EJ's Breakout Year?
by ClippersUK on Aug 26, 2010 7:42 AM PDT
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PrintWhilst I've been very impressed with EJ since we drafted him 2 years ago,I felt that last year, he didn't take much of a leap forward from his rookie year. Now obviously, if we are honest, it's not exactly been a good couple of the years and so the lack of success, roster changes and chemistry issues certainly can't have helped the development of such a young player.
It also seems thats at this point in his career/life, he doesn't seem to have that aggressive streak to take charge of a game, demand the ball and showcase his skills at the end of the game (and his skill set is perfect for those crunchtime moments in that he can hit the 3 or can drive to hoop and finish with the +1). For me, that is partly due to how I percieve his character and partly because we have such a dominant personality in the PG position.
However, now he is mixing with a higher quality of player on Team USA, he seems to be thriving and the reports back, as I'm sure you have read, have displayed how impressed the coaching staff are with his skill set and work ethic.
I'm hoping that this added confidence in his own ability and the fact he has seen he can hang with some of the top players in the league quite comfortably will transfer back onto the court with the 2010/11 Clippers.
For this to transpire to it's fullest, we need Baron to understand how to get the most out of EJ's talents. I've been very critical of Baron's shot selection, especially in his first season but last year, his shot selection improved substantially, in my opinion.
Utilising the talents of EJ and Blake (as they will be the two main scoring options) will only help Baron get better looks also, as long as we can move the ball better, earlier in the shotclock.
However, it also relies on EJ himself pushing his personality onto the floor more. I think he could be one of the best crunchtime finishers in the NBA in the next few years.
The breakout of EJ on team USA and the return of Blake (arrival of Blake?) have got me very excited for the upcoming season. As long as Blake and EJ develop something along the lines we are expecting, there aren't many teams in the league that will have such a good 1,2 scoring option that aren't showcasing their talents on South Beach.
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I really hope so.
But I would add, it’s a bit premature to put a Gordon-Griffin scoring combo up in the areas where only few could match (namely in this case Miami). Just how effective a one-two punch we have remains to be seen. I would just be content with balance and overall team production… options are good and we lack them.
Yeah, I was getting a bit excited there!
I really meant in 2-3 years time when they have both developed and refined their games a bit more. They seem a great inside/outside scoring threat that have a great work ethic and a high level of talent. Let’s just hope they spend their most productive years in a Clippers uniform.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Maybe, but for me, it's not just the stats
It’s how he affects the game, his aggressiveness and ability to put the team on his back a bit when they are struggling.
I’d like to see him improve his rebounding also. He may be undersized but with that body he should be able to compete more – look at Craig Smith for instance. Having said all that, yep, I’d like him to average about 20ppg this season. What do you think Banandy?
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
I might be imagining things
But it seems like he crashes more, at least on the offensive end, for Team USA. Perhaps this is from the tutelage of Coach K, which would be a wonderful sign!
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 26, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, EJ is playing SF in FIBA!
There shouldnt be any reason why he can’t get more rebounds. But I always see EJ away from the basket getting ready to defend a fast break.
You are right
there isn’t any reason why he doesn’t get more rebounds. It comes down to effort and attention and sometimes EJ just zones on when it comes to rebounding.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe...
it was his coaches not getting through to him. Not saying I know this for a fact, because I don’t, but maybe he just wasnt inspired to work hard for Dunleavy and Kim Hughes…
I mean, would you be?
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
If I remember correctly..
Didn’t his game fall apart after Kelvin Sampson was kicked off the team as HC? If so, he has a track record of not playing his hardest after a coach is removed mid-season.
Hopefully Vinny can motivate all these guys to give it their all…
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
From what I remember
his production (and stocks) went down after his injury. Speculation has it that he played while injured, therefore leading to his slump during the second half of his college career. I think that’s why people were so skeptical of EJ. They were unsure whether EJ was the first half player or if EJ was the second inconsistant player.
I would say if EJ can average 18ppg, 4rpg, 4apg, and 2spg that would be a very good season.
It is going to be hard to average 20+ppg. Last year only 19 players in the NBA averaged 20+ ppg and ALL of them got more than 15 shot attempts a game. EJ got just 12.7 shot attempts last year and he was a 17ppg guy. If he can get to that 15 shot attempt mark he’ll do it easily.
If he gets 15 shot attempts next year he will.
It isn’t hard for him to put points on the board it is just hard for him to get the shots that are needed to get to that 20 ppg mark.
Good point.
I don’t have the stats but I would imagine he’s by far our most efficient scorer. It’s just making sure he gets the shots.
Realistically, he should probably take the most shots per game on this roster.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
I have been saying that since Jan of 2009.
If you look around the league the Clippers are one of only three teams that their center was the leading scorer. They include: Magic, Nets, and Clippers.
Dwight Howard is a beast no surprise he is the leading scorer for the Magic. The Magic utilize their big man and he knows when to kick out of a double team to the shooters.
