Clippers Rumors - Tayshaun Prince, Caron Butler on the List
by Steve Perrin on Nov 30, 2011 2:34 PM PST
in Trade Rumors
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PrintWe've mostly been speculating to this point about whom the Los Angeles Clippers would target as a free agent small forward. According to Broderick Turner of the LA Times, our new best friend as the big media beat writer for the team, Tayshaun Prince and Caron Butler are high on the list.
That Prince is at the top of the list is hardly a surprise. General Manager Neil Olshey's description of the type of player he wanted at small forward has long been a police artist's sketch of Prince. When you're looking for "championship experience" it narrows the field a bit.
Butler is more of a surprise, because he's more of a risk. A two-time All Star who made the team as recently as 2008, he's also 31 and returning from knee surgery, the last in a series of injuries that have limited his playing time in recent seasons.
I still suspect that Shane Battier and Andrie Kirilenko are of interest to the Clippers, and the fact that they're not mentioned in Turner's piece doesn't mean they are not. However, it may be that Olshey thinks Prince and/or Butler are more likely targets. Remember, Kirilenko may be worth more to New Jersey and their Russian Billionaire owner Mikhail Prokhorov. Meanwhile, Battier will likely be in high demand. For what it's worth, Prince has always been the one that I believed Olshey would go after.
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Are Butler and Prince not the same age?
I guess the difference is the surgery?
They are definitely similar is being completely uninspired and not worth waiting two free agencies for the solution. Replacing Gomes with Prince will be a huge upgrade, but that’s mostly a comment on Gomes. Pretty smart intentionally failing so hard last summer.
Who knows Butler's status
After surgery. He could be a steal, but his recent injuries are worrisome. Not a bad consolation if we cant get Prince, but id only do a 2 year deal with Caron.
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
And in this scenario Prince is the prize?
Lowered expectations.
yah maybe we should have higher expectations and sign Outlaw or Miller or Childress
like John R vociferously ripped us fo rnot doing last year.
Oh wait, they’re all likely amnesty candidates this year and should be had for a fractoin of the cost.
Oh wait, if we had signed them we probably couldn’t be after CP3.
LOLembarrassing
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Even in the scenario where the Clippers overpaid on Childress they could simply amnesty him and still be in the CP3 trade market.
Neil Olshey hasn’t been all bad I guess, but he botched the crap out of the amnesty situation. He allegedly had the foresight to know the lockout was coming so he locked up Cook for 2 years, but he didn’t consider an amnesty provision might be in the cards before tossing in an unprotected first rounder to get rid of a guy that could have been amnesty’d.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
yeah. . .the Baron trade is a whole other debate.
All will be forgotten if we land CP3
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
I still am skeptical as to whether DTS would actually amnesty anyone
Just doesn’t seem like his bag, baby.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Please
BD would not be amnestied by DTS. Amnesty is not a device for shrewd cheap owners. It is a device to fix mistakes. The BD trade wasn’t a bad move.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
BTW, the scale is nowhere near the same level
But he bought out Cassell and Rasual which is paying somebody to go away.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
I was referring to Dunleavy...
Do we know how much the Cassell buy out was? Can’t remember, but I think it was very, very little because Sam I Am was motivated to “get a ring”
Cassell
was bought out for about $850K.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"- Qui-Gon Jinn
nowhere near what it would cost to amnesty Baron
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
c'mon
DTS would totally amnesty BD
he just would give BD a job as like a ticket salesman, and claim that BD is no longer subject to his salary as a player since he’s a ticket salesman, and wouldn’t pay him his player salary, requiring BD to file a lawsuit. I think that sounds about right…
you forgot about the part where
BD calls him a racists
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
Michael White, re: Amnesty
Dude, you’re smarter than that. Don’t act like Neil didn’t consider Amnestying Baron. His hands were/are tied. DTS would NOT pay Baron to leave. It’s that simple, bro.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Nov 30, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Not a bad gig for Olshey. Any bad move and people will just blame his boss.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
It was a semi bad move for other reasons
I just don’t really think the amnesty thing factors in, is all. I mean, we can’t know what DTS would have done, but we do know his history. Historically, has DTS ever waived a player being paid a significant amount of money? If my understanding of the amnesty provision is correct, to the extent that teams aren’t willing to pick up his salary, it would essentially be the same as a waiver (from a dollars-coming-out-of-Sterling’s-silk-line-pockets standpoint).
