Dunleavy Files for Arbitration After Clippers Withhold Pay
Well, it seems that maybe things haven't changed around here as much as we had hoped.
According to Mark Heisler writing in today's LA Times, the Clippers have stopped paying Mike Dunleavy Sr., and Dunleavy has now filed for arbitration in the dispute. This issue was first reported by David Aldridge two weeks ago, so props to DA for getting it right.
When the Clippers extended MDsr back in November of 2006, I commended the move. Taken together with other decisions made by the organization, particularly the contract extension for Chris Kaman a month earlier, I interpreted these as good signs. Not necessarily because I thought they were brilliant basketball moves in and of themselves, mind you. Interestingly with the benefit of hindsight, I was more dubious about the Kaman extension than the MDsr extension at the time. But the decisions were part of a larger trend that seemed to me to be more important than the deals themselves - the Clippers were acting like a real NBA franchise and needed to be taken seriously.
Long term contracts are the cost of doing business in the NBA, and Dunleavy's 4 year, $22M contract extension in 2006 was in line for a former Coach of the Year who had improved the team in each of his first three seasons in LA, culminating with a run to game 7 of the Western Conference playoffs. So it was worth noting at the time that the Clippers had begun behaving like grown ups in NBA-land.
Except something went wrong. The thing about signing a GUARANTEED contract is that you have to PAY IT. If you fire a guy and then stop paying him, that's what we call an UNGUARANTEED contract. And praising an organization for behaving in a professional manner and signing a coach to a guaranteed long term contract loses a little something if the organization turns around and chooses the decidedly unprofessional path of reneging on the deal.
I've heard some maintain that this is not that unusual, that NBA teams frequently get into disputes with their former coaches over money and that we therefore shouldn't make too big a deal out of this. Well, not so much... at least not as far as I can tell. Off the top of my head, I thought of two other salary disputes between a team and a former coach not involving the Clippers - Larry Brown and the Knicks, and Don Nelson and the Mavericks. And in each of those cases, the organization at least made a pretense of having a contractual position in the dispute. A little more research this morning yielded a third case of team-coach arbitration - the Warriors stopped paying Mike Montgomery a little prematurely in 2008, a dispute stemming from when he began to work for Cal. Given the number of former NBA coaches floating around out there, I'd say three cases of contract disputes is a pretty small number. Of course, it's possible I'm missing others - let me know if you know about more.
As for the Clippers, they have their own little history of these disputes. After Bill Fitch was fired in 1998, the Clippers ceased paying their former coach (sound familiar?), claiming that he was not actively looking for a new job. Fitch 64 at the time, was forced to sue the Clippers. One seldom mentioned aspect of the Fitch situation is this - the Clippers signed Fitch to a two year extension in May of 1997 and then fired him before the extension had begun. It's no wonder they were reluctant to pay, but it's the cost of doing business, however poorly you run the business.
So in case you're keeping track, that's two of the last four Clippers head coaches whom the organization has stopped paying before their full contractual obligation was met. Of course, that information isn't particularly impactful to a huge number of people. Just coaches who are considerting employment with the team. Or really anyone thinking of signing a long term contract with them. Oops.
It's no secret that the Clippers as an organization have long been dysfunctional and frankly tone-deaf, but the timing of this particular revelation is astonishing, even by their standards. Entering a summer in which they need to hire a head coach and have as much as $18M to offer to marquee free agents, it's mind-numbing that they'd create a story that reminds everyone in the NBA of what a petty and irrelevant franchise they once were, and quite possibly still are.
In fact, the last two chapters of the Dunleavy saga have seemed particularly juvenile and surreal, just like the bad old days. How else can you explain announcing the firing of a guy who worked for you for almost seven years during halftime of a game? What in the world could possibly explain the need to make that announcement in that manner? Why could that news not have kept until the next morning?
As for abruptly cutting off payments to the man, I feel compelled to point something out. While it goes without saying that the remaining $6.75M on his contract is going to sting, and that the idea of paying him for doing nothing was a major factor in his lasting through seasons of 23 and 19 wins when they should have shown him the door long ago, the simple fact is he's not costing the organization any more now than he did before. The financial issue with firing him is replacement cost, AND HE HASN'T BEEN REPLACED YET. Assistant coach Kim Hughes took over his head coaching duties (and has since been fired) while assistant General Manager Neil Olshey took over as the GM. So the Clippers have incurred exactly zero new salaries thus far as the result of severing all ties with MDsr. Which makes the decision to stop paying him more spiteful than financial, at least at this point.
It's worth noting that teams don't tend to win these disputes. They go to arbitration, and the coaches get their money - they even get interest on the withheld funds. In the midst of Nelson's battle with Cuban and the Mavs, he was pretty non-chalant about the whole thing: "I am making 5 percent on my money. That's probably better than I can do in the stock market or anything else. .... I'm not in a hurry. I'm not broke.". I'm told that MDsr's contract is iron-clad in this regard. It calls for arbitration, and covers interest and lawyer fees. Which means that the Clippers are eventually going to pay him. Which makes this situation even more bizarre. Why show the organization in this terrible light in this most important of off-seasons for no reason?
There is of course one man whose fingerprints are all over this situation, and I've somehow avoided mentioning his name to this point: Clippers owner Donald T. Sterling. When you list the positives of the Clippers situation, and ask yourself why LeBron James wouldn't consider coming to the Clippers when they have a solid core and southern California has great weather and LA is a huge media market, there's one obvious reply that just got more obvious. Donald T. Sterling is why LeBron James won't be a Clipper.
You might argue that LeBron's money won't be in dispute, that even Sterling wouldn't dream of breaching a player contract, or that the idea that LeBron wouldn't be earning his money is so far-fetched as to preclude any conceivable contract dispute. Sure, that's all more or less true. But an owner can impact a player in myriad ways beyond an individual contract, and frankly LeBron would be stupid to play for a man as erratic and boorish as Sterling. I had almost deluded myself into believing that Sterling had changed, that he wanted to win badly enough to allow others to make the important decisions and that he was committed to signing the checks he needed to sign. But there's not nearly enough evidence to support that conclusion, a long history of outlandish behavior to refute it, and these recent indications that little or nothing has in fact changed.
How does an owner impact a superstar? If you're LeBron and you ask Dan Gilbert to take on Antawn Jamison's contract to improve your chances of getting a ring, Gilbert does it - even though it'll cost about $35M in additional salary over three seasons, plus increased luxury tax bills, plus a first round draft pick. Do you have a level of confidence that Donald Sterling would do the same to help you win that ring? The guy who is stiffing his former coach for what amounts to chump change? LeBron has his choice of six or so teams who will pay him an equal amount. He can also choose to make even more with his hometown Cavs where Gilbert has bent over backwards for him. When I was delusional and believed that Sterling had either changed or been sufficiently masked as to not truly effect the process, I thought the Clippers had an outside chance at signing LeBron. Others have said from the beginning that he would never play for Donald Sterling, because he didn't have to. They were right and I was wrong. He won't sign here. Not now. You can forget it.
And if misery loves company, then Clipper fans have taken some comfort in recent years in knowing that other teams were dealing with similarly bad ownership, but with the planned sales of the Warriors and Hornets, it's going to get a little more lonely and miserable in the 'terrible ownership' camp. For 19 seasons, Chris Cohan of the Warriors has been the only NBA owner who could approach Sterling in terms of overall dysfunction and futility. George Shinn of the Hornets, accused of rape in 1997 and more or less forced out of Charlotte by the bad publicity though he was never convicted of a crime, was the only owner who could compete with Sterling (adulterer, sexual harrasser, shameless self-promoter, housing discriminator, racist, etc.) on the (alleged) scumbag scale. Both of them will be former NBA owners by the beginning of next season.
