Woj reporting NJN and LAC as possible front runners in Melo Sweepstakes.
If we can pull this off, BD will be an expiring contact when CP3 hits Free Agency.............
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Imagine that
It would be pretty ridiculous if we managed to grab Melo this summer.
They reportedly want “young players and draft picks”.
As we’ve all discussed before, it would probably be something like Kaman, AFA and a future first. I really feel like that’s the best package anybody could offer. I think Kaman alone is the best they could hope for.
Fucking-a, I can never turn off my Clipper Optimism.
But if this goes down, I can’t wait to see all the FO bashers shove their hands in their pockets and look at the ground.
This would be utterly epic.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Assuming I'm one of those
Trading for Carmelo would be a far worse mistake than anything the FO has done in many years. Don’t think I’d be cheering the FO on in that case. Hope it never comes to that.
Acquiring Carmelo Anthony for Chris Kaman would be "a far worse mistake than anything the FO has done in many years".
What planet are you from??
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm just tired of this argument.
Seems people like ClipCat aren’t taking into account the intangibles. Trading for Carmelo might not win you a championship, but it adds LEGITIMACY to a franchise sorely in need of it. Whether true or not (and I’m speaking to stat gurus here), Carmelo is considered a Top 5 (certainly Top 10) player in this league.
We can’t get worse by adding Melo, we can only get better. The Clippers will actually win respect with this move. Anyone against it is not being rational. We’ve suffered so long. Beggars can’t be choosers. Carmelo may not be on the level of Wade or LeBron, but he’s damn close.
Wake up people.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed BUT
No way Melo is a top 5 player. Considered that by whom? HIs wife?
Lebron, Wade, Kobe, CP3 and Durant…maybe Dwight Howard. Melo isn’t anywhere close to those six. Top 10 might be a tough argument as well. After those six you’ve gotta throw in Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy and Dirk.
Having said all that, I still agree with your general sentiment. This team isn’t anywhere good enough to pass on even a top 20 talent. As long as they don’t have to give up too much, they have to do this deal.
I don't want to nitpick on where Carmelo stands in the NBA pantheon.
Looks like we agree on everything else. I’d say Pau can’t truly be considered Top 10, he’s done nothing on his own. We can at least say Melo has never missed the playoffs, during an era where where the Western Conference as been impossibly stacked.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Same argument kinda goes for Kobe
He won his championships with Shaq and Gasol. Other than that, he’s also done “nothing” on his own. But Bryant is ranked top 5 and Gasol should have a mention around top 10.
No, Kobe actually won playoff games in 05-06 and 06-07.
He even went up 3-1 on PHX before wiping out. Gasol never won a single playoff game. Not to mention Kobe was a scoring champion or damn close to it.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Melo is a great player
I don’t know or care if he’s ranked in the top five. He’s far better than just top 20 talent IMO.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Agreed..
When you’re rating a player against other players in this league, you cant just look at stats. You have to say, if his team were playing without him, how many games would they lose versus how many they’d win with him.
The Lakers would still be very good without Pau, but just good with Pau and no Kobe; CP3, Durantula, LeBron (on Cleveland; not on Heat) and Howard ARE their teams and without those players, their teams would be significantly worse. Ditto for the Nuggets without Melo. Thats why I too have Melo in my top 10, probably 7th overall in the league behind the guys I listed above and then Wade and D-Will
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
Kaman...
is a paper all-star; a product of how bad the rest of that team was. The guy has no idea he’s 7 feet tall and plays way too much outside of the paint on offense. His defense isn’t even average. I’d be thrilled to turn him and AFA and a pick into Melo; a superstar entering his prime.
However, if we end up giving away EJ or BG for him Im going to go nuclear…
"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling
I'd rather we trade EJ than Kaman (won't work salary cap wise though)
I love EJ, but DJ isn’t ready to start and our frontcourt would be the sickest with Melo, Griffin & Kaman. I think it’s harder to find a solid 7 foot all-star Center than a SG. We’d need a big big to go against the Gasol & Howard’s in the league and Kaman is decent at that.
Yes, I know this isn’t a popular thing to say right now but I think a team of
Baron,Butler/Foye, Melo, Griffin, Kaman > Baron, Gordon, Melo, Griffin, DJ
DJ is much bigger than Gasol (a PF)
and he might be one of the only centers (JaVale McGee?) Who can match up athletically with Howard.
He's a project that hasn't gotten better IMO
definitely not better to be even considered a starter. By default I would do the trade no matter what but DJ is not the answer. Bynum & Howard would break him, he needs work on everything.
Just saying
The athleticism is there. With the rest of this hypothetical starting five, he would really just need to finish oops, crash the boards, and play D.
Also, Bynum is too busy breaking himself to worry about breaking DJ :P
Kaman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DJ
DJ is athletic and can dunk really well, that’s about it. Even his blog is overrated.
Yay yay.
Really man, this isn't elementary school
There’s plenty of good information from me and others elsewhere in this thread and others like it for you to see where I’m coming from.
And you're comment is utterly hyperbole.
Trading for Melo is worse than drafting Olowandi First overall? Signing Tim Thomas? Passing on Danny Granger? Drafting Wilcox when we already had Brand?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
For you it's hyperbole, for me it's informed opinion
Olowokandi was a terrible bust, but that wasn’t entirely foreseeable when he was drafted.
Tim Thomas was a poor signing, but he wasn’t so terrible as a backup PF, which is what he was signed to be.
Not drafting Granger was a mistake made by quite a few teams.
Wilcox didn’t help the Clippers much, but had the pick been Amare nobody would have complained about drafting another PF.
But trading for Carmelo has the potential of setting back the franchise for many years by costing the Clippers a valuable center, promising young talent, a future lottery pick and cap space all for a vastly overrated player who is punking his current team worse than Brand ever did to the Clips. That qualifies as a landmark mistake.
Have you even been watching this team?
We’ve had “a valuable center, promising young talent, a future lottery pick and cap space” EVERY damn season.
Enough, Carmelo is a quantifiable value. A superstar in his prime. Who also happens to be incredibly popular.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Like how you ignored the first part of my comment.
I’d like you to respond to that.
Carmelo is a scorer, and a clutch on top of it. Dude averaged 28 points a game for a team that won 55+ games. When Rudy Gay does that, you let us know.
You know what you get with Melo. I’m not saying he’s perfect, but even his defense is improving. He played Kobe HARD during the 2009 WC Finals.
What’s more, you seem to be ignoring, is that Carmelo is more than stats. We cease being an also-ran when we get a name like that. Combined with Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon, that is a core that can mature into title contention sooner than later.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I agreed with your first statement. There was no need to comment because those are all good things to have. I also agree that Carmelo is popular and marketable. Most of the rest I disagree with. It’s ok to have a different opinion.
They are only good things to have
if we do something with it. We’ve had “a valuable center, promising young talent, a future lottery pick and cap space” so many times before and nothing has come out of it so why not take the chance to change history from repeating itself.
Carmelo is a low risk high reward opporunity point blank. He can get an injury riddle team (another thing the Clippers seem to always have) to the playoffs and isn’t that what we want in improving our losing history.
That’s why I was so disappointed to see the Clippers miss out on signing or trading for some of the options we discussed to death in the past.
Trading for Carmelo would be repeating Clipper history. This is like trading for Dominique Wilkins all over, glitz with no strategy beyond short term ticket sales. He does not improve any team that has to pay him max money and give up valuable assets to attain him.
And Denver has lost in the first round of the playoffs 6 of the 7 times they’ve been there with Carmelo. Considering the cast of players they’ve had, I believe they could have done better than that without Anthony.
And we've missed the playoffs 6 of the 7 times Carmelo has been in Denver.
Carmelo has brought wins to Denver. They were just as bad as Cleveland in the 2002-03 season. They had 8 consecutive losing seasons prior to drafting him.
During those playoff losses, they have had to face the Lakers (Lost in Finals), Spurs (Won Finals twice), Jazz (Nuggets had injuries, no George Karl) and Minnesota (Lost in Conference Finals). If you are going to get beat, it is best to be beat by the best. 4 of those losses are teams that went to the conference finals at worst, and 3 of them have won the championship. One playoff exit was in the conference finals to the eventual champions. The other playoff elimination was to the Clippers who simply were just too much ;)
It’s fine to not be a Carmelo Anthony fan. I haven’t been the biggest fan of his either due to the immaturity that he had shown earlier in his career. He’s definitely grown in my eyes. It’s not fine to just dump on him for no apparent reason. Maybe he doesn’t fill up the box score as other premier players, but he does bring the most important stat, which is Wins.
As far as Nique goes, he is one of my all-time favorite NBA players. When we acquired him, he was 34 (8 years older than Melo) and on the downturn of his career. He also had ruptured his Achilles only a few years back. Adding Melo would be nothing like that.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 28, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Dominique's career dropped off only after he left LA
Just before and during his time in LA, he continued to produce at rates very similar to his career averages, which are pretty comparable to Carmelo’s career averages. Wilkins is probably the best comp to Anthony that’s ever worn a Clippers’ jersey.
Of course Carmelo is younger and should have more productive seasons left than Nique did when the Clippers traded for him. But that is only a small consolation if Carmelo’s production brings the same results that Nique did. Though Wilkins put up numbers (29.1 PPG, .453 FG%, 7.0 RB) that would make Carmelo proud, the Clippers were a very bad team during his stay.
Meanwhile, Denver has regularly fielded a competitive team because of the players they put around Anthony – pass first PG’s and strong rebounders to clean up all the misses. The year Carmelo arrived in Denver 4/5 of the starting lineup changed. Andre Miller and Voshon Lenard were signed as free agents. And while Marcus Camby arrived the year before, he had missed most of the season. Only Nene, entering his second NBA season, was a holdover.
The Nugs have a pretty good but flawed team
Melo isn’t the perfect player. But he is a good player who does pretty well across the board (see his stats). I don’t really think Melo’s a good comparison to Nique.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
26 year old Melo vs 34 old Nique
the Nique situation was different. Both Nique and Danny were upcoming free agents and neither team was planning to resign them so essentially this trade was done just to trick the fan bases into seeing something new. So while Nique was purely a attempt to sell some tickets for half a season, Melo is young and entering his prime and could be part of a foundation for a good Clippers team (a team that could have consecutive winning seasons would be a first). Nique on the other hand was near the end of his career so while they are similar players in many ways, they would be coming to the Clippers are a completely different stage of their careers.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 30, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I agreed they were at different stages of their careers. And I’d agree that Wilkins in his prime was a better player than Anthony, just as Anthony is better than Rudy Gay. All three are still overrated SF scorers whose reputations far outweigh their value in regards to winning NBA games.
