Poll: How much would you give for Carmelo?
Frankly, I'm a bit grateful that this Carmelo issue has come up at all. It makes for some interesting August discussion, especially as our city's baseball teams muck up the airwaves.
Reading through the recent posts, there is clearly a range of opinions about Melo, as reflected in various trade proposals. Of course, the trade has to work within the rules, so it appears that we have to include a big contract (Kaman or BD), even as Denver may not be particularly interested in either of them. Kaman is the name most commonly mentioned, but feel free to substitute Baron if you wish. The big question, then, is who else to include. I have tried to summarize the options below. Work your way down the list and tell us where your ceiling is.
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They could have sent a trade exception
If not for the rush to lock up Brian Cook.
Coaches don't matter. - Bill Simmons, The Book of Basketball
by John R on Aug 29, 2010 3:07 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Maybe this trade works for all these teams.
LAC – Anthony
DEN – Dampier, Aminu, 2012 Minny
CHA – Kaman
Prefer not to give up Minny pick, but Denver might not do the trade without. Maybe the Clips get a 2nd round pick from CHA.
I doubt Denver wants Kaman. If they’re trading Melo then the rebuild is on. Billups, JR Smith, and KMart will be the next to go. They’ll only want young assests and cap space.
Kaman can be traded for assets
28 year old center coming off a career year with a reasonable contract? He should be able to get a 1st round pick or so. So essentially the Nuggets could come out with a mid-late first rounder, AFA and Bledsoe.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 30, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Very true..
Depends on what Denver thinks of Bledsoe. They already have Lawson, two young PG’s might be nice, or they might want the Clips 2011 1st. Then if they can flip Kaman to Charlotte for Dampier and first round pick. Anthony nets them – 2 mid-late first rounders, AFA, cap space from Dampier. They won’t be very good next year so they’ll likey have their pick as a possible top 5 and 3 picks in the top 20. Plus what they can get for Billups, JR, KMart. Guess thats not a bad way to start rebuilding.
This is playing with fire.
I would not do a trade for Carmelo. As a player, he is quite good, but he has a huge albatross around his neck in the form of Worldwide Wess. What is to stop Carmelo from asking W. Wess to demand a trade after two years?! Obviously having a contract means nothing to those represented by that nefarious group (W. Wess), since Carmelo is still under contract. Say we trade Kamman plus someone else for Carmelo, we are then left without a quality center (another need). After 2 years, W. Wess is going to demand that we trade Carmelo. At that point we will be without another good player. Sure we could get a quality player for Carmelo, but why loose a player that we already have and seems to want to play for the Clippers (Kamman) for someone who could leave shortly afterwards. Denver was not able to change his mind, would we? “A bird in the hand…”
exactly why the reason we should get Kevin Durant instead
…to bad it can’t happen in the real world…
but yea…player loyalty (whether it be agents faults or not) is completely out the door now, its sad…its nice to know that the Clipper players (at least appear to be) loyal to the organization..only few teams seem like that now…OKC and Spurs are really the model teams now
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
Carmelo really has done nothing besides tell DEN he won't be signing a contract extension with them.
There’s nothing wrong with that at all. Melo doesn’t have to extend if he doesn’t want to. DEN then knows they have to trade him if they don’t want to lose him for nothing. Melo isn’t pulling a Chris Paul.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 30, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed CP3's comments are worse than Melo
Melo just wants to be put a good/winning position…which doesnt appear to be denver…nothing wrong with that
also Melo never said he wants to create a super team
…with that said
i was mainly commenting on the post trade demands when Melo is on his next team…2 years down the road (not his current “demands”)
…
by the way, for what its worth…Durant for Kaman works straight up salary wise
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
Nice, throw in Brian Cook and how can OKC NOT want that?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 30, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
It's been very consistent, now up to 219 votes.
Only 7% of us would be willing to include EJ and/or Griffin in a trade. 33% would be willing to include an additional major asset besides Kaman (EJ, Griffin, or the Minni pick). 13%, meanwhile, don’t want to trade for Melo in the first place.
In ESPN Insider, they give the following breakdown of Melo’s suitors:
* New York. His reported preferred destination. Packages around Danilo Gallinari, Eddy Curry and Anthony Randolph/Wilson Chandler and a draft pick have been rumored.
* Chicago. The Bulls could return Luol Deng to the Nuggets, perhaps the best talent they could get to replace Melo at small forward.
* New Orleans. They could make a play in an effort to keep Chris Paul around.
* Orlando. It’s reportedly another preferred destination of Anthony’s.