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Either way Baron is gone and now we have extra cash.
Now we can get somebody in here who is serious about
winning basketball games. We can have that amnesty
for someone else.
I can’t think of any examples, but this is a unique scenario. Baron would have been the poster child for amnesty (even though I liked him and thought he had value) so there’s no historical comp to judge how Sterling has acted in the past. He’s also taken on significant salary to help the team (that’s basically what amnestyi’ing is, if the reverse—-paying a guy to go away so you can add value elsewhere) when he traded nothing for guys like Camby, Randolph and Butler who other teams just dumped to save money. I think the “Sterling is cheap” thing just gets used as a catch all.
I can only evaluate the basketball implications, not Sterling’s motives, and the basketball implications of that trade particularly considering the amnesty provision later adopted was frankly disastrous.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Point taken
I can see that viewpoint.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
You might like him
But those who run the team and pay the bills don’t and their position is reasonable. Again you’d pay 30M for the rights to Irving. Yeah right.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
This is ludicrous
BD was a cancer owed 30 million. They were lucky to get a taker. You would pay 30M to retain the rights to the likely 7th pick in the worst draft of the last 15? I doubt you would.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Now we're just using hyperbole
BD was not a cancer, in the way that the term is most commonly used in the NBA. This isn’t Ron Artest picking fights with fans, this isn’t Monta Ellis saying that he doesn’t think he can coexist with Steph Curry, and this isn’t even Westbrook bickering with his coach on live TV.
BD maybe hogged the ball a bit, which (from what I know) bothered EJ a little, but people on the team looked up to him. When Blake was getting in fights with Chalmers, BD was right there to get in his face and tell him to sit his ass down because we needed him to finish the game. When Bledsoe turned the ball over, you could see Baron counseling him, not shouting at him to take care of the ball. That one game, when EJ drove and kicked to Baron, and Baron swung the ball to Novak in the corner for the W, Baron was already cheering and going nuts before the shot went up. The team celebrated and Baron was right there through it all. Yes, he showed up to camp out of shape after spending time in China promoting his shoes, but the previous year he showed up to camp in incredible shape.
Is he worth $30mil? Heck no. But it’s not about $30mil. You’re not paying $30mil to retain the rights to the draft pick, you’re paying $11mil extra (Mo’s contract is about $19mil) AND Baron’s a little more productive than Mo. And it’s not about using that draft pick—-it’s about trading that draft pick. We could have gotten George Hill for that draft pick, even if it fell to 7th or 8th.
Personally, I think overall the trade has proven to be slightly negative, but only in a 45-55 kind of way, nothing major. But there’s no need to use hyperbole. You’re making it seem like the trade was positive in a 90-10 kind of way, and that’s ludicrous.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
The trade was 50-50
Mo Clearly is a better Shooter than Baron and is not a “quantity shooter” like Baron. Also, the trade was about making Gordon the top dog during last minutes of the 4th. Eddie Jones had to go so Kobe could be #1.
Plus, it was about getting out from under Baron’s contract. The Clips are fortunate the Cavs were willing to trade.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Exactly
And to me the fact that the suppsed leader showed up out of shape and then got hurt causing us to lose 13 of the 14 games to start the season, killing the season, means that he was a cancer. Basketball is not first for him and that attitude just permeates and destroys an impressionable young team.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Really?
That doesn’t make sense, man. Look, I understand that you’ve had plenty of arguments about this with John R and whoever, where you must fervently defend your position that the Baron trade was a good idea. I get it. It’s like politics. Republicans can’t concede any points to the Democrats. Even on areas where they might be willing to budge a little, when viewed by the public they MUST stick to their position or else they’ll have “lost” in some way. They don’t want to be the first to blink. Okay, fine.