A 34 year old Wilkins put up stats equivalent to what Carmelo produced last season, and the team still failed. Wilkins wasn’t able to cause the Clippers to win games then, and Anthony won’t cause them to win games now. Today’s Clips would win more than in ’94, but that reflects the quality of the rest of the team.
Trading for Carmelo would be just as much an effort to trick the fan base into buying tickets to see a “star” as trading for Wilkins was. Only this time the Clippers would have to give up more and deal with the consequences longer.
I just can't agree with that take
Although I certainly respect it.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
let me help you out GfP
@clipcat
So you are saying it is a bad deal to trade Kaman for a younger, a better, a more fun to watch, a higher upside, and a higher market value player?
Ha. That's exactly what he's saying, Bacek.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, signing Carmelo as a free agent would be a terrible mistake
So trading for him is much worse. I view Carmelo as a more expensive version of Rudy Gay, the free agent I least wanted the Clippers to sign. If Gay isn’t worth his contract, then neither is Anthony.
But Anthony is better than Gay.
Since when did people start thinking that scoring is bad? Scoring more points than the opponent results in the victory. I find it fascinating that more people who rather have Battier than Anthony.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, Anthony is a little more productive than Gay
But they still are very similar players. I’m not against scoring, but I don’t like players that aren’t good for much other than scoring. That pretty much describes both Anthony and Gay.
If Gay could have been signed for $8-10M, then I’d have accepted it. Anything more would have been overpaying. Anthony is worth a little more but definitely not max money and definitely not max money plus what the Clips would lose in the trade.
Melo stats 2009-10
He kills it. And he’s a winner. Dont’ forget Syracuse NC.
28.2 ppg
3.2 assists per game (SF)
6.6 boards per game
46% fg
83% ft
1.3 steals pg
60 3pm
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
A max player looks more like
29.7ppg
8.6 assists per game (SF)
6.3 boards per game
50% FG
77% FT
1.6 steals pg
129 3pm
And that’s just the simple box score stats…
Hey aren’t you against stats? Or is this just more Jax dishonesty?
I’m a little ashamed for you that you don’t know this…
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
This is where you resort to manipulating stats
Just because LBJ is a max player doesn’t mean that other players don’t deserve the max as well.
If there were no max, LBJ would be paid more. He’s better than Melo.
The max is a salary restriction. I’m sure you know that.
So what are you saying – that Melo isn’t worth it?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not even close
I merely posted the same stats you used. Were they out of bounds or otherwise manipulated when you used them?
What a hypocrite.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
What are you even talking about?
Are you saying that LBJ is better than Melo? I think we all understand that.
Are you saying that Melo isn’t worth the max?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
"Not even close"
You don’t read so good?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
But what does that mean?
LBJ is the only player that deserves the max?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not the only one
Why would you put words in my mouth so?
Because you have nothing to say yourself?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Getting you to commit is like pulling teeth
Who else deserves the max in your mind?
CP3? Who?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Why are you so worried about me?
Such a strange man.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Because you will say anything
to argue
And you’re so easy to defeat it’s sporting.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Actually I won't
That you is projecting Mr. I Am Not Mobile.
Everyone knows what you are there…
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
u r really reaching
and you don’t realize that no one knows or cares what you’re talking about
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You sure seem to
You are a strange man.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
If you say so
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You responded to Jax first
And then refused to actually answer any of the questions he posed to you. What was the point of responding to him if you weren’t prepared to debate him honestly?
The truth is you never debate honestly with anyone who opposes your point of view. You dodge, you denigrate, and you bully, and then when none of that works you turn to childish crap like this “Why are you so worried about me?” post.
Further, your over-reliance on statistics without any regard to context doesn’t make you smarter than the rest of us. In fact, because it shows you’re utterly incapable of complex thought and lack the ability to weigh the relative merits of multiple criteria, it actually proves you to be less smart. But I guess it’s the crutch you need to feel good about yourself. How sad.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Interesting psychological analysis
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I can see John R frantically
checking stats to make sure that whomever he says deserves the max has “better” stats than Melo . . .
LOL
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Jax writing John R fan fiction now
Creepy.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Still waiting for the other players
you say deserve the max.
And while you’re at it, how much less than the max should Melo get?
While we’re at it, what is your criteria for paying the max? Statistics? Ability to sell tickets? What?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Carmelo is a winner, Gay is not
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Maybe, but I suspect that reputation (at the NBA level) has more to do with the teams they play on. Switch out Gay and Carmelo, and I believe Denver is still the team that makes the playoffs. But again, I’m not arguing that Gay is better, just that they are the same type of player, the type of player I’d prefer the Clippers avoided. I understand many other knowledgeable basketball fans disagree.
But I don’t get where your opinion that Carmelo is only a scorer is coming from. I posted his PER above and Jax posted all his stats. He’s a well-rounded offensive force.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup.
3.2 APG and 6.6 RPG apparently count for nothing.
Are we done here?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I gotta give that you
Those are more than Eric Gordon.
Ergo, CARMELO IS TEH GREETEST.
QED.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
This is where we disagree
Melo for example singlehandedly won an NC at Cuse. He plays stronger and bigger than Gay. He has to be double-teamed when he has the ball, creating tons of opportunities elsewhere.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well shoot he beat up on college kids
This proves he is a great NBA player!
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
We know that you've always labeled Melo "garbage"
Move along
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I did label him garbage
He has climbed up to be average!
So let’s give him a max contract!
Yay points! Yay he dominated 18 year olds who would never make the NBA!
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Can you please define "average" for us?
PPG? No
Boards as an SF? No.
Assists as an SF? No.
What is average about him? What was “garbage” about him?
Why so hostile?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I am hostile because you have worked so hard for so long to earn my hostility
What a strange question.
If those are the only things about basketball you understand, then it is clear why you are such a poor evaluator of talent.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Ah, deflection - you are afraid to explain yourself
What is “average” about Melo?
Don’t be a )(*&^%
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
His efficiency isn't good enough
And he isn’t stellar in any area.
Its not a deflection. I have posted those things all over the board. And I know you have read them. I guess I have to repeat myself for you to understand things now. That’s a new one.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Efficiency meaning what? PER? WOW?
Show us your precise statistical backup for your argument that he’s merely “average.”
Otherwise, just go.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Efficiency meaning efficiency
Look it up yourself. Alternately, I’ve posted it already. And you know it, but you are being disingenuous about that. Again.
Hey Jax are you mobile right now?
Alternately alternately, you could post why you think Carmelo IS efficient.
But you can’t because you would be easily rebutted and you won’t because you don’t know how.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Which efficiency stats
do you use to indicate that Melo is “average.”
Or do you not want to explain yourself to avoid ridicule.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I have already explained it
But feel free to say why you think he is efficient. Or if you even know what that word means.
This isn’t about advanced stats numbskull. Even you should be able to understand FG%.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Just trying to find out why you think he's average
There’s no way that he’s “average” based on normal stats. Sorry to disappoint you.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Proof?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
We are waiting for your "proof"
that he’s average. Given that we start out with 28.2 ppg, you’ve got a long road ahead of you.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
This is awesome
You guys have taken it to a new level. You’re not arguing bitterly at multiple spots in the SAME thread! It’s amazing.
Thanks guys. I needed some Friday reading.
Oh know
Not such dishonesty out of you too.
I thought you were better than this.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
=)
I kid..sorta. I thought your basic feeling is that he’s not an elite player like the others mentioned. I agree.
But at the same time, if I’m choosing between Kaman and Carmelo…I’m going Carmelo 10 times out of 10.
But this is not actually the choice
This is my concern.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
So, what trade package are you concerned with?
Griffin? Sure, I wouldn’t trade Griffin for Melo.
EJ + Kaman? Yeah, I’d be a little bummed about that to…
Or is it just the principle of no max for Carmelo?
Its not principle in relation to Anthony
Its a principle of don’t overpay for the wrong player.
Carmelo Anthony is welcome to join the Clippers. At a package around $8M per year.
You can’t get him for that, so you don’t want Carmelo Anthony.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
yeah, I would agree with Michael White then...
Even if Carmelo is the wrong guy for the Clippers, teams will trade for him regardless of whether he has a max or not.
If ZBo can be traded despite his payscale, then so can Carmelo…
From a bball perspective though, I think the team gets better.
See below
Look what the people are offering for him.
Aminu and Kaman.
That’s not a valuable trade asset.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
That's not?
a all-star Center with a decent contract, and two cheap rookies (Aminu and Bledsoe). They could trade Kaman pretty easily next year when he’s a big expiring contract and a valuable big for a contender. A savvy GM could turn Kaman into another 1st round pick.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
But wasn’t your position before, to spend more money so that you create tradable assets in the future and get cap exceptions.
I’m pretty sure the Clips going cheap (with Gomes and Foye) caused you to lash out against that strategy.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
This is conflating two issues
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I’m not sure it is. You like Melo more than Kaman. You have reservations about paying Melo max money. But doing so creates the particular scenario (I thought) you advocated previously.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Is the plan to trade Carmelo soon?
Flip-this-All-Star?
If it isn’t then how could he become a tradable asset? What would you get with Carmelo?
Also, I am not sure I like Anthony more than I like Kaman. Its very close. Its not a clear trade for me and that doesn’t clarify things.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I mean look what people here are offering for Carmelo and thinking it is going to work
You consider Anthony a valuable asset right now to the Nuggets?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Teams have more leverage now. He’s in his walk year and everybody knows he’s not re-upping with Denver.
Besides, accumulating high salaries as assets to trade doesn’t have to return top talent. If I understood your point correctly it also allows the team to use exceptions and Melo is tradable enough that even if you don’t get a ton for him you could divest if you want/need to.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's get one thing clear
Are you advocating the Clippers acquire Anthony primarily for this reason?
Or are you trying to tell me why I should be for it?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I'll take shot at this...
No. We should get Carmelo purely for basketball reasons.
Worst case scenario is that we have a max contract obligation for 3 years (extension) and the team sucks with Carmelo.
The add’l rationale is made because Carmelo is seen by and large throughout the NBA as a max player even if you don’t. Therefore, he is a good tradeable asset.