* Houston. The Rockets can offer money relief and draft picks.
* Los Angeles Clippers. L.A. offers Melo a bigger stage, and they have young talent to return.
* Charlotte. Erick Dampier’s $13 million non-guaranteed contract could be a nice trade chip.
* New Jersey. A move to Brooklyn in a few years could suit Melo and his wife.
* Golden State. Anthony, David Lee and Stephen Curry would be a solid nucleus.
* Minnesota. They could offer draft picks, and maybe even Ricky Rubio’s rights.
* Sacramento. It’s possible they may have to part with one of their young small forwards in Donte Greene or Omri Casspi to get Melo.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
after thinking about it for a minute
I voted that I’d be willing to give up Gordon. I’d probably be pissed off at first and argue that the FO is stupid for giving up on him, but I think all would be forgiven the second I saw melo don a new Clips jersey and step on the court for the first time.
I’m probably as high on gordon as they get, and think he’ll definitely show to be one of the better SG’s in the league, but I don’t think he’ll ever have that killer instinct to be a go to scorer that can carry a team. Fact is that SG’s are decently plentiful and you can probably find someone that can do 80-90% of what gordon can. Meaning, I don’t think Gordon is a best of his generation type of guy that is absolutely untouchable. I’m hoping Griffin will be one of those guys, but for now if there’s an opportunity to get melo if it means giving up gordon, It would be EXTREMELY hard but I’m not sure I’d pass on that offer.
Yeah, as soon as you offer Gordon, I lose my bearings
It would have to be something like EJ + Kaman for Melo straight up, and ohhh maaaaaybe I might be convinced. It doesn’t sound like too many other would, though. The price tag would probably push me back into the Nay category. I wonder how many others might be persuaded.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
That is a tough one
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Definitely nay.
I’m hesitant giving up our Core Center, I def don’t want to lose EJ, as well. Kaman, AFA, and the Minny Pick is my absolute ceiling.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I rather give up EJ
than AFA and the Minnesota pick. Honestly if someone offered us 2 mid-lottery or higher picks for EJ I think you have to take it.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect that many of us are kind of down on AFA after summer league...
which isn’t fair or rational. Still, we seem willing enough to part with him now, and w/o tears. I think he’s going to change a lot of minds as the season rolls on… we’ll see how expendable we think he is come February.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I would be sad to see AFA leave without seeing him actually play
as much as I would be sad to see Kaman (the last of the glory day Clippers by the way) leave
but i would still trade both in an instance, because Carmelo is that star power we have NEVER had.
AFA is expendable only because Melo plays the same position…nothing against how AFA played. His summer league was pretty much expected. We all knew he wasn’t the almighty solution. But the thing is…Melo might be. and you have to do it and not look back.
If we get Melo…we are set for years (something AFA had going for us) and have talent at the SF position (something we felt AFA could potentially do for us…but probably not as great) and still have a backup that could be a starter on some other teams (in Gomes…constant in both cases)
I’d rather trade Gomes than AFA because of the interest in building in-house and with draft picks…but we cant do that right now. So no way around it…AFA is a victim
Plus most of the tears are for Kaman…if Kaman leaves…there goes all memories of 2006 and we are left with a LARGE hole by starting (an unready after 3 years) DJ
…again there is no knock on anyone’s abilities or skills. I’m satisfied if went into the season with roster as-is. But if u can get a player like Melo, its a risk you have to take
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
Yeah, I think I agree with all of that.
I know that I have to remind myself that Aminu is bound to take some time, but that he’ll likely be very good eventually. As it is, I find it a little too easy now to just throw him into trade packages.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
That's not my hypothetical
its essentially EJ or two lottery picks. I take the two lottery picks.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Still, it affects things when you know who the lottery pick is. You’d rather keep AFA and the Minni pick than keep EJ. In a sense, I’m supporting your position.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
If we are getting Melo...
to make $$ work it would be Kaman + (AFA + Minni) OR EJ
keeping AFA and moving EJ is dumb because we would have holes at C and SG and then an uncessary glut at SF
DJ-BG-Melo-EJ-BD w/bench as is >>>>> DJ-BG-Melo-Foye-BD w/a prospect in the next year
with that said. we should try to play hard ball with Denver Kaman + AFA ONLY…if they dont take it…give them a Clipper 1st…still no? how about 2 Clipper 1st? still no…ok ur puling my arm but u can have the Minni then
…don’t just give it up on the first try
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
I give them the choice
they can take Kaman and AFA and either the Clippers 2011 1st round pick (which would be a mid 1st rounder with Melo) or Bledsoe. Neither AFA or Bledsoe figure to do all that much this year for the Clips with Foye and Gomes around so the team doesn’t lose anything in the short-term.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
either, as long as we keep EJ
I think its a well rounded trade
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
Trying to get Salary Cap to work
I was using RealGM to try and get salaries to match…but didn’t want to spend too much more time. Seems like some version of:
Carmelo & Bibby to Clips
Jamal Crawford, Aminu to Den.
