USA - Russia
by Steve Perrin on Sep 9, 2010 1:08 AM PDT
in News
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PrintI'm back and trying to get caught up on a LOT of things. I'm behind on my school work, and as it happens I'm off to Columbia Missouri this weekend for the first of two required on campus visits in this crazy online Master's program of mine, so even though I just got back from Labor Da with the familyy, I'm heading right back out. At least this time I'll have web access. Unfortunately, I have seminars both Saturday and Sunday, and since I'll be in the Central Time Zone, the games are more in the middle of the day. In other words, no live hoops watching for me. I'm really sad about that.
Because let's face it, the games have been great. Unfortunately, I missed Brazil - Argentina, which seems like it was an instant classic. I did get to watch Serbia - Spain today, which was a great game. I don't think Serbia is going to hit threes like that every game, but it was fun to watch. By the way, what's with the Timberwolves stockpiling Euros? We were watching Rubio play against Bjelica today, and we could see a frontcourt featuring Pekovic and Milicic this season. Of course, having Rubio and Bjelica in Europe for a couple more seasons isn't helping them now.
I watched USA- Angola on the DVR when I got home. What can you say? I'm not actually thrilled with the US taking 38 threes, but if they're going to make 18 of them then it's all gravy. Eric Gordon's shot has entered a totally different dimension at this point - he scored 17 points on Monday, and he was almost invisible doing it. He just shoots and it goes in. That's all he does. And you're only surprised when it doesn't go in. EJ's eFG% for the tournament is an other-worldly 74.4%. Sure, he's feasted on some of the weaker opponents, but 74.4% is pretty damn good for shooting in an empty gym. The guy is in a zone.
It's actually very interesting to see what playing on such a good team has done for Gordon. We knew that he was a good shooter, but we all figured that Stephen Curry was quite a bit better. Obviously we're talking about relatively few games, but by the same token, going back to training camp, EJ has been shooting the lights out for Team USA for six or seven weeks now. We knew his form was gorgeous - but he's getting such clean looks for Team USA, and shooting with such confidence, that he seems like a different shooter than the guy who played a couple of seasons for the Clippers. The question will be if he can get such clean looks in the NBA, and/or if the confidence can carry over.
The one thing to worry about with the team right now is the simple fact that they haven't played a challenging opponent in 11 days. Might they be overconfident? Might they simply be rusty in terms of playing against a quality team? No other team in left in the tournament has had the recent string of patsies that the US has had. Russia could represent a rude awakening for them after Iran/Tunisia/Angola. The start will be key.
Of course there's the issue of the Russian size. The one thing that no one seems to talk about is that Kevin Love has been Team USA's most productive per minute player. And although Coach K has not played two bigs together outside of garbage time in this tournament, there's no reason he coudn't do that. Looking at the matchups, you have to wonder how long he's stick with Iguodala. I mean, he's been pretty terrible on offense, turning the ball over and bricking threes (he's missed the rim at least four times by my count). If he's playing for his defense, but he's giving away four inches and 40 pounds to Vorontsevich, then why would he be out there? I don't know if Krzyzewski would go to Odom and Love together early in the game - but it might make a lot of sense. If you're gaining better post defense, better offense and much better rebounding by bringing Love for Iggy, why wouldn't you do it?
With Spain and Greece out of the tournament, the pre-tournament view would indicate that the path is relatively clear for Team USA now. Serbia and Turkey are each undefeated, and Argentina is always tough. But every game counts now, and one bad outing sends you home. You have to like Team USA's chances, but it's still one game at a time right now.
A quick aside on the USA-USSR game from 1972. I was 9 when I watched that game, and it seemed at the time the greatest travesty in the history of the world. I watched the HBO special on it last year, and it was not as clear cut a case of robbery as it seemed to me at the time. But the simple fact of the matter is that I've never seen the last play of any other game replayed - and the last play of that game was replayed TWICE. The odds that they'd complete that pass and score that bucket on any of the plays were miniscule, so it seems ridiculous to say that the officials wanted the Soviets to win - if indeed that was their plan, it was a really bad one. But it should never have come to that. The simple fact is that games end with minor irregularities all the time. The Soviets didn't get their timeout recognized? Boo hoo. The clock didn't start? Who cares? The game should have ended twice before and it didn't. That was the problem with that game. They should have had the guts to say, "Game over. Get off the floor."
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i think ...
