Marcus Camby and the Clippers - A Retrospective
When Marcus Camby and the Portland Trailblazers reached an agreement on a contract extension last week, I'm sure there were some pangs of remorse around Clips Nation with the realization that the free agent Camby would not be returning to the Clippers. Although Camby-returnp-to-LAC scenario had been bandied about by beat writers and the Clippers front office, and Camby was always gracious in answering questions, saying things like "You never know what's going to happen", the simple truth is that it was never a realistic possibility. Nor would it have been realistic had Camby not been traded to the Blazers.
Camby's deal in Portland is reportedly for 2 years and $20M. Even allowing for a Paul-Allen-is-crazy-rich-and-possibly-just-plain-crazy factor (it's an astronomical and ultimately ridiculous sum for a 36 year old), the extension demonstrates just how valuable Camby was on the open market. Remember, even if the Clippers had kept him until the end of this season, he would have been an unrestricted free agent. There was obviously no way the Clippers were going to extend him given their designs on maximum cap space, and even in a scenario where they struck out on their first choice free agents and decided to re-sign their own players, it's unimaginable that the Clippers would have spent anywhere close to that kind of coin on a 14 year veteran (nor should they have). The dream of signing LeBron and then convincing Marcus Camby to return to LA for the veteran's minimum was always that: a dream.
So congratulations to Marcus for earning one more pay day. And good luck to him over the next few days as he tries to extend his season in an elimination game (or games) against the Suns.
All trades are interesting, but the trades that brought Camby to LA and sent him away are particularly so, especially in retrospect. We don't know the ultimate resolution of course, but we're getting pretty close - and unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well for the Clippers.
From a statistical productivity standpoint, Marcus Camby was an absolute steal for the Clippers. He continued to be among the league leaders in rebounding and blocked shots despite his advanced age, shot a good percentage (51% in 08-09), was the team's best high post passer, and was surprisingly durable despite his reputation and in contrast to his Clipper teammates (he played in 125 of 134 games during his LAC tenure). He was arguably the best player on the Clippers over the past two seasons.
And yet the team's results were terrible. The Clippers were 40-94 during Marcus' time in LA. Would they have been worse without him? Seems like they would have - but how much worse could they have been?
Meanwhile, it was widely believed that Denver would drop out of the Western Conference playoff picture when they unceremoniously shipped Camby out of town in July 2008. The message was clear - cost cutting was the order of the day and more important than winning games. Instead, the Nuggets (aided by a trade for Chauncey Billups) tied the franchise record of 54 wins and advanced to the Western Conference Finals - an even more remarkable feat when you consider that the team hadn't won a playoff series in 14 years.
I'm not suggesting that Camby's absence made the Nuggets better or that his presence made the Clippers worse. That would be far too simplistic and ulitmately incorrect, as there are obviously countless other factors that contributed to both situations. Still, it's interesting, and in retrospect, it's hard to declare the Clippers winners in that trade.
It's worth noting that Camby has had very little playoff success in his career. In 14 seasons in the league, he's been beyond the first round only twice - and hasn't been part of a team that won a playoff series in a decade. Is that Camby's fault? Of course not. But it's also not NOT his fault.
Still, the Clippers didn't give up anything when they acquired Marcus, so no harm done, right? Wrong. The trade gave the Nuggets the right to trade second round picks with the Clippers in this year's draft. Again, going back to the time of the trade, that seemed like a small price to pay, and possibly no price at all since everyone was so convinced that the Nuggets were on the decline (and hopeful that the Clippers were on the rise). In reality, it is the difference between the 38th pick in the draft and the 54th pick in the draft. That's a huge difference - the 38th pick is a borderline first rounder who you don't have to give a guaranteed contract to. The 54th pick is a guy you could almost as easily sign as an undrafted free agent the week after the draft. To give you an idea, picks 37 through 39 in last year's draft were DeJuan Blair, Jon Brockman and Jonas Jerebko; picks 53 through 55 were Nando De Colo, Robert Vaden and Patrick Mills. The only consolation is that the 38th pick actually ended up with the Knicks, so at least a conference rival won't be improving with it.
