Chris Kaman - The Paradox of the Expiring Contract
Over the summer, SBNation had a series of meetings in Las Vegas. It was the first time the company had done this sort of thing, and since it was a pretty easy trip for me, I drove out to the desert. (As an aside, I drove out with Chris Clark of Silver Screen and Roll, and the joke in Vegas was that we should have a buddy sitcom - "He's a Lakers' blogger; he's a Clippers blogger! Hilarity ensues, Tuesdays this Fall!")
There were about a dozen NBA bloggers in attendance at the conference, and of course we were in the throes of the lockout. The best part of the experience was definitely just sitting around talking basketball face-to-face with such a knowledgeable group of people.
Over dinner one night, the rumored trade of Chris Kaman for Andre Iguodala came up, and Michael Levin of the 76ers blog Liberty Ballers was among the hoop heads at the table. As the conversation progressed, I realized something very interesting was happening: to many at the table, and these are smart guys, Kaman was just an expiring contract. The fact that he might also be a very good player was immaterial to some regarding a trade discussion. In fact, Levin among others even posited that Kaman's effectiveness as a player might even drive down his value as a trade chip! WHAT?
The logic, such as it is, goes something like this: an expiring contract has value in a trade for exactly what it is - money that will come off your books in short order, and nothing else. A good basketball player has value as a good basketball player. And the two are essentially at cross purposes. If a team is looking to dump salary, it implies that they are in rebuilding mode, looking to get far enough under the cap to be able to pursue free agents at some future date. Another large part of the strategy is also to rebuild through the draft, and you want the best possible draft picks you can get. So if you ship out a player like Iguodala in a trade to save money, you might want picks and/or young prospects back - but the salary relief you take back in the deal should be nothing more than filler. If you take back a player in that situation that actually helps you win basketball games, it's a bad thing for the rebuilding process.
I won't get into the "moral hazard" of the draft or the implications of preemptively tanking a season in this manner. (Don't the fans deserve to see some wins during any season they buy tickets?) The Oklahoma City model is the template for rebuilding at this point, and they got Durant and Westbrook and Harden by being really, really bad three straight seasons (which is how the Clippers got Gordon, Griffin and Aminu as well, by the way) - so it's not hard to see why teams might want to do this. And if you're in that situation, you might indeed want to play some rookie center that might or might not amount to anything ahead of a 29 year old Chris Kaman who's headed into free agency, even (or especially) if Kaman is going to help you win more games.
The irony here is that while Kaman is to some "just" an expiring contract right now, when you look at the contracts signed by Tyson Chandler, Nene, Marc Gasol and DeAndre Jordan this week, it's obvious that Kaman will be a highly sought after free agent next July. If he has a relatively healthy season and plays at anything close to the level he was at in 2010 or 2008, he should certainly be worth more than Jordan, right?
It's true that in the final year of his contract, like Chris Paul, he has less trade value as a player if you have no confidence that you can keep him. So that's another reason to view him as "just" salary relief. But that doesn't mean he couldn't help you win games now.
This paradox became even clearer to me today when I was looking at the proposed three team trade for Dwight Howard. Who knows whether there's anything to it, but the deal has Orlando getting Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace and (maybe) a first round pick, while losing Howard and Hedo Turkoglu. Now, I won't get into how that trade package compares to the proposed Chris Paul deals, except to say that if the NBA owned the Magic David Stern wouldn't be able to say "No" fast enough. But then I thought about the general idea of Brook Lopez as the centerpiece of a trade for Dwight Howard.
I ask you: is Brook Lopez any better than Chris Kaman? He's younger, I get that. And he's cheaper - today. But Lopez is going to be a restricted free agent after this season, which means that compared to Kaman you'd save $10M this year, but he'll no doubt be making more than Kaman for four or five years after that.
Looking at Lopez' last season compared to Kaman's last non-injury season in 09-10, the two are pretty similar. (If you are viewing this post in narrow view, some data may get cut off; switch to wide view and you can scroll left and right to see it if need be).
