ll cut back on the whining for now.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

The Suns are a strange team

we dont have the personel to match up with them,,,,,, glad we only play them 4 times a year. haha Bring on the Dunder

by big0lbad on Mar 4, 2010 10:18 AM PST reply actions  

Randomly lost in ugly thoughts

My G-d, that sucked.

Somebody threaded that benching Baron and Kaman in the 3rd was Hughes way of making some sort of point. If so, it was lost on me. Anybody here want to interpret?

How do we go from looking good to looking awful so quickly? The collapse was so quick and overwhelming, I lost my will to analyse.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 10:57 AM PST reply actions  

Unless the point Hughes was trying to make was

“I am completely unqualified to be a head coach in the NBA” it didn’t make any sense.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

You know, where we really lost it

was a few minutes later in the 3rd, when Gooden was taken out as well. At that point, we were only down by nine. It took about two more minutes, with DJ and Outlaw our bigs, before we were down by 16. I just checked this out on popcornmachine.

Q: Why would you take Baron, Kaman, and Gooden all out in a home game that was close but noticably starting to slip?

A: Because we were trying to lose?

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Inexcusable at home

We clearly over-performed in the first half. But that 2nd half reminded of that Laker beatdown, just not quite as bad since PHX defense isn’t as good.

A lot is riding on Griffin’s shoulders. We don’t just need competitors, we need them to be better than the other guys.

by ghost_ride on Mar 4, 2010 11:29 AM PST reply actions  

What does an anti-clear path foul drill look like?

Next 9:
OKC, @UTA, @ORL, @MIA, @CHA, @SAS, NOH, MIL, SAC

Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball

by John R on Mar 4, 2010 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

Is it time to look again at tanking things?

A blasphemous thought, I tend to believe. There are good reasons to keep playing hard. I think of good work habits, team morale, creating a good image for the free agents near and far, and the salary cap hit we’d take on a high lottery pick.

But then again, guys, we’re only a few games in front of a significant number of teams. I was looking at it the other day… something like 5 teams we’re just ~3 games ahead of.

If Lebron wants to come, then we could give the pick away (Hell, PAY someone to take him off our hands!). But when he doesn’t, it would be really cool to have both Griffin and a hot rookie entering camp.

Food for thought.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

The thought of Wall playing next to Griffin

makes me almost as happy as the thought of Lebron coming, although do I dare dream of a way that we get both. That would be the best day ever.
Wall+Gordon+Lebron+Griffin+Kaman= championship.

" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Just a pingpong ball away?

Wall would run us something around $4.5M, I think.

Let’s say we drop DJ at this point.

The we’re at $37M with 5 players. Do you suppose Lebron could be lured for $13.5? Endorsements would make up the difference in a flash…

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Above he doesn’t include Baron on his lineup.

So he must be assuming Baron is moved to make the cap room.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Right...

More difficulties

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Funny thought

but if you actually wanted to trade Baron, I wonder if Memphis would want him. I know Conley has been playing much better lately, but Baron is a big time upgrade. Plus, moving Conley to the bench wouldn’t be a disaster, especially since Memphis has no depth (which will ultimately cost them the 8 seed since their starters are all averaging like 40 minutes per game.) Mayo sliding to PG no longer seems to be a viable option, besides that would leave a hole a SG. I always thought Randolph and Baron would click because Randolph has much better hands than the Clippers bigs and could handle those hot passes from Baron.

No idea if they would have the cap space, particularly after re-signing Rudy Gay.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah my dream scenario assumses

we are also miraculously able to trade Baron (just for the record I still don’t think Baron is a horrible player he is just not consistent enough). But hey we were able to trade Zbo and that was a huge contract I am sure we could find a team that would take a swing at Baron and needs a point guard.

" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

also what do you guys think the chances of

Gay getting paid a ton of money as a last resort option by a team that strikes out on the big FA. I could totally see NY not ending up with Lebron or Wade, but ending up with Bosh which would leave them enough money for another Max player and then panicking and signing Gay to a ridiculous contract. I could also see Miami doing this if they lose Wade.

" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually think there is a market for Baron

He’s no more inconsistent then every other PG in the league. I mean really, isn’t it funny that the players on the team you follow are the inconsistent ones? Maybe that has something to do with watching every game Davis plays and watching 2 games that Derrick Rose plays in.

As for Baron, I think there is a market for him now, while there wasn’t last year. He can help a team like Memphis who is a team in the hunt, has steady talent around him, and has plenty of other scorers to surround him with. That being said, I’m not actively interested in shopping Baron. He’s expensive, but that only hurts you if you needed money to be spent elsewhere and couldn’t because of his contract. That’s not the case here. And the team does need a PG if it wants to be competitive next year. I guess if you wanted to “go young” and move Baron and bring in Rubio, that would be something to consider, but that means you aren’t concerned with being competitive next year.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, it's a ping pong ball away.

I think Memphis may well be interested, and yea, if we could get Wall and Lebron, I’d be thrilled to take on Thabeet.

I mean, if we had Wall and cap space, I think we’d suddenly be favorites behind the Cavs. No?

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not that high on Rubio

I think we are better off with Blake who is experienced and seems to do a good job at making shots when needed and running the offense effectively. Anyone know what the chances that Wall might actually fall out of the first pick.