The draft in June will close the door on the Clippers-Nuggets Camby trade. Maybe the Clippers will get lucky picking 54. But probably not.
So now flash forward to the Clippers-Blazers Camby deal. It was my contention at the time that Camby was worth more (at least to some team) than what amounted to a swap of expiring contracts. I'd submit now that I was absolutely correct, given that the Blazers just signed him for 2/$20M. In Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw, the Clippers got a couple of rentals that fit existing team needs and as such had a chance to keep the team competitive over the final 30 games - and they proceeded to close the season 8-22.
The fact that the deal included cash for the Clippers is particularly irksome, as it doesn't seem to benefit the fans in any way. Did that cash windfall make the owner lower season ticket prices? Did it even make him feel flush enough to handle the business of firing his former coach in a professional manner? Entering this draft where the team has lost a decent second round pick, it sure would have been nice to get something tangibly basketball-related in the trade. Turns out, the Blazers have the Bulls' second round pick, number 44 overall. That would have provided a little consolation. Oh well.
The organization has always emphasized Blake and Outlaw's Bird Rights as an incentive for making the trade. Well, we'll see if they end up being worth anything, but I was dubious at the time, and I'm almost completely convinced at this point that those Bird Rights will not amount to anything in the final analysis.
It goes without saying that the rights to those players will have to be renounced in order to offer a large contract to a free agent. Still, that may not happen so the Clippers might retain their rights to these guys. Do the rights have significant value in that scenario? Again, I'm not convinced.
The potential benefit is that the Bird Rights would allow the Clippers to sign players they couldn't otherwise have afforded, and would keep them over the cap which would allow them to retain a valuable asset in their mid-level exception. But the Clippers have a LOT of room under the cap. In order for the Bird rights to come into play, the Clippers would have to re-sign their own free agents to an amount in excess of $17M. I don't know about you, but the idea of having some combination of Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, Rasual Butler, Craig Smith, Drew Gooden and the rest of the motley crew making over $17M from the Clippers next season does not give me a happy, warm feeling as a Clippers fan. More to the point, each and every one of those guys is free to negotiate with any team in the league - that any one of them will come to an agreement with the Clippers is far from certain. That several of them will re-up, adding to contracts greater than $17M, is a virtual impossibility.
So the next argument is about sign-and-trades - maybe the Clippers can sign-and-trade some combination of those players for something they need. This also seems like a long shot. For one thing, the players don't have to participate in an S&T, and would need some incentive to do so. Usually that incentive is more money, but given that neither Blake nor Outlaw figures to be worth more than the MLE, there are plenty of teams who can pay them without resorting to an S&T.
In the end, the Clippers chapter of Marcus Camby's career ends up looking like so many other stories in Clipper history. What looked promising in the beginning, ends up somewhere between tragedy and farce.
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Camby always went all out
And was a complete professional when he was here. With that said, I think he is grossly over rated. He is a stat padder, and cant guard his man one on one. Rather then stick with a big man with range on the perimeter, hed rather sag off and try to get weakside blocks. He also isnt able to guard any bigger guys, because he is too skinny and gets overpowered. He has no post game to speak of, and instead of trying to secure offesnive rebounds, he just flies and and tips them, which pads his rebounding stats. I loved his work ethic while he was here, but im not heartbroken that he wont be here next year, especially because he would just be taking PT from DJ Blake and possibly Sofo
Disagree disagree disagree
What we learned from the trade was he was vastly underappreciated by us. Our defense went from average to horrible. The Blazers on the other hand with from a solid team to a very good one after the trade. That said it was inevitable that we would not retain Camby past this year but we got very very little back (likely nothing) in return for him. Like Steve pointed out, we should have at LEAST gotten that 2nd round pick from the Blazers. I guess that 3 million is pretty useful to DTS, I mean he’s now worth 2.003 billion instead of a mere 2 billion even.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 29, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Clipper defense after Camby...