Lopez plays for the Nets, he is one of their better players and he can get baskets easier than any other player on the team. Anyways, Lopez leading the team in scoring is not a recipe for success as the nets won just 12 games last year.
EJ is taking his talents to Turkey.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Be cautious with expectations especially when it comes to stats
I think his scoring will be similar to what we have seen. There won’t be zones so he won’t get as many open looks, and NBA scoring is still mainly dependent on 1v1 skills.
In terms of rebounding, EJ is usually the last man back and his first priority is to defend the fast break. So I don’t know how or if his role changes. I don’t think he will improve his rebounding much.
He won’t be the main ball handler, and I don’t think he is a great screen and roll option as he has trouble still with dribbling in traffic. So his assists will probably be about the same.
I do think that his confidence is growing, and it will show how much he has grown as a player by his assertiveness on offense. I would like to see him take over games when Kaman or Blake is getting doubled on the offensive low blocks. There were very few times last year where I felt he took over when Kaman was getting continuously doubled because he was our only scoring option.
I think most can agree that his mentality needs to be more aggressive (or maybe selfish?)
EJ led the Clippers in scoring 16 times last year.
The Clippers were 7-9 in those games.
In wins last year, Gordon averaged 18ppg, 49% fg, and 40% 3pt.
I hope VDN makes EJ the main scoring option next year and Kaman becomes more defensive minded, but at the sametime keeps his outside shot and when he is in the post learns to read the defense and pass out of double teams. Kaman could be much like a Joakim Noah of the Bulls. A double double man and a force in the paint on defense. I think this would be great for Blake’s game as well. Blake is going to need the ball more than Camby did in year’s past….so Kaman can’t be the main option for the team.
Oh man I wish Kaman would embrace that role
Sometimes I think it wouldn’t be crazy to trade Kaman for Noah, simply because I don’t know how much we need the scoring Kaman brings, as much as we need the other stuff Noah brings. But I dunno if Noah is as good as he looks sometimes. Kaman’s pretty consistent and I like that.
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 26, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
There's no reason not to expect Kaman's role to change this season
Kaman is one of a kind, and he’s not going to become Noah or any other center. But his career rebounding and blocked shot rates are fairly comparable to those of Noah. And the only time he’s been a primary offensive option is when the Clippers didn’t have better options. Kaman putting up 16 shots a game was far from ideal last season, but fortunately he has offensive skills and shooting range to use when he’s called on to fill a greater role in the offense.
But over the course of his career, he’s averaged over 10 shots a game only two seasons, the year Brand was hurt and last season. His role last season was the outlier, and as long as EJ and Griffin stay healthy and progress as we expect, there’s no reason to think Kaman won’t adjust, too.
scoring
It’s one of those little things, just one more make a game, hitting 5-8% more free throws, taking a few more shots, playing more games, being healthier. I remember back before Kaman became a shooter and we were looking closely at his FG%, the “Mr. Flippy” days, and SP always made a point about how different it would be if Kaman could just make one more layup per game, out of the 4 or 5 he routinely missed.
Gordon is clearly able to go up another level from his rookie season, maybe two or three from last year. It’s more about the team than his individual numbers. Getting that one extra rebound would make a big difference, and getting a couple rebounds from Ryan Gomes will help. Kaman and Griffin have to combine to make up for Camby (and Kaman) in that department. Those little things will make the team more competitive, and the scoring averages will follow.
One of the big things that was missing last year from Gordon were the monster, 30+ games. The season started on the funky No Griffin note, then Gordon got hurt. And he had moments, but he had a good number of really big games as a rookie. Colangelo makes the point: he can get to the place where you absolutely know he’s going to make his shot. If the team has enough other healthy weapons, he should be able to get it. So I’ll be looking for more 30+ point games. Not too many, but some.
Reminds me about the Kaman never scoring 30 thing. Hilarious wrinkle from last season. Kaman is just so odd.
by citizen zhiv on Aug 26, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
but what is his role?
I see the team as pick and roll team on the offensive end (surprise! much like the bulls).
I think Gordon will have a role much like Kirk Hinrich did under VDN.
I think we can expect Griffin to get around 15 shots a game. Kaman has proved that he deserves around 15 shots a game as well.
With the extra depth the team has I don’t see EJ’s attempts going that much further up. If anything it will be interesting to see how many more 3’s he takes as compared to 2pt fgs since Kaman and Blake will be good scoring options down low. Yes EJ will get more open looks, but at a lower percentage shot.
Like I said the growth I want to see with EJ is his demeanor. Last season the only people on the floor that snarled at other players was Baron, Kaman, and Camby. When things went wrong for EJ he always looked defeated.
"When things went wrong for EJ he always looked defeated."
Yeah I agree with that. His body language can be pretty bad. But I honestly don’t think that’s ever going to change. He is who he is. He isn’t suddenly going to become this fiery player who screams and gets in people’s faces.