Totals
| Rk | Player | Season | Age | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Chris Kaman | 2009-10 | 27 | 76 | 76 | 2608 | 589 | 1202 | .490 | 0 | 6 | .000 | 230 | 307 | .749 | 184 | 520 | 704 | 120 | 37 | 94 | 223 | 213 | 1408 |
| 2 | Brook Lopez | 2010-11 | 22 | 82 | 82 | 2889 | 644 | 1309 | .492 | 0 | 1 | .000 | 385 | 489 | .787 | 197 | 291 | 488 | 129 | 47 | 120 | 176 | 240 | 1673 |
Per Game
| Rk | Player | Season | Age | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Chris Kaman | 2009-10 | 27 | 76 | 76 | 34.3 | 7.8 | 15.8 | .490 | 0.0 | 0.1 | .000 | 3.0 | 4.0 | .749 | 2.4 | 6.8 | 9.3 | 1.6 | 0.5 | 1.2 | 2.9 | 2.8 | 18.5 |
| 2 | Brook Lopez | 2010-11 | 22 | 82 | 82 | 35.2 | 7.9 | 16.0 | .492 | 0.0 | 0.0 | .000 | 4.7 | 6.0 | .787 | 2.4 | 3.5 | 6.0 | 1.6 | 0.6 | 1.5 | 2.1 | 2.9 | 20.4 |
Per 36 Minutes
| Rk | Player | Season | Age | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Chris Kaman | 2009-10 | 27 | 76 | 76 | 2608 | 8.1 | 16.6 | .490 | 0.0 | 0.1 | .000 | 3.2 | 4.2 | .749 | 2.5 | 7.2 | 9.7 | 1.7 | 0.5 | 1.3 | 3.1 | 2.9 | 19.4 |
| 2 | Brook Lopez | 2010-11 | 22 | 82 | 82 | 2889 | 8.0 | 16.3 | .492 | 0.0 | 0.0 | .000 | 4.8 | 6.1 | .787 | 2.5 | 3.6 | 6.1 | 1.6 | 0.6 | 1.5 | 2.2 | 3.0 | 20.8 |
Advanced
| Rk | Player | Season | Age | G | MP | PER | TS% | eFG% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | ORtg | DRtg | OWS | DWS | WS | WS/48 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Chris Kaman | 2009-10 | 27 | 76 | 2608 | 16.5 | .527 | .490 | 8.1 | 23.2 | 15.6 | 8.6 | 0.7 | 2.7 | 14.3 | 27.1 | 99 | 109 | 0.0 | 2.4 | 2.4 | .044 |
| 2 | Brook Lopez | 2010-11 | 22 | 82 | 2889 | 19.3 | .549 | .492 | 7.8 | 12.3 | 10.0 | 8.8 | 0.9 | 3.2 | 10.4 | 27.3 | 108 | 110 | 4.4 | 1.9 | 6.3 | .105 |
Offensively, the two are eerily similar. Per 36 minutes, Kaman took 16.6 shots, Lopez 16.3; Kaman made 49% of his, Lopez 49.2%. Lopez gets to the line more often than Kaman, which makes him the slightly better offensive player both in points scored and in efficiency. But neither is particularly efficient for a center.
The numbers are pretty similar in a lot of other areas as well, like blocked shots and steals and assists and offensive rebounds. Kaman turns the ball over more, which isn't a surprise to us.
But look at the defensive rebounding! Kaman got twice as many defensive rebounds per minute as Lopez! Twice as many! I don't know about you, but I like my center to get some rebounds, and looking at these stats, I'd be tempted to call Kaman better than Lopez. (Interesting that both PER and WS/48 rate Lopez quite a bit higher - looking at the raw numbers, I'm hard pressed to understand why. Lopez' only significant advantages are in free throws and turnovers, and I would think that the massive difference in rebounding would more than make up for it. This illustrates one of the issues with single number stats - the weighting they use may or may not be the weighting that makes intuitive sense to any one individual.)