The Clippers defense in the final 30 games had a LOT more to do with the team not caring than it did with Camby not playing. Not something anyone can prove one way or the other of course.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 29, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 29, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You won't concede that trading Camby
had a lot to do with the rest of the team not caring? Anyone who saw how Drew Gooden played D would notice the substantial drop off at the 4 position alone.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 29, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing to do with Camby.
The team had literally nothing to play for. We were already mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, and Blake Griffin wasn’t coming back.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 29, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Even had Camby stayed, the team was not trying to win games post All-Star.
Wake up.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 30, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Having said that, I loved Camby. Wish he coulda stayed.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 30, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
No way.
There was a time that I felt the same way. Sure Camby is pretty inept on offense and watching his windup jumper is painstakingly slow. However, having Camby on offense (as SP said above) gave the Clippers another offensive facilitator. The way he managed to either the bigs in strong position in the post of wing players on a cut was grossly under appreciated. There’s no tangible stat to prove that but it doesn’t take Hollinger’s awkward rating system to figure that out.
Camby will be missed.
by yaggiefresh on Apr 29, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, $3M for Atlanta's pick (or else Miami's, possibly)
If DTS wants to soothe the trade’s lingering hangover, that would be pretty good medicine.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
All would be forgiven if he did that
That’s why I like the Paul Allen’s and Mark Cuban’s. They find creative ways to help circumvent the salary cap rules to help improve the team, DTS just figures out way to squeeze more money out of the hapless Clippers.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 29, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah buying Atlanta's pick would be really nice
And yes, I agree it’s nice to have an owner who isn’t worrying about money all the time. Why even own a basketball team if you’re going to nickel and dime you’re way through every transaction. Plenty of other jobs with that “luxury”.
by dulciusXasperis on Apr 29, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
All would be forgiven if that were to happen.
Do you think that will happen? Me neither.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 29, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
lol, but come on DTS, why not?
If we’re going to have to sign a few guys at minimum, why not pay a little more and get a guy with potential.
In fact, since it hardly affects our cap situation, this is a solid litmus test: Hey Donald, is it about the talent, or just the money?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I can speak for the Don here
just the money.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 29, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
And that is the sad truth
If DTS was willing to pay $3M for a draft pick, we would have gotten Portland’s 1st rounder in the Camby trade.
Not as I understand the numbers
I do not believe that the $3M asking price counts against the cap. The rookie contract would, but that’s only ~$1M for the 24th pick. We’d then be at $33.5M (now) + $3.5M (two first rounders) = $37M. We’d then have $56.1M – $37M = $19.1M left for a max guy and 5 min guys. As it turns out, $16.6M (max guy) + 5 x $.5M (min guys) = $19.1M. The math works out pretty perfectly.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I think it will happen
when pigs fly.

FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 29, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
:-( I'll be looking out for that soaring sow
As a businessman, he shouldn’t take this offseason so casually. If he just spends a modest sum, Griffin and team will start to do decently, and then he’ll more than make up the expense it at the ticket booth. Surely he still remembers how much enthusiasm there was when Odom and Darius led us to a mere 30 wins.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
hahaha loved that episode
Homer — Lisa, you don’t make friends with salad!
by yaggiefresh on Apr 29, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
that episode is awesome
my little pic/avatar is from that film they show the class after lisa’s complaints.
-Skinner: Uh oh. Two independent thought alarms in one day. The students are overstimulated. Willie! Remove all the colored chalk from the classrooms.
-Willie: I warned ya! Didn’t I warn ya?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!
by Handsome_B._Wonderful on Apr 30, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember that picture from the video
“When I grow up I want to go to Bovine University!”
and
“My friend here is a Grade A moron.”
Classic.