In fact, the main contenders for worst owner in basketball at this point would seem to be eccentric meddlers with super deep pockets - guys like James Dolan in New York and Paul Allen in Portland. Owners who have spent the better part of their tenures far above the luxury tax, but who have made some bad decisions along the way. That's a problem that Clipper fans would dearly love to deal with. When Sports Illustrated again named Sterling the worst owner in the NBA a year ago, it felt a little like a well-earned lifetime achievement award. Now it feels like Donald is earning it all over again.
Am I overreacting to a relatively simple revelation about a contract arbitration? Maybe. But the last thing this organization needs right now is to give journalists, broadcasters, free agents, coaching candidates and fans a reason to dust off the mantra of "Same old Clippers." For no apparent reason other than the whim of their notorious owner, that's exactly what they have done.
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More evidece that the Clippers dysfunctionality was not Dunleavy's fault
The post-Dunleavy era is off to a roaring start. I just knew firing him would fix everything and put the Clippers back on to the path of respectability from which Dunleavy derailed them.
And this certainly bodes well for attracting a new coach and GM. Why, they’ll all be lining up for a chance to go thru this madness.
Nevertheless, I’m sure the anti-Dunleavy crowd are applauding this move.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
They're too busy playing lawyer
For those keeping faint hope alive that MDSr was the primary culprit behind Clipper woes, it turns out that the team does a fine job of losing without him. - citizen zhiv
I'm not renewing my tickets
Making sure to let them no we expect this team to honor their contracts. I even wish Sterling had been scammed by Bernie Madoff now.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 21, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I was anti Dunleavy.
His contract has nothing to do with us “being pleased.” That’s a stupid statement. Dunleavy sucked as a coach and DTS sucks as an owner. Now DTS has further messed up the future of the franchise.
Go applaud Dunleavy at his next coaching gig. I’m sure he’ll do much better than he did here.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Should have offed him...
you could have been the Clipper Martyr!
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 21, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Inconceivable!
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I do not think it means what you think it means.
- Inigo Montoya
by Lawler 4ever on Apr 22, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Love that movie
One big continuing DVD cash cow for MGM
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
The requirement that MDSr must go get a job
is not a contractual requirement. It’s simply the law.
The fact that the contract has an iron-clad arbitration provision is something that is helpful to DTS rather than MDSr since it prevents MDSr from getting the breach issues in front of a jury and will dramatically cut down attorney fees.
Would be curious to know who told you about the contractual provision?
I agree with the issue about perception as stated in another post. They should just continue to pay him and after a few months, if he hasn’t gotten a job yet, start to push him.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not sure I get it
Interesting point. I’m not sure that I understand why MDSr is lawfully required to go get a job. Especially if that’s not a specific contractual requirement. Kind of like saying that a trophy divorcee has an obligation to go out and try to get married again, which would reduce the payment in her guaranteed settlement.
But what do I know about these things. And I care about them even less.
What I do know is that the chance that Lebron was going to sign with the Cips was super-teeny-tiny to begin with. This does make them smaller, I suppose. But it doesn’t matter, and isn’t worth discussing.
We also know that the Clippers will have a new coach, and they will have some new players on their roster. Will there be a single, star free agent? Perhaps, but there aren’t a whole lot of appropriate choices.
It also doesn’t appear that the Clips will have a big name, expensive coach. Again, there aren’t a lot of them out there that make sense, who would be worth the money. They need a good coach, not a name brand. We have to hope that the decision about the coach comes around sooner, rather than later, so that the draft pick and free agent efforts are part of a single whole.
I’m less concerned about the semi-pathetic, but relatively inconsequential, unnecessarily messy conclusion of the MDSr era than about what’s going to happen in the near future. That’s the scary part. We don’t want to think that the Clips are heading towards an epic meltdown, even by their low standards, but it’s very much in the realm of possibility, and more likely, for that matter, than the idea that LBJ would sign with them.
Funny how Alvin Gentry looks like a pretty good coach these days, and it seems like he would be a really good coach for a player like Baron Davis. What does that say about what we know about coaches? Gentry looked like he was a significant part of the problem in his day, setting the stage for the arrival of MDSr. The Blazers signing Camby to a pricey extension is another ironic recent development. I realize that Portland and the Clips were in very different places as regards Camby and his specific situation, but one team seems like it’s trying very hard to win, despite all sorts of adversity. And the Clips are just the opposite, creating new and different ways to lose, time after time.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The contractual / legal issue is a basic legal concept called "mitigation of damages"
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I still think Gentry is garbage
His time in LAC was laughably bad.
by Michael White on Apr 21, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
he basically rolls the ball out and says “go win the game for me, steve”.
i’m pretty sure he’s still the same baddie he was here.
by Joe Wolf's Mullet on Apr 21, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what I thought too
But it seems we might need to revise that.
It’s a good model for the “it’s the coach vs. it’s the players” argument. Gentry did his time under D’Antoni, and he’s coaching Steve Nash. He’s obviously a much better coach for the Suns than Terry Porter was.
Add to the same argument that Doc Rivers seemed like a horrible coach, routinely vilified by superCeltfan Bill Simmons, until Garnett and Ray Allen showed up. Then he became a good coach—for that particular group of players.
The players come first. But it’s important that the coach is a good fit for the players. MDSr recruited BD to play with FElton, but FElton left. MDSr was never a particularly good coach for the majority of his players, he didn’t adapt, he was a control freak.
But Baron Davis hasn’t been a good enough player. The players come first. Getting a coach who will do a good job with the players, present and future, on the Clippers will be a tricky task.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Jax are you an attorney?
Because I know something about employment law and I’m fairly certain there’s absolutely no requirement that someone has to go get another job.
But if you can point me to a statute, I’d be happy to read it.
It's not a statute
Just a basic defense / notion in the common law. However, we really should get our hands on a copy of the actual agreement before commenting further on who’s right and who’s wrong here.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
The actual contract isn't relevant to our specific convo
You’re saying that “it’s simply the law” that he has to get another job. You’re not claiming that it’s in his contract. That’s a different issue all-together.
If it says in his contract that he has to go look for another job, then yeah you’re right. But it’s not “simply the law” then. It’s his obligation by contract. “Simply the law” means there’s an actual statute that supports your position, which is not the case here.
I think you might be overstating what you know here.
Hmm
Since you’re not a lawyer (and I happen to be), I’ll cut you a little slack.
Civil law in California is not just reflected in statutes but also in the common law. Here we are dealing with a breach of contract claim. The damages are reflected presumably in the amount of money that has not been paid, probably discounted to present value if he was to be paid over time. There is a concept in the common law (perhaps reflected in an old statute) that the party who has been damaged by the breach of contract (failure to pay) must act reasonably to reduce his or her damages. In cases like this, the party typically has to reasonably go out and search for work. He cannot just sit at home and eat bon bons and expect to get paid.
Of course, that’s the law in California. And it can be modified by language in the contract itself. We also don’t know if California law applies to the contract.
Thus, we really should read it before ripping MDSr or DTS further for what we think they might be doing wrong here.