Turkey and Argentina are the teams to beat. It is amazing how much of a home court advantage the Turkish team has. Scola has been amazIng. Looking forward to the game tomorrow! Go USA
by ChrisS.Oaks on Sep 9, 2010 1:38 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Amateur Night
The stuff you’ve been writing for quite a while now is very negative. Do you think it makes you sound smart about basketball? Do you think you know basketball better then Coach K? you read like you do. Most annoying you’ve become so anti-Clipper that you can’t even give Eric Gordon’s outstanding performance his due and you are the front man for “Clips Nation”! Every sportswriter in the country treats the Clippers that way. The reality is thats because there are so many NBA teams that the writers don’t bother thinking about the constant losers like the Sterling Clippers they don’t even pay attention because it saves them time, it makes their jobs easier. You don’t have that excuse. The Clipper bloggers bailing on the Clipper Summer League pick-up team and the Clipper’s terrific crop of rookies after one meaningless Summer league game was hilarious and stupid. If you watched NBA ball for a decent period of time you’d notice that other then the sensational few, the Jordans, LBJs, Kobe’s etc. most players take at least three years to begin getting it together so after playing terrifically as a rookie and then dealing with an injury riddled team and a serious coaching disaster Eric Gordon is right on time. As to your repeated jabs at Eric asking whether he can do this in season and whether his teammates will respect him and whether he’ll get the same shots is remarkable. This is a different Clipper team, new coaches and GM and not a team whose front office announced the season was over with a third of the games to go and also a team that was loaded with free agents that knew they weren’t coming back. Time for Clipper fans to be much more excited about the new season then you and other bloggers are. Even without LBJ this is a much more solid Clipper team with a brighter future then last years team which you were so outrageously excited about, so why are you so negative now?
You should chill out for a minute. I think you need to re-read what he wrote.
Eric Gordon’s shot has entered a totally different dimension at this point – he scored 17 points on Monday, and he was almost invisible doing it. He just shoots and it goes in. That’s all he does. And you’re only surprised when it doesn’t go in. EJ’s eFG% for the tournament is an other-worldly 74.4%. Sure, he’s feasted on some of the weaker opponents, but 74.4% is pretty damn good for shooting in an empty gym. The guy is in a zone.
We knew his form was gorgeous – but he’s getting such clean looks for Team USA, and shooting with such confidence, that he seems like a different shooter than the guy who played a couple of seasons for the Clippers.
That is not criticism. That is praise. Gordon has been racking up points like it is nothing. You blink and you miss it, because it has been so effortless for him. The fact is Gordon has never shot 53% from three in the NBA or 58% from the field. Gordon may have been bothered by injury off and on, but Curry did look better than him offensively last season. Steve is saying that Gordon’s confidence has risen and it appears that he has taken his perimeter scoring to another level. Will he do it in the NBA’s upcoming season? That remains to be seen. Steve, like the rest of us are hoping that he does. Every Clipper fan here knew the odds were against EJ to make the team, but he’s proven that it would have been a huge mistake to have left him off. Most of us are proud of him. There’s only a handful of guys that aren’t all that impressed with his performance.
Asking will it carry over into the NBA season is not jab. It’s not a jab if you ask can the Lakers repeat? Will Miami have the chemistry needed to make a title run? Can Boston overcome the losses of Thibodeau and Perkins, etc? They are just legitimate questions that we won’t find out the definite answers until after the season takes place. Try not to be so defensive.
"Chris Kaman IS Black Sikma" - swamigusto
plus 15 on the cranky scale.
We all missed Steve. Some of us just have a funny way of showing it. Glad to have you back, Steve.
by oneight on Sep 9, 2010 6:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Worst post I've ever seen on this site.
Well done chump. Steve is one of the Clippers champions – this site wouldn’t be here without him.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Hey madglove you need to chill too!
You have to understand that theirs no need for name calling. You don’t personally know this
guy or gal plus15. I say, would you call him an idiot if he was in front of you. That kind of
behavior can get your butt kicked. Disagree with the man but chill on the name calling.
I also think he misread steve’s comments too because i thought he didn’t say anything
negative about Gordon on the contrary.
Does idiot qualify as name-calling?
Usually madglove uses much stronger names than that.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Steve idiot is a very strong word.
Moran, Stupid, imbecile, retard our just a few words associated with idiot. I enjoy this
blog because everyone here doesn’t use words to demeanor any person compared
to other blogs. Its nothing personal to madglove and i think with plus 15 he just
misread your comment.
No thanks
There’s no need to “chill” when people are being completely illogical or nonsensical. I’ll “chill” if someone is giving an informed, well-reasoned opinion that I disagree with. This has nothing to do with “disagreeing.” The post was just plain stupid.
I disagree with Steve and guys like mwhite, ClippersUK and Chuck ALL THE TIME. But I respect their perspectives.
