Eric Gordon played so well in the second half Thursday against Tunisia, he may have earned himself a spot in the starting lineup.
Sheridan: Eric Gordon impresses in final pool game - ESPN
So I guess it wasn't tongue in cheek after all. The basic idea - that Team USA has very little three point shooting in the starting lineup with Billups cold and that the team has gotten off to several slow starts in a row - is valid. But the sample size of five is really small, and I would hesitate to make this change moving into the knockout stage. I would not however hesitate to make quicker substitutions and use the bench more, which Coach K says is exactly what he'll do.
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Steve Perrin
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Something to think about for next year...
From the same article: "Actually I’m watching tape this morning, we gave ‘em some feedback, and there was a play from yesterday and Eric was wide open. So I stopped it and I said, ’How many of you guys don’t want him to shoot?’ And nobody raised their hand. “I said, ‘Eric, see? Everybody wants you to shoot.’”
Question: would there be no hands up if Baron and Melo were in the locker room?
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 12:10 PM PDT reply actions
wow you are really making a statement about their personalities
ASOMS drink of the day – haterade
that's quite a statement about Baron and Melo you are making
ASOMS drink of the day – haterade
Not at all. It’s a totally fair question as to next season and the team’s ability to improve as a team. If you want to make a constructive point to the contrary, please feel free to reply, as that is why I posed the question.
But there is a huge difference between posing a question and making an assertion. I posed a question whereas you made an assertion… one which is incorrect – I do not drink haterade for those guys or anyone else.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I am okay with Baron taking OPEN 3's
Baron’s problem is that he tends to take guarded 3’s early in the shot clock, although he showed improvement on that towards the end of the season.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
saying that those two like to shoot is one thing
but saying that they are so selfish that they dont want a shooter to take an open shot is on a whole different level
Cheap shot
Baron is one of the best passers in the NBA he’d have no problem with EJ shooting. Melo has played with gunners JR Smith, Billups and Allen Iverson and has never said anything.
FA in 2010.
And yet
His assist numbers lag others who have had far inferior teammates. You don’t get that many shots per game by passing them up.
"To claim that you can simply watch a player and see his or her overall contribution to wins suggests that you believe your mind can do something that research suggests is difficult. Despite the limitations of personal observation, though, human beings still tend to believe the analysis based on this approach is correct. Such overconfidence can often cause people to ignore contradictory information." - Berri and Schmidt, Stumbling On Wins
"Hubris; H-U-B-R-I-S; Hubris" - Sean Salisbury.
by John R on Sep 2, 2010 2:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
completely irrelevant to the topic at hand
ASOMS is suggesting that Melo and Baron would not prefer EJ take a wide open shot
How is that a cheap shot? I posed a question.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
You didnt provide any evidence that Melo would object
just assumed he would. He has never had a issue with another teammate before and he’s had his share of weird ones.
FA in 2010.
Dude, would you please re-read what I wrote?
I wrote a series of words followed with a question mark. That is usually considered to be a question. Not an assumption. I assumed nothing. Which is why I posed the question.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Why pose it
you obviously think they would object.
Fine, to answer your question, no they would not object to EJ taking a wide open shot.
FA in 2010.
There is no way Carmelo or Baron would have raised their hand
by Michael White on Sep 2, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Because?
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Mwhite is saying that they would want EJ to take that shot
I would think that they would (assuming there’s no better alternative)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 2, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll bite
I honestly believe that Baron wants EJ to take all the open shots he gets, that he wants EJ to shoot more. In watching Baron, I think he would like to be a pass first point guard – but that he gets lazy some times and the easiest thing for a lazy player to do is shoot. But he knows the game, and he shares the ball, and I don’t think he cares about how many shot attempts he gets. I really don’t.
Not sure I would say the same about Melo, but I’ve only watched him from a distance.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Sep 2, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I need to watch games from last year
Has been a long time since I’ve seen EJ play, so I can’t remember if he was just being passive or not getting the ball. The one thing that always stuck out to me is that EJ was so hard to gauge since he shows such little emotion. He’d probably have the same look on his face if he was shooting a buzzer beating 3 pointer to win a finals game as he would watching a late night infomercial. You think he’s not being aggressive and then you look at the box score and he has 30 points.
Confidence and swagger do go a long way in the NBA so I hope the Team USA experience along with just having more years under his belt contributes to that. I can’t see EJ being a vocal leader anytime soon, but hopefully he realizes he should definitely lead the Clippers anyway he can.
only problem tha he has that is more noticable in the nba
is that he is poor in moving without the ball. If you have poor movement, then you only get the ball when you defender has either been caught in a screen or left you alone to double up someone else.