I understand that there are massive differences between Chris Kaman and Brook Lopez as trade pieces today. Kaman is 29, Lopez is 23. Lopez makes about $10M less than Kaman this year, even though that gap will be erased this summer, and Lopez will probably end up making more. Most importantly in a trade discussion, Kaman will be an UNrestricted free agent next summer while Lopez will be restricted. You can't view Kaman as a long term asset in any trade, as there's no guarantee that you'll be able to keep him (even if you'll have an advantage with his Bird rights).
So yeah, no one is going to take Chris Kaman back as the centerpiece in a trade. But still, isn't he more than just an expiring contract?
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I think Kaman's real destination (even if traded to NOH) will be a two a playoff bound team
Teams that want him for “basketball reasons”…like the Spurs or 76ers…
Very Interesting Perspective regarding the whole Kaman contract/skill level
Always fun to read things that are outside the box thinking. Augments to why NO should make the trade with us.
NO would get a couple of talented young players in Bledsoe and AFA, salary cap relief in Kaman’s expiring, a likely high pick in a strong draft, 1-2 late picks for some depth, and Mo who isn’t tied to a long term deal which prospective owners should like. It also makes them suck enough in the short term that they get a high pick themselves in this deep draft.
Newbie
Well, another way to suck
Is to just keep their roster empty..
he looks like a totally different guy
scary, but i just might have to draft him as a sleeper this weekend…
well I don't know how much it will help him
he is really a heavy weight slugger, how will the weight loss effect his playing style?
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Easier on his legs...
Remember when Brand showed up twenty pounds lighter? Didn’t affect his game at all. I don’t think the extra weight has much to do with his strength. Dude’s strong/good footwork.
no I don't remember, only have been following the NBA for a year
but Elton is more of a skilled player, whilst Perkins needs to grind it out against the Dwights and Bynums of this world. Weight might matter a bit. I don’t really, outside the obvious health issues, how it would improve his playing style.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Elton was/is sort of skilled...
He really defines the term “grinder”. He had/has an effective little ten foot shot which was very effective as a Clipper.
I don’t feel qualified to assess Perkin’s game. I suppose the lost weight might make him easier to move off the block, but I doubt it.
don't get me wrong, losing weight will be good thing for him
but it matters more for some players then others.
Anyway, I think he is overrated. He main strength seems to be his man-to-man defence against other centers. But other then DH and Bynum, not many dominant centers left in this league.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
haha, since he looks shorter in the pic on the right
All i keep thinking is Captian America
"..We have the talent and capabilities so why not go for it?" BJ Raji
by AcmePacker21 on Dec 14, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
So I guess...
that Thunder are going to run more, because this guy looks fit!
"The Milkshake" & DJ dunking on people.
by Peter B. Lap on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Per Adrian Woj's Twitter 11:19 am pst
Orlando has ended trade talks for Dwight Howard, league sources tell Y! Sports.
Newbie
I really don't see Dwight being moved
until the deadline. Or maybe more importantly… The all-star game…..in Orlando.
Which now means
Lakers will probably go after Chris Paul full force. No more distractions.
by lovinglosangeles on Dec 14, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Career Comprison
Lopez has a WS/48 of .114
Kaman has a WS/48 of .060
.100 is about the league average
Lopez has a PER of 19.1
Kaman has a PER of 14.1
Lopez has an ORtg of 110
Kaman has an ORtg of 98
The major reason for Lopez having higher numbers in the above categories is due to the big difference is due TS% and USG%
TS%
Lopez .561
Kaman .528 – Which by the way is horrible for a Center
USG%
Lopez .239
Kaman .206
PER...
Unfortunately it’s becoming THE single number statistic. But it might be just because it’s so easy to find.
Of course B-ref also shows us Win Shares. But Kaman’s OWS is 0.0? He contributed zero wins in 2010? Huh? (DeAndre Jordan contributed 2.2 last year with a PER under 15.) I don’t get it.
We're not talking about last season
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
kamans basketball skills would only be coveted by a few teams
houston, dallas (maybe not anymore with the aquisition of odom) and boston seem to be the most logical suitors. maybe minnesota since they’re looking for a legit center to pair with love, though a 30 year old injury prone center probably isn’t their ideal choice. if we still try to trade for paul, we should try to use houston as a third team facilitator much like the lakers tried to do. they could add in any combination of young assests or picks and could also absorb contracts(they have NY’s 1st rounder next year as well as their own). then again, we could easily just hold onto him for depth purposes. we have plenty of option right now, which is why i’m not a fan or trading everything for a one-legged chris paul..