The law is not just reflected in statute s
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You bring up all these points
Then say we should not discuss them until we know all the facts.
Nene Hilarious if you ask me.
Given that there is only one year left on the contract, there is going to be what five tops NBA head coach openings (not counting the Clippers) and that none have been hired yet…
You have brought up completely irrelevant talking points to wave your hands around and distract from the real issues (a true lawyer indeed!) and then when you are demonstrated to be silly, you ask that noone reply to your comments in substance.
So I comply with your suggestion. This comment is not in reply to the substance of the situations you have raised, but in your silliness and pointlessness in raising them, as in your own words, “we don’t know”.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Actually
You are really ripping Steve for his long indignant post above. That’s not very nice.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's kind of moot.
Who’s going to hire Dunleavy, 7-11?
By the way, I’ve enjoyed all year how your a John R magnet. I see I can still look forward to this all off season.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmmmm....
There’s is nothing in my post about MDsr and getting a new job. That was the Fitch situation. Given that MDsr was let go in March, at which time the Clippers immediately ceased paying, and that there have been zero hires of NBA coaches in the interim, the implication that the Clippers were taking the position that the had cause based on his refusal to seek a new job in this case is absurd. The Clippers haven’t said a single word about why they haven’t paid him, but I don’t think even they would be audacious enough to maintain this.
Then you jump in with “it’s simply the law” only to back off to “it’s not a statute but a basic defense / notion….” when someone calls you on it. Really?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 21, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh Steve
No need to be antagonistic. See my response to madglove’s post above.
As noted, the issue here is that if DTS breached the contract with MDSr, MDSr has the right to damages. Such damages are subject to the failure to mitigate defense discussed above. By the way, I don’t believe that MDSr is limited to finding a job as an NBA head coach. He can be hired as an assistant, he can be a TV anaylst, etc.
By the way, I’d be careful about the facts here. Are you certain that the Clippers haven’t been paying MDSr?
Finally, your suggestion that I “backed off” (or that someone called me on something) is simply wrong. Civil law in California is not just based on statutes.
Again, no need for the antagonism.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
"As noted, the issue here is that if DTS breached the contract with MDSr"
This isn’t the issue at all.
This is what you have tried to frame the issue as. But it isn’t the issue at all.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
That is the issue, my man, that Steve raised
Go away attack dog.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
No one cares if Dunleavy is entitled to the money or not.
It is immaterial.
The problem is perception. You’d think a lawyer would understand truth vs perception. You must not be a very good lawyer.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
You can make this about me if you want, but
I would suggest instead that before we go off the deep end ripping the Clippers and DTS based on a fluid contractual situation (fanned by Heisler who’s no friend of the Clippers), why don’t we step back and see how the facts develop.
We are jumping to a whole lot of conclusions here without the benefit of actually knowing what has really transpired.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Who is this we?
You still don’t get it. It doesn’t matter what we think.
Go read the ESPN comments on the story. Or the ones at SI. Or the instant messages I am getting from my NBA friends about being clownshoes. It doesn’t matter who is right.
It only matters what the Clippers look like to the world, including the world of potential future employees.
Or you are intentionally being dense because you know you can drag some of the kids along.
Doesn’t really matter I suppose. I’ve never suspected you of discussing from a position of honesty anyway. Now confirming that you are a lawyer…
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I'm sorry, but it's about honoring contracts.
DTS isn’t too good at it. And in this case perception is reality.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
And really its a small amount by NBA standards. The 76ers are eating a much longer deal for Eddie Jordan and you don’t hear about them not paying. This just comes down to the root of all of the Clipper woes, Donald T. Sterling is still a miserly old man.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What are you even talking about Jax?
The implication that the Clippers have done nothing wrong here is laughable. The coach has gone to arbitration. The Clippers lawyer’s comment regarding that was “We are in the process of mutually attempting to resolve any outstanding issues with Mr. Dunleavy. We’re hopeful that we can reach a resolution in the near future.” Standard operating procedure in the NBA when you fire a coach before the end of his contract is you pay him what you owe him. As I mentioned, I am aware of only five situations where that didn’t happen, two of them involving the Clippers. Are you suggesting that Dunleavy’s suit is completely capricious, that the Clippers have indeed been paying him? Because short of that, the Clippers are already way out of the mainstream on this one. Perhaps not general contract law, but for what is done in the NBA.
And I’ll let the others be the judge of whether modifying “simply the law” to “just a basic defense / notion in the common law” 27 minutes later is a backpedal. Seems like one to me, but I’m no lawyer.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 21, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure Steve
You say the Clippers’ position is laughable, but what do you really know about the situation? What Heisler says?
You say it’s standard operating procedure to pay the coach off immediately. Is that really true? What if the contract says that he’s supposed to be paid off over time (that was said in another thread). If that’s true, would DTS’ position be so incorrect here?
I’m not saying that MDSr’s suit is meritless. I’m saying that I don’t know.
Your “backpedaling” argument makes no sense to me. Sorry.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
While I agree that we should be careful about jumping to conclusions,
(and I’ve been a little reckless myself), I would agree with others who point out that the TEAM issue here, if not the legal issue, is public perception. So even if the Clips and DTS have a good legal leg to stand on, they’ve failed to handle this in a basketball savvy fashion. Even if they are right (which I very seriously doubt, but it’s possible), the Clips should not have allowed this story to leak without comment. Dunleavy has filed for arbitration, and now the cat’s out of the bag. At the very least, the team’s PR wing should have been out in front with their own spin. It’s outrageous that the story LOOKS like such a black eye.
The fact that it probably is a black eye just compounds things
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Did I say immediately?
I went back and looked, and it turns out, I didn’t. So the whole “over time” question is moot.
The vast majority of these situations don’t go to arbitration, or at least don’t get reported as going to arbitration. That’s what the Clippers did wrong here, if nothing else. They let this be news at the wrong time. Maybe that’s not their fault in any way…. but probably it is, right?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 21, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Dunleavy releasing this information?
I mean DTS was talking about exercising “…a stretch provision, which means you pay them off over five to 10 to 15 years, so you have the funds to hire someone else right away.” earlier this year.
The arbitration can be about compensation schedules which Dunleavy doesn’t agree to. Which would cause somebody to seek remedy via arbitration.
Why wouldn’t DTS be permitted to enforce a contract? Not knowing all the details really doesn’t tell the whole story, just the story Dunleavy want’s us to know.
Once again “F” Dunleavy!!
Doesn't really matter
First this is pretty much a consider the source fallacy.
Second, if you are saying this is a PR battle then Dunleavy is winning.
If Sterling had a clue, he would just pay instead of having all the talk of Clippers during playoff time be about how cheap the Clippers are.
It doesn’t matter who is right. It doesn’t even matter what the end result of the arbitration is. People will only remember how the Clippers were cheap again.
If you didn’t like Dunleavy on your side, how do you like him working against you?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
MDSr will lose whatever he does
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Of course it matters
It will all come out in the wash. If DTS is being a douche, then it’s on him. If not, then so be it. Yes he’s got a poor track record but it does no one any good to operate from fear. NBA professionals understand.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm kind of with Jax here
I don’t know about the common law/civil law aspects, am definitely not a lawyer. But I can understand that there is some sort of “best efforts” element that, as Jax says, might create a “mitigation of damages.”
But let’s step back for a second.
