The Battier Scenario
This is the first feature by Citizen LJ Hann. LJ has been a valued citizen of Clips Nation since May of 2009 - when he was just 12 years old. An astute student of the game and an author well beyond his years, LJ will be contributing to Clips Nation to continue to develop his writing skills as he prepares to study journalism in college. Join me in welcoming LJ to the front page. Steve
It's likely that the most discussed issue among Clipper fans is the small forward position. In recent history, fans have dealt with Corey Maggette (never meshed with Dunleavy), Quinton Ross (an offensive liability), and other dysfunctional pieces. The team needs, now, a complementary piece that accents the two big stars, fits the run and gun play style, and isn't a player who would restrict cap in retaining Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.
The club has a few almosts at the position. Jamario Moon, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Ryan Gomes are the current players who are small forwards, but are any of them starters? Most would agree that none of the above are starter quality (yet, at least), but if General Manager Neil Olshey acquires another SF, how would Coach Vinny Del Negro balance Aminu, the second year prospect, Gomes, and a new player? Would Sterling be willing to watch Gomes' contract rot on the bench or in a suit? Does Gomes deserve playing time, even if he does not start?
And if the Clippers decide to look outside, where to look? Sure, there are free agents available at the position, but most are past their prime. The few young small forwards available are comparable to Aminu and Gomes in skill level - not an upgrade at all. Through trade, while the Clippers have multiple assets to package, there doesn't seem to be a good solution. An Andre Iguodala trade seems almost too drastic, acquiring a player who would take a large salary and a good chunk of shots. Also, it seems like it wouldn't be worth trading some valuable, young assets for an appropriate, "gluey" small forward. This fork in the road brings us to the Battier Scenario.
First of all, two facts need to be faced: Gomes is not sufficient as a starter, and Aminu will not be ready this year. The solution to the small forward position has to come from outside.
So, let's look at some numbers. Last year after the All Star Break (more importantly, after the Baron/Mo trade), the Clippers averaged 80.3 shots attempted per game. A large portion of these came from Gordon and Griffin, averaging 15.8 and 16.2, respectively. Gomes and Aminu each averaged just over 4 shots a game, and Moon shot 3 times per contest. If the team lets Moon walk, and reduces Gomes' role, they are looking at an incoming wingman who would take between 6-9 shots a game. For some reference, Iguodala shot 11.3 shots a game last year. Bringing in someone of that caliber would take 2 shots each from Gordon and Griffin. While that might not sound so extreme, imagine that this is a time when the Clippers need each of the two young stars to expand their game, and therefore, shots. Iggy also makes a colossal salary. That is not the direction the young Clippers are looking towards.
Well, how about looking for a young free agent to add? There could be options present in this scenario, too. Unfortunately, amongst unrestricted free agents, Al Thornton seems to be it. If the best option is to re-acquire the shot jacking former Clipper, it would be better to just start Aminu. Looking into restricted free agents, a couple options emerge. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, for example. Luc, however, is likely to be heavily pursued by his current team, the Bucks, and a mid-level type of offer sheet would probably get matched. Remember, one major goal in this search is to find a solution that is cost-effective, allowing for the extending of Gordon, Griffin, and Jordan. Players such as Jonas Jerebko, and Jeff Green are in similar situations with their current teams, while Wilson Chandler has signed with a Chinese team and won't be in the NBA this season.
There's one possibility we haven't covered. The Battier Scenario. It's a simple idea. Sign a veteran small forward, and develop Aminu under him. This obviously could refer to multiple players, but Battier is who I had in mind when I thought of it. Give said veteran small forward a 2-3 year mid level contract, and hopefully by the time that contract expires, Aminu is ready to be our full time starter. Shane Battier attempted 4.4 shots a game last year, in compliance with our ideal numbers. Grant Hill shot 10 shots a game last year, but I think he would be willing to bring that down. I'm more concerned with his age; Battier at 33 can last to 35/36, can Hill at 38 last to 40/41? Andrei Kirilenko shot 8.4 times a night, still within the target range, and he is only 30. However, even though he is younger, Andrei has already shown a more severe decline in skill and athleticism than the 33 year old Battier or the 38 year old Hill.
If the Clippers sign Battier to a 2 year, 5 million a year contract, that contract will expire at the same time as Gomes' and Aminu's, allowing the club flexibility to either retain Aminu, or look elsewhere with the funds. In the meantime, Battier is a renowned defender and a savvy veteran without a history of injuries. He is a solid shooter, 38.5% on three pointers in his ten years in the league, allowing floor spacing for Griffin. A mid level contract in no way restricts the team in keeping its key assets. Battier doesn't take shots from the young stars, and he doesn't make mistakes, averaging 0.7 turnovers and 1.3 fouls a game last year.
