Good news... Clips waiting for NOH demands to lower
What we've all been saying. Billups means the Hornets have even less leverage. With Odom in Dallas, who else is gonna offer a similar package, considering Paul won't agree to stay anywhere. Im hoping this means Gordon will not be traded. Im still OK with a package of Kaman/Aminu/Bledsoe/Minny pick... but it may take even less than that
5 months ago
DocD
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It won't take less than that
That’s for certain. In the Hornets defense, anything less would be ridiculously lopsided. I could see why Gordon is a must for the Hornets. A package of Kaman, Aminu, Bledsoe and the Minny pick should suffice but Aminu and Bledose are far from sure things and who knows if they’d even be good bench players.
Throw in another future first rounder.
by dulciusXasperis on Dec 13, 2011 12:45 PM PST reply actions
very good article
i wish neil would outright come out and say gordon will not be involved in a paul trade
even if he was considered before, there’s no reason with where the hornets are and where the clips are to consider it now.
"there’s no reason with where the hornets are and where the clips are to consider it now"
Except for possibly someday winning a championship.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Um, that's what they are trying to do
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not hard enough if they let this opportunity pass them by
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Right, no matter the cost . . .
This is the only opportunity that the Clips will ever have . . . Come on. Their cap space and moves helped to create the opportunity in the first place.
Have a little faith.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Been having faith for 33 years
And this IS the only opportunity they’ve EVER had. When you get the chance you go for it. Fortune favors the bold.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
No it's not - they just didn't take advantage of other opportunities
And they would had alot more had they better management.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And which opportunities were those?
Yeah, yeah, we get it. Neil Olshey, by virtue of not being Mike Dunleavy, walks on water. It’s clear you’re more interested in proving yourself right (and your nemesis wrong) than actually debating this thing honestly, so whatever, you win.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Um, I don't need to prove myself right - I'm just happy that I was
I love the Clippers
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Except here's the thing
We don’t yet know if you were or weren’t. Chauncey may not come, or may be a disgruntled attitude problem when he gets here. Butler could play 25 games. DJ’s ridiculous contract could become an albatross. They could find themselves in 8 seed purgatory, causing EJ and Blake to bail.
The final chapter hasn’t been written, but you’re strutting around like you’re some sort of genius. We get it, you like Olshey. So far I do too. But I’d like him more if he didn’t stick to the safe route and tried to do something really bold that has a chance — just a chance, mind you, but a chance — to lead to true greatness.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Here's why this is good
They are acting like a legitimate NBA team that wants to build and win. They signed two good vets (one of whom chose us over the Spurs and the Nets witha much higher offer).
They matched for their young center. You might say it’s an albatross, that’s up for debate. Funny you’re so worried about that but not gutting the team for CP3. Pretty clear it ain’t something that the old regime would have done.
I didn’t say I like Olshey and I’m not strutting. I’m just happy with where we seem to be and where we seem to be going.
I want CP3 too, believe me. We just differ about how to get there. He’s playing hardball in negotiations now – which is ballsy, not meek. i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Again, disingenuous arguing
I didn’t say DJ’s contract was an albatross. I said, exceptionally clearly, that the contract could turn out bad. I also said I like all of his moves so far, so you don’t have to explain them to me. I get it. But that doesn’t mean that they’ll turn out to be good moves in the end.
I’ve also said, plenty of times, that I like that he’s playing hardball now. But it’s only a good strategy if he pulls it off. If ultimately Stern doesn’t cave, and Olshey walks away without landing Paul, that would be taking the safe route, and would in my opinion be a complete failure.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
you're right - we can't now anything with absolute certainty
We just have to evaluate the personnel and the moves they make, or don’t make. I appreciate your ultimate opinion, I (and many others, including Simmons) just think you’re dead wrong.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
“Given permission by the Hornets to speak with Paul, Clippers officials had a recent phone conversation with the All-Star point guard in which he expressed excitement about the possibility of playing with Gordon and the potential of the Timberwolves’ unprotected 2012 first-round draft pick, league sources said.”
that is the line i like best. 7 months and the clippers can just sign him outright….
a lineup of chris paul, eric gordon, caron butler / harrison barnes, blake griffin , deandre jordan…
with a bench of willie warren, bledsoe, aminu, trey tompkins, leslie , gomes with 1 year left, and ANYONE wanting to chase a title and mo williams could be ok.