What would the Clippers motivation be to stop paying MDSr? There are a few of them. DTS is cheap and doesn’t want to spend the money. But there’s more to it than that. And I don’t think that “DTS is a scumbag” is a sufficient explanation either.
My guess is that they stop paying him in order to go to arbitration sooner rather than later, perhaps as quickly as possible. If they just keep cutting him checks, nothing happens. If they stop his checks, he has to go through the process to go to arbitration. A judge makes a settlement. It’s relatively simple. It’s not classy, not by any means. And you would think that the Clips would be sensitive, at this time, to the PR issues. But it does seem to make some sense in SterlingWorld.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Who knows
If DTS in the TJ Simers article is correct, MDSr would be paid off in 10 years or so under the contract. MDSr may be forcing arbitration now to try for a lump sum payment or settlement up front, taking advantage of the Clippers’ insecurities about perceptions at a time when they are trying to sign a new coach now.
All I’m saying is that we really don’t know what’s going on. The Clippers are the team we support. We should I think take a deep breath before ripping our team in this situation without the benefit of any facts.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Sterling is a punk bitch...
I specifically remember that Tj Simers article…
No coach has worked longer for Sterling than Dunleavy, and while some suspect the $5 million that Sterling owes Dunleavy next season will be enough for him to keep his job, Sterling says winning outweighs everything.
“If a coach is discharged, there is always a stretch provision, which means you pay them off over five to 10 to 15 years, so you have the funds to hire someone else right away. How much we’re paying him is no consideration.
So totaly true.
This issue of Dunleavy getting a job is rediculous. Let’s say he finds one that pays 1mm over the same period of time DTS owes the 6mm. Sterling still owes him 5mm. DTS is a sad sick joke that’s been playing on the fans for way too long.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Never understood why people couldn't wait to lose Dunleavy.
Unreal (too real), the second he’s out the door we’re back to the same old f*cked up team. I was elated when GMMDSr. was going to stay around. The March firing was bizarre; we should’ve seen this coming.
How old is Sterling again?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 21, 2010 1:58 PM PDT reply actions
he's 77-ish
i see where you’re going with that question but don’t bother. only the good die young, so he will outlive us all.
by Joe Wolf's Mullet on Apr 21, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Love the tone Steve
It’s rightfully indignant and outraged.
I have to admit, it’s hard to root for a team owned by such a filthy guy.
I guess your post yesterday about not wanting Lebron was almost an anticipatory post to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for this franchise doing something that precludes it from getting Lebron.
Sure
Could be.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 21, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Mental and Emotional Preparation: A subtle difference
There’s no doubt that it was an anticipatory post, and SP said as much, more or less. It was filled with qualifiers.
But “the franchise doing something that precludes it from getting Lebron” seems like a false statement. True statements are: the Clippers are not going to get Lebron. The Clippers have less of a chance of getting Lebron than they had of getting Kobe in 05, or whenever it was.
And it also seems that stopping payment to Dunleavy and going to arbitration doesn’t preclude the Clippers from getting Lebron. If Lebron wants to come to the Clippers, and has his own reasons for doing so (wants to be in LA, likes the Kaman-Griffin-Gordon-Davis core, likes the practice facility, likes the new coach), he’s going to make his deal with the Clippers.
But it’s not going to happen. And as SP noted, “give the ball to Lebron” might not be the best version of basketball that some of us Clipper fans would hope to see. It might not. Really. We sort of believe that.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
The All Lebron all the time offense
would still be a lot more entertaining than the dreck we usually have to watch.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 21, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions
There was never a chance of the Clips getting
James. None. And it’s all because of the owner. Was and Is.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I think 25 years of losing may have a little more to do with it.
If the Clippers were contenders year in and year out then discussion of how pathetic our owner is would be in the peripheral. Our futility from top to bottom adds a whole lot to our disgruntled situation.
by yaggiefresh on Apr 22, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
The futility is BECAUSE of the owner.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 22, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
There have been teams that have had success with bad ownership
Hell, even the Raiders made it to the Superbowl.
I know DTS has been a huge culprit but over the last 6 years or so MDSr had a lot of control. Injured players and poor play of the last few years can’t be blamed entirely on DTS.
How this is being handled though
is all DTS. 25+ years of almost constant futility under his leadership (or lack thereof) says something.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Just further evidence....
…that Sterling is the worst owner in all of professional sports. No new revelation here. This, mind you, does not make Dunleavy into a good coach, but both of them were part of a dysfunctional organization, and now it’s just the culmination of that association.
Ugh.....who's going to want to coach for this team now?
Back to the bottom the Clips go….oh wait…they are already there.
DTS will look at the financials of all prospective coaches,
find the one in the worst financial shape, then offer that man a job at the lowest possible salary so he can squeeze the lifeblood out of him.
by eastie Rich on Apr 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
question to Jax
I heard on the radio that Dunleavy was well aware that something like this would happen. So he had it written in his contract that arbitration would be involved if there is any issue regarding payment of due salary.
If the above is true isn’t it just standard procedure to stop paying MDSr. and let it go to arbitration?
Everyone is trying to make a negative of this, but it seems to me that if it was written in the contract that instead of a full lawsuit it would go to arbitration, that DTS is just following standard procedure as advised to him by his lawyers.
Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me as it seems so standard.
or more succinctly
DTS knew this would go to arbitration, so why not just stop paying Dunleavy ASAP, to get the entire process over with.
I don't know the answer to that
But I don’t think that an arbitration provision has anything to do with whether MDSr knew that DTS would try to breach the contract if he was terminated. He could just as easily go to court.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm doing a lot of assuming here
but assuming there is that provision, wasn’t Dunleavy expecting this.
Of course
And to be clear, there’s nothing unethical or illegal about simply breaching a contract. Having said that, we really don’t know what’s happened here. The first order of business would be to read the contract. The second would be to determine whether DTS has actually stopped paying. The third would be to get our hands on the arbitration complaint. And so on.
Or we could all act like chicken littles and walk around crying that the sky is falling.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Arbitration
is a cheap way to resolve contract disputes and is a common provision in the types of contracts I come across (entertainment industry)
Someone said
in another thread that MDSr initiated arbitration to try to get a lump sum payment earlier than he’s supposedly entitled to in the contract. If that’s true, why would that be DTS’ fault?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
that's where I am at
lots of things out there points to MDSr being the one who wanted the arbitration.
To me it’s really not that big of a deal as it is a pretty standard procedure. Just because it is DTS everyone wants to vilify him.
Reading between the lines
Some of those complaining the loudest are those that didn’t want MDSr to be terminated in the first place.
But the truth is that we don’t know. MDSr must go to arbitration if the contract contains an arbitration clause and the Clippers breached the agreement. Witout reading the agreement and knowing the facts, it’s difficult to speculate.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Thought this might be down below here
I was making the same point on eariier comments, up above. This is pretty much my read of the situation at this point.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't Dunleavy resign his position as coach?
His contract was for him to coach the team and he resigned the job. When he signed the deal it had nothing to do with being a GM… the job he was fired from.
I don’t agree with Sterling here, but to me it sounds like Sterling might win this.
Lots of assumptions you're making
So you think Dun just agreed to assume GM duties without that being added to his contract? If he’s that dumb, then yes Sterling might have a basis to stand on.
I guess we'll find out whether or not he really resigned ;-)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
No way
There’s no way that MDSr made any move that would have jeopardized his compensation. When he resigned as coach he knew the impact on his deal. When the Clippers terminated his services they knew what would happen, what the result would be.