Just from looking at trade topics on other boards, you can tell that he's not given much respect.
One would initially think that Kaman ought to be a player that is in a pretty nice demand. Teams looking to trim down salary should be interested, just as he would be intriguing to teams that are making a playoff/title run.
The problem right now is that Kaman is cake that you want to have and eat too. He can’t be looked at as just salary relief, because he’s better than that and a team may want to keep him beyond the length of his current contract. A team that is looking to make a playoff/title run is not going to give up a whole lot, because it defeats the purpose. That puts us in an odd predicament where we’re frustrated that his interest on the market isn’t as high as we believe it should be.
As you said, there will likely be a lot of teams looking to add him next summer. I think Kaman would be best off on one of the Texas teams or in Detroit. I do wonder what his next contract situation will be. Is he going to go for the money or does he go for the hardware. Cuban is trying to free up money for Howard and Williams, but he could re-unite Dirk and Kaman if the other free-agents end up elsewhere.
Proud member of Club FTR
Then, ignoring the idea of a Chris Paul trade...
Clips should keep Kaman. He’s worth more on the floor than he is a trade piece.
I know Steve believes Kaman can work well with Blake on the floor. I’m not so sure.
If he's healthy, he can be an on-court asset to us.
I don’t know how well he’s going to work with Blake. They have not had much of an opportunity together. Playing styles would allude to them being complements, but we’ll have to see that after they establish some chemistry. I think they both currently play better alongside DJ than they do each other.
I could see him being on the team through the season if push comes to shove, but we still want to get something in return for him if he’s going to leave.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Dec 14, 2011 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
Agree with all that...
I keep thinking about how well Kaman worked next to Brand. His rebounds were higher, point totals lower, his defense was generally excellent. THAT Kaman probably plays well next to Blake.
Here's my point though
He’ll get paid in summer 2012. He’s a highly skilled 7 footer.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I agree. Especially, if he stays healthy this year (it is that odd year of increased production for him).
How much do you see him getting?
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Dec 14, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
A lot will depend on this season
If he’s able to show that he still is capable of near 09-10 production, then he’ll get paid. If he has a 2nd-straight injured and/or unproductive year, he may have to settle for a Kwame-like deal or worse. Some speculation suggested he’ll demand a trade for this very reason: can’t showcase himself well enough as DJ’s backup. (Not sure I buy that last part, but did see if from some semi-reputable source.)
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Missed bunnies? Or that he's fancies himself a part time small forward?
Look at Kaman’s stats when he played next to Elton Brand in 2005-06. His TS% is .570. I’d like to see him go back to the simple things. Don’t dribble, go up with both hands, play great man-defense. He’s certainly capable of those things. Perhaps it’s the coaching.
2010-2011
During the 8 games he played in Nov.-Dec., Kaman was 40 for 110, 36%. After he returned in Feb, he shot 137 for 256, 52%. Kaman’s TS% will never be great, because he takes mid range jumpers and doesn’t get to the line. But an 8 game slump at the beginning of last season had a huge impact since he missed so many games.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
D12 staying in Orlando
Per Adrian Woj
Y! Sources: The Orlando Magic end trade discussions for Dwight Howard, plan to start the season with him in the lineup.
Newbie
Well then again
Orlando is better than New Jersey.
by lovinglosangeles on Dec 14, 2011 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
My Biggest Problem With Kaman
and I have watched hundreds of Clippers games with him playing is that he has this awful tendency to disappear in the 4th quarter, especially in the last five minutes of the game.
Does anyone remember the last time Kaman made a game winning shot? Help me out this. He must have a few in his career.
we got some options on this team to do that
Kaman is a solid contributer if healthy, especially if not called upon to do things he doesn’t well.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Other "Better" Options
If the guy could deliver in the 4th quarter late he would get a chance to do it.