In FIBA, zone will render EJ open more often. The two shots I saw his take this morning were WIDE open.
by indy818 on Sep 2, 2010 12:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
EJ has been moving prety well in FIBA
I wonder if coach K or one of the other players taught him how to move better without the ball.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
its been a pretty obvious problem
I don’t know if Dunleavy never noticed or what, but you have to guess that coach k has, and if not, I’m sure it’ll be a work in progress under vdn.
I know there is a skillset to learn here, but a lot of it is just effort. He could run around and try to get open, or he can stay put and wait. He still does too much of the latter.
by indy818 on Sep 2, 2010 4:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
confidence and "swagger"
Only have value in building your teammates confidence, putting fear and doubt in the enemy and to entertain the audience. The previous two are remedied by solid, productive and consistent game play; if not Tim Duncan wouldn’t be who he was. So I think swagger’s appreciation tends to get out of hand. Swagger is just the cherry on top.
BTW, I think Dunleavy was a “swagger jacker”.
by Takebb909 on Sep 2, 2010 4:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Qualifier alert
Was Melo also wide open from 18 or with a lane to the hoop?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
right
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
I guess my point is at least with respect to Melo that
Melo is also a very good scorer and we should also want him to shoot if he was open and in his range. Probably a better overall scorer than EJ, no?
Not sure that I’d rather have BD jacking up threes though . . .
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 2, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
But isn't that the dilemma?
Implicit in the seemingly simple question are all sorts of considerations and qualifiers… What is the team’s alternative to EJ’s wide open potential shot at that moment in time? Who is on the floor? Where are we in the game? Are we winning or losing? Is someone riding a hot hand that night?
I’m no expert on Melo but if it’s a choice between a wide open three for EJ or an 19 footer for Melo, I’m not so sure it’s an obvious choice for either player (which is why I don’t consider the question to be a “cheap shot”, as one has asserted). Which is also why I find many of the statements made on this thread as absolutes (for any of the three players mentioned) to be rather interesting.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
I guess what Coach K meant is whether EJ should pass up the shot assuming there’s nothing better available.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 2, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
LMAO
Your argument and the question you posed about the original quote are two different subjects.
Regarding the original quote it means that no one is opposed to EJ shooting when he is wide open.
Regarding your original question, you are suggesting that Melo and Baron would be against EJ shooting when he is wide open.
Now you are arguing that if Melo or Baron had the ball, and EJ was wide open that they would not pass him the ball.
Two completely different subjects.
I award you no points, and god have mercy on your soul.
All you had to do was answer the question.
I’m not suggesting anything.
Nor am I arguing anything.
I don’t want your points.
And I don’t believe in god.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
From DJ Foster at Clipperblog (in response to the same Coach K quote)...
“Would Gordon get the same response from the Clippers locker room? It’s a little disheartening that the answer to that isn’t definitive…That isn’t to say that the previous coaching regime stifled Gordon’s abilities, but the players on the court didn’t exactly provide the proper environment for him to do his best work, and a large majority of the offensive plays weren’t dialed up with Gordon exclusively in mind. The lane has always been crowded, the player on the opposite wing has never been a playmaking threat, and in his time as a Clipper, ball movement has been a theory more than a practice….We’ll see what kind of future is in store for Gordon, but assertive performances like this one lead you to believe it will be a bright one.”
Guess I’m not the only one who is mulling these types of questions.
Bacek, does this mean that you will diss on DJ’s god as well?
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with Foster
And I’ve been mulling the same questions.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
DJs article does not support your original question
DJ is refering to the style of play the Clippers ran and the talent level Gordon has played with. Your are questioning the selfishness of Baron and Melo. My answer to your original question is the yes, obviously the would be no hands up.
by MannyA on Sep 3, 2010 12:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Bacek last statement the whole god have mercy on your soul
is a very famous movie quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
the rest of his statements are debatable.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
you dont have to tell me
ASOMS is the one that didn’t get it
I wasn't trying to respond to you
it was a response to ASOMS
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
A "very famous" movie quote?
Wow, such a sly, astute reference to an Adam Sandler movie… is that actually something to be proud of?