LeBron or Bust !!!!

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you not a Blake fan, or

are you that much a Rubio guy? I think it’s the latter.

I’d trade the Minni pick back to them for Rubio, as I think most of us would. I don’t think I’d want to trade Baron in the same go. This sort of thing would be worth considering if we don’t land Lebron.

We’d probably have to offer Minni more, though.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Both

I think Blake is a really nice backup. But that’s his ceiling. I really like Rubio, though I’ll admit the dude sold me on 1 game I saw of him going toe to toe with the absolutely stacked American team in the gold medal game.

I think you offer the Minny pick back for Rubio. No chance they take Baron for Rubio, obviously.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Would you do Kaman for Rubio?

I bet they’d do that deal. They need a true center and they already have a PG of the future.

by madglove on Mar 4, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Tough one

It would be hard to sign off on Kaman for Rubio. The obvious problem is that it again tears the team down to a rebuilding project as there will be two PG’s (and no matter what Baron would be shopped hard at this point) and no center, which is not good. It would also be rather humorous (in a weird way) if the Clippers in 1 year went from having a “crowded” front court to having traded away two current all stars and a useful utility man and left with the rookie who hasn’t played yet and missed his entire first season due to a knee injury. You do this trade, and you immediately have issues in the front court because you lose the only player the Clips know can score in the post.

To make a call like this, you need to be a better scout than I and you need to have a good feel for not just Rubio but Griffin too. You can do it if you think Griffin will be a star in the low post.

I want Rubio, the price on this may be a touch too high. Tough one.

by Michael White on Mar 5, 2010 7:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Has anyone said anything about Wall's stock falling?

I haven’t been keeping up with college ball… Those damn Bruins this year…

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Wall is still a lock to go #1

Though Turner is having the better season, Wall is still projected as the better pro.

So I read anyway. My college hoops watching this year pretty much begins and ends with WCC action.

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I see Gay with the Knicks, too

It’s just screaming to happen. Or with us, frankly. I hope we don’t into the frame of mind that we have to land somebody, as if our manhood were on the line. Having Rudy would be fine, but for the right price.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, funny. If they don't resign Gay or Brewer

they’ll be at $47M, w/ 10 others signed. Close to $51M w/ Brewer. Either way, to take on Baron ($13M), they’ll need to give us something back, maybe in the neighborhood of $9M. That could give us enough cap space for Lebron and Wade, esp if we wave DJ.

Lol, how does Thabeet sound? He and Conley make up $9.7M. Maybe we could include DJ.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

or in that case

sign Lebron, use the extra money resign Gooden, Blake, and Outlaw to help make up our bench and give us some depth. Isn’t day dreaming fun
: )

" Baron for the win, BINGO!!!! The Clipers Win, The Clippers win!!! "
Ralph Lawler

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds great

If we get Wall and need to move Baron to offer a max contract for LBJ, getting Thabeet sounds great. Who cares if he’s a bust? Send him to the D-League and get him pumping some iron, maybe it’ll work out and maybe not. Doesn’t matter, not the point of the trade….

by Michael White on Mar 4, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

Wow the level of daydreaming here has really gone up a notch. Now it’s Lebron AND Wall.

Just goes to show you why teams free up cap space. It offers hope to all the fans of crappy lottery teams.

I agree btw that Baron is definitely tradeable if you’re willing to just dump him. Now ridiculous Baron hating aside, it would be silly to just dump him unless we did in fact win the lottery to draft John Wall.

by madglove on Mar 4, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

And MJ too

Comeback 2010, only this time he’ll be in his prime. And the league rewards us ten extra wins for good behavior. Although first we inherit a dozen hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place. I’m only getting started.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't want MJ

he lost two games of horse to a rookie.

LeBron or Bust !!!!

by bestclipfan on Mar 4, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Havent you guys learned anything from ZBO?

if we are lucky enough to land Wall, why MUST we trade Baron? We can play Baron as the backup 2.
Baron’s minutes= 22 @pg 13 @backup sg
Gordon minutes = 35 @sg
Wall’s minutes 26 @backup pg

Can’t we learn anything from our past? Heck, it wasn’t even a full year ago!

by bacek on Mar 4, 2010 5:07 PM PST reply actions  

Can't have something for nothing

I’ll take Griffin, Lebron and Wall for ZBo and Baron. Wouldn’t you?

Don’t short-change us on the fantasy.

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

lol i'm not

but people are under the assumption we must trade Baron if we are lucky enough to get Wall. Just want to remind people that we don’t have to trade Baron if we are lucky enough to get Wall.

by bacek on Mar 4, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

So alright, if we get Wall and keep Baron

then we have a pretty damn enviable backcourt. With Kaman and Griffin, do we need a terrific upgrade at SF anymore? Assuming no Lebron, I’m looking around for a quality glue guy at that point. It opens things up nicely.

Which brings me back to an earlier post: Might we reconsider the virtues of losing more games now? We could do as we did last night, play hard for a half, give everybody twinkies if we lead at the break, and then casually “experiment” for the rest of it. With a little focus, we could wiggle ourselves down to fourth worst overall, behind the Nets, Minni, and Golden State. Good stuff!

"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT

by SilverClip on Mar 4, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

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