Hell in Toronto Amir Johnson who averaged under 10 PPG was the Raptors go to guy late in games with the score close. There were not a lot of them but Johnson delivered twice, once beating the Celtics and the other time beating the Thunder.
If you can do it your team will give you the chance to.
so? You also need guys to do the dirty work the first 3 quarters
seeing Kaman’s skill set and position he just isn’t really suited as a closer.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
never
I remember once he had a 12 footer to beat the Hawks at the buzzer, and he shot it 9 feet. Fourth quarter is not his time. But that’s OK. Not like you’re going to Dwight Howard for the game winner either. That’s the nature of centers.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
It's Not That He Just Misses Shots In The Fourth Quarter
1. He has a tremendous amount of difficulty handing the double team late in games.
2. He makes a lot of, IMO dumb decisions on offense late in games when he has the ball including too many turnovers.
If you can’t cut it when the game is on the line what good are you?
The game is not 36 minutes long.
he also does these things in the 3 other quarters
I didn’t say he doesn’t has his flaws. But he also has his strengths. The trick is to build your team and adapt your game plan so that the team has a decent mix. Kaman rebounding and defence and decent FT% make him valuable in the 4th quarter whilst his turnovers will hurt the team. Well with the depth we have now, we don’t need to feed the ball to Kaman in the 4th unless he is an ideal situation.
Unless DJ suddenly ups his FT% with 20%, Kaman will be playing at the end of the game.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Unless DJ suddenly ups his FT% with 20%, Kaman will be playing at the end of the game.
To the extent the opportunities present themselves ISTM that If VDN were smart he would do the offense – defense thingy with the two in the last one to two minutes of very close games
use DJ offensively?
and Kaman defensively? At this time Kaman is the better all rounder defender.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
And
Kaman is offensively much better than DJ.
by lovinglosangeles on Dec 14, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
We get it...
We get it. You hate Kaman and you hate Tayshaun Prince.
Prince just re-signed for 4/$30M. How much do you think Kaman will get offered in free agency next summer? Do you think it’s possible that while you hate Kaman, some other people might not?
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
How about when he has two defenders on him and everyone else on the Clippers team is open and decides to shoot the basket anyway? That drives me nuts.
by lovinglosangeles on Dec 14, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
the guy did really refined his game and became a legit NBA center
but his basket IQ does seem a bit low.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
He does not fit in the new VDN system
With all the new young players in the Clippers, Kman became outdated, he can not keep up the speed and the quickness of the new young guns. He runs well under MDSR’s half court system when Brand is the first option and Kman is the 2nd option 10-15’ are where these two make their $ shots. MDSR’s era lack of talent and rely on Cassel,Brand,Kaman where not much B ball IQ is required as Cassel runs the show. After that system broke apart,Kman was not able to adjust himself to the new run and gun and keep on injury himself trying to keep up the speed with the young guns. Why we overpay DJ? because he fit in the new Blake system, Power+Speed=run and Dunk!!!! If we can’t get ChrisPaul BigShot and Mo will have to be the two PG carry the torch fire and light up our two big Guns(cannons)
Kaman is still valuable
you need scoring from the bench and he can do that. Plus he is a decent rebounder, defender and has a decent FT%
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
kaman doesn't know his limitations
he was better when he focused on rebounding and defense. Nowadays he tries too hard to be a great scorer and although sometimes he’s on, the majority of the time he becomes al thornton-like with his shot selection. He works decently with the second unit because he can be the offensive focal point. Given that most of his shots last year were against weak second unit squads I would seriously doubt that his offensive game is even respectable at this point.
Another bad sign is that he came into camp out of shape. He doesn’t have the work ethic you want to see from a guy making the big bucks. It’s tough to let go of him for the depth he provides, but at this point with the franchise we need dependable options going into the future. Kaman isn’t sticking around and we need reserves we can bank on creating chemistry for the future. We have a high draft pick next year and should go for drummond.
wine um, dine um, 69 um
by flightofthegriffin on Dec 14, 2011 12:40 PM PST reply actions
let the Kaman bashing begin
my impression has always been that the guy always had a great work ethic. Reworking his game coming out of college has to have been a great work of labor considering he doesn’t seem blessed with any natural basket ball skills. He is just a lopsided player, skillwise, and not a good match for our team. But that doesn’t mean he is a bad player. and that he couldn’t become very valuable for another team.