I agree
I frankly don’t care whether he’s a “max player” whatever that means. I know that he’s a good basketball player who would make our team better than it would have been without him. For a number of reasons.
He’s worth what the market will bear.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Except when a team is trying to unload him
Like right now, or the Clippers would be then.
It doesn’t work.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
No. I want Anthony to play basketball.
I’m saying its the exit strategy if things go poorly.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if its the exit strategy
Then it means the Clippers will be in the position the Nuggets are in now. Just like the Clippers were able to unload Randolph, but for pennies on the dollar.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Dunno
I think a mid lottery pick (Aminu) a mid 1st round pick (Bledsoe) and a 28 year old solid center with a reasonable contract seems like a decent haul for a player who will leave in a year.
Lots of teams would trade for him… thankfully James Dolan is always looking to give up a ton for a big name.
This deal makes sense. The big caveat course is DTS will have to be willing to get near the luxury tax one day when EJ and BG will actually get paid market value. But right now the Clippers suck and were looking at a mid-30 win team this year (and probably next year with no significant cap space) so unless you are hoping the Clippers luck into another sure-fire lottery pick the Clippers ceiling right now is pretty low for the next 2-3 years.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
The Syracuse team
had Hakim Warrick and McNamara.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
And?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Dunno the rest
but he certainly didn’t win it all by himself like you said. It was a impressive run anyways, Syracuse was only a 4 or 5 seed and won it all.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Without him they do not win
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well duh
without Warrick or McNamara they don’t either. Warrick was a 1st round pick himself and has been a decent pro and McNamara was a Big East great. I remember when McNamara went unconscious during the title game and blew the game open in the 1st half.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Carmelo had a Danny Manning like tournament
His one year was one of the greatest years of College hoops of all time.
There was even debate about whether he should be the first pick.
He has been disappointing as a pro compared to expectations.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
That's a bit harsh
He should have been the 2nd pick in the draft but the mystery kid from Europe had even more buzz. The 1st pick of that draft was always going to be Lebron. I imagine the Pistons would still be a elite team with multiple championships had they selected Melo instead of the Human Victory Cigar.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 30, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
wow you are just a Melo hater
I decided
That’s fine everyone has a bias on certain players
He's right and wrong at the same time
Melo isn’t a true max player. At least in the sense you are getting short changed when Wade and James are being paid the same (actually less) but are clearly better players. But John R has to understand the reality that the Clippers can’t even sign a Josh Childress for $8 million a year so what will the Clippers be able to do?
But this move works because Melo is a big name and a good (not great) player that will help recoup the money spent at the box office. That is crucial because we have one of the cheapest human beings alive at owner so this has to be a consideration. DTS won’t spend the money unless he knows for sure he will make it up and the bump in ticket sales will encourage him to do so.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I would give them Bledsoe
instead of a future 1st. Not even sure the Clippers even have a future 1st to give up anytime soon besides the Minnesota pick.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they are going to....
try to unload JR Smith too. I really would not want to give up Blake or EJ. If we do decide to get rid of Kaman we need a decent replacement. I do not think that DJ is ready to be the starting center IMO.
This is a must look at for the FO… players like Melo are few and far between. He is one of—- if not the best—- mid range shooters in the game. They want young players and picks and we have both.
Ideally, keep BG, BD, EJ, and Kaman and insert Melo in there. I just know that will not work with the salary cap!
DJ wouldn't be terrible as the starter. Just needs to defend, block, and dunk.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Just like Camby and Nene and Martin and Anderson...
Hmm, maybe he does need more than that.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Yes, he does.
A two-guard who can shoot. Check.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus, Martin and Nene were hurt much of the time and Anderson (bench) was out
But I guess the facts don’t matter to those who think he’s “garbage”
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Holla.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, the two of you have chosen a pair of non-facts
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
You're right - Carmelo is "garbage" and EJ is "below average"
Too bad EJ’s performance has wow as a confirmed kill
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
Ah, better change that subject.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
So EJ is still "below average" in your mind
I hope you study what’s happened here so you can see the error of your ways. Don’t worry we will welcome you with open arms.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Where is here?
He hasn’t played an NBA game since I made the comment, so yeah, he is still below average.
Your opinion of players changes daily during the offseason? What a weird thing to do.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I think you're the one
who held that opinion. I merely said that if you take the basic stats you referenced, you could argue that he was “below average.”
However, I also pointed out that the statistics meant nothing and that you obviously meant to use the term to incite.
Which worked. Now that he’s playing well with other good players, your shallow attempt to incite has been exposed for what it is, as is your slavish devotion to wow.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
So you did change your opinion based on a few exhibition games.
You are as irrational as advertised.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
What position did I change?
I never thought he was below average. I wouldn’t ever judge a player solely by cherry-picked statistics. And I don’t think the statistics you quoted justified your interpretation. That’s your forte.
I think that players have to be judged in part by the systems the play in and the players surrounding them. The anathema to your WOW. I think EJ and the Team USA experiment has exposed the extreme folly of that particular statistical service.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Right
So you think 3 exhibiton games mean something, and something very significant it seems. That’s a failure to think on your part.
Hey Jax its been pretty warm in LA this week. Are you in a global warming fit? Or is your tiny sample irrationality limited to basketball?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
by John R on Aug 26, 2010 9:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We're making progress
You no longer repeat your false argument that I actually endorsed your incorrect view.
And you concede that my argument about EJ is correct, you just quibble over the sample size.
Next
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
The problem is you believe you can form an opinion based on a small sample size.
Which is to say, you are an idiot.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
FYI
whenever you resort to namecalling, you’ve lost.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Aug 27, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jax has been pushing for the pick up basketball game for a while.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I guarantee you Clipper Steve won’t be stepping into take a charge against me!
I also vow to bang on my chest like DJ every time I do something positive.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I've met you...
I’ve taken charges from much bigger dudes than you. It’s my specialty.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 27, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
Roger Sterling: To my knees, Don. They're bringing to my knees!"
by Lawler's Law on Aug 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
At least make it exciting!
Make it a mud wrestling match where
before every round they can take shot
at each other based on manipulated
stats. We can set it up and the rest of
us just enjoy by having some beers.
I also think their would be a few other
fellows that would want to wrestler
John R.
mud wrestling?
Really..? I understand we’d want to watch it if it were females, but please…. I want to see a real fight. Not guys hugging each other on the ground…
I only resort to it
After you resort to dishonesty.
You admitted you lost, so what’s the point of me trying?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
If you say so, my man, if you say so
A little one-on-one perhaps?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
A little childish perhaps?
You want to meet me on the playground after school at 3pm?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
We could do it for charity
Although it would be a little one-sided. I doubt you’ve ever picked up a basketball.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Being childish for charity
makes it ok?
Grow up.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
To be fair Jax, you did play professional basketball.
I’ve picked up a few basketballs before, but I doubt I’d stay competitve with you. Depends how old you are I guess as I might have youth on my side.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No I didn't
I’m just trying to find something that John R wouldn’t be afraid of. Turns out he’s afraid of competition. Not surprising for a bully.
Since he claims to be so knowledgeable about basketball, that would seem to be a natural place to start. Not surprisingly he won’t go there.
Apparently competition is childish for the yellowman.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Purely illogical
And very childish.
Much like you believe you should evaluate NBA talent based on how the player performed half a decade ago against college kids, or in 3 exhibition games against non-NBA players.
Thinking is hard.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Now you're putting words in my mouth
Competition is childish to you.
Stated another way, when it comes right down to it, you’re afraid.
Why are you an NBA fan? Apparently the competition is not the reason because that’s “childish.” So that you can spout off on an NBA board?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You see an internet message board as about competition?
You are misguided in more ways than one.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I could have sworn you said you played professionally overseason. Sweden or Finland or something.
by Michael White on Aug 27, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah
I played some in Finland but not professionally.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
What a failure
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
I was over there on a Fulbright - I think I did ok
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And yet here you are
Challenging random strangers to basketball games.
I stand by my statement.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Why are you afraid to be a man and compete?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Have you ever played pickup basketball?
People compete every single day.
Even grown ups. Imagine that.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
People meet at basketball courts to play basketball
MOST people come to a basketball message board to TALK about basketball.
Did you post twice because you see how childish you look here?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
We get your MO
You relentlessly attack and childishly denigrate others, but when they push back you retreat into your corner like a little biatch.
We get who you are.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Awww, biatch!
So cute! Not at all childish!
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Yes
Since JR Smith didn’t have 3 years better than Gordon’s best year while they have played together.
Checkmate?
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
JR Smith worries me though
He SHOULD be incredible. He’s comparable to Gordon, but he has a better handle and more of that “killer instinct,” a term that’s become so popular lately.
But he’s also a wild cannon that is a poster boy for “the statistics don’t tell the whole story,” and not in a good way. For me, he’s not good enough to be the “wild guy” on the team. Lakers have Artest, Jordan’s Bulls had Rodman, and those guys are both a lot better than JR Smith. If I had to pick a crazy, tatted-up guy to be on my championship team, I’d take Chris Andersen or Kenyon Martin over JR Smith, I think.
Although, I read a great story about JR Smith helping out a disabled girl and being really sweet to her and stuff. I think off the court he’s probably a great guy, but he’s kind of bi-polar on the court.
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 26, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The first thing I thought about regarding JR and his latest transgression was that girl, Hannah.
She was diagnosed with an incurable disease and formed a bond with JR Smith. I’m sure she and her family appreciate everything he did for and with her, but I’m sure it was disappointing for them hear about his latest incident. I’m hoping that he will get everything together before it’s too late. He’s been blessed with an amazing opportunity and I would hate to see him blow it.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 26, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Well said
Yeah I heard about that story too. It made me like him a lot more when I found out he was such a good guy.
It was heartwarming
To say the least…
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 27, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Umm, J.R. also killed a guy by running a stop sign......
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Read the whole thread...
That’s what L4e was referring to as “his latest transgression”. Jeez, I’ll let you guys have Carmelo if you just leave J.R. Smith out of the mix. Please!
No, the latest transgression is choking a player out at their practice facility.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Which happened like yesterday, bro.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
So that means he isn't a better shooter than Gordon?