Again, the post above was completely idiotic and thus warranted my labeling him/her as an idiot. And yes, if someone said something like that in person, I’d call them an idiot too.
So you can “chill.”
I think you've misunderstood Steve's posts entirely
You’re welcome to your own opinions of course, but it’s important that you understand Steve’s intentions with his posts. And I don’t think he’s ever had the intention of harboring negativity for the Clippers.
As for Team USA, he’s commenting on the lineups so far, and pondering whether they are going to switch up the lineup against a larger team. It’s been well documented that Kevin Love has received limited minutes despite being incredible efficient. No, none of us know the game better than Coach K does, but that doesn’t change the fact that he may be making a mistake (he’s human). Then again, we aren’t in the locker rooms or at practice, so maybe he has a good reason for not playing Kevin Love more. Steve is just using common logic here, nothing more.
That was weird
Moving on
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
One more thing
Yes, as a matter of fact I do think I’m smarter than coach K. At least some times on some things. Wouldn’t be any fun if I didn’t think I was smarter than people.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
I have to get my hands on that HBO special
Or better yet, I’d like to simply see a tape of that 1972 game. It seems a little surprising that the Russians played whole rest of the game so close; they probably deserve some credit for that. But all I’ve ever seen is a replay of the last play (all three of them), and that was just way too surreal. There are some very strange judges and referees in the Olympics.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
That would be intresting
That’s what we need on ESPN classic – a replay of that game. As I recall, shortly after the opening tip, some Soviet goon took a hard foul on the US center, they fought and both were ejected. Problem was, the US player was one of the leading scorers, and the Russian was just a body. That set the tone, and the American college guys were kind of on their heals the rest of the way. They had a nice comeback to take the lead on Collins’ free throws.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
if you use emule to download files
this is a link of the game Baloncesto- Olimpiadas 1972 – Final (USA – URSS).avi
Heeeyyy, thanks!
I’ll have to see if I have emule.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Movement
Good movement by Eric Gordon leads to an open left side for Durant to drive and get a layup.
Right
Half of what EJ’s been doing well is attracting attention of defenders on the weak side. And when they aren’t paying attention to him, he’s making them pay. Can’t really ask for more.
Yeah
EJ is always doing that back-cut-move to move around the floor and he gives them that spacing. Teams won’t want to leave EJ open at the 3 point line, especially if they are playing a zone.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure
Right now with around 7 minutes left in the 4th, EJ is playing SF with Rose, Billups, Durant, and Odom.
This is EJ’s stat line: 0 TO, 1 blk, 2 reb, 1 assist, 6 points, 2/5 3’s, 0/1 2’s
He isn’t looking too active though
More on EJ
Whenever EJ didn’t have a good look, he moved the ball around, which is good. Still, not too aggressive.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
One more stat for Gordon
Gordon also had 1 steal and 3 fouls (like many of his teammates),
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting observation
@hoopshype
Eric Gordon is not as sharp physically as many of his teammates. Muscle definition is nowhere close.
@hoopshype
Wonder if he could take it to an even higher level with more work on his body.
Interesting observation
I’ve been courtside a few times and EJ looks pretty stocky. He’s not fat but he also isn’t chiseled like a Maggs or BG. He’s got a similar body to Baron. Yet when I watch him on TV he looks thinner (and I thought the camera was suppose to add 10 pounds). He’s a young guy so maybe he still eats a lot of fast food.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Sep 9, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I saw EJ at the Kia dealer last year.
They guy is built like a rock, so how much more built does he have to be.
He's not cut
most of these guys are super lean (see Rose or Westbrook). He’s more stout like a NFL safety or OLB.
FA in 2010.
Was that the question?
I believe the question was if EJ was more cut (leaner) would it make him better? I would say yes, it would mean he would be in even better shape so why wouldn’t we want that?
FA in 2010.
id say no
The difference between him being “cut” would amount to MAYBE half a pound of fat. This doesn’t matter. Westbrook is cut either because of genetics or because he’s trying to get laid or something.
All I’m saying is that “health” has little to do with body fat, and EJ has never had a problem getting back on D or sprinting up the floor.
by indy818 on Sep 9, 2010 1:45 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It would be a lot more
just from their combine numbers, EJ had a 8.2 body fat while Westbrook was 4.6. EJ’s body fat is okay for a athlete but its about a 7 pound difference in fat from Westbrook. Would it make EJ quicker if he lost the fat? Most likely yes.
Again, what’s with the excuses? The question is simple, if EJ got leaner would it help him get to the next level, of course so why would we not hope for that to happen? I never said EJ was unhealthy, the question posed was would it make EJ better to get more toned.
FA in 2010.