But this isn’t politics, and this isn’t “viewed by the public.” I really don’t care enough about which one of you wins. I do care about badmouthing a former Clipper. Feel free to give your opinion about him, but don’t purposefully overblow it just to fortify your arguments against John R. You guys always do this, making various points that seem sometimes out of left field, just to jab at each other. I see enough politics on the news and at work, we shouldn’t have that crap here.
Okay, so maybe I’m out of line here, and maybe I’m jumping the gun. Maybe you actually think Baron was a cancer to the team. That’s fine, but if you’re going to take that position, then, you’ll have to do better than, “he was out of shape and it was his fault we lost 13 of 14 games.” That was a teeny, tiny fraction of Baron’s time with the Clippers, and it’s really unfair to base your judgment on that.
(Clearly I’m having a bad day at work.)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
What are you talking about?
Maybe cancer is the wrong word. He doesn’t commit himself to his profession and thereby lets down the entire team and the fanbase, while at the same time taking a huge chunk of the payroll. That also is a very poor basis for mentoring young studs like BG and EJ.
You want your best player to be an absolute stud – a leader. Someone that you could count on in a foxhole. Baron is the exact opposite of that. Nice guy, but not someone you want guiding your team.
I could care less what John R or anyone else thinks about this subject. I do know that my views are similar to the views of the Clipper brass, which wanted him out of here in the worst way.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Forgot to mention that his skills are
rapidly declining.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Cancer, to me, is a player who causes dysfunction in the team
Like.. Sprewell or Marbury. But even as far as being a non-committed bum, Baron’s not exactly Eddy Curry.
Like.. Sprewell or Marbury. But even as far as being a non-committed bum, Baron’s not exactly Eddy Curry.First, I think you should replace “best player” with “highest paid player.” I agree he was paid to do a hell of a lot more than he did, for sure. He was paid $12mil a year, when he probably only played at an $8mil level. I agree we couldn’t really count on him at all, and that was what we needed from him.
Like.. Sprewell or Marbury. But even as far as being a non-committed bum, Baron’s not exactly Eddy Curry.First, I think you should replace “best player” with “highest paid player.” I agree he was paid to do a hell of a lot more than he did, for sure. He was paid $12mil a year, when he probably only played at an $8mil level. I agree we couldn’t really count on him at all, and that was what we needed from him.Sorry about the politics thing, I just wanted to be sure you weren’t just picking a super extreme position for reasons other than to evaluate Baron.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
What exactly was bad about the BD for MO and capspace trade?
The fact that somehow they ended up getting the first pick, even though that was extremely unlikely?
Also, given BD’s personality was it really a surprise that he didn’t come to camp in shape for BG’s first year here – causing us to tank the season?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not the first pick, I don't even consider that a factor since I've long said we never had a first pick.
But yes, my stance is that we could have used the draft pick (7th or 8th) to trade for someone. George Hill, who is a PG that could have fit great with the team, was had for a 15th pick. While I think we probably evaluated the weakness of the draft correctly, we didn’t properly evaluate the usefulness of a draft pick for trading purposes.
There are downsides too—-if you get George Hill then maybe you don’t have room to get CP3 or something—-but that’s why it’s only 51-49 for me. As time passes, that will get closer and closer to 50-50 I suspect (as we find other reasons why we needed that cap space).
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
No he is arguing for amnesty - throwing $30 million away
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Throwing away $30mil
I see, I thought you meant Baron as a replacement to Mo. Still, i don’t think he fits the description of “a cancer.” No reason to try and spin this, we know what Baron was. He wasn’t as great as he should have been, but he wasn’t bad at all. He was just ok. He failed to meet expectations, but he wasn’t a disaster.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
No way our team would go anywhere with BD at the helm
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And i'm sure MW doesn't really think
they should have hung onto BD and amnestied him this year thowing away $30 M simply to save the likely 7th pick in a horribly weak draft.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I’m not sure if this comment is an insult or not. On the one hand, you say I’m smart. On the other hand you say I dumb (or that my comment is dumb anyway)
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
The fact is, Prince was a starter on a title team.