(He is a better shooter than Eric Gordon)
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
Last year wasn't close
Throw in the fact that JR doesn’t play much D and EJ is the winner by a fair margin.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Kaman, AFA, and a pick would work, but we wouldn't have cap space for another center above the min
Can we imagine DJ and Skinner holding down the 5 for now? I’d want to insist on Gomes for Birdman in the same deal. We’d have to wait ’til Dec then.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Well, for Carmelo Anthony, we could make due.
If the deal is Kaman, AFA and pick I wouldn’t be insisting on anything else.
Of course this assumes an extend and trade…
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
DJ will be fine for a season starting, especially paired with Griffin.
He has to make the leap eventually. Baptism by fire doesn’t sound like the worst route to success.
And if Dampier is made available, given the chance to start on a contender, he could take the min.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe. Interesting point.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I think DJ would be a disaster as a starter, but for Carmelo Anthony paired with BD, EJ and BG it wouldn’t matter.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And if Dampier is made available, given the chance to start on a contender, he could take the min.
I highly doubt that. And if that’s the case, why wouldn’t he just go to Miami right now? No state tax, gets to play with the title favorites? That’s definitely more a “contender” than the Clips would be even with Melo.
I'm banking on Dampier still hating MIA for ruining his one shot at a title.
(Sarcasm)
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Clips can offer a few mill more
if they get the Nuggets to take Bledsoe. That’s 1.5 mill more to throw at Damp. That would bring the Clippers cap number to 53.1. Whatever we have left we offer Damp for a one year deal. Next year go after Tyson Chandler hard. Maybe trade Minnesota pick, Baron and Foye/Gomes for CP3.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
We'd have to sign Dampier before a trade
This is the only way we can offer him more than the veterans minimum.
Explain?
Once the trade is made (w/ Bledsoe), we’d have cap space. So what would be stopping us from offering more than the min?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I'll do my best
Say we have about $4.9 million is space right now. Trading Kaman, Aminu, and Bledsoe (about $15.2 million) for Melo ($17.2 million). We’d be down to about $2.9 Million in cap space. I’m guessing there’s someone out there that has mid level money left that will offer him more than $2.9 million.
Right now we can offer Dampier all of that $4.9 million to put us at the cap. We can still trade Kaman and Aminu for Melo do to the 125% rule.
I’m pretty sure this would work.
Thanks... I see what you're thinking.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt to have Damp, even if the Melo trade fell through. This sounds like one of those over-the-cap exceptions that I keep meaning to read up on. It would be pretty clever, too.
For the record, we’d be able to offer $2.9M the other way, which at least is more than the min.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I'm too tired to look it up
isn’t the cap at $58 million? Or is it $57 mill?
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
$58M... I just looked it up
So alright, would there be $3.9M available? I’m too tired to add now.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Would make it 4.9 million
If the Clips are at 53.1 million right now. Maybe a little less since we have to factor in a cap hold or 2 from doing a 3 for 1 deal.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt ANYONE offers Damp 4.9 mil.
His best case is joining the Heat at the Vet’s min. We would only need to offer like a mil more
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Not true
he’s actually a very good defensive player. The point differential when he is in and out of the game with the Mavericks was ridiculous.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes. But he's 35.
Shaq didn’t get 4.9 mil, but Damp will?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 7:55 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Damp didn't take $2.2 Mil the Cats offered
that’s why they signed Brown. Hope Erika the Bum doesn’t get another contract for being arrogant.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Still?
He’s kind of… ssslllooowww now… I guess 1-on-1 he’s pretty good at stopping the Dwight Howards of the world.
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 27, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Its in the numbers
The Mavs themselves acknowledged it last year when they compared Dampier to Drew Gooden (who was on the Mavs before being traded to the Wizards then to the Clippers).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally, I'd prefer Earl Barron
He’s cheaper and younger than Dampier, and actually has an offensive game, including a midrange J. We need a guy who can keep opposing defenses honest. With Dampier, you can leave him open unless he’s in position for a dunk (hey, sounds like DJ!) and that makes it harder for the other guys to get good looks.
Barron had a nice run with the Knicks toward the end of last season. Granted, it’s a small sample size, so if you know something bad about him that I don’t, please chime in.
Regardless of whether it’s Barron or some other guy filling that role, I don’t like the idea of signing Dampier because he’s old, injury prone, and an offensive liability.
by Raining Buckets on Aug 28, 2010 9:39 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Interesting idea. Good thinking on Bledsoe.
I’d do Kaman, AFA, and Bledsoe for Melo, for sure.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Substitute "work in" for "insist on." I'd probably go with a hole at center if we had to.
Would you be willing to throw in the Minni pick, if need be?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
It would be nice to
Throw in Kaman, whatever bench guy (Butler, Gomes, etc) and a clipper 1st round pick and save that Minny pick and pick up a center!
does anyone know the trade rules for our first round picks?
if they’ll potentially go to oklahoma? Are they untradeable for the next 5 years?, or can it just be put in that they get the next one we have (either in the lottery, or 2 years after OKC gets there’s?)
Top 10 protected from 2012-2015, Uprotected in 2016.
If we have the 11th or lower (i.e. 11-30) in 2012, we give OKC the lesser pick between our own and the pick from Minnesota.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 26, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't think we can trade those picks
I think the only pick we can trade is the 2011 one. Technically we could have zero picks in 2012.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
It can be a little complicated.
We can’t just trade the 2011 pick, because we potentially owe the 2012 pick to OKC. We’d have to have a lot of stipulations in the trade agreement.
We could give up our 2011 draft pick if Minnesota picks 1-10. Since we would then have Minnesota’s 2012 pick no matter what, we could then give Oklahoma City our 2012 pick.
The rule is that you must have a 1st round pick every other year. It doesn’t necessarily have to be your pick. If we give up our Minny pick, then we likely have 0 picks in 2012. If we give up our 2011 first round pick, we’ll have the 2012 Minnesota pick.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 26, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
You're better at this than I, L4L...
But I think you simply can’t trade both the Minny pick and the 2011 pick. You have to keep one or the other. If the Minny pick comes up in 2011, then your hole is 2012, if the Minny pick comes up in 2012, then your hole is 2011. And you can’t trade the 2013 at all.
You're exactly right. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.
We can trade either our 2011 pick or the Minnesota pick, but not both.
Oklahoma City is likely going to redeem the pick that we owe them in the year 2012 regardless of if we trade for Melo or not.
We’re left with our 2011 pick and Minnesota’s pick in either 2011 or 2012.
__
Here’s the best possible scenario for us…where we don’t get the rights to Minnesota’s pick until the 2012 Draft:
We could trade our own 2011 pick to Denver. Our own 2012 pick goes to Oklahoma City. We finally get to use Minnesota’s draft pick in 2012.
Under this scenario, we could technically trade our 2013 pick away, because we will have had a first round pick in 2012 (Minnesota’s). We could then potentially trade 2 first rounders to Denver (Our 2011 & 2013 first rounders) instead of our Minnesota pick. Now, Denver may not agree to it, but it would truly be the best thing for us.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 26, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing about protected picks
Is that they’re either conveyed the first year it’s not protected, OR the teams clearly outline in the trade when the pick would be conveyed for trade purposes.
As I understand it, the OKC pick never loses protection. Instead, if OKC doesn’t get the pick in a few years, they never get it (correct me if I’m wrong about the reported details of that pick). So 2012 is only relevant for the OKC pick if they explicitly stated so in the trade.
This analysis is only difficult b/c we lack info (as in we don’t know when the OKC pick has been identified as being conveyed). Otherwise it would be a lot more straight forward.
Some OKC newspaper said our debt would dissolve after 2017.
On RealGM under GM Resources/Future Draft Picks, it states that the pick is Top 10 protected from 2012-2015. In 2016, the pick is fully unprotected and would go to OKC.
It also says that if we gave our pick to OKC in 2012, while also receiving Minnesota’s pick…OKC would get the pick of lesser value. That is probably why Olshey told Steve that the protections on the pick were complicated when Steve asked if it was the Minnesota pick that was traded to OKC.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 26, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info
Hard to know exactly what the truth is huh?
Either way, it seems unlikely that 2012 would be the date of conveyance. If indeed the pick loses protection in 2016, then that would be the date of conveyance for trade purposes. At least that’s my understanding of it from Larry Coon.
Is there a reason you’re using 2012 as the conveyance date for the OKC pick?
I'm just assuming that we'll have satisfied our debt at that time.
In writing, it may very well be written up differently in a trade agreement. I just don’t expect us to be a team that ends up with a top 10 pick in the draft 2 years from now.
For us to trade a future “Clipper” pick to Denver for Carmelo will be a bit complicated, depending on when we receive the Minnesota pick.
Theoretically, we couldn’t trade our own pick until 2018, which would be 2 years after the 5 year period of us owing a pick to OKC would end. In realty, our ability to trade future picks depends largely on what happens to our pick from Minnesota. If we were to trade future “Clipper” draft picks, there would have to be specific language alluding to our next eligible pick or something like that.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 27, 2010 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions
The Minni pick is too valuable
I wouldn’t give it to Denver, unless we got even more in return.
Kaman, Gomes, and Minni pick for Melo and Anderson. Throw in AFA or Bledsoe (not both) if we have to.
I believe we have to include Gomes or Foye to make the numbers work. Again, this means waiting until December.
Otherwise, do Kaman, AFA and a non-Minni 1st rounder for Melo.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
You are telling me that you would let AFA, Bledsoe, Minny pick or Anderson keep you from landing Carmelo Anthony? Why? Losing any of those things is no huge loss. Would the current team be better than a team without AFA or Bledsoe compared to a team with Carmelo Anthony?
You must really love draft picks for some reason, I’d rather have the superstar.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I might be going overboard here a little bit, but for Carmelo I would basically ask Denver to make an offer which doesn’t include Blake Griffin and then I would say “yes.”
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Cool enthusiasm, but I'm not so on board
The Minni pick is going to be a high lottery. Sure it’s trade-able, but let’s not be cavalier about it.
This looks like a poll question: “Kaman, AFA, and the Minni for Melo, thumbs up or down?” That’s too rich for me… Though admittedly I’m not that big a Melo fan to begin with.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
honestly, I see AFA turning into that defensive stopper we all have been asking for
We have plenty of offense. Do we need another guy launching 20shots per game?
The Clippers don’t have plenty of offense. In case you haven’t noticed, they are a bad basketball team.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I envision Carmelo being another ZBO
Sure the guy can get buckets but will that add to our win column?