Nuggets getting better after Camby left....
Way too many other factors to even call it “interesting.” His replacement, Nene, is easily a top 10 center in the league and Andersen would be a legitimate starter for many teams at the 5. Furthermore, add in the continued growth of JR Smith and Anthony with the Iverson trade. Camby was awesome for us and he was awesome for the nuggets, no team is worse off with Camby.
I think birdman was important
he kind of filled in some of the gaps with his shot blocking and defensive presence off the bench. I don’t think anyone predicted he was going to be that good.
A Few Thoughts
One of the main things about Camby is that he’s a team player, a complementary player. It’s a good note that he hasn’t been to the second round of the playoffs in a long time (not this year, once again). He doesn’t take a team much further than it can naturally go, certainly not on his own, but he can help the cause quite a bit.
The Denver story has all sorts of interesting angles. Nene’s bad injuries prior to the trade, along with his big contract, were factors in them dumping Camby. Kenyon Martin was oft-injured too: shades of the Clippers, although the Nugs had a young superstar in Melo. It was a surprise, I think, that Nene came back as such a big factor and strong player. Still, the Nuggets needed more, and they were hit by lightning: Chauncey Billups, primarily, but also the BirdMan and JR Smith. Things went their way last season, but it was fragile and hard to sustain at that high level. But they had some good luck.
As a Clipper Camby had to play through the injuries to Kaman and Blake Griffin. He helped the team seem semi-respectable, but he wasn’t close to being enough to generate wins and make them good. Playing with Zach Randolph in 0809 didn’t generate wins, and Kaman-Camby had a good run, but they couldn’t win early in the season with Eric Gordon, and the absence of Griffin (which caused the departure of Randolph, along with other reasons) made the Clips a losing team. Perhaps Kaman-Camby-DJordan might have had a better result with a different coach, but it didn’t happen. Camby was fun to watch, and he has a genuine value, but he’s a relatively small piece.
Another thing to look at here, mentioned by Bill Simmons repeatedly, is the possibility that Camby should have been traded to the Thunder. It seems as if the Thunder are being patient and making sure they don’t get ahead of themselves, and it’s highly doubtful they would have spent the kind of money on Camby’s future that the Blazers have. But he would have been a tidy fit in all sorts of ways, and he clearly has a positive effect in the clubhouse. Did Olshey really try to shop Camby to the Thunder? Was he more interested (and short-sighted) in the neat fit of renting Blake and Outlaw as replacements for Thornton and Telfair, while adding Gooden to replace Camby? I suspect that’s what happened. It looked like a symmetrical swap and the slate would be completely clean in the summer. What could the Clippers have reasonably asked to take back from OKC?
Portland has made some odd decisions down the stretch. Simmons and Stein were criticizing the return of Brandon Roy pretty harshly, saying that it was too big a risk and they knew they wouldn’t win a championship. Overpaying to resign Camby is another complicated and expensive Cuban-style choice, but the Pryzbilla situation is fairly dire I guess and Odom is still quite unreliable. It has been extremely interesting to get to know Camby and his game. We know a lot more about the Blazers, now on their vacation, than we do about the Clippers. The Thunder are still intriguing, at least going into tonight.
Blazers
The Blazers are indeed interesting. Bear in mind that this is the team, with the same owner of course, that played the profligate role of the Knicks and Mavs in the early part of this decade. Brian Grant, Rasheed Wallace, Damon Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, Bonzi Wells, Darius Miles, Theo Ratliff. These guys all had some of the most ridiculous contracts in the league. It seemed as if Pritchard had set everything right, but by the same token, the Blazers struck gold in the draft, and you’re not allowed to overpay first round picks. The Andre Miller signing and the Camby signing look a little like the old Blazers – let’s spend money cuz we can. One difference is that both Miller and Camby signed for a relatively short term – Miller two seasons with an option for a third, Camby two seasons. It’s actually a pretty good strategy, if you’re billionaire owner can afford it and is willing to operate above the luxury tax at some point. Overpay on short term contracts – then you’re never stuck with a complete albatross, because before long it’s an expiring deal and has value as such.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Apr 30, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Short Contracts
But they did offer Turkoglu a 5 year deal that everyone except Colangelo knew was absolutely atrocious.