RW is about 187 lbs while EJ is 220
We can’t compare them in such a simple way. These are clearly 2 different body types. The 30 pound difference is nearly all muscle (if the body fat dif is slightly over 3 %).
I’m not trying to argue about something so small, but I just don’t see this as a factor at all. What is this “next level” and what would it include. EJ’s rebounding and handles wouldn’t likely improve and these are what nearly everyone would say he needs to improve on. I’m sure the haters could stretch his inefficiencies, not that I’m calling you a hater :)
by indy818 on Sep 9, 2010 2:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What about Kevin Durant...
He’s not cut and he really doesn’t look particularly strong, would getting into Maggette-shape get him to the next level? What level would that be? The guy’s already beyond the beyond. Is that even possible?
What about Chris Kaman (Black Sikma), the guy’s a beast but he looks like a halloween farmboy zombie. Do you think he’d be better if he looked like Blake Griffin? Really?
Lately CChuck seems willing to argue about anything, especially if it picks at Eric Gordon’s flaws. But this is the dumbest.
Actually
When asked, Fraschilla said that Durant should get stronger and work on his left. He admitted that it was nitpicking, but there are always things to improve.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
im sure the first person to agree would be KD
One could argue that his body type is even better for basketball than lbj. He is long and has a great shot.
If he could muscle people around more he could develop a great post game and become unstoppable (well, even more unstoppable). It could also extend his “prime” as we’ve seen this year with kobe. He’s not as explosive and fast as he used to be, but his post game has kept him playing at an elite level. KD being so long, could be even better.
by indy818 on Sep 9, 2010 3:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
EJ is kind of built like a small running back
but that is fine for his game, it allows him to finish with contact. It may keep him from being a finesse player like some of the other guards on team USA but I don’t think it is that big a deal. I met EJ once and he seemed pretty ripped, not Maggs or Howard ripped but he definitley isn’t frail like Curry. Also I would like to know if the hoopsworld guy is actually at Turkey or just watching the TV.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
He should try to finish with clear contact more often.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Hardly
the question was would EJ benefit from being more cut. Then answer is almost always yes. Why would we not want this? He’s 21 and has some holes in his games, he’s still a fine player overall but we should always want more. Until we are at least making the playoffs we have to keep asking our guys to improve. We know the players “as is” is not enough, 48-116 the last 2 years says it all.
A open ended question was asked regarding whether EJ should tone up, I see little downside of why he (and we) wouldn’t want to.
FA in 2010.
we dont know that he doesnt want to
but i guess we are just going to disagree on this one. I dont see him gaining anything from going on a specific cutting diet (which is the only way he would end up looking that way). The way to go about this diet, assuming youre already eating healthy, is to eat 500-700 calories (per day) less than what you would eat to “maintain” your current bodyfat.
He can definitely do because he is young, but the opportunity costs could include less stamina, loss of muscle, and overtraining in general.
That's the thing
we don’t know if he’s eating healthy or not. He could be chowing down McDonald’s all day. Maybe your right and he’s already eating healthy but is just one of those guys who doesn’t look cut. There are some guys who lift weights a lot but never get big (see Rip Hamilton). It was just a simple question and EJ’s body appearance at least leaves open the possibility he could lose unnecessary weight. If he was already cut like Maggette then we know that would be a impossibility.
FA in 2010.
by ClipperChuck on Sep 9, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
From what I have seen in the 4th
USA has not looked that crisp on the offensive end. Now, Russia just got 2 backdoor dunks in a row (so a few defensive issues too).
USA only got 2 or so turnovers in the 2nd half while Russia has around 17 TO’s overrall. So that’s good.
KD
Durant has 30 right now. So he has been really important for the tougher games. EJ has been dominant for the easier games. It is a good sign though for EJ that Coach K trusted EJ’s defense for a 3 guard line-up in the 4th (maybe other times in the game too).
Durant taking advantage of mismatches
I guess a more subtle point about the zone is that because the zone defense shifts around, you can get a mismatch for your most dominant player. In this last play KD went up against a 6-2 player and got a 3 point play.
USA Wins it
USA 89 – Russia 79
The game was not as close as the score indicated. The USA just turned down the intensity in the last couple of minutes in the 4th. Still, USA could not get those easy fast break opportunities they got in their last two game (in the 4th quarter at least). Russia was stronger competition against the USA still. The USA was held to 42.6 FG% and 38.5 3FG%.
KD lead USA with 33 points (37 minutes).
According to the commentators: Westbrook had a really nice energy game getting steals and 12pts, and Odom had a very nice subtle game moving the ball and playing solid defense.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
Lineups majority of the game?