That's music to Michael White's ears
he loves ZBo ;)
Melo’s team have always made the playoffs. Perhaps he doesn’t carry a team like Lebron can but he’s also made the playoffs every year which should count for something.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Almost
I agree with your sentiment, but you can’t give up the house. It’s relative to what others can offer right? It’s not like there are other teams who can offer amazing packages for Melo.
I think the Clips are uniquely positioned to be able to put together a really good package. But you don’t have to give up everything.
Agreed. I understand the gamesmanship involved in the negotiating process. My point is I wouldn’t hold up a deal based on wanting to protect any Clipper asset except Blake Griffin.
I wouldn’t literally trade the house and the salary cap wouldn’t let you anyway. Just going overboard to underscore my position.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade the Minny pick
The Jazz had the ever valuable Knicks pick in this past draft. They had plenty of chances to unload it in deals, but chose to hold on to it. That pick turned into Gordon Hayward.
That pick is meant to be dealt in the right deal.
Emphasis on "right"
I’d do Kaman and the Minni pick for Melo, if only the numbers worked. Throw in AFA, though, and you’re giving up 3 lottery talents for a guy who doesn’t play much defense… and who will cost us more than Manny Ramirez.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Bledsoe instead
gives us more cap space to sign a stand in center. Otherwise we have to sign Josh Boone or Etan Thomas.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't Kaman+the Minny pick work?
Kaman’s salary is at 11.8 so if you apply the 125% rule you have 14.75 in outgoing salaries. Melo’s salary is at 17.1 so I would think you could fill the rest of the salary gap with the Clipper’s cap space.
Doesn't work that way
Can’t combine the two rules.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh the heartache!
We’ll have to trade our beloved B-Cook (After Dec 15 of course)
Seriously though
That kind of thing is an annoying inconvenience. Is Warren’s contract guaranteed? It should fill the gap for that trade, not that it would happen.
This is something that confuses me.
Larry Coon told me on twitter that teams under the cap can use the 125% +$100K rule if it works to their benefit. I need for him to specify if that means that only the player salary traded out (e.g. Kaman) would count or if player salary traded + the cap space (i.e. Kaman + TPE).
Under the 125% +$100K rule, you only need to trade out around $13.6M to acquire Anthony.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 27, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
That's right
but that’s if you were over the cap. You can’t then add the 3-4 million in cap space left to cover the difference.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
If you have the opportunity you have to take the game changer
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Sure.
That pick was made for trading. If we can keep it, I’d still send it to MN for the rights to Rubio.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
It makes no sense to insist on retaining the Minny pick. At best, we get a lottery talent in 2 years. Carmelo already IS a lottery talent, oh, and he’s in his prime, a bonafide superstar, and a Top 3 Small Forward.
If it’s Kaman, Aminu, and the Minny pick I don’t even look in the rear view mirror.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
That's too much
give them the Clippers 2011 pick or the rights to Bledsoe.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Is it too much when
the Nets can offer Murphy, Favors, and Williams. That’s an expiring contract, a guy who was just the 2nd pick in the draft, along with a young SF that started to look really good at the end of last year.
We’d be offering a center who has a pretty expensive contract, a SF who looked awful in summer league, along with picks that may never be that high.
Is that what the Nets are offering?
Then yea, they outbid us.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
But...
Melo might not want to go there since that team is missing even more pieces than the Clips.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if that's what they're offering
They’d have a core of Harris and Lopez to put around Melo though. It’s not bad.
I just think we shouldn’t be afraid to throw in future picks to give us a great young core of Carmelo, Griffin, and Gordon.
It's true that the bidding context could change things
I’d still want to have a ceiling in mind, though. In the final analysis, Kaman, AFA, and the Minni pick might fit underneath, but I’d be groaning about the squeeze.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
So who is untouchable?
EJ, Blake, EBledsoe should be offlimits.
AFA, Kaman, and next years 1st rounder should get er’ done!
it might have to be Sota pick..
but I’d still do it
Is that even valuable anymore since he signed his new deal in Europe?
i really wanted him to be on our team : (
Theoretically
I wouldn’t say anybody is particularly untouchable.
Practlically, I can’t imagine a trade where Griffin leaves would make sense, so I assume Griffin is untouchable.
I’d like to keep EJ but would get over it. NFW that Bledsoe is untouchable.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
bledose untouchable....
why ??? it’s carmelo anthony, it’s a premium talent who would carry us to the playoffs, give us respect and could help us land CP3 when he becames a FA
I saw Bledsoe in summer league and i liked what i saw.
He matched JWall play for play when they faced off. Sure he had 8 turnovers but so did JWall. I dont think we need to include Bledsoe to get Melo anyways imo.
If New Jersey really offers Lopez
Melo will be a Net. We can’t make a deal better than that unless we included Gordon with Kaman which i’m opposed to.
If the Nets trade their best piece
why would Melo agree to go there?
A few years ago Kobe said he wouldn’t go to the Bulls if Deng was sent back the other way.
I'm sure Melo would love playing in front of empty crowds on a talentless team in Newark.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"We're just the same old Clippers. That's all we are. We're just the same old Clippers. We want teams to continue to take us lightly."
- Sam Cassell
woj is reliable
would gladly trade kaman, aminu, + minny’s 1st. enough of talking about the future, this is NOW.
between blake and melo, we’ll have enough post options to hide DJ’s incompetence.
Push for Bledsoe
instead of the Minnesota pick. Maybe the rights to swap picks with the Clippers from 2012-2016 (OKC has priority of course).
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I would give up good value for Melo. But I kind of doubt the FO will.
To swing back the other way with my argument, I hope that we don’t drive too hard a bargain. I vaguely suspect the Clips have more “untouchables” than any of us would want to include.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Probably true
given how cheap BG, EJ, DJ, AFA, EB and WW are those guys probably are untouchable…
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate the trade but I think (and hope) the only untouchables would be BG and EG.
I think the FO office would jump at a chance to dump Baron but that’s a scary reality.
Melo would have to sign an extension first
The only way I would do a Kaman package for Carmelo Anthony is if he signed an extension first.
Kaman as a center with an good contract is to valuble for the risk of loosing Antony in a year.
I think everyone would agree
I know I’m taking that as a given
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Then I wouldn't hesitate
… but i don’t think Denver would do it.
Reading Denver stiffs there is a thread Wojnarowski: Nuggets and Melo parting ways appears to be inevitable… Where someone even suggested http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3a8wuns
The only thing that bothers me aobut Carmelo is that we’re trying to build a culture around BG that i really like and i kind of feel that Carmelo would mess things up… but… stilll… I would do it…
Wow...
HARD PASS
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 26, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I wish it didn't take a day to sign up on other blogs
So i could tell them to screw off. Thats our entire team
by MagnusVonKilgore on Aug 26, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
they are very funny though
i read some gordon,griffin,kaman for melo,smith and a second rounder. i mean are they serious??, the best player they could get in a trade is gordon.
Denver fans are unclear on the concept
If they try to gut us on the trade, then Melo won’t cooperate on his end. For this to work at all, our remaining roster needs to be appealing. I don’t see how Melo signs on w/o Griffin as a teammate, much less Griffin and Kaman. I mean, come on.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Completely agree on Griffin. I have to assume that is the reason why Melo would agree to the extension. No team is stupid enough to trade for Melo without the extension on the front end so he essentially has a no-trade clause. He would not allow the Clips to gut the roster.
by Michael White on Aug 26, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
i think FO gonna mess this one up
I’m pretty sure DN want BG in the deal. And throw us bk with kenyon or Bird man in the mix
by LAClippers1983 on Aug 26, 2010 6:27 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
feel the same
or melo will look at a picture of donald sterling and vomit immediately
but moreso that they'll mess up
and a trade wont go down at all
I understand that the Nuggets fans are upset,
but some of them are making ridiculous statements and trade ideas. Like as a revenge move to make Melo sit out the year instead of getting picks. I mean, say what you will about honor etc., that’s a stupid move basketball wise.
They also seem to misunderstand the point of trading him. It’s not a straight up trade like normal. They are dealing him for assets. They pretty much lose him no matter what, they can’t leave without a trade when this is all done. The fact that they talk about BG, EJ, and Kaman for Melo with a mediocre attitude about it is laughable.
I’m on the Kaman, AFA, Minny train. Or next year’s first round instead of minny.
"Yayyyy! The Clippers got a coach, we will win now!" - My girlfriend.
This seems like a fair trade all around…
Clippers get: Carmelo Anthony
Nuggets get: Gerald Wallace + Erick Dampier + Al Farouq Aminu + Minny Pick
Bobcats get: Chris Kaman + J.R. Smith
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5679515
- Nuggets get a REALLY good replacement SF (Wallace), a salary dump for J.R. Smith (they can waive Dampier), a lottery pick from this year (Aminu), and another pick that is almost a guaranteed lottery pick (Minny pick).
- Bobcats get a starting center that virtually duplicates the production of Wallace (Kaman), and a capable starting SG who averaged 15ppg last season (Smith).
- Clippers get a superstar SF
I don’t think Denver would get a better offer than this, but we’d have to get Charlotte to play ball.
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
Bad trade for the Clippers
That’s too much. The Minny pick is worth a lot, look at that team. They will be hard-pressed not to be in the bottom five next year.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 26, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The Minny pick is worth a lot...
but I’d rather not wait 2 more years to pick another lottery player that we might have to wait another 5 years to find out if they’re going to be a superstar/allstar/bust, if we can get a superstar NOW. Tired of waiting on lottery picks.
(Dampier) / Jordan
Griffin / Smith / Cook
Anthony / Gomes
Gordon / Butler / Warren
Baron / Foye / Bledsoe
Sign me up for that!
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Aug 27, 2010 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions
i cant even look at this
it just gets me soo excited, this would be great if we could unload kaman and some young bench guys!!
Max McCarthy
Now that Wojo has reported it
I wonder if Chris Broussard is going to give us “breaking news” with his “sources” giving him information.
If DEN wants to go young
then do they really want Kaman? He’s two years older than Melo and his contract, though not a max, is still sizable. I know it’s unlikely but wouldn’t DEN feel more inclined to take Deandre, AFA, Minny pic, and expiring contracts instead?
If the Clippers are acquiring Melo, I think they should definitely unload Baron Davis ASAP (ideally for a defensive PG).