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
but when your main priority is not your job?
Mo,Blake and the core players organized work out camp, and what Kman organized during the lock out?? hunting trip! killing deer and bucks why not polish up his footwork and keep in shape and try to hunt for Dunks when season starts?
so?
EJ was in Indian for most of the time? And then this lockout thingy.
Kaman has been a pro for quite some time. Not everyone does it the same way. The guy seems to get along with everyone just fine. He isn’t the bad influence you want him to be. Just a guy that will probably move on from the only team he has been on his whole NBA-career. He has been inconsistent and is sometimes maddening to see him play. But he is a legit center in a league where that is a scare commodity. If we didn’t have DJ we probably would like to keep him around. I mean, Kwame Brown get’s 7M this season….
by BelgianClipper on Dec 14, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Kwame?
Oh wow how did Kwame got into this comparison, Kaman is way ABOVE Kwame….we are talking about All Stars. Kaman WAS an All Star!! We are talking about how he should work his way back to an All Star!! not go down to a Kwame Brown Level, that will be SAD!
True, he's at his best when he's force-fed shots to get him going
and then needs to stay in rhythm (ie mucho minutes) to be effective. Effective for others but not us anymore.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Chauncey is on his way
This is good news….now it’s up to VDN and Neil to do their jobs!
http://twitter.com/sinbadbad
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
He should be in LA around this time
according to tweet
"The Milkshake" & DJ dunking on people.
by Peter B. Lap on Dec 14, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
sinbadbad sinbad
Just got on the plane from denver to LA and my man Chauncey Billups is on the plane. Time for some NBA action
3 hours ago
haha, i clicked the link
and it was….Sinbad?
"..We have the talent and capabilities so why not go for it?" BJ Raji
by AcmePacker21 on Dec 14, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
that's awesome haha
"..We have the talent and capabilities so why not go for it?" BJ Raji
by AcmePacker21 on Dec 14, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
or maybe he is Broussard's "source"
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Let today be the day...
one way or another. New orleans writer joe Garrity wrote on twitter, “I’m hearing from sources that there’s a good chance Chris Paul will be gone by the end of today. No guarantees.”
Don’t know how reliable he is, but I’m starting to get my hopes up again.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
What are you implying gdl
in regards to Ms. Fox??
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
If you're implying that you don't think she is a false hope for you
well then, a pat on the back to you you sir.
Newbie
Can't help but get my hopes up
Yesterday a New Orleans writer indicates the Hornets are no longer asking for Gordon, then the say Paul was excused from media day, and now another writer has indications he’ll be gone today. These guys are with them team, seems like they have a good idea whats going on. #hopeisagoodthing
Iggy
More than trading away needed depth for CP3 I would think the Clips would be pushing the Sixers harder for Iggy which has been rumored for the past year. Between Iggy Blake and EG the clips would have the best passing team in the league outside of PG.
Ball Chat - Episode 32 - Duncan Checks Out
The first to put the balls in the basket.
by Ball Chat on Dec 14, 2011 1:03 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
We don't need Iguodala now...
we signed Caron Butler. There is also the possibility that we get Trevor Ariza as well in a CP3 trade.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Caron Butler
You’re right, the Clippers signed Butler and so we are committed to him, but make no mistake about it. Iggy is a better player hands down.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
I guess the Clippers in that scenario
Could use A.I as a backup guard/SF that allows him plenty of minutes, another ball handler, and given the tough schedule , not a bad option.
Just don’t see the need to overkill it given the need then for big men after the trade
Backup to who?
Butler? You are kidding me right?
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
The Sixers
will not part with Iggy for Kaman…we all know this, however; add in a first rounder and they’ll bite. Personally, I think this is too steep a price. Iggy was never a genuine option for us, but he would be a great fit.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
If we are in strong playoff contention, Kaman is here til the end of the season..
If we are not in playoff contention, Kaman is gone to the highest bidder come playoff time.