No other SF free agent can say the same. Ive read folks on here bash Prince saying he’s overrated, his teams sucked the last few years (have you seen these Piston teams?Prince is the least of their issues) He is a perfect 4th option/defender/corner shooter for a team in need of experienced vets.
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
Coincidences are hard to sort out aren't they?
Many 3’s would have worked on that team just as well. Probably better!
But how do you really know?
Its easy to look at an abstract painting and say ‘huh? I could have painted that!’ But you didn’t. Sure, the pistons could have had Caron Butler at the 3 and won the title, but they didn’t. They had Tayshaun Prince, and he made clutch threes, a clutch chase-down block on Reggie Miller in the conference finals, and clutch defense on Kobe on the biggest stage. He proved he can help a team win a title, and that in itself gives Prince an edge.
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
Yup
And the Lakers probably only started their current dominance thanks to the contributions of Travis Knight.
Provide something specific about Prince that at least starts to prove he had anything to do with them winning other than he was there. For extra credit, please share why the fact that you come with, while possibly relevant eight years ago and in that specific setting, applies today.
The Pistons were led by a dominant but non-scoring center and an elite PG. They also featured a high volume, not good efficiency SG and a pair of feathery soft PFs. Really when you look at it, even assuming he was part of the success, he was in a situation that is completely opposite of the Clippers.
Because today there aren't any better options?
I mean, no one’s suggesting to overpay him.
We need to fill the hole at SF, and so in that case you take the best SF available. If you’re in a position where you have to start winning or your superstar walks, then you do what you can to win now. If that means replacing a severely below-average SF with a severely average SF, then that’s an improvement.
Do you wait til next season when there are perhaps better players available, but risk increasing the likelihood that Blake gives up on the team and jets? Do you use your trade assets to get an above-average-but-not-superstar SF (e.g. Iggy), but risk losing out on a chance at a LeBron-level player (e.g. CP3)?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Specifics? You mean the ones i already pointed out?
Like the chasedown block on Reggie, corner threes in the clinching title game (threes that will be wide open for him on the Clippers on Blake kickouts), tough man-to-man D on Kobe? Yeah, we shouldnt overpay, but for a 3rd-4th option ill take a high IQ vet defender like Tayshaun. Oh, and he’s no slouch on offense either, if EJ or Mo get into foul trouble. Here’s some highlights from last season-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjuOpfuDUKw
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Prince and Travis Knight
Prince: 32.9 minutes per game, 34.6 in the playoffs during 2004 championship
Knight: 6.5 minutes per game, 3.4 in the playoffs during 2000 championship
Let’s at least be intellectually honest in the discussion. Prince was a starter and played the fourth most minutes on a championship team. That’s not nothing, and you can’t dismiss it with comparison to Travis Knight or Adam Morrison.
Also strange that you asked for specifics while cassellmania did exactly that – far too specific when singling out the Reggie chase down perhaps, but specific nonetheless.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Nov 30, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Prince > Knight?
Sounds like something you found in the Stratego rulebook!
What other options are available at SF without using trade assets? Hope for Chilldress to be amnestied and pounce?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
eh
Not so sure about Childress. Cant really shoot, i guess hes a good defender but he looked pretty bad on the Suns last year. . .
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
You watch a lot of Suns games last year ? Serious question.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Haha you got me. . .
I think i saw maybe 2 or 3 games he played in, but like i said- didnt look so hot. . .and thus couldnt get many minutes
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
From my cousin in Phoenix, die hard Suns watcher
“Childress is damn good around the basket, and he needs to work on his long range shot, but I like him. He works hard too. Oh and Chilly is a solid defender through and through. I like him a lot.”