Melo, EJ, and BG can handle the majority of the scoring load. EJ is ready to step up and be a high quality secondary scorer. With more touches and responsibly, he could very well touch 20pts per game. Keeping Baron Davis around reduces EJ’s most effective attribute, as there are not nearly enough touches to maximize Melo, EJ, Baron, and BG.
In my proposed trade, we’d be unload Baron for an expiring contract. That trade SHOULD INCLUDE Minnesota’s pick going to Charlotte as a sweetner for them to take on Baron. Michael Jordan has shown he is in a win-now mindset (some say as a product of his hyper-competitive nature). Reuniting Baron and Stephen Jackson in the backcourt, with Gerald on the wing would make them a competitive playoff team in the East.
The trade SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE the Clipper’s pick goin to Denver. In the end:
Den receives Kaman, Aminu, & Clipper pick.
Cha receives Baron & Minny pick.
LAC receives Melo & Dampier.
I think that trade makes sense for all parties involved, seeing as how Melo is goin out the door.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Randy Foye and Bledsoe would have to be stop-gap PGs this season
They’d share duty holding that position down temporarily. Then shake out the position as EJ and BG emerge this season in more prominent roles.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
i think foye could be a pretty decent stopgap
hes started before and he is pretty talented.
+1
9:21 LAC - Offensive foul on C. Smith
by LancasterGordon4Eva on Aug 27, 2010 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Personally, I find Baron to be a burden.
He’s nowhere near worth his contract, his main attribute is being a ball-dominant, scoring PG, and with teammates like EJ, BG, and most importantly (potentially) Melo, his already diminished value/asset becomes even less necessary.
I feel a team with a pass-first and defensive PG at it’s helm, assuming Melo is on the squad, would be the best way to go.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
ROY DMC?
This is Blake Griffin country.
9:21 LAC - Offensive foul on C. Smith
by LancasterGordon4Eva on Aug 27, 2010 3:35 AM PDT up reply actions
if chauncey could adjust to melo, so can baron
im fine with keeping baron for the remainder of his contract
Baron will have more firepower than he's had since GSW. His assists will increase, and he's still a very good defender with his size.
This trade is ridiculous.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 27, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
When you can get something for a player, you do it
We can get a lot more than “unloading a burden” with Baron. Plenty of teams would kill for a guy who was top 5 in the league in assists last year. Why not actually get an asset out of it?
by BayAreaClipper on Aug 27, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
He's the ONLY playmaker on the team
People seem to not grasp the idea that this team has zero playmakers outside of Baron. In particular, because EJ lacks good ball handling and playmaking, it makes Baron MORE necessary. So the idea that with guys like EJ, Grffind and potentially Melo, Baron becomes “even less necessary” is completely false.
It’s even more silly when you consider that the primary backup is probably Randy Foye, who himself is a combo guard at best. So really you’re proposing leaving the team with a rookie PG (who played SG in college) and hoping to pick up some scrub off the waivers. Great idea.
I understand that people don’t like Baron b/c he takes bad shots and because he’s not always in good shape and he’s been disappointing. But that doesn’t change the fact that his positives are considerable as well and he’s still an above-average starting PG. The concept of dumping an above-average PG is just silly.
I understand your points
But Baron’s defense is entirely overrated. At best, he’s average on that side of the ball. He’s also a career 41% shooter with 32% beyond the arc. On a Clipper squad with Melo, his roll will shift to ‘vocal leader’ and playmaker/spot shooter. Of course he’ll call the occasional isolation play, but overall his scoring MUST take a back seat. If he was a good defender, I’d have no problem with this or his contract. But as it stands he’s already mediocre on that side of the ball, inefficient offensively, consistently misses games, AND the highest paid player on the team.
I get what you guys are saying about giving away an asset for nothing, and to make matters worse including a pick. But I feel that’s the price it’ll take to get a team to voluntarily take on his contract, especially with the new CBA looming. The capspace created would make the Clippers much more flexible in all future trade opportunities, and appease Donald Sterling’s stingy nature. We can all dream of CP3 signing with the Clippers two years from now, but the greatest lesson from this summer should be that no team should depend on FA. Opening up $9m on an already solid team (the Melo version), would prove to be a far better strategy IMO.
An important point I should include is that I foresee Bledsoe being a high quality starting PG 2-3 years from now, and should be getting consistent minutes from rookie year forward.
Around the league Baron Davis is seen as an overrated player with a bloated contracts. Talking to fans from other teams, that’s the general consensus from my experience.
" 1 + 1 = 3 " - David Kahn
Game of matchups
Baron’s actually pretty good defensively. He has great hands and is very strong for a PG. He does well against the Deron Williams types but gets crushed by the little quick guys like Chris Paul. When Baron wants to he can post up just about any PG in the league and get some good things going. Problem is he’ll often settle for jumpers. If we had a more established and strict coach (like Popovich) I think the problem would be correctable but I doubt VDN has the juice to really do anything to Baron which is a big cause of concern.
I won’t address the looming CBA stuff since its all rampant speculation. It could be a hard cap, it could just be a shift in rev share for the players but who knows. I think one side will blink at the 11th hour as neither side could really afford a lockout over money when so many people/fans are already hurting financially.
Definitely not sold on Bledsoe, he looked exactly as I thought he would during Summer League, freakish athlete with sub-par PG skills. Until he learns how to play at different paces he’ll be a big project.
Trading Baron and Kaman would defeat the purpose of acquiring Melo. A Melo trade would shift the Clippers from “Project?” to a “Win soon” team. With some other smart moves the team could be a legitimate contender within a couple of years when BG (we hope) is a legitimate all-star.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 27, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Earl Watson is still avaliable
He’s a pass first defensive point guard.
Trading Kaman and Baron thats way too much.
Its one or the other because than you’re depleting the team. If i had the choice it would
be Baron because he’s not playing to his contract.
How about BD?
Unless I missed it, I’m surprised nobody mentioned this:
Trade BD, AFA, and DJ for Melo and Lawson. Chauncey is getting old and has already proven that he can play the SG position, especially once they dump JR Smith. Salary wise it works, selling it to Denver would be the hard part, but DJ and AFA have lots of upside and BD is a proven PG.
This gives us
Foye/EB/Lawson
Gordon/Foye/Butler
Melo/Gomes
Griffin/Smith
Kaman/FA (Skinner?)
Just checked out the Nets and Nuggets blog threads regarding the Woj article
Compared to our 276 or so posts, the Nuggets thread has 306…
…the Nets thread has 800!!!
Wow... What trade proposals are the Nets tossing around?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Hmmm
Denver doesn’t need a point guard. If Favors is also untouchable, I don’t see too many great offers coming out of NJ… and nothing at all until at least December.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
yep, it's been an interesting journey over to their blogs to say the least
A bunch of Nets bloggers raided the Nuggets site with a bunch of junk offers.
Makes me appreciate this community that much more…
Is it a general opinion that they need a center...
They have Nene. He doesn’t have Kaman’s offense but he’s decent.
If Denver wants youth, picks, and maybe expirings and the Clips and Nets consider Lopez, Favors, Griffin, and Gordon untouchables… is there a deal here at all?
I've caught a few of your comments against the Melo trade
He’s a punk, he’s inefficient, and he doesn’t play D… Isn’t that the rap?
I’m more ambivalent. I see your argument, but I also saw that Syracuse romp through the NCAAs… It left an indelible impression. The guy is a scoring machine, and hey, he’d have to respect Griffin and Gordon. I can see it working out quite well, really.
Without Carmelo, it looks to me like Denver would need a new wing most of all. The Kaman-AFA idea seems basically sound. I still think exchanging Gomes for Anderson in the same trade would be a win-win. But I’m with you insofar as I think we should limit our generosity. Denver is the one in a cramped situation, not us.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
No?
Gordon who just made the USA team, and Griffin who’s Blake Griffin. Melo isn’t THAT big a punk, is he?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
And
Mello won a gold in Olympics and has proven more than Blake Griffin thus far in their careers, so what? Don’t get me wrong, we can dream of all the things Melo can do for this team, but to say he HAS to respect a 3rd year player and a rookie sounds quite humorous. Melo doesn’t have to do anything, especially if (what we are assuming) he’s going to become our first option on our team.
In all honesty, Griffin and Gordon should respect Melo’s playing abilities, just don’t duplicate his other actions. Maybe donating to chairty, but that’s about it.
Erfff, I'm not insisting that he bow down to them
The bottom line is that if he doesn’t think highly enough of EJ and Griffin, then he has little reason to want to come here. If the trade were to go through, then I’d be shocked if he didn’t expect good things from them… and so play accordingly.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Melo is probably my least favorite player in the NBA...
Next to Kobe, I guess.
I’ve always hated his attitude on court and have zero respect for him off the court. I remember how twisted upset he’d get when Quinton Ross and Cuttino Mobley would tag-team defend him, deny him the ball, keep him off balance, and force him to pass which he obviously hated to do. I’ve also listened to reports of his dislike of workouts, rumors of his never really being in great shape. His refusal or inability to engage on the defensive end is surprising in a player of his tenure, especially when he’s seen how it contributes to success. He needs the ball and a lot of minutes to accomplish what he does. He is the epitome of a me-first player.
That said, he’s wonderfully gifted in the front end of the floor. He’s ridiculously quick and clever with the ball and he can grab rebounds too. He’s a great scorer, who needs the ball, a lot of shots, and a lot of minutes to be successful.
I’ve said it before, if the Clips had a proven coach, Popovich, Adelman, McMillan, someone who could potentially harness what Anthony brings, I’d probably be more interested.
I think we overlook Kaman and his skills. He’s a top ten center, arguably a top five… while not a “number one option”, he puts a lot out on the floor. 18.5 points and 9.5 rebounds last year in five less minutes per game than Anthony. He’s a good defender… and he can play next to anyone and succeed. He made Marcus Camby and Elton Brand better players!
But because he’s weird, not obviously athletic, and something less than beautiful, Clipper fans are willing to let him go without a second thought… for a talented guy who scores a lot but is actually MORE flawed. Frankly I’m a little baffled that there aren’t more people who see it my way.
But I’m also tired of arguing. I’ll say it again, if the Clippers can bring in Carmelo without giving up Griffin, Gordon, and the Minny pick, the trade makes sense.
Good points
I more or less agree with your assessment of Melo. He is a polarizing player, evidenced by the variety of opinions – both positive and negative – being shared here. I used to really hate him because I thought he was a brat, and I tend to hate players who don’t at least make an effort on D (i.e. Amare). I softened my stance on Melo when I saw him play hard in Beijing. Also, it’s hard not to be impressed by his silky smooth offensive game.