This is all if he’s on the roster when the season starts. (All bets are off if he stinks it up, cuz then his “expiring contract value” is high.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Dec 14, 2011 1:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
If Kaman would accept the importance of his role as a backup
he could be a very important piece of the puzzle. He does not fit well with the new first team but could continue to be a scorer with the second group.
"I gotta have more cowbell!"
Kaman claims to be...
a professional and his actions so far have been consistent, therefore I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt; however, he has already went on record, implying that he would be displeased substituting for DJ. In either case, no way the Clippers keep him longer than this season, I think Kaman will come off the bench pessimistically, but his rationale will be, “I will be gone soon” so it all works out naturally.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
Golden State
What if the Lakers can somehow pry Curry and a first rounder from them for Pau and fillers? This would be quite the conundrum for New Orleans. Unlikely, but possible??
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
are u saying that the Lakers would then flip Curry to the Hornets?
well it wouldn’t work because they can’t trade a player they just traded for until a certain date….i’m assuming with this shortended season CP3 would be a FA by then
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
Good point
Are you absolutely certain this is the case? Remember the trade was vetoed.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
i think that would work in theory if part of some weird 3 team trade, pau has a big contract though
something like 17 mil i think, not sure how that would work with GS’s salary, on top of Monte Ellis, david lee, and that would move kwame browns 7 mil contract to the bench, not sure how much their gm would like that
Newbie
I put mu money on Kaman starting
…no current reason to believe otherwise. DJ will have to actually earn that spot….and he could very well do that. But as it stands now, Kaman is the incumbent starter
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Dec 14, 2011 2:19 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Then you will be strapped for cash
because Kaman will not start, for reasons I hope I don’t have to elaborate further. Hints: future, BFF, chemistry etc. etc. etc.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
not a good reason
Willie Warren played with Blake in college…should he start over Billups or Mo? nope.
IMO, if you put a gun to VDNs head and made him pick one, it would be Kaman. There’s no reason why he shouldn’t be….experience, skill, less liable on offense, passing.. HOWEVER…it is his spot to lose, and DJ is very close in taking it over
also if Kaman is going to get injured…play him early and get the most out of him BEFORE that happens
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
A very good reason indeed
Listen, the analogy of starting Warren over Billups? Are we paying Billups over 10 mil a season? Warren will be D-leaguer soon…absolutely no basis for this argument to be permitted in court or public opinion. Will VDN pick Kaman over DJ if faced at gunpoint? Perhaps, but you are taking things out of context here. Kaman has more skills, THAT’S NOT THE POINT, DJ fits the system better. Believe what you will.
"Where will the Clippers be without Sean Rooks" - The big red head
It's ridiculous to me that Lopez average 6 rebounds a game
Ludicrous, I tell you!
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
offensive rebounds are harder then defensive rebounds
and there probably isn’t too many opportunities for defensive rebounds if the other team keeps making baskets in front of the NJN defense
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
that point would be valid
but Kris Humphries averaged over 10 rebounds, 10.4 to be exact on New Jerseys team last year, B Lopez is just a plain bad rebounder
Newbie
Exactly and he went to Stanfurd
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Sorry, that makes no sense
New Jersey was bad but not completely awful (19th worst opponent FG%) and they were only outrebounded by one a game so the opportunities are there. Offensive is harder but that’s the same for everyone.
I mainly dislike him because he went to Stanfurd.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Look at DRB%
How many rebounds are available can have an impact, that is true, but Kaman’s DRB% is almost twice that of Lopez’ also. Lopez’ DRB% of 12.3% is barely better than what would be average for all 10 players on the court – guards, the other team, everyone. 10 players on the court, if rebounds were completely random, everyone would get 10% of them. But the tall players playing close to the basket on the defensive team really SHOULD be getting way more than their share. 12.3% is absurdly low – makes no sense, really.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Dec 14, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
Well
Unfortunately almost everyone seems to have missed my point.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Since Chris Paul is in the last year of his expiring contract
the fact that he is good makes him less valuable in the trade market with the whole paradox of an expiring contract concept?
Newbie

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