There you have it… just one man’s opinion of course, but at least he watches the shiznit out of the Suns.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
No Childress please!
I rather have Butler or Prince here. If its Prince we have
someone with Championship experience.
He's great - his contract is horrible
As I said last year.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Don't particularly love his contract either
He seems more like a MLE kinda guy.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Don't worry he'll be amnestied and you can get him for
cents on the dollar.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I airballed a FT a couple weeks ago
And of course I thought of DJ…
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
So you are backing the play of Prince?
Ill add it to your defending the signings of Foye and Gomes.
Now that’s embarrassing.
Is that what I said?
No. I said that if they made all the loser desperation moves you advocated and that I was against we wouldn’t be in this position.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
So you aren’t saying anything.
As usual.
Embarrassing.
Ok mr Childress miller outlaw as proof olshey sucks
I will have to pull out the old posts. Youll never come back.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
re: Mike Miller
Why would Miami amnesty Miller anyway? Won’t they still be over the cap by virtue of employing 2 superstars and one guy paid like he is? They can just keep Miller and build out their roster using cap exceptions.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
He sucks that's why
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
?
They are better off keeping Miller so they can use the MLE and get themselves a center.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
This was pretty much my thinking
Unless you think Mike Miller litetrally hurts the team when he’s on the floor.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
How often is he on the floor?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
(If I understand their financial situation correctly)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Whoa whoa, who said Prince is a prize of any kind?
Prince would be someone who could make our lineup seem solid for a superstar like CP3 to join. He’s just a piece of the puzzle, most definitely not the big time pickup we’ve been waiting for and attempted (poorly) to coast to with Gomes/Foye.
Just look at the FA list of small forwards… there’s no one particularly better than Prince. There are plenty of talented bigs, but that’s not what we’re going after here.
Now, if we’re talking about trading, that’s another story, but again, what options do we have if we actually intend to make a run at DWill or CP3? There aren’t many great SF out there, so maybe getting a solid, veteran roleplayer as a FA is the better option at SF, while we save our trade assets (Minny pick and Kaman-contract) to try and trade for the real talent.
If Prince is it, as far as pickups go, then we’re big losers. If Prince is just first piece, and we get more and better pieces with our trade assets, then we’re winners. BUT I don’t think we should be in a huge rush to grab Prince, since there’s always the possibility that we’ll need extra cap space to take on a bad contract (Hedo, Okafor) in exchange for receiving CP3. You only grab Prince when you’re sure it won’t hurt your chances at getting your superstar.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
So this is only a good plan IF you still plan to get a star
But if Olshey thinks we should be happy with Prince, and that’s it, then he’s not a very good GM.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Yes
Prince is just one step toward contender status, not the final one
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Battier
Many on here clamor for Battier, but he’ll probably go to a contender for the minimum, or stay with the Grizz. Prince should be the #1 target. I used to be all for getting Iggy but id rather save all our trade chips for the potential CP deal. . .
What's your definition of "contender"?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Miami, Dallas, Lakers, Thunder, Chi
I would love to have Battier, and we could make a better offer than the above teams, but im just assuming at this point in his career he’ll be looking for a ring, or stay with the(also contending) team that drafted him.
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
We should take the best defender out of the two.
So, that means Tayshaun Prince?
Clippers own staples center!!!
I'll be content with the least expensive of the two.
I’d prefer Prince, but Butler could work as long as his knee is good to go.
Proud member of Club FTR
Sounds about right. Like JR says above, both are kind of just “meh.” If healthy, Butler is probably better and I’ve had a man-crush on him since the Clippers inexplicably didn’t draft him out of Connecticut.
by Michael White on Nov 30, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously Questioning Butler
High usage player on not a very good team, traded to Mavs and they win a title completely without his help? Can we assume he’s no better than Marion, and quite probably worse?
+ the knee thing…
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Nov 30, 2011 3:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions
When I was in high school Tayshaun and Dominguez DESTROYED us in CIF
Here’s to hoping he joins the Clippers, CP3 comes over for Kaman’s expiring/Minny pick/an additional future first round pick and the rest of the league feels the wrath that we did at Bellflower that fateful winter evening of 1998.