I don't feel confident about our chances in FA.
If we’re serious about getting him, what we’re doing now is the best route. Force the NBA to accept our reasonable offer, and then he can play with us for the next two years and we can show him we’re for real.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
this
Except what if the NBA decides to just hold on to him if we don’t include EJ? If they call our bluff, at some point we have to fold, right? Otherwise you’re choosing Gordon over Paul, which is an epic fail.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
They can't call our bluff, really.
The CP3 drama would simply continue all the way up until the trade deadline. Stern has already put most of his reputation through the shredder, that would just seal the deal.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Actually they can
There’s a lot of speculation that they don’t really want to move him, and will only do so if blown away. I’d rather blow then away then let Paul hit the open market. The “no leverage” thing would apply if we were dealing with a regular TEAM. But in this scenario, who the hell knows what the LEAGUE really wants out of this.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
The thing is that we aren't bluffing
That’s the beauty of Chauncy. And we are not choosing EJ over CP3. We are choosing not to overspend for a two year rental to ensure that our team continues to get better.
You should go read the Simmons article.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I read Simmons religiously
Doesn’t mean I always agree with him. And in this case what he’s saying is not so black-and-white. I’m sure you mean this part of it:
Why should they have to give up Eric Gordon? You only trade for Paul if you want to contend; giving up the league’s best under-30 shooting guard (Gordon) defeats the purpose of acquiring Paul in the first place. Wouldn’t the Clippers contend immediately with Griffin, Paul, Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, Mo Williams, Caron Butler, Randy Foye and Chauncey Billups?7 If it doesn’t work out, no biggie — the 2011-12 Clips would still be a playoff team with tradeable assets to boot, and it’s not like anyone else is acquiring Paul. If I were running the Clips, I wouldn’t let Stern and his henchmen break me.But my opinion has more to do with this part:
Maybe Sterling cares only about what he’s getting (the best point guard alive) and not what he’d be giving up (promise, hope, potential, Ping-Pong balls … basically, all the crap he’s been selling to Clipper fans these past 30 years).Maybe Sterling cares only about keeping Griffin two years from now. Maybe he thinks Paul’s presence will sway Griffin toward signing a lucrative extension next summer. Maybe he’s only thinking, “Give me one of the most electric pairings in NBA history right now and we can figure out everything later.” Maybe Stern is banking on this.
Maybe he envisions Sterling getting seduced by that one Zihuatanejo-esque moment in the distance: Paul dribbling 30 feet from the hoop in the last minute of a tight Lakers game, Griffin catching his eye, and suddenly, Griffin charging toward the basket as Paul lofts a pass toward the rim. The pass will be perfect, and only because Paul plays point guard about as perfectly as anyone ever played the position. Griffin will take care of the rest. Clipper fans will leap up and down, slap palms, scream incoherently toward the ceiling. The Lakers will call timeout and slink back to their bench. Griffin and Paul will point at each other, smile, laugh, and slap hands, the league’s most electric new duo, the hottest ticket in town.
And when that sequence happens, believe me … nobody will care that the Clippers gutted their future to rent Chris Paul for 19 months, or that the league disgraced itself to get there.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
So your opinion has to do with Simmons' ultimate opinion that
if the Clippers go along with Stern they will have “gutted their future to rent Chris Paul for 19 months . . .”
You see, Simmons disagrees with you and his opinion is pretty similar to mine if we are basing it on having to trade both EJ and the Minny pick.