And it seems that when they stopped paying him, they knew that the dispute would go to arbitration. A judge will decide if there are any mitigating elements to the Clips cutting him a check for the full amount.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 21, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Very disheartening..
I too think this really hurts the coach/free agent search..
Oh well, Sterling can’t live forever, right?
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
What are we all doing here?
Argue all you want about the legalities and what is or isn’t in the contract… the real point is that from a public relations point of view, Donald Sterling and the Clippers keep doing really dumb things. They should do everything possible to keep stuff like this from happening… and it keeps happening.
I think Steve’s post is pretty clear: How can we be fans of a team run by cheap, bigoted, slimeball who does one dumb thing after another. Why does he deserve us?
by John Raffo on Apr 21, 2010 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Bingo!
I’m happy that citizen jax can utilize his legal knowledge in the wonderful world of Clipper Nation, but the point here is the negative direct effect this situation has on our organization. That’s just a fact. I don’t care how this plays out whether Sterling is “legally” right or not, it’s a terrible business move for the Clippers given the current circumstance and our history.
If I been accused of child molestation for example on more than one occasion, settle out of court each time in a very shady manner, I’m not going to turn around and open an all girls 24 hour day-care. It would be absolutely legal, but just not a smart move. That I believe is Steve’s very intelligent point, maybe this wouldn’t be so bad if coming from a resepectable owner with a polished history. But Sterling? Now of all times? This shit is ridiculous!
by clippersince94 on Apr 21, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
the laker/casual fan down the cubicle hallway from me
will only know/care that the clips had “to be taken to court to pay a coach, again!”…not the legalese that we’re all chatting about here…unfortunetly there are many more of them than there are of us citizens…
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
by Lawler's Law on Apr 21, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Booyaka Booyaka!!!
Hey Jax? I hope your a defense attorney…’cause Imma bust a cap in his ass!!!
?
Honestly though, how many of you when you first heard about this thought: "When is he gonna die??? Not that I want him to, but this is too important of a time to let any bad news get out. Not really a big deal about the arbitration, but this stings when we’re about to get a new coach and trying to attract free agents. Plus this is Dunleavy paying DTS back for being a punk-ass businessmen.
"How old is he?"
That was my first thought. Different words, same sentiment.
I agree, the arbitration itself is probably not a big deal. Why do we always have to lose in the court of public opinion too though?!
by Handsome_B._Wonderful on Apr 21, 2010 6:40 PM PDT reply actions
+1!
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Apr 21, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW, very eloquent piece, SP
LOL, it seems DTS brings out the best in you.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
LOSER DTS!!!
Once again Sterling is an idiot loser. How are the Clips going to lure a big name free agent and coach when they continure to be idiots. What is a coach going to think,"I’ll come to the Clips and get fired eventually and have to fight to get my money. " Sterling is a fool.
For sure!
And Coach K will come over to coach for the league minimum!
Sigh.
by yaggiefresh on Apr 22, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Get a new coach.
With the playoffs going on the Clippers want to make news, so the Donleavy payment issue is on the table. The real issue is, who will be the new coach and or general manager.Right now Brian Davis feels that he will dictate what will happen because any new coach has to get his approval or the choas continues.The move is to get rid of Davis and get their best player coach over the last years and that is Sam Cassel.Forget all the other candidates because they are also rans.
To Jax
I’m a lawyer who specialized in employment law for a few years. I don’t agree with your analysis above.
Dunleavy is entitled to the full amount of the contract. You don’t subtract any of it for a failure to mitigate. In a breach of contract action, the proper amount of damages is to put the plaintiff in as good of a position as if the defendant had performed as promised. This means the full amount. Therefore, yes, Dunleavy can sit on his butt and eat bons bons all day and still recover.
In limited circumstances, one can also also recover foreseeable damages beyond the contract. This is where a duty to look for employment comes into play. However, these are damages above and beyond the agreed-to amount in the contract.
To Madglove – in general employment cases, one must show a good faith attempt to find employment. Otherwise, claims for lost future earnings are not recoverable. However, these are general employment cases and not breach of contract cases.
Well Said
From one EPL attorney to another, albeit currently unemployed. I have handled well over 100 EPL suits, not one involved a professional sports guaranteed contract. An entirely different animal from the normal employment contract.
What would be the situation in the normal employment contract?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Interesting
Thanks for your input. As I understand it, in your view, the failure to mitigate defense has no application to the Dunleavy contract situation? That is indeed contrary to my understanding of the situation, but I do not have very much experience with sports contracts (I have been involved in a few). However, as I’ve said, I haven’t reviewed the contract itself and believe that we should review it.
I do have a question for you though. Hypothetically, if Dunleavy were to get another job, and continue to receive the money from the Clippers, wouldn’t he be in a better position then he would have been in had he just simply continued to work for the Clippers, receiving the salary?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
My analysis above was for ANY written contract, not just sports contracts.
Your hypothetical of course depends on the words of the contract. I assume the contract likely has a provision that stops payment (or limits payment) once Dunleavy received another coaching-related job. For example, I’m pretty sure the warriors were forced to continue to pay Montgomery the difference between what he would have received had he still been employed and the money he makes at Berkeley.
However, if this provision doesn’t exist, then yes, he would be in a better situation. But that is directly because Sterling fired him. If Dunleavy had voluntary resigned, he of course would not have continued receiving payments from the Clips.
Thanks
Not sure I understand, however. Are you saying that there is no failure to mitigate defense generally available to the employer in breach of employment contract situations? If that’s what you are saying, I don’t think I’d ben in agreement with your position. Of course, the contract can modify the availability of the defense.
In your discussion of my hypothetical, you assume that the contract has a provision that stops or limits payment once the employee finds another coaching-related job. I would submit that such a provision if included would simply be a manifestation of the failure to mitigate defense, and that the employee must reasonably look for work in a similar occupation or be subjected to that defense. As I understand it, the defense is grounded in public policy.
Finally, I disagree with the implication in your final paragraph that Dunleavy would be able to keep the money if he didn’t bother looking for similar employment. The fact that he was fired does not mean that the failure to mitigate defense does not apply. In fact, the defense, as a defense, would only apply if the employer (DTS) breached the contract. Again, however, the parties could contract around the application of that provision.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I love how lawyers write with precision
and without any hints of emotion…makes me sleepy. =)
or is that the chicken i had for lunch….
Re what you said to madglove
California is an at will employment state. There are no future damages unless the employee can establish the existence of an employment contract. Generally, the employer can just fire the employee without recourse. Doctrines like the “failure to mitigate” only come into play in contract breach situations.
I don’t specialize in employment law but that seems basic.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wrong
This cannot be further from the truth.
An employee can recover for any wrongful discharge. If I’m fired b/c I’m a minority or a woman or because i’m a whistleblower, i can absolutely recover future lost income.
What? Apples and oranges
Of course if there’s some violation of law the employee can initiate a lawsuit. We’re not talking about that scenario.
Absent the violation of some law, and in the vast majority of terminations, the employer can fire without recourse. Period.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yes – of course. My statement to madglove was about general employment litigation outside of breach of K situations. Litigation arises when a law is allegedly broken. I really don’t understand your point.