Why not allow the young Aminu to develop? Al-Farouq is athletic, but he seems lost on the floor. That is something that a few years of maturity can help. So the obvious solution is to not make a rash trade for an overpaid wingman, to not splurge on a younger RFA, and to absolutely not stay with Gomes at the small forward. Sign a veteran to the MLE, and watch the young Aminu develop over the next couple of years.
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i like battier
He definitely would be helpful in showing the guys how to compete at the highest levels should our beloved young squad make the playoffs…
I agree
Battier wiould be a great fit for the Clippers. He does not take that many shots so he will not take any offense away from Blake, Eric, or Mo who I expect will dominate the ball the majority of the team. All he needs to do is play defense, which he is very good at and help pass to improve ball movement.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Oct 6, 2011 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Watch out Steve. Your job may be in danger.
Well written young man. Anyway, I have always had Battier on my radar as a potential anchor with experience. Smart, team oriented, plays sound defense and a great character guy. Kind of the antithesis of our high flyers as I think I read he has the least amount of dunks per minute of anyone at his postion. This may be a good thing though.
"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."
It's a good approach
Battier, Kirilenko, Prince… any of those three would be decent gets at the right price. Of course it remains to be seen what that price might be, and whether they would be willing to sign with the Clippers. The Clippers can offer a good young team, and a lot of minutes at least in the first year or so. But it’s definitely going to take a longer term contract – probably at least 4 years – to get one of these guys.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
I could see Battier trying to get with a contender...especially if MLE comes to only $3M and amnesty clause gets in
The ability to guard (to a respectable degree) Lebron, Kobe or Pierce would make me think the Spurs cough amnesty RJ cough to be the best fit.
We could be a contender with Battier and one more
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Oct 6, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Battier
but I don’t think we will be able to get him,I think the MLE is going to be much smaller so he might end up going to contender as banandy said. I also disagree that Iggy wouldn’t be the right move, Iggy is quite possibly one of the best point forwards out there and seeing as Mo is a much better shooter than he is passer (although I don’t he his that bad as a PG) so getting a guy like Iggy would help us use Mo better. Iggy is also one of the better defenders in league and he can feasibly guard the 2,3,and the occasional stretch 4 which would allow VDN some flexibility on defense. Add into that Iggy’s strong rebounding ability which as been a weakness for us outside the 4 and 5 position. Overall I think it’s easy to say that Iggy is a superior player and while his contract is large, it to expires in two years so it’s far from a Curry like albatross. He won’t come for free either but I think that the 76ers are going to try and dump him and Kaman’s expiring contract + a second pick or two may be enough to get him.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Thoughts
A lower mid level would actually help the Clippers land Battier. The Baron trade did reduce the payroll, and presumably the Clippers will have room to make an offer (of course we don’t know what the cap will be nor even if we’ll have a season, but that’s a best guess). So the Clippers could make a more lucrative offer than contenders who are over the cap could.
I agree that Iguodala is still a great option, but of course it depends on the cost. We know the cost of his contract… we don’t know the cost in the trade. But you certainly don’t include the Minny pick. In the end, I doubt the Clippers can actually get Iggy.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Oct 6, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
imo, there are two options
Either we go for the Iggy-for-Kaman swap, and then try to use the Minny pick with Foye + cap to try and acquire another asset.
Or we try to use our cap space to try and pick up a FA like Battier or Kirilenko, and we use Kaman + Minny (and maybe + Foye) pick to try and acquire a high-level asset. For example, if CP3 or D-Will aren’t happy with their situations.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Option 2
I kind of like option 2… the Minny pick is pure gold, but you need Kaman’s contract to make a huge deal work. Hopefully the new CBA won’t have a “Carmelo Rule” complicating extensions for traded players. Haven’t heard much talk of that recently.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Oct 6, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand the Carmelo Rule.
As it reads, it merely stops the Sign and Extend. So if D-Will, CP3, and Dwight REALLY want out, no team will trade value for them without that guarantee, meaning they walk at the end and their teams get absolutely nothing.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Oct 6, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
That's why it's good to trade for superstars that have kids
Then you can hold the kids hostage to make sure they resign! There are no holes in this plan…
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Solid
I like where your head’s at
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
the way I understand it
is that their Bird rights wouldn’t be transferred too, so they’d probably lose out on a max extension if it puts the team over the cap the following year. Think the Knicks are already over the cap from last year due to Melo’s extension. Players that way won’t really demand a trade. You may be right too though, in that because players won’t have as much incentive to force a trade, they may just wait for the open market, but in that case it also requires other teams to open up a ton of cap space for them. I don’t think they will have nearly as many options on the open market, and it’s still yet to be seen what other incentives they might put into place for the home team to keep them. The Lebron/Bosh/Wade scenario was pretty radical in the fact that there were SO many superstars that summer, teams were willing to take the gamble that they could lure one of them. I’m not sure how many times there’s going to be like 8 teams that can offer a max extension to any of these guys.