Interesting, Zhiv, how you ascribe the Portland deal to Olshey...
I agree though, that while Camby’s a nice piece, he’s not a critical piece.
A swap of 2nd round picks.....
I remember the discussions on Clips Nation after the Brand fiasco….the question was whether the Clips would throw big money at Josh Smith. He was restricted, the Clips didn’t want to overpay, etc. Then MDSr pulled off the Camby deal and everyone was happy….not an actual pick, but a chance to swap 2ND Round picks for someone of Camby’s caliber. You really can’t argue the price the Clippers got for Camby. He served his purpose, his contract would expire in time for 2010. So things eventually feel into plan. Would Josh Smith be better? Probably…but Clips Nation wanted Cap Space at the time….
We will never know how much Camby could have netted a few moths ago….but the Clips certainly were not interested in taking on any more salary beyond 2010, so you can only get back so much for Camby, expiring contracts for expiring contracts. The fact that 3 mill is involved is irrelevant. Does it really matter that the Clips could have gotten better expiring deals/players and win a few more games? No. I don’t think they could have netted a first round pick off of Camby….GMs are not that stupid now.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
"Would Josh Smith be better?"
The answer’s not probably. The answer’s way way better. I gotta believe with Josh Smith in the starting lineup the Clippers would be an infinitely better team than they were the last two years.
Josh Smith and Baron Davis duo sounds pretty delicious
But those 2 under Dunleavy would probably not have meshed well and we would probably have the same problems Sixers had this year.
But with that, we probably would have still sucked enough to get Blake Griffin.
http://bcnbatalk.wordpress.com/ - Scoops on Hoops!
I have to put this somewhere - and another reason why I'm a Clips fan.
The refs gave the game to the Lakers yesterday. Kobe knocks a defender off his feet while his feet are planted for position, then the player scrambles up and barely (the slightest teeniest amount) “touches” Kobes hip. Kobe sinks the shot and the foul shot – a major three point gift.
Hey, if your not going to call the knock down – don’t call the touch. WTF?
Steve
When reading your article, I thought something was wrong when you were venting about losing this years Second Rounder in a swap to DEN because of the Camby trade. I was pretty sure at the time you were in correct, in that the swap isn’t so soon in 2010. DJ on ClipprBlog says we’re picking 24th with no mention of DEN’s right to swap picks.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 3, 2010 11:19 AM PDT reply actions
Quote
“•We’ll talk a ton about the Clippers’ lottery pick in the next few months, but what about the second round? Due to some earlier trades and pick swapping, the Clippers will select near the tail-end of the draft at pick 24. I’ve been trumpeting his case all year, but why not take a chance on Cal’s Jerome Randle? He was nearly a 180 shooter his senior of college, shooting over 40% from three and 93% from the free throw line. He was also the MVP of the Portsmouth Invitational last month. Draftexpress takes a look at Randle and decides it might not be wise to dismiss him because of his height. Other than dunking ability and a bestselling jersey in the league (ugh), what’s Nate Robinson have that Randle doesn’t?”
-DJ Foster/ClipperBlog
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 3, 2010 11:20 AM PDT reply actions
hmmm...
I think DJ and I are in agreement on this one…. the Clippers regular position in the second round based on record, would be 8th (38th overall). Instead, we are at 24th in the round, 54th overall, which is Denver’s spot. New York is picking 38th, as Denver subsequently traded our pick to the Knicks as part of the Renaldo Balkman deal. Make sense?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Ah, I see.
Clarification appreciated!
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's doing down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 3, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
54 is correct...
http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on May 3, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions

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