My point is
that the failure to mitigate doctrine would not apply unless the employer breached a contract with the employee. If there is no contract, the employer is not liable, and the doctrine would not apply.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Seems like you went off a tangent then
in the scenario we care about Dunleavy obviously has a contract and the Clippers are contractually bound to pay him. I suppose the only real issue is the “stretch” payments discussed versus the last $5 million being paid out on a normal payment schedule if he were still coaching.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
No - just responded to what BtheKUTA said
The issue you are referencing will be dictated by the terms of the contract.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Also Important
Damages are awarded in a breach of contract action to place the injured party in the same position he would have been in had the promisor performed the contract. Of course, it all depends what the contract states, but typically this means damages equal the full amount of the agreed-to contract. If there is no “duty to mitigate” provision in the contract, the breaching party is on the hook for the agreed-to amount. Absent this provision, Dunleavy would absolutely be entitled to the entire amount.
This doesn’t mean the avoidable consequences doctrine does not apply at all. Not only is an injured party entitled to the amount bargained for, they are also entitled to any foreseeable damages relating to the breach. Here, the duty to mitigate would apply to the foreseeable damages. It would also apply to the extent that Dunleavy is attempting to recover on promissory estoppel grounds.
One last important point. Even if the avoidable consequences doctrine applies, its application is extremely limited in this case. Dunleavy only has a duty to look for “substantially similar” employment. An employee has no duty to apply or accept different or inferior jobs. Furthermore, an employee is only required to look for employment in the same geographical area. There simply aren’t that many coaching-related jobs in California that pay $5 mil a year.
Above post was in reply to Jax
If I signed a 5-year employment contract with my law firm for 1 mil a year and I get fired the first day, I am entitled to 1 mil a year for 5 years. I have absolutely no duty to try and find employment to receive these damages.
Ok
So now you appear to concede that the failure to mitigate (or as you put it the “avoidable consequences”) doctrine applies, but only if the doctrine is expressly stated in the contract as some sort of duty. That’s just flat wrong in my view.
In addition, I would disagree that the doctrine is “extremely limited” as you say. There is absolutely no way that Dunleavy would be limited to searching for coaching jobs in California. There are many cases confirming that this is not the case.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
From the rutter guide
4. [17:515] Same Geographical Area: Plaintiffs may properly refuse employment that is inconveniently located or unreasonably distant. [See Cunningham v. Retail Clerks Union (1983) 149 CA3d 296, 307, 196 CR 769, 775—plaintiff need not accept a job that would require her to rent another place to live, move away from the community where she lived for 25 years, and bear other financial burdens; see also NLRB v. Westin Hotel (6th Cir. 1985) 758 F2d 1126, 1130—employee need not seek employment in city 25 miles from home and requiring commute by car that she could not afford]
a. Application
• [17:515.1] Television investigative reporter was discharged in violation of the ADEA. He made telephone calls and sent letters to other television stations in his city but did not attempt to find a comparable job on the national market because he did not wish to relocate his family. His failure to look for a similar job out of state did not mean that he had not made a reasonable effort to mitigate damages. [Minshall v. McGraw Hill Broadcasting Co., Inc. (10th Cir. 2003) 323 F3d 1273, 1287]
plaintiff need not accept a job that would require her to rent another place to live
So basically, unless MDsr is replacing Phil Jackson…..
by Michael White on Apr 22, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
He has a few other options
Any local college nearby (LMU, Pepperdine, CSULB, CSUF, USC, UCLA) could help a bit. He could also become an Assistant Coach or some other front office role for the Lakers. Still considering the post-season isn’t even over its a bit peculiar as this isn’t really the hiring time of the season, especially for coaches.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he can get a job anywhere and it would apply
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
How so?
Has to be reasonably distant. How many other basketball-related jobs are there within 100 miles? In the cited case it was 25 years, I would think 7 years by NBA standards is comparable to 25 years in most professions (I believe MDSR was the 3rd longest tenured coached at the time).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Chuck - the case he cited does not apply here
That’s the point. Be careful what you read on a blog. Trust me, MDSr will need to search nationwide.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Chuck
Trust me – what I am saying is right – see below. Jax is spewing misstatements of law left and right.
by BtheKUTA on Apr 22, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, sure
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm not a lawyer...
But if I understand correctly, it is fairly standard for an NBA coach’s contract to contain specific clauses governing this. So while none of us have access to MDsr’s contract, I think Jax and BtheKUTA would agree that the contract itself overrides the general statutes.
Based on prior cases (Fitch, Mike Montgomery, etc) it’s my understanding that it is basically coaching jobs (head, assistant, coaching) but I don’t think there’s a geography requirement. I don’t know for certain, but I doubt that TV analyst jobs are covered.
Furthermore, the Clippers assertion in 1998 that Fitch should have been looking for work, while perhaps reasonable (though obviously difficult to prove) from a legal standpoint, was viewed as laughable by observers at the time. There may have been a legal basis for the claim, but no other team would consider doing that.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 22, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure the reason but
it was probably because he was too old to get another HC job.
Don’t forget that the MDSr contract probably includes GM duties which would seem to open up the possibilities somewhat.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And in all honesty, the avoidable consequences doctrine is not that powerful in California employment law. There only has to be a “reasonable effort” to find employment. Courts have interpreted this as not a very tough burden to meet. Simply firing off a few resumes is enough. Failure to actually secure a job is also irrelevant.
I understand the point you’re trying to make. You’re saying the avoidable consequences doctrine is common law and always applicable to calculating damages. A plaintiff has a duty to limit any further damages. Here, though, it doesn’t apply. For the most part, damages cannot be furthered. Instead, the damages are absolute and concrete. The damages are $5 mil a year.
Basically, holding a breaching party responsible for performing under the terms of the contract is the amount of damages.
So you
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Sorry
Now you’ve at least conceded that “failure to mitigate” is a viable defense in California. You’ve gone from essentially “it doesn’t exist at all” to “it’s not all that powerful.” So we’re moving in the right direction. I can see that you’ve been doing your research. Given your concessions, I have no idea why you continue to argue that “it doesn’t apply.” Of course it does.
And no, firing off a few resumes isn’t enough to satisfy the standard. MDSr has to act reasonably. He’s got to actually look for work, not just look like he’s doing so. And it’s not limited to head coaching jobs. And the damages are $5 M per year minus what he makes at the new job (or under the doctrine reasonably should be making). Unless, of course, the contract itself dictates otherwise.
However, you’re not correct about whether employees who are executives and the like can limit their search to California. From a five-minute search (no, not from Rutter):
“geographical considerations may be less of a factor for executives and professionals whose employer routinely relocate their top employees. In such cases, a wrongfully terminated employee’s failure to accept a job offer solely because it requires moving to a different location may be held to be a failure to mitigate damages. Hopkins v. Price Waterhouse (1990).”
You can easily analogize to the situation involving a $5M per year head coach who travels hundreds of days a year. It really shouldn’t matter where the headquarters is. His job as in terms of location akin to a traveling saleman.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Dude
I’m not trying to John R you here. I have considerable experience as an employment defense attorney. I’m telling you these facts from personal experience. It’s not difficult to satisfy the “reasonable search” requirement.
As I explained, Plaintiff’s are under a duty to limit damages. However, damages cannot be limited here. The damages are a concrete $5 mil a year.
If Dunleavy is offered 3 mil a year for a head coaching job, he can reject it as not being “substantially similar.” He does not have to accept this job. He has to have a similar job with similar pay to what he had from the Clippers. And yes, the job must be coaching related.