I know Josh Smith isn't a good fit for the Clippers, but...
If they want Horford to play the 4 and want someone like Kaman at the 5…I’ve got to think there are some possible 3-wat trade scenarios to be looked at. For example, would the Hornets consider Josh Smith + Minny pick in exchange for CP3?
We should send that deal to the Nets.
CP3’s knee scares me too much.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Oct 6, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
"Bringing in someone of that caliber would take 2 shots each from Gordon and Griffin."
I don’t think this is true. Iggy may have averaged over 11 shots per game for Philly, but he was/is their Number One option on offense. He’d be third here, his passing and D would be emphasized. Iggy’s shot attempts will go down.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Oct 6, 2011 12:28 PM PDT reply actions
Also, subtracting Kaman would mean a higher pace.
As would replacing Gomes with Iggy, creating more shots, overall.
Battier is the Glue guy for the team!
Perfect fit for the team because he will bring that good defense and experience to
the team.
A Battier contract does not restrict them from keeping their key assets
I don’t agree that this is an issue at all. The key assets are Blake, EJ and DJ. They can all be re-signed without regard for the current cap situation.
Yes, but
EJ’ extension kicks in in 12-13; Blake’s in 13-14. Large contracts running into those seasons (especially 13-14) could put the Clippers into a high payroll situation. Iggy’s deal has one year of overlap with Blake’s big contract, so that may be a showstopper. Would the Clippers have a 13-14 roster were they were paying $16M to Iggy, $14M to Griffin, $13M to Gordon and $10M to Jordan? $50M+ to 4 guys? Doesn’t sound much like Sterling.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
The math is correct, but what would really stop them from going that far?
Sterling hesitant to spend over the cap as other owners have? Everyone says this, but has it really been tested? Every year recently the Clippers have been restriced by the cap since they do not have access to the cap exceptions, not as a result of Sterling’s cheapness. We haven’t retained players who put us over the cap because we haven’t drafted anyone worth keeping (sorry Shaun) at year 4 … except Kaman. So we are restricted from joining that over the cap club. Sterling’s fear of spending hasn’t really been tested in a long time.
This is a great first atricle and I like it a lot
However, I disagree about getting Battier. I think he should be our last guy to target, unless he is willing to come very cheaply. His shooting dropped off drastically last year, and his defense, while still excellent, also fell off a little. He might do slightly better as a shooter this year, but his defense and athleticism will probably continue to fall.
In other words, I am afraid he will end up being not that much of an upgrade over Gomes, except in the leadership department, which isnt why we need a SF.
My top option would still be some sort of Kaman for Iggy swap, or a Bledsoe and Aminu for Iggy swap or something.
Chris Bernucca from Sheridan Hoops thinks Tayshaun Prince would be an ideal fit
http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/10/06/nba-free-agents/
TAYSHAUN PRINCE: He has a lot of postseason mileage on him but has remained durable despite his frail frame. Probably needs a change of scenery to recharge his batteries. BEST FIT: Clippers, where his veteran presence would be welcome. DOLLAR STORE ALTERNATIVE: Rasual Butler.
LJ is that young?! Wow...impressive.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Yeah, that was a great writeup for ANY age
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
i really wouldn't mind
prince, hill, or battier. Not to go all sterling on everyone, but I might just take whoever you’d think you can get the cheapest. I doubt the clips will be any of their ideal destination, and the clips will probably have to outspend the contenders/perennial playoff teams, but obviously some will get paid more than others. I’m thinking HIll might be willing to take the shortest contract, but then again, he’s just as likely to stay loyal to Nash and the Suns as he is to go ring chasing, so you really don’t know how it’d play out.
Let’s say you were going to show up on one of their door steps on midnight “July 1st”, that’s a very difficult question for me to answer. I think I might try to go after HIll on a 2 year contract, over Prince or Battier who probably want longer contracts. I just feel like Prince and Battier, are still looking for that last big long term contract, and will spend the time to get the best deal they can.
can we show up on their door step at midnight?
I’m serious
If we have any NFL fans here
When Rex Ryan first became the Jets coach, he showed up at Ravens free agent Bart Scott’s house at midnight to sign him.
"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

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