What worries me is his lack of contributions in non-scoring areas, and his apparent lack f interest in sharing the rock. For a guy with his athletic ability, he should be pulling down more boards. Even more importantly, for a guy who commands as much defensive attention as he does, Melo only getting 3-4 dimes per game is disgusting. Even Kobe, one of the most selfish players out there, is more willing to share.
On the other hand, the Clippers desperately need a guy like Melo who can create his own offense and who can hopefully force the media and future free agents to take the team seriously. While I dont think Melo brings enough dimensionality to truly deserve the max, I think that in this market, he’s going to get it from somewhere. Also, he may be worth it to our team simply because we need a superstar guy so badly. If you’re stuck in the desert, you’d probably pay 100 bucks for a bottle of water.
As for Kaman, I understand we need to give up someone. But if this actually goes through, we will miss him more than we realize now. There aren’t many true centers in the league with his skill level and shooting touch. If Dwight Howard had just a couple of Chris’s moves, he’d be an MVP. Also, I’m not a DJ believer; if we had Marcin Gortat backing up Kaman, I’d feel better about letting him go.
If we do get Melo, here’s to VDN convincing him to “play the right way.”
by Raining Buckets on Aug 28, 2010 10:04 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Good post, man
One reason for optimism, as others have pointed out, is that our roster is filled now with good characters. A big part of me wants to see if they can gel and synergize. (“Synergy” is in my dictionary, but synergize is not. Go figure.)
Anyway, I’m always thinking that players will turn over a new leaf, and I’m often wrong. In a colder light, I’d say that Carmelo probably would create some team disunity. — You know, I’ve been assuming that he’s down on Denver’s prospects and that he wants to play on a team with more competitive upside. But maybe that’s too generous. Someone should ask him if NY would still be his top destination, even w/o CP3. I can see how the big city might be what it’s really about for him.
On the other hand, can you imagine the press buzz if Carmelo were to suddenly join Baron and Blake? It’d be like the days when Brand first came over from the Bulls, or even more so. That’s gotta sound enticing, no? What if we got assurances that Dampier would then also sign on?
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Mabe Detroit gets involved...
I happen to think that Kaman is worth a lot more than Prince right now, but I’m wondering if Detroit would send something like Jerebko and/or a pick to Denver in a 3 team trade. I think we can also offer this years 1st rounder as well.
That's a big Nets community
They had a massive message board thing going on there before they joined SBnation…. really active community there.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Aug 27, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
WOW! Melo isn't even a Clipper yet and some people here are already bashing him...
Melo is great player!!!
What the Hell?
And how come all these critics all of a sudden wanna hold on to Kaman? You fools are the same idiots who will bash Kaman as soon as he has a bad game or two…
The question remains, however…would Melo really wanna be a Clipper??
Hmmmmm…
Donald Sterling is the Worse Owner of All Time
by DonaldSterlingSucks on Aug 28, 2010 6:40 AM PDT reply actions
I agree, it's interesting to see how a thread like this evolves...
Carmelo Anthony has NEVER MISSED THE PLAYOFFS, homies. He’s only made it out of the first round once, but he has NEVER MISSED THE PLAYOFFS. Don’t get me wrong, he has had some okay teams, but up until recently they were no more than okay. He shared the ball with Iverson, he carried Andre Miller and Kenyon Martin to the playoffs, he was part of something very special when they got Billups. Do you realize how close the Nuggets were to beating the Lakers a couple of years ago? Carmelo was a huge part of that. Carmelo is not LeBron, he is not Wade, he is not MJ, but you know what, at this point in their careers I think it might be realistic to say he’s as good as Kobe (30 year old Kobe), and I’ll take that. I hate Kobe, but he’s good at basketball.
I also like Carmelo because I randomly met him once on the beach in Cabo San Lucas. He was just hanging on the beach with his friends, and me and my friends were the only people who recognized him. He was really nice, took a picture with us (which I will try to put here), and then he got on a Jet Ski and probably rode into the sunset.
Yay yay.
by KamanHomie on Aug 28, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Alright well sbnation formatting has beat me again. Here’s a link to that photo, just because I think it’s funny. It’s in my friends facebook album, so it might only be visible to those of you on facebook, or maybe it still won’t work, but it’s worth a shot possibly…
link to photo, Time believes that Chris Kaman is on his side.
Yay yay.
It'd be Griffin, Gordon and two firsts
…for Melo and JR. I find it hilarious most of you think you can get Melo without having to give up anything.
What's more hilarious,
…the idea that Denver gets THAT much value, let alone market value…
or that the Clippers want Carmelo Anthony that badly.
I've been waiting for that...
Let’s see what they get. It won’t be anything close to ELGee’s price. Denver: desperate and dreaming. I feel sorry for them.
Watch...
It ends up being primarily the classic “trade exemption”…..
dude seriously...are you dumb??
you may get gordon, with very good luck and ineptitud from our FO,you have NO leverage, carmelo can block the trades by no signing an extension, and he won’t come here to play without Griffin or Gordon, he’ll block it like kobe do in the chicago trade, your best hope is gordon and the minny pick and that would be pushing it.
I won't be disappointed...
…because if LAC doesn’t play ball, we go somewhere else. Simple as that. Lopez isn’t untouchable in NJ. Nobody is untouchable when you’re talking a top-5 talent coming in return. He’ll sign the extension. The fact that it’s Carmelo freaking Anthony outweighs any leverage issues with him being unhappy.
You think he signs with the Clippers outright next summer under the new, cheapened CBA? Hell no. You want him, you pay.
I'd seriously doubt that New Jersey would give up Lopez.
If you guys want something for him, you have to trade him or he walks. If he wants to maximize money making potential he has to agree to an extension with the Nuggets or extend and trade. He’s likely not going to agree to extend if he ends up on a gutted team. If you think teams are going to pay for Melo at face value, then you probably will be disappointed. Kobe didn’t want to go to the Bulls if they traded away all of their players. Melo will be the same way. He has to approve a trade, because he has to do the extension. If you want to ship him to a team with no extension, you may get someone to bite, but then you are seriously not going to get any significant value back. Denver can receive nice pieces in return, but it’s more than likely not going to be equal value. That’s why I’m saying don’t get your hopes up.
I know that you want good value in return and I respect that. I know what it’s like to have a player that doesn’t want to play for your team any longer. As Clipper fans we’ve been left high and dry. The Nuggets have an opportunity to get something nice in return, but not Gordon, Griffin & 2 first rounders nice. Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett and Vince Carter weren’t traded for that. Shaq brought a nice return from the Heat, but it typically doesn’t happen. We’ll see though.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 28, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
The picks may be the hangup
I’d suggest a swapping of firsts as compromise if I was in the war room, but who knows.
If I may,
I’ll direct you to the front offices of Toronto and Cleveland. Feel free to ask them how things are and for advice on how to get “market” value.
I’ll direct Carmelo Anthony after this season to the front office of NY.
I don't view the Clips as gutted...
…losing Gordon and Griffin. I mean, you’ve never even known what it is to play with one of the two. Davis/Butler/Melo/Smith/Kaman is a playoff team. Clear space for CP3 and it’s a title contender.
I think Melo wants to go home to NY/NJ, and LaLa wants to be snapped by TMZ while out with the Kardashians. Until the decision is made internally in that household, it’s hard to project trades.
The Warriors are reportedly offering Curry, Biedrins and picks. The Warriors are as inept as they come, but if Steph Curry is on the block, most anybody is.
If you can get Steph Curry, my hats off to you.
Clips ain’t moving Griffin (complete non-starter) and are probably not moving Gordon. If that means there is no deal for Melo, we’ll get over it.
by Michael White on Aug 28, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
...and that's sensible
but message board die-hards aren’t representative of the fanbase as a whole. That’s abundantly apparent in Denver. Sterling might be looking two dump two future big contracts for one now. Pinches pennies while still drumming up interest.
The intelligent fans will be peeved initially, but you’re going to sell a bunch more tickets. Gordon is good and Griffin is a potential star but nobody is coming to see them play next year.
i don't get your thinking
why would he want a big contract and dumb 2 rookie scale contacts, if he doesn’t want to pay gordon or griffin he can sign and trade when they became restricted FA. moving griffin would be suicidal for sterling, fans would hate him even more.
Curry is, to me,
equvilent to that of Gordon. Biedrins is equivilent to that of Kaman. Gordon and Curry is the same age. I believe Biedrins is younger than Kaman (but somebody can correct me) but Kaman is the All Star.
Ehhhh. I’ll think about a Kaman and Gordon deal, but even then I’m not too positive I would do the swap.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Curry>>>>>>>>>>>Gordon, Kaman>>Biedrins
In a couple of years curry will be a top 5 pg in the NBA. If curry is on the table, then if the clips still wanted him only a gordon+Griff offer would persuade the nuggets. At that point keep em.
Curry can run a team. Gordon is a complimentary player.
A couple games in FIBA is hardly a basis for your opinion. If you were to poll the NBA GM’s 32 out of 32 would prefer Curry as he simply brings a lot more to the table. I do admit Gordon is a nice little 2 guard but 2 guards are a plentiful commodity.
by Skeptic Con Urquel on Aug 28, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I think EJ could run a team given the chance.
Steph ran the offense at Davidson and with the Dubs so he has a lot more experience at the moment.
Skip it big0lbad...
There’s just no point. Curry can shoot and is a okay point guard. Gordon is a legit two who can play on both ends ot the floor. They’re both good players, but apples and oranges. Pretty interesting that Gordon is dominating in FIBA play and Curry got lit up this morning in the same game. These Denver fans are bitter, wounded, and want the world for their boy… and it isn’t happening.
Must they look down on other players in the process?
To give >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marks over a player must be like comparing Lebron James to Luke Jackson. And then they expect Griffin, Gordon, and a few picks in return. It’s just not happening. Ever. Even if Griffin turns out to be a bust like Kwame, I wouldn’t look back and say “the obvious thing to do was to trade Griffin blah blah blah.” Griffin has the potential to hang with one of the best in the leagues in the future; I wanna see start and finish it as a Clipper.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
No, Its not looking down on Eric
Gordon is a hell of a player, but curry makes him look like a chucker. Look at the stats, Curry, a rookie bests gordon in every statistic except TOV and PF. Also, the PG position is just worth more than the SG position. Centers and PGs extremely valuable, because those are the hardest positions to fill.