Look at the facts of Hopkins more carefully. It talks about the standard practice of permanently relocating an employee. There is standard practice of permanently relocating a head coach in the nba.
Typo
There is NO standard practice of permanently relocating a head coach.
This is a bad decision by the Clippers
the smart move is to keep paying Dunleavy. IF Dunleavy is able to find a job at some point then the Clippers can get him to return the difference. Any potential savings a miniscule to how this effects the franchise on a macro level as the million dollars at best is nothing to the harm this does to the Clippers brand as a whole.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I think though that
under the contract they’re not required to pay him off now – just continue to pay his salary for the term. That’s what I’d do. I’d ask him what he’s doing to find another job and if he’s not doing anything after about eight months or so start to perhaps push him. That would be reasonable.
Someone said that MDSr initiated the arb to try to force the Clippers to give him a lump sum. If that’s not allowed in the contract, he’s playing hardball. Forcing them to either go to arb (risking negative pub such as this post by Steve) or pay him off. Nice move by MDSr if it’s true.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well
You started off by telling me that I was flat wrong. Sorry, I respectfully disagree with your position, your considerable experience notwithstanding.
Take the Hopkins case. You quote from Rutter (Rutter, really?) for one proposition arguing that this is the situation in all circumstances. In five minutes I found a case that suggests that in certain circumstances certain kinds of employees have to accept employment in other locations. You want to limit Hopkins to its facts. I think the approach would apply to these facts as well.
Now you are telling me how he can get around the failure to mitigate doctrine. That may well be true. But that’s a far cry from what you first said.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Are you billing us for this?
I hope you goes by 1/6th of an hour and not round up to the nearest quarter.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm making both points
But yes, my main point is that he has NO duty to try and find another job to recover breach of contract damages.
In 5 minutes you found a case that is not at all applicable.
Um, ok
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Dude
Just admit when you are wrong.
I gave you a California Court of Appeal case. You come back at me with a district court case from wash. dc. Cmon man.
And – here is a quote from your case
“Because Price Waterhouse is a national firm that regularly asks and expects its partners to transfer offices, Ms. Hopkins’ duty to mitigate had to include a willingness to consider jobs that would or might take her out of the Washington area.”
Yes, NBA coaches travel – but they do not permanently relocate or “transfer offices.” I mean, one of the cases I gave you involved a reporter who frequently had to travel. Yet, he was justified in limiting his search to only his city (and only other reporting jobs).
Dude
No offense, but I have no idea what you’re talking about. I completely but respectfully disagree with your analysis, as explained above.
I’m trying to be kind here.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
"Trying to be kind?"
If you were REALLY trying to be kind you wouldn’t have mentioned that in your post. I mean that’s even worse than saying “with all due respect”!
It has to be coaching related?
Isn’t it possible (even likely) his contract was amended when he took on a GM role as well? I would think an executive level position would suffice as well.
Most of this pretty moot, its difficult to see anyone offering Dunleavy another head coaching position in the near future. He’ll have to do something similar to what Del Harris or Carlesimo did and work his way back to the big seat.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Also would any work as say an TV analyst mitigate damages?
He has called a few playoff games in the past… It makes me wonder if he turned down a short term gig for these playoffs and the Clippers saw some potential savings slip away.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Good question Chuck
If you recall the Elgin Baylor suit, he alleges that he saw MDSr’s contract, and that the contract basically calls for MDSr to be the GM as well as coach.
So it wasn’t amended – it was always that way. Which is why the poster specialist shouldn’t be making such strident cocksure statements about the situation. A head coaching job, asst coaching job, basketball operations job and probably analyst or other job would likely potentially qualify.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
This is wrong again
As I explained above, Dunleavy has no duty to mitigate damages to recover under the contract.
However, even if he did have a duty, it would have to be a head coaching related job. I would cite Westlaw sponsored Rutter, but Jax doesn’t think that is a legitimate source.
Instead, I will cite CACI jury instruction 2407. He can reject the job if “the nature of the work is different from plaintiff’s employment with defendant.” The job responsibilities must be similar. It also specifically says that he has a right to reject “inferior” positions. Asst coach would definitely be an inferior position.
AND, he can reject jobs if the “salary, benefits, and hours” are not similar. So he can reject an offer if it’s not near $5 mil per.
by BtheKUTA on Apr 22, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you want a good recent example
Look at the circumstances surrounding Conan O’Brien. He was entitled to the entire 45 mil for the two years. Subsequent employment was irrelevant.
Let's review the Conan contract, shall we?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Don't waste your time
I honestly do not know the Conan contract well – it might not be applicable. I would delete the above comment if i could.
At least you're half way home
You now admit that the failure to mitigate duty applies. You say it doesn’t, then you cite to Cal. jury instructions which obviously state that the duty does apply.
You can also tell us that he has to get a head coaching job, but you really don’t know, since you haven’t seen the contract. In addition, why does it have to be a “head” coaching job? Please explain.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
UGH
read carefully – only applies if there is an “unspecified term.” Look at the title of the jury instruction.
That's just one jury instruction my man
Do I have to do your work for you?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You're making me mad
Mostly because you’re blatantly wrong. I’m going to stop arguing about this since it is all speculation without knowing what the contract says.
It’s funny, I typically agree with you over John R in your arguments.
You are absolutely right
We need to read the contract to really be sure of anything. The contract will always control.
I was simply talking about a duty to mitigate generally. It has to be a very similar job with very similar responsibilities in the same general vicinity
Where do you come up with this stuff Jax?
Jax, I am an attorney as well and I am not sure where you get a lot of this. There is a duty to mitigate, but it likely has an extremely limited application here.
“The employee’s rejection of or failure to seek other available employment of different or inferior kind may not be resorted to in order to mitigate damages.” Parker v. Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corp. (1970) 3 Cal.3d 176, 182, 89 Cal.Rptr. 737, 740. Furthermore, a plaintiff is not required to move or accept work an unreasonable distance from his or her home.
As the law clearly states MDSr would not have to seek “different or inferior” work. Thus, MDSr would not have to take an “asst coaching job, basketball operations job and probably analyst” job as you claim. (Also, even if he got one of these lesser jobs, you really think it would significantly offset the $5 million the Clips owe him? These jobs pay $500k tops. 10% of the amount owed.) Furthermore, without question, MDSr would not have to look for jobs outside the LA area, so this basically limits his possible positions to two.
So basically you are right to an extremely small extent. If the Lakers are hiring either their head coach or GM and Dunleavy is hired or is offered the position and declines it, the Clips could offset the amount they owe him by his new compensation.
What have I misstated?
We agree on the basic points. You’re quibbling over whether he’d have to go national or get different types of employment. My argument is that he’d be required to accept really any type of front office or coaching job, and maybe an analyst job, depending of course on the language of the contract.
I agree with you about whether other inferior jobs offset what he’s owed. You’re definitely correct about that.
I strongly disagree that he’d be limited to the LA area.
Really a couple of points of disagreement here. Mostly we agree.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Cool, modern day lawyer jokes aplomb
When do you know a lawyer is lying… when he’s blogging.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah yeah yeah
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
JAX - I APOLOGIZE
I looked at some national treatises. Contract law is clear that a breaching party must perform the entirety of the contract.
However, after looking at some California commercial contract cases, I think you are right that Dunleavy would have to try and find similar employment.
That said, I still think this would be limited to head coaching jobs within LA for similar pay (at least a couple mil per).