Where'd you go to school?
I was at Redondo Union at the same time and he killed us.
I went to Bellflower High School
We also had Josh Childress (Mayfair) and Jason Kapono (Artesia) in our league at the same time. Needless to say we didn’t get many wins.
He was amazing
Lights out everywhere on the court. He was the kind of shooter that you knew was going to make every shot once it released his hand.
Childress, on the other hand, always fascinated us. None of us were ever that overly impressed with him; he just seemed to be a really well-rounded player. We were all surprised even further when he was drafted in the first round as well. Then again he’s in the NBA making millions and I’m going to be up all night writing behavioral reports so I guess he’s getting the last laugh at my impression of him.
by yaggiefresh on Nov 30, 2011 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
Clippers need both talent and experience
Battier, Prince would seem like great team chemistry/leadership improvements. Make the dollars work, Neil.
Make me the GM and I'd somehow get FA Bantum from Portland as my 1st choice...
Portland’s way over the cap, they already have a good SF, and Bantum is only on his 2nd NBA contract, so he won’t break Sterling’s bank…
Also, if FA D-Jordon wants too much, then I’ll overspend, but it will be on FA T-Chandler.
I like the way we're going...
Prince, Battier, and Butler are good charcter guys. Good players too. Prince will definitely fill the our need at the SF position and if we can get the Hornets to deal CP3 to us our lineup will be one of the best in the league.
PG: CP3
SG: EJ
SF: Prince
PF: Blake
C: DJ
Prince is a dream fit.
I argued with Pincus for months of Twitter, he was adamant Tay was like a 13th or 14th option. Never understood that logic from him…
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Nov 30, 2011 4:31 PM PST reply actions
Butler is definitely the more dynamic player
Yes, he’s coming of an operation, but he’s a guy that can put 30 up on any given night. He’s a great scorer.
Prince is a good supporting player that can defend, rebound, hit the 3 when needed. He appears to have lost a step and is not a big time scorer anymore.
It’s a tossup…if Gordon is going to get injured again, Butler’s firepower is definitely needed more. If the team stays healthy, Prince’s well-rounded game and “glue” characteristics would help more.
This is going to be my team, and we're going to rise together.
-Clipper Darrell
Is it possible that we trade Kaman, Aminu for Iggy and then sign Mbah a Moute as a backup??
Clippers own staples center!!!
Once we secure DJ, going after Iggy would be my next goal
If DJ somehow gets away, we will need Kaman.
The Need at Small Forward
The Clippers don’t need a big time scorer out of their small forward position. If I remember right, the Clips won almost any time Gomes put up 15 points. What we need is someone who can be expected to put up 14-15 points just about every time out. Both Prince and Butler fit that bill. I’m a little bit more familiar with Prince who starred down the road from me at UK, but Prince is a good spot up shooter, can create his own shot when the clock winds down, plays great defense at 6’9" with very long arms, and holds his own on the boards. He can also handle the ball some when Gordon is off the floor and defend the 2 position well if called on. Prince also seems to be the kind of guy who is respected by other players. Whether Prince matches up with the Clippers better than Butler or another player is another matter, but the Clips would be very competitive now and a more attractive landing spot for a third star if they signed someone of Prince’s caliber this year.
yes
and while i would love to have CP3 on the clips, i think the smart play is to keep improving a team that is playing .500 basketball as far as im concerned.
this current team with a healthy butler or prince has a shot at the playoffs. Im counting on improvement from almost every player on the team (EJ, BG, DJ, Bled, AFA). Foye will produce at times and Gomes cannot play any worse. Kaman should have a better year.
Adding a consistent veteran who really wants to win is huge for us IMO.
I think the Clips are playing this out perfectly...
I think Prince is a great fit for what the Clipper’s need. But are looking to lock up DJ and EJ first. The only players I would like to see at the 3— that are realistic: Danny Granger, Wilson Chandler (stuck till March), danilo gallinari would also be a great fit.