Going forward, I’ll simply refer to you two as the sophisticates of Clipper fandom. Bravo.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 3, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It is actually pretty regularly used not an obsucre quote at all
I mean Tony Realily of ATH uses it you know it definitely is not obscure.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
A wide open EJ 3 or a Anthony 18 footer?
This is a question for you? I couldn’t have beclowned you better myself if I tried.
You don’t even seem to understand the difference in point value of the two types of shots.
EJ is definitely hitting that shot more than 33%.
"To claim that you can simply watch a player and see his or her overall contribution to wins suggests that you believe your mind can do something that research suggests is difficult. Despite the limitations of personal observation, though, human beings still tend to believe the analysis based on this approach is correct. Such overconfidence can often cause people to ignore contradictory information." - Berri and Schmidt, Stumbling On Wins
"Hubris; H-U-B-R-I-S; Hubris" - Sean Salisbury.
by John R on Sep 2, 2010 2:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
you are on a tangent
read the original quote which we should all be referring to.
Seriously - just leave
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 2, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Jax, just ignore him
I think he post only to argue with you, whatever you post, he will argue the opposite even if it’s completely wrong
by MannyA on Sep 3, 2010 12:16 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
For those who can't read the ESPN article, the quote above is from Coach K.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Sep 2, 2010 12:14 PM PDT reply actions
Starting lineup
I was half-wondering if Gordon shouldn’t be starting, but figured he was valuable coming off the bench. But then we hit the stage where Coach K was riding the starters, and they were stagnant. That was kind of frustrating.
But at this point isn’t Gordon obviously the best SG on the team, based on both offense and defense and the opponent’s defensive approach? Doesn’t a Rose and Gordon backcourt just make sense, and seem like the obvious powerhouse? Rose is so good at what he does, and Gordon would seem to complement him just the was an SG should, especially with his ability to hit open shots.
Billups is a fine player and his experience is obviously very valuable to the US squad. But he’s much better as a PG. He happens to shoot, usually, better than Rose or Westbrook or Rondo, but that doesn’t mean he’s a prototype SG shooter like Gordon. Billups has gotten the nod all along and the lineup spot because of his experience, and it makes sense.
But now it’s a real topic. Should be interesting to see how this evolves and how the US fares in the next round.
i think slotting him into the starting lineup would work
Only because of EJ’s personality. You would be adding a starter who doesn’t rub anyone the wrong way and is more than happy to pick up the scraps and do the little things. He shoots when he is open and he defends. Its simple; uncomplicated.
And its not like they are at a shortage of scorers in the starting lineup.
by indy818 on Sep 2, 2010 12:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There's also something to be said for
There’s also something to be said for not starting all of your “best” players. A lot of coaches like to bring scorers off the bench and end up playing them for more minutes than the starter. It has worked well for the Spurs, Mavs and even the Hawks last year.
I realize it’s important to get off to a good start, but I would be more worried about who’s closing out games and who is getting the majority of the minutes than who is starting. If the starters get going as slowly as they have then bring in Gordon early and let him do his thing.
Well
What exactly is the argument for starting an inferior player, other than that some teams have done that? It doesn’t make sense to me.
by Michael White on Sep 3, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Reminds me of the QRoss v Maggette nightmare that cost us the playoffs
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Sep 3, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
A couple possiblities
Some players can’t adapt to coming off the bench as it’s much easier to get rolling when you have just warmed up, loose and have the adrenaline running.
If Coach K feels he can get better minutes from Billups by playing him the first six minutes of each half rather than the middle or last six, it benefits the entire team for Billups to start rather than bring him in as a sub when he won’t be as effective. Either way you know Billups is going to get his time as Gordon can’t play an entire 40 minutes, so why not get the best time out of him you can?
A second possibility is roles within the lineup. Maybe Coach K felt that with Gordon replacing Billups their wouldn’t be enough shots to effectively go around or that the second unit would suffer from a lack of a scorer. Maybe he though he could put Billups out with the first group knowing that he could count on him to effectively distribute the ball to others and not worry about getting his shot. Maybe he wanted to keep Gordon with the second unit to make sure there was enough fire power and that the second unit would be able to hold it’s own and allow the starters adequate time to rest.
Maybe he just likes the reliable spark and change of pace Gordon provides off the bench .
Mainly I was just trying to say that I’d rather see Gordon finishing games than starting them.
Team USA 121 Angola 66....What a great shooting game for Eric Gordon
6-7 shooting from the floor and 5-6 3pt shooting.
Gordon played a team high 21 minutes, he was the second leading scorer with 17 points.
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