Gordon has the higher TS%, which would indicate he’s a better scorer based on his ability to get to the line.
by Michael White on Aug 29, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
...and Gordon's the better defender...
And they play in two vastly different systems.
I like Curry a lot, and I doubt the Warriors will put him on the table, but Monkfish’s argument that Curry>>>>>>>Gordon does not compute.
That standard of rookie v sophmore
makes no difference and is ineffective to me only because they’re both the same age. So essentially, I prefer to compare them where they stand currently.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
I think so
Someone was saying that Curry was a rookie and EJ was a sophmore. Well then might as well throw in their ages also. So one’s been in the league longer for a year while the other is still 1 year older if that’s true (I thought I saw them both listed under 1988.)
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
It's really not that far of a margin actually
your stuck in that belief because virtually Gordon has been in the league for two years now (and has regressed a little from his first year) and because Curry did well in his first year. It’s expected. First year player does great, people see him as something great. Second year player puts up solid numbers but not improvement numbers, they see a decline. But to give a drastic, atleast 10, less than or equal to’s to Curry is really the wrong term. I’d understand one less than or equal to, or even a less than sign for Curry’s favor, but the signficant drop off line between Curry and Gordon is not that great.
Maybe I’ll get into debt it later, but I have a meeting to attend to again. =\
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
look at what happened a few years back when Mark Teixera was traded to the Angels.
Angels thought they could resign him but his wife wanted him in pinstripes,,,,, I’m going with where Lala wants to go.
That’s not entirely fair. Maybe the wife wanted it, but that was the best money offer.
by Michael White on Aug 28, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Then why didn't Angels offer 10 Mil's extra?
Plus, Tex won a championship right after. He made the right choice even though I was disappointed the Angels didn’t retain him.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
If Curry is included, then I bet Melo vetoes the trade
The Nuggets aren’t the only party here that wants to have top talent on their team. I’m with the others here who say you’re going to be disappointed, the way you’re going. See UC.Clipper’s comments above.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Dont think Melo can veto a trade.
Only non-Bird players can, like Devean George in 2007. Melo can refuse to sign an extension, however.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
That's what I mean. It's essentially a veto.
I’m confident Melo would do the same in a trade proposal involving Griffin and Gordon. Denver needs to start thinking in terms of weaving between the various interests involved.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Kind of
some teams might want that ONE year with Melo even if they’re unsure he’ll sign the extension. It’s a huge risk, but some teams might be willing to take it. Odd’s should be against that team though.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
any team willing to do that would seriously demand a discount on any trade
outside of sending draft picks (not even sure that would be ok), I’m not sure what the Clippers would be willing to give for a one-year rental. AMA? Would trading a first-round potential SF for a 1 year rental be worth it?
Nobody will make a serious offer for a one year rental. Draft picks.
by Michael White on Aug 29, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Draft picks for one year?
I guess you sell some tickets, and I guess you gamble that Melo would resign because you treat him so nice. Is that a non-lottery number one?
Why does either team make that move?
I was thinking more of a contender would do it for a one year chance at a ring (not the Clippers.)
So it would be non-lottery and maybe a future 2nd rounder.
But it’s irrelevant, those kind of deals don’t get done in the NBA. An extension is absolutely necessary to move Carmelo.
by Michael White on Aug 29, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe somebody like Chicago or Houston does a year...
It’d be have to be someone with expirings to match salaries, and they could throw in a late first, and they gain his Bird rights and have a shot at him on the back end.
Dumb move for Carmelo though, because he should make his deal now not later. Bitter pill for the Nugs… they get nothing but cap relief.
Yeah, a one year deal really doesn't make anybody happy
Denver loses their guy for pennies, Carmelo gets tossed to the whims of the new CBA, and the other team gets a disgruntled rental.
I suppose there could be an odd scenario with a little bit of promise. Maybe the Knicks would want to take such a chance, given that Melo really wants to be in NY. I think he could then sign an extension before June 2011. But then Denver gets screwed.
In all honesty, the Clips “best offer” is likely to be Denver’s best option.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Same thinking.
They can use Curry’s expiring and give them a little something else. But he WANTS to go to NY and he probably WOULD sign an extension there. So Nugs should ask for the house.
One thing I hate about the Knicks deal is that big baby gets exactly what he wants.
The only team I could see doing a year rental is Orlando.
They could give up a late 1st and a deal based around Vince Carter. Vince’s contract is partially guaranteed next year for about $4.5M. A pairing of Carmelo and Howard could do some damage. It’s not the New York or LA market, but he’d have a great opportunity to win a ring some point with that combo if he decided to extend.
by Lawler 4ever on Aug 29, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally I don't think Melo is as good as his rep.
I would sign Melo for cash only on the free agent market, but I wouldn’t trade for him using valuable existing assets. He’s just not that good and I wouldn’t give him a max contract either. When the new bargaining agreement kicks in, Anthony will probably become the biggest albatross in the league – weighing down whatever unfortunate team is dumb enough to trade valuable cost efficient players and sign him to that extension.
The Carmelo to the Nets buzz has been going on for a couple of weeks before the Clips showed up in the mix. A lot of similar discussions on his worth. Take a look at this post.
http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/8/19/1631842/is-melo-in-the-top-5-top-10-how
A NetsDaily poster took a look at some advanced statistics that have Anthony ranked in the low 30s amongst the best players in the league. =:-0
Interesting link
Talk about a buzz kill. You may want to post this again in a more visible place. The stats geeks among us would probably have much to say about it.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Denver needs to realize...
that they’re not going to get a deal done if they demand other teams’ best young players. Melo wouldn’t even want to extend with any other team if we gave up Blake Griffin or the Kings gave up Tyreke or the Nets gave up Lopez, etc.
I understand the Nuggets organization is angry that Melo is pulling this crap but the only way both sides can reach a good conclusion is if the Nuggets make a LOGICAL deal to send Melo elsewhere.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"We're just the same old Clippers. That's all we are. We're just the same old Clippers. We want teams to continue to take us lightly."
- Sam Cassell
Do the Nuggets really want Kaman?
Christopher is a great player, don’t get me wrong, but if the Nug’z are set at any one position it would be at center with Nene. Do they think Nene and Kaman can play together? They also already have Kenyon Martin at power forward, (who is in the last year of his contract, but they still have him). It’s easy to say “oh yeah, Kaman is good, they’ll take him,” but I don’t know if another good center is what Denver wants to come out with in a Melo deal. The Minnesota pick is enticing but not a sure thing, and Al-Farouq is an okay bonus at this point, but I don’t know if that’s really enough to get Melo.
If the Nets offer Devin Harris and Derrick Favors and Terrence Williams it may barely trump anything the Clippers offer without Eric Gordon, especially when you consider the fact that Denver would probably prefer to ship him to the Eastern Conference.
Basically, I think if the Clippers want Melo they probably have to give up EGJ Thizzface Supreme, and while I think they should (I’m a believer in the Simmons logic "team that get’s best player wins the trade), I’m less enthusiastic about it.
That said, I think we should all take a second to re-examine our feelings about Eric Gordon. We loved him after his rookie year, but he was nowhere near a Carmelo-level player last year. He is doing well on team USA, but he’s doing it against Croatia and the Vatican or whoever they’re playing against. I love Eric Gordon, I really do, but he is not as good as Carmelo, and if I don’t think he ever will be.
Yay yay.
Let's find out
I’m going to create a poll and ask the people. A trade involving EJ is tough call, esp given Melo’s flaws and huge contract.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Shipping out Kaman is about evening out the salaries...
I’m a little confused though, are you suggesting Gordon instead of Black Sikma? Salaries don’t work and there isn’t anybody else on the team who can be traded to even out salaries until Dec.
Yeah, good point, and I realize the importance of evening salaries...
I’m honestly not sure what offer I could come up with asides from including Black Sikma. Considering the fact that the Clippers can’t trade anybody with a significant salary except Baron and Christopher, it seems like the Clips can either underpay or overpay for Carmelo. They can offer Kaman, Aminu, and Minnesota’s pick (which I think isn’t quite enough to get it done), or they can offer Kaman, Gordon, and the Minnessota pick (which is probably too much). Maybe they have to include another team and figure out some three team trade in order to make it happen.
Yay yay.
Most are saying CHA is the best candidate.
Kaman to CHA.
Dampier to DEN.
Melo to LAC.
Minnesota pick to DEN. Pistons 2011 2nd and Clippers 2011 second to DEN.
Smith to LAC.
CHA gets their center, DEN gets pure salary relief and very good picks. LAC gets a star player.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
Interesting idea. It looks like your salaries don't match well, though.
If we get Melo and Smith, we’d have to dump more than just Kaman.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
So Clips get Anthony and Smith and give up Kaman, Minny pick, 2nd rounder.
Den gets rid of Smith and gets Minny pick and 2nd rounder.
Cha dumps Dampier and gets Kaman. Sweet.
Pretty good for Denver, they only get one good pick but they dump more than 30M in one fell swoop, getting them from way over the lux tax to all the way under the cap.
First off, salaries don’t balance at all. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure that out. Clips send out 11M, bring back 23M. ??
Clips have to take on Smith’s contract which is expiring but… yecch.
They don’t give up Aminu but give up Minny pick. Clips don’t have a center, but I guess that’s not the end of the world.
Meanwhile, ESPN Insider is speculating that Billups may also be on the block
CHA, as it turns out, needs a point guard.
Man, this could get pretty wacky. Better not blink.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Pretty much we're looking at a full rebuilding effort by Denver
Meaning in whole swoop they might just try and trade all the aging pieces and get some stuff to build with for the future…
the clips should definitely make this trade. trade baron and kaman if need be. carmelo is not top 5 player in the league, but he is certainly better than any player the clips have had in the last 15 years.
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
Why would Melo even want to sign an extension with the Clippers...
if they didn’t have one of those two players?
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"We're just the same old Clippers. That's all we are. We're just the same old Clippers. We want teams to continue to take us lightly."
- Sam Cassell
You know, just about everybody, EVERYBODY has opined about Melo and the Clips...
Except for one person. Where do sit on this divisive issue, oh Fearless Leader? You thought enough of the argument to put it on the front page…
SP knows better then to comment on a rumor
rumors change way too often for a full response, until something actually happens.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
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