Did they end up using two bigs, or sticking with LO at C and Iggy at PF?
From what I watched
I only watched the last 9 minutes of the game, but from what I saw here were the 3 lineups I saw:
1) Rose – Billups – Gordon – Durant – Chandler
2) Rose – Billups – Gordon – Durant – Odom
3) Rose – Billups – Westbrook – Durant – Odom
I couldn’t keep track of which Russian players the US were defending because I did not know the Russian team that well (I had just turned on the stream and they were all pretty tall). Also, the game was pretty much decided by the 4th quarter, so there might have been more important lineups earlier.
Still, Billups and Iggy had 3 fouls or so before I watched, so maybe that played into it.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Billups looked great too according to the stats
Billups had 4-8 3’s, 1-1 2’s, 5 assists, 1 TO, 1 steal, and 15 points.
His playoff-regime practicing style of shooting a lot more warm up shots seems to have helped his shot according to him. This was the same player that was 4-19 3’s during group play. Billups is backing up his veteran title through leading by example.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Billups had a couple of bone head early shot clock 3's early in the game
but he was pretty decent overall. As for Westbrook he was absolutely horrendous in the 1st half and cost team USA more then a few points. In the 2nd half he looked much better and more controlled. EJ looked pretty good as well he was 2-4 from 3 and had a pretty nice pass to Iggy for and one. Iggy also had a decent game after struggling with foul trouble in the 1st quarter.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
You were right Mr. Perrin
The one thing to worry about with the team right now is the simple fact that they haven’t played a challenging opponent in 11 days. Might they be overconfident? Might they simply be rusty in terms of playing against a quality team? No other team in left in the tournament has had the recent string of patsies that the US has had. Russia could represent a rude awakening for them after Iran/Tunisia/Angola. The start will be key.
In the first half the game was pretty close and could have gone either way. The USA pulled away a bit in the 3rd and held steady enough in the 4th to seal things.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:20 AM PDT reply actions
A Defining Moment
USA was down 30-35 against Russia at one point. After that, USA went on a 12-0 run to give them positive energy going into half time.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
EJ did ok
He was on the floor when the US stopped the little run that the Russians had going in the first half of the second quarter, playing good defence. He seems to have a clearly defined role: play defence and shoot open shots. Doing a great job I think.
Anyway captain Amer… I mean Kevin Durant seems to be a lock at MVP unless Scola single-handed knocks out the US in the semi-finals.
Anyway, US won comfortably with Odom being the only big getting major playing time.
Wow Lithuania destroying Argentina
50-30 at the half. Scola having a hard time and Lithuania defending like demons. Amazing!
Yeah
Colossal difference in 3pt shooting too:
Argentina: 0/9 3’s
Lithuania: 8/10 3’s
After watching the Argentina VS Brazil game, I thought Argentina would have a great chance of making it into the semifinals. Delfino and Scola have been very inefficient today too. Lithuania brought their defense and sharpshooting today.
by ClipperTheorist on Sep 9, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Durant is out of this world.
That guy is going to be the best scorer to ever play the game when it is all said and done.
Great win for Team USA. Russia had size, but it didn’t both the US.
Lithuania will be a tough game, but I think the USA will come out and make their intensity. Btw, they played each other just last month and USA beat Lithuania by double digits in an exhibition game.
Westbrook won this game for them
he was terrific in the 3rd quarter. A couple of nice steals that led to open court dunks and a nice three point play (with a nice pass from Rudy Gay). It turned a 5 point lead into a double digit lead and that was that.
FA in 2010.
Agreed
That Westbrook fueled run was the difference, especially when you consider that the final margin was 10 (of course the US really relaxed down the stretch, after the lead had gotten up to 19).
A pet peeve of mine is announcers criticizing a style of play when it’s not working, then praising the same thing when it works. Classic examples: “there’s no need for that lob pass” “what a spectacular lob pass”; “he made the mistake of leaving his feet” “he hung in the air and made a great pass at the last second.” Anyway, the point is Westbrook was pretty terrible in the first half, taking bad shots, playing out of control, gambling on defense. Then, several defensive gambles in a row paid off in the second half, and he was the hero. Same guy – you just have to take the good with the bad with RW.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
hes definitely all all out risk taker
As vin scully would say, “you live by the sword, you die by the sword.”
by indy818 on Sep 9, 2010 1:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He's got a great motor
he’s pretty much involved in every loose ball. He dove to the ground a few times too. He’s still so raw but gets the job done because he plays as hard as anyone.
FA in 2010.
Yep Westbrook will kill you and save you sometimes in the same game
he should get better overtime as he matures.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
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