As I Have Posted Before Prince Would Be A Gigantic Mistake.
He will slow the offense down something awful
NO please do not acquire Prince, please.
He cant slow us down any more than Kaman
and that never seemed to be a huge detriment to the team’s style.
Having seen some Piston highlights from last year. . .
Prince was often the recipient of outlet passes on the fast break for monster dunks. I think it depends on the system, under Brown he was walk-it-up the court, but under Flip Saunders? Different story. He’s more athletic than he seems, i think the past few years he had to shoulder the load on both sides of the court whereas on the Clips he will play the role he should as a glue guy.
by cassellmania on Nov 30, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Based on what?
The Pistons slow pace or Prince’s actual tendencies? Both suggest he’ll fit in fine on a running team. He’s long, athletic and when the surrounded by better players moves the ball just fine.
i've never been a fan of butler
maybe just because the only real time i’ve consistently watched him was during his short time w/ the lakers. He really didn’t seem to make much of an impact there. I guess he was good enough for the lake show to land Kwame.
I’ve always liked prince for some reason. Just always seemed to play pretty smart ball. I haven’t seen much of him since the days when the Pistons were making the ECF every year (other than the few games against the clips). Stats wise, he doesn’t seem to be regressing at much some people would make you think.
A name i never hear being brought up from the Pistons is Jonas Jerebko, who I also like. I’m not sure how much he’s worth, to the point that Pistons wouldn’t match. But people thought Portland overpaid Wes Matthews when they signed him away from Utah. Might be able to get him cheaper than all the other bigger, older names, and could be a good piece moving forward into the future as well.
Chris Kaveman for Tayshaun Prince?
The Pistons held off on trading forward Tayshaun Prince last season, and it could pay off in the form of Chris Kaman.
According to the Los Angeles Times, the L.A. Clippers have reached out to Prince, an unrestricted free agent. Prince is a Compton, Calif., native and could want to return to the West Coast.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20111201/SPORTS0102/112010482/Report—Clippers-interested-in-Tayshaun-Prince—Kaman-could-be-part-of-deal#ixzz1fLJv2PaB
Thanks
I’d be surprised if the Clips took this route… Unless they really going after Howard.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Maybe the Magic want cap space this year
Trading Kaman for Prince sign-and-trade would probably clear up another $6Mil in salary cap for the Clips. They could trade Gordon, Aminu, and Bledsoe for Howard and absorb the $11M in salary difference. Or even throw in another contract from Orlando (Duhon). That opens up about $14M in space for Orlando. Amnesty Arenas and suddenly they’re under the cap and can afford to take a run at the big name centers. The Clippers would still have the Minny pick to trade or maybe use it to fill the SG whole (Jeremy Lamb?? Can Barnes play SG?)
The problem is this is practically the same trade as the Nets except they’re taking back Turkolgu’s contract. Is Gordon, Aminu, and Bledsoe better then Lopez and 2 future non-lottery draft picks?
Unfortunately
Either the author is misunderstanding the new CBA or I am. He says Prince could get the higher raises if they go sign and trade – I don’t think it’s true. Pretty sure it’s not, as has been discussed ad infinitum in the Chris Paul Situation (heretofore referred to as the CPS).
So I see what is in this trade for DET – but I don’t see what is in it for Prince or for the Clippers. Actually, there is nothing in it for Prince, that’s a given (again, if I’m understanding new CBA). The Clippers can keep Kaman’s expiring to use as a trade chip. Unless we find out that ORL or NOH is desperate for immediate cap relief (certainly possible in ORLs case, where they’re deep in luxury tax territory currently) then absorbing the money in a trade is no advantage. In NOH’s case, given the higher minimum payroll, I’d think they would almost have to have Kaman’s salary back in a trade.
So I only see one scenario in which this could make sense – If ORL specifically tells Olshey, we want a trade that includes picks and young assets and as little payroll as possible.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
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