And of course the contract controls. If the contract states that he must look for any basketball related job, then that would control. If the contract is silent, he must take similar employment.
No problem - believe me I've been wrong more than I care to admit
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well, for the points we disagree on, the law is clearly against you and has been cited above. I would like to see you find one case or legal principle that support either:
(a) A former employee has to take an inferior or different job, or
(b) A former employee of any kind has a duty to take a job that would require him to move.
I realize you disagree, but what case or legal principle supports either of your claims?
Lawyers sure like to argue
The language of the contract will dictate the type of job he’ll have to take.
Q Have you read the contract?
A No.
Above I told you that it appears that the contract covers employment in areas broader than just HC. Is that of interest to you?
On the issue of relocation – I’ve already cited to one case that I found in a few minutes. The principles of that case would I strongly suspect apply to different fact patterns, including this one. If you want to pay me I’d be happy to conduct some additional legal research.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wrong again...
No one has read the contract. Obviously the contract would be controlling over a lot of these issues. Duh.
Your complete speculation on the wording of the contract is assinine. California law is clear. When your contract is breached, you do not have to take a job that is significantly below the compensation level or stature of your last one. You only have to look for similar employment. Dunleavy was paid $5 million per year to be the head coach and gm. He was listed as the head coach and gm with the NBA, on the Clippers website, and everywhere else. The duties he did for the franchise was that of a head coach and GM. I am sure his contract somehow reflected he would be in charge of these duties, even if additional duties may also be listed. Because Dunleavy is not required to take a job of lesser pay or stature, the law does not require him to take a job not as an NBA GM and/or head coach.
For example: If my contract said I was an attorney, but also would be in charge of making my own copies and picking up clients from the airport, I would not be forced to look for jobs as a copy store worker or cab driver. While, I do think you make a good argument giving the facts, the law is clearly not on your side here.
The case law is even more clear on your other false claim. The law only requires you make a reasonable effort to find similar employment. The breaching party has the burden of proving a reasonable effort was not made. As for your case, it was from a DC district court (could you have found a more obscure case?) and the facts were distinguishable, being the contract there specifically mentioned the possibility of forced relocation. Here, Dunleavy’s family residence is in LA. Dunleavy’s position with the Clippers did not subject him to possible forced relocation. There is no way a court would make Dunleavy move his family because Sterling breached his employment contract.
I think you should
relax. No one is arguing with you or wants to argue with you. Is it really necessary to use the word asinine (which you misspelled)? You’re claiming that I made a “false claim”?
You think the facts are distinguishable. I indicated that I think that the principles in that case can apply to different scenarios. Actually, I’m fairly certain about it. You apparently don’t.
W h a t e v e r.
More important, why so bitter? I’m not your enemy.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Haha
Not my enemy at all, just having a healthy debate, I thought. I actually complimented you for making a good argument given the facts. However, I know the law and it is clear on both these points.
Also, sorry about the misspelling.
Got it
You’re obviously a smart lawyer, just wrong this time ;-)
I wonder whether Steve appreciates the fact that a bunch of lawyers hijacked the blog for a few hours today.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yeah sorry about that Steve
Stupid lawyers.
Personally, I don’t mind at all.
It may not be as intellectually stimulating as debating whether or not the nickname Blake Superior is appropriate, but hey, not every conversation can be that riveting.
by Michael White on Apr 23, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I think I am ready to sit for the State Bar test now...
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
by Lawler's Law on Apr 23, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Where else could this happen?
Clipsnation seems to have it all: academics, attorneys, procrastinating fessional writers, financial wizards, spreadsheet geeks, foreigners who apparently watch the games days after their played, even a couple of women. Drop by and you might be witness to a lengthy, detailed argument between a bunch of lawyers (that I read in fascination and only occasionally understood)… all with a weird passion for an underdog team with a reputation for futility and a cranky owner who might be a sociopath.
It keeps me tuned in.
Put me down as a procrastinating writer
except I don’t think I’m procrastinating — the epiphany hasn’t hit, that’s all.
I was thinking the same thing, Swami, about how engaging these boards are. I think it’s safe to say we don’t have many Ed Hardy wearing fans commenting on the regular.
by yaggiefresh on Apr 23, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
great point
hilarious, swami. don’t forget the hybrids of the above categories. And the best part: “…even a couple of women.”
All of them Clipper fans. Despite it all, somehow a proud nation.
by citizen zhiv on Apr 23, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if before every game
he’d point at Sterling and say Mama there goes that man again.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Some Points..
1. F$@K DTS
2. Haven’t really really done my homework on coaching candidates so excuse my ignorance but why no Jeff Van Gundy talk??
Clips Nation, 2010-11 Reloaded!!
JVG
JVG’s brother Stan recently said Jeff won’t be coaching next year. My belief is that if he dies coach, it will be for the Nets. He’s a NYC guy, and he’s friends with Rod Thorn.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 22, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Cmon now the New Jersey isn't thaaatt bad
I don’t think coaching in NJ would kill anyone now. Now you sound like the typical New Yorker.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 22, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
"if he dies coach, it will be for the Nets"
I suppose the Nets job would kill someone, but I doubt anyone is dying to take that job.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
dies = does
That was a typo, guys.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 23, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
No chance for JVG.
First, DTS has to pay Dunleavy off for a load of money, despite what is being bantered around today. I don’t see him ponying up huge cash for JVG, who would command well more than the $5 mill Dunleavy was making.
Second, while a better coach than Dunleavy, he is in many ways similar, a la very controlling. While defense is JVG’s forte, he plays slow ball, calling out almost every set play. Tons of isolations and basic postups with not a lot of ball movement and fast breaks. Not conducive to an exciting form of ball (although one could argue winning more would be exciting).
Third, I am certain he would not coach for DTS. He’s too headstrong and very comfortable in his current gig. My bet is on hiring an assistant coach or retread, one who will be hired on the cheap.
Bottom line
When you fire someone, you have their check ready for them immediately. This is how professionals handle business when they want their reputation intact to draw future top talent.
Anything less while possibly legal is still immoral.
Anyone spending dozens of comments defending Sterling, especially when it is quite clear how wrong they are, well I question their moral compass too.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
by John R on Apr 23, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Your problems
include the following:
(1) You don’t know what you’re talking about;
(2) You have no idea that you don’t know what you’re talking about; and
(3) You don’t realize that posts like that just make people shake their heads.
Keep the comedy coming!!
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
YES!
All is right with the world! Jax is arguing with John R instead of me!
It’s impossible to know who is right and who is wrong without looking at the contract. It’s hard to believe that the Clips would simply breach the contract (Though I wouldn’t put it past them). Most California contracts have boilerplate attorney fee provisions that state the prevailing party is also due any attorney fees. If Sterling is truly breaching the contract, he could be on the hook for a lot more than what is promised Dunleavy.
Although arbitration clearly helps Sterling here, this is also great timing for Dunleavy. Dunleavy brings this suit right before the free agent period. It has already provoked two extremely harsh posts on the only two clipper blogs. Even if Dunleavy is in the wrong here pursuant to the terms of the contract, he has significant leverage for a settlement. Dunleavy knows Sterling cannot handle any more bad press.
Great points
MDSr is a shrewd negotiator (as evidenced by the terms of the contract).
That’s why I think we as Clips fans should wait until we know the facts before adding fuel to the fire. For example, Heisler’s article seems like it is based on information provided by MDSr (“guaranteed contract” and the like).
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

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