He’s the guy who comes to work every day, does his thing quietly in the corner, you never hear from him, and at the end of the day he worked hard, did good work and you’re happy with his product. You need guys like that. You just need more than that from your #1 option. But that’s fine, I think most people realize he’s not a #1 option.
i think 20ppg would be a huge step up
and eric is definitely capable.
i think eric could be very capable of 20, 4, and 4 one day. i dont think that day is next season, but he can get there in a few years. the 20ppg might actually be easiest to attain.
For EJ to dominate scoring he has to be come a better passer
I envision this offense were Gordon is the first scoring option, with the ball swinging back to Baron to find Blake as the 2nd option, dumping back out to Baron were he will either create his own shot or find Kaman for quick dump in to score down low.
This can’t work for EJ if he does not become an efficient passer.
This reflects my thoughts of the scoring order while still letting Baron dominate the ball within a good structure as well as taking advantage of his decision making and court vision.
Gordon
Blake
Baron
Kaman
….This is the base template.
Having Blake as the 2nd option down low gives him every oportunity to try and dominate in way way or another offensively. Blake also suprised a lot of people last year with his great passing and vision. Kaman coming as the fourth is great for him and the team because it gives him the ball with little room to wiggle. He gets it as the fourth option with about 3-4 seconds left, you and he knows…he has to shoot, and he can shoot well down there with little hinderance from others in the league. Further more this 4th man option for him masks his weakness in passing out of the double-team, leaving that task for the much more capable Blake Griffin.
That will be one of Griffins greatest attributes towards making him a highly ofeensively involved player; passing out of the double-team, and this should illustrate Gordon’s need to be the same, in order to be among the best sg’s.
With Blake, Kaman and Gomes I see very little room to improve Gordon’s rebounding, perhaps at best by one but this should become balanced out by a healthy increase in assist.
by Takebb909 on Aug 27, 2010 7:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
your scoring pecking order is out of whack
this team will be a screen and roll team.
Kaman
Blake
Baron
EJ
Baron over EJ?
You realize that EJ averaged more ppg than Baron last year right? I doubt that changes as EJ continues to mature and Baron gets older. Baron will become more and more the facilitator. Not to say he won’t take his shots or that he’ll become like John Stockton, but his days being a 20 ppg or close scorer are over.
I think he’ll be where he was at last year, 15-16 ppg/8 assists, but hopefully his efficiency will improve as he has better options around him, and he’ll have more games where he can take over once in a while like he did in the Lakers game last year.
we are talking about attempts
isn’t that how pecking order is meant to be?
Baron was only a 20 ppg scorer because of the pace he played in GS.
He is right around his career averages. That’s why I don’t get why people keep on saying he has fallen off.
Gotcha
You said “scoring pecking order” so I took you literally. But I see what you’re saying.
However, it’s not true that Baron is the same as he was in GSW. The PPG and pace are related, but PER isn’t. And he’s far off from his PER in GSW, which were around 20, and even in his “bad” year was 18.3. You can’t just look at the traditional stats. He was a significantly better player in GSW and has clearly fallen off since he got to the Clips. I mean, his first year here, his PER was below average.
By way of example, Deron Wiliams put up a PER last year of 20.6 and we all know he had a great year. That’s where Baron was his last two years in GSW.
Now compare that to Baron’s 14.5 two seasons ago…that’s Mike Conley territory (13.9 last year, 14.3 two years ago).
well I usually go by per 36 from bball-ref
so it takes playing time out of it.
He has been pretty much on par with his career averages.
The Clippers have probably missed his prime years, but it isn’t like he is that much worse than a 22 year old Baron. The drop off in production isn’t as significant as our dear old friend EB, or a player like Emeka Okafor.
We have seen he can bounce back, who knows he might have something left up his beard…
Okafor?
I know Okafor wasn’t your main point, but he hasn’t fallen off either. That’s purely misperception. Since you prefer per 36 stats, his stats last season were very close to career averages per 36 (RB, BK, PPG, FG%).
2010 – 11.3, 1.9, 12.9, .530
Career – 11.3, 2.0, 14.5, .509
Okafor is a rock and about as steady a player as there is. He’ll always be underappreciated because he’s not Dwight Howard, but I wish he was still a Bobcat.
Does EJ's performance with Team USA have anything to do with a breakout year?
He seems so confident on Team USA. He isn’t questioning himself and his shot looks great. 16 points in today’s game vs. Croatia. EJ has now scored 82 points in FIBA play. That includes shooting 17-31 from 3pt.
I have said this from day one,but I just don’t think Baron has ever instilled any confidence in EJ. I hope this changes, but Baron is who he is. He isn’t a great motivator as he can’t even motivate himself for a full season like he did as a Warrior. Maybe EJ will come back with his own confidence and blossom w/o Baron doing or saying much to him, but EJ does need the ball to be as effective as we want him to be.
BD looked moltivated all the games he played last year.
I kind of find it funny how your a hardcore Gordon supporter and I support Davis thus far (not hard core because even i can recognize his flaws.) Just saying..
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
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