Baron, DJ to Atl (plus something from Clips, pick? can’t put picks in trade checker)
for salary and for Atl to agree would help everyone
Carmelo & Crawford would probably have to sign extensions first.
Doesn't work
Clippers are taking in way too much salary (22.7 million) and only sending out 16.5.
Not to mention Denver isn’t getting that much from the trade. The Hawks would be happy with the deal I think, they get a cheap Center and upgrade at PG.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the extra piece from the Clips that I was trying to figure out
Knowing the recent signees aren’t available. Denver is a little light, but Crawford & Aminu is pretty good vs. getting nothing in a year. Also, my premise is that Kaman doesn’t have much value with Nene there.
he does when Martin is out (which could be sooner rather than later)
and Nene is really a PF
R.I.P. Lorenzen Wright November 4, 1975 - July 28, 2010
Gordon is the highest I would go
No Griffin. No Kaman.
NBA is a big man’s game. Gotta have bigs to win.
Only the Chicago Bulls were able to win championships without dominant bigs, but they had the best player, wing man, and rebounder in the game.
The only way to beat the Lakers is with big bodies, just like the Celtics almost did. The possible exception may be the Miami Heat with their two super-duper stars.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Have to include Kaman
to make the numbers work. And I don’t think Kaman is good enough to be a dominant big, I think BG could be one however.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Have to include Kaman unless the Nuggets are willing to wait until Dec 15th
but I don’t see that happening.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Right
I forgot a package of Gomes, Foye, Butler and Rhino is more appealing than Kaman.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Aug 31, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, it definitley isn't
which is why it won’t happen, it isn’t physically impossible but is extremely improbable.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Then it doesn't make sense
How will the Clippers with Carmelo be any different than the Nuggets with Carmelo?
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
I'll settle for being the same. A perennial playoff maker and occasional WCF visitor.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Sep 1, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
And a viable CP3 destination in 2 years if we actually win something.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Sep 1, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok
But I’m saying that’s the ceiling with Carmelo and no Kaman.
A combination of Griffin, Gordon and Kaman may have a better chance.
You can’t beat the Lakers without bigs.
Something to think about.
Now, in terms of entertaining basketball, I would DEFINITELY trade Kaman for Carmelo.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
I understand your point, but
Successful teams need proven go to scorers. I’m not sure that any of the Clipper players fit that bill.
You do need bigs to win, but IMO a go to scorer is paramount.
If Griffin is as good as advertised, he should be the key big.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I think the Clippers should build as if Griffin is their star
Don’t mortgage the future on Melo, who will probably leave for NY in a year anyway.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Two points
Melo is a proven winner
The Clippers shouldn’t go for Melo unless he signs an extension
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 1, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The only way the Clips trade for Melo
is if he agrees to the sign and extend. No one is going to give up much for a one year rental.
FA in 2010.
I'd give up Cook
Gomes and Foye for a one year rental with Carmelo.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Will they be better than the Nuggets right away?
No, probably not. But BG and EJ still have a lot of room to improve while the Nuggets have already peaked and are only going downhill each year.
The Clips will obviously need to address the Center situation whether its signing a Dampier or a Tyson Chandler or Kendrick Perkins next off-season. There will be some solid bigs who can clog the middle, grab some boards and finish putbacks near the basket that we can pair with DJ to make a decent center combination.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Sep 1, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Melo would have to sign an extension
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
Duh
That’s a certainty. That’s why the rumors of Minnesota and Sacramento make no sense. The Nets at least are moving to Brooklyn soon and have Russian Mark Cuban.
FA in 2010.
I'd realistically like to see something like this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fgupr3
Pistons have been after Kaman, and he wouldn’t mind a return to Michigan. Prince would be a stop gap and expiring contract. Depends on how the Pistons and Nuggets feel about Gordon, or he could be replaced by Rip, but I doubt the Nuggs want to take on Rip’s contract. Seems like JR has overstayed his welcome in Denver, but that’s just a rumor. You could also replace Jerebrko with maybe Daye or (if they’re willing) Monroe and throw around some draft picks, but hopefully not the Minni pick.

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