Apparently you hold the same views but don’t know it. ;-)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Kinda funny that you got seduced by his writeup just like he thinks Sterling would get seduced
Not surprising, really, but Simmons is urging us here to be careful not to gut the franchise – my concern exactly.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Reading comprehension much?
Jeez it’s like talking to a brick wall. John R. in a funhouse mirror.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
What are you talking about?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Seriously - Bush League to call me out for "reading comprehension"
when it was you who misunderstood the article
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If we win a crapload of games with Chauncey
Then Chauncey leaves, Paul may feel that he can slot right in and take another big leap. But we need to win at least 50 games with Chauncey before I have any confidence that Paul would do this.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I mean I'll take 50-16........
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
haha that’s what i figured. I mean, I wouldn’t mind going 50-16 either.
The main point is that if we don’t trade for CP3 this year, we’ll be a very good, deep, young team going into next year with the cap space to sign CP3. If CP3 signs elsewhere, we can go after Deron. If he goes elsewhere, we can resign Chauncey, use the Minny pick to trade for a PG or go with Mo and Bledsoe and draft Barnes/Drummond/Davis etc. We have a lot of options with a ton of flexibility. The future is bright.
If he makes it to free-agency, there's not really a better option than us.
Right now, who knows what it will take for the NBA to actually approve a trade? I personally wouldn’t be in a rush to get a deal done. Paul is not a dummy. The fact that he says he would like to play with Gordon and the pick means that he’d have to consider signing with us a free-agent. We don’t have the assets to acquire him without parting with one of the 2.
Next summer, the Knicks are not going to have the necessary cap space and neither will the Lakers . He doesn’t want to be a Celtic. The Magic don’t look like a good option with their current salary situation.
I know everybody got excited about him saying that he would opt in for the last season of his deal. That would be even worse for us than him opting out this summer. Teams like the Magic and the Lakers would both be in the position to sign him. Other teams would be given more time to free up cap space and make the necessary moves to position themselves to be players in the 2013 free-agency.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Dec 13, 2011 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
That's the same wishful thinking that led to the Lebron delusions
Once he hits the open market all bets are off. You really think the Nets or Lakers can’t find a way to shed salary of pull off a sign-and-trade?
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
The Nets have Deron Williams and aren't even really a threat for him.
Sure, the Lakers may be able to come up with something if they are willing to give up Bynum. Those are “ifs” too.
The fact of the the matter is that people want to trade for Paul now and let him opt in for the rest of his contract. The Lakers will have 4 players under contract in the summer of 2013 when Paul would be a free-agent. They would be able to amnesty Pau or trade him in a salary dump to free up cap space. Paul could easily just walk down the hall and join the Lakers. Orlando’s salary situation is wide open during the 2013-14 season. Only the Richardsons and Orton have guaranteed salary on the books. Another $6.5M for the partially guaranteed contracts of Turk and Duhon. They could re-sign Dwight and then Chris could just spurn the Clippers and take his talents to Disney World.
Would you rather have him for 2 years and just leave as opposed to taking a risk that is currently more in our favor? There is a risk no matter what happens. I’d rather keep what we have and try to lure him here long-term in 2012 when there is less competition for his services in play.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Dec 13, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Yes and no
Would you rather have him for 2 years and just leave as opposed to taking a risk that is currently more in our favor?
Of course I wouldn’t want him to leave in 2 years. But I don’t agree with your opinion of which is the bigger risk. I believe that 2 years of playing and winning with Blake, combined with our ability to pay him $30MM more than anyone else could, will convince him to stay. Or at least I believe that the odds of that are better than the odds of him choosing us over all other potential suitors next offseason.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
That's fair, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
I see teams/situations that have actually been linked to him (i.e. Lakers & Magic) being in the position to sign him outright 2 years from now. What is he giving us? 2 years. Why can’t he just opt out at the end of this season and re-up for 5 years if he wants to be here so bad? I’d rather him say that he may opt out at the end of this season to sign a new contract with us, but at worst he’d opt in to the last year of his deal. The reports in the past were that he couldn’t commit to promising that he would re-sign.
After watching what happened with James, Wade and Bosh, I’m not going to turn a blind eye to players agreeing to deals that sync up with the situations of other teams’ cap space. We could hope that he likes it here, but if things don’t go so smoothly, then you better believe he is going to be weighing his other options.
Due to that uncertainty, I’d rather keep 2 of our top 3 assets and try to sign him long-term sooner than removing those assets and hoping that he’ll sign long term 2 years from now.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Dec 13, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough
And a very smart take that I haven’t seen from anyone else and obviously hadn’t considered. Agree to disagree it is.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
um, that take is basically what everyone else has been saying
I don’t trust CP3 in this situation as I’ve said
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Good Lord, are you completely off your meds?
You have to try to take credit for Lawler 4ever’s work here? Really? Really?
I would ask you to show me exactly where you posted that stuff about who the Lakers and Magic would and wouldn’t have on their books 2 seasons from now, and exactly how CP3’s two-year commitment syncs up exactly with the contract situations of those teams … but I’m afraid you’d actually try to respond. This response is utterly, laughably, frighteningly pathetic. You really need help.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
There are like 20 people who have said that
we don’t trust that he will sign with us later. Lawler provided some additional reasons for that, but come on bolts – you’re pretty close to being alone out here on this one.
Not that there’s anything wrong with it – Christ last year I was pretty much alone for months suggesting patience. But lame to start going to the personal denigration card. I respect your opinions, you should consider doing the same. After all we are all Clippers fans and are looking forward to a great season.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wow. Just wow.
Anyone can say “I don’t trust that he’ll sign with us later.” Hell, I’ve said that I don’t necessarily trust that he’ll sign with us later. I gave Lawler props for backing his argument with facts and plausible scenarios, and then you had to jump in with your usual look-at-me-look-at-me-aren’t-I-pretty? bullshit.
I was talking to him, not to you. And I was complimenting him for coming up with some original ideas. What on earth did that have to do with you? If you want similar compliments, then please come up with an original thought of your own. Until then, please go away.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Ok bolts, I think this has run its course - enjoy
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
And PS, oops
I meant Knicks, not Nets. Brain fart.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Um, we are in a different position now than we were last summer
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I agree it's a better situation
And it’s a tough thing to wonder… pretty good chance at 5 years of CP3 with no givebacks, or guaranteed 2 years of CP3 with a ton of givebacks and (I think) a much better chance at re-signing him for an additional 4 or 5.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Yep, not an easy choice to make
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yes
I even share this wishful thinking… but there’s an old saying in Tennessee, well I know it’s in Texas, it’s probably in Tennessee. It says, ‘fool me once, shame on… shame on you…………. ya fool me, can’t get fooled again.’
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I think that only works if CP3 goes FA and somehow chooses the Clips over the Knicks or Lakers or whoever.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
i don't see why he doesnt choose us over those two teams
neither of those teams have enough money…
would CP3 really take the vet’s minimum to be with either of those teams? he’s not that stupid
the Clips are the ONLY team that he likes AND has money
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
Yes, they can
And if Paul wants to go to NY, and the Hornets’ new owner is faced with a “do a sign-and-trade and get back Amare or don’t do the sign-and-trade and get nothing” situation, they’ll do the sign-and-trade.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
This is thin ice, though
I’m just not comfortable trying to predict what will happen next summer. Or at least, I wouldn’t bet any money on it, if you asked me today. If we signed CP3 and wanted him to re-sign, then you have a different story. But that story costs us Minny or EJ (or both according to ESPN’s idiots).
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Not just them - bolts would do that deal as well
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well
I meant more that it’s just idiotic by the ESPN writers because it’s so hugely unlikely Clips management would give both since they have so much more leverage. Not saying it’s idiotic to make that deal if you have to (it’s pretty close to a wash), but just that it’s idiotic to make the deal if you don’t have to. ESPN thinks we should make the deal even though we don’t have to.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
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