Bulls 114 - Clippers 101 - It's All About the Rotations
by Newton Pham on Dec 31, 2011 12:39 AM PST
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PrintAfter the trade for Chris Paul was announced, the hype machine went into overdrive. Suddenly, the Clippers were the talk of the league. They were finally "relevant." Journalists, analysts and fans let their imaginations go wild with thoughts of highlight reel passes from one of the games’ most electrifying point guards to its most explosive power forward. Add a former NBA Finals MVP and former All-Star coming off of a championship team (to be fair, he didn’t actually play in the championship games) to the mix and expectations were sent into orbit. It was going to be "Lob City" with the Clippers alley-ooping and dunking their way into the playoffs, many even predicting all the way to the Western Conference Finals. The Clippers became darlings of the league practically overnight and tickets sold out because everybody loves a winner…only the Clippers hadn’t even won anything yet. After losing to the Bulls 114 to 101 (boxscore), they still haven't won much.
Our visitors from the Windy City rolled through tonight and gave everyone a cold reminder of what we knew deep down inside, but didn’t want to admit: the Clippers aren’t ready yet. The media built them up and we bought in (many of us knowing better). The front office did a great job in acquiring quality players, but with a shortened training camp and very little time to practice, it wasn’t likely for the Clippers to come out of the gates screaming like a well oiled machine no matter how much talent they had.
Despite losing to the Spurs two days ago, visions of "Lob City" reappeared when the Clippers came out of the gates running in their home opener. Blake Griffin set the tone with an emphatic dunk on the first sequence and then followed it up with a series of post moves and a turnaround jumper. Mo (who started in place of Chauncey due to a strained groin) streaked down the court kicked it off and tucked into the corner where he knocked down a three pointer. All pistons were firing on offense, but a series of turnovers (including two three second violations and a traveling violation) kept the Bulls in the game and they eventually crept into a one point lead by the end of the first quarter. From that point on cracks in the Clipper armor started to chip.
As with the San Antonio game, the Clipper defense looked completely out of sync. Players were missing their rotations consistently and it was as if there was always a Bulls player open at all times of the game. The Bulls finished shooting 50% from the field and 41% from deep. In the fourth quarter they knocked down five of six three pointers to put the game away. After allowing the Spurs to shoot lights out, it appears to be a worrisome trend, however it isn’t something to sound the alarm over. With the minimal practice time, it’s expected and something that can be fixed with proper coaching and will get better as the players get used to playing with each other.
Speaking of rotations, Vinny Del Negro’s rotations were suspect at best. Players need their rest and it is hard to understand why Chris Paul and Blake Griffin played north of 40 minutes in the game. Griffin looked gassed by the end of the third and by choosing not to take Paul out in the middle of the third; the coach lost his opportunity and ended up having to play Paul the entire second half. Needless to say the lineup including Foye, Gomes and Cook in the third was atrocious and lead to an instant Bull’s run which nearly put the game out of reach.
Credit the Bulls for playing steady, shooting well, creating solid ball movement and playing stout defense (highest rated defense last year). Coach Thibodeau utilized solid substitution patterns, mixing in the bench with starters that complimented each other and at times employing defensive minded second unit when necessary. As Mike Smith and Ralph Lawler were saying, this team is built for the playoffs.
The Bulls came into the Staples Center off of a win over the Sacramento Kings. Derrick Rose was previously criticized for being too passive and trying too hard to be a facilitator in the prior Goldenstate game, but awoke and remembered who he was against the Kings and kept it up against Clippers. His tool set on full display; slashing through the defense, drop and stutter stepping his way to the basket and finishing with an array of layups and floaters. This doesn’t mean that he stopped facilitating; he just remembered what he was best at and used it to his advantage, attacking the paint, drawing in defenses and kicking it out to the open man.
Disregarding the inflated expectations, the Clippers actually played fairly well given the circumstances. They were without a significant contributor in Billups. The starters all scored in double figures and despite poor bench production, they actually shot better than the Bulls and finished with a field goal percentage above 51% and a three point percentage of nearly 47%. Keeping it in perspective, the Bulls are a contender who are fundamentally the same team as last year and thus needed little practice to get re-acclimated with one another. The Clippers never gave up and battled head to head until the Bulls pulled away at the finish. Last year, this would have been considered a moral victory. However, let’s be clear, there are no more "moral victories" for this team. Moral victories went away when the team traded away Eric Gordon, the Minnesota pick, Kaman and Aminu and went into "win now" mode.
Observations:
- Blake Griffin significantly increased his energy level this game. After two games with disappointing efforts, he came out playing hard on both ends of the court and looked like the Blake Griffin we were used to watching. Rebounding is typically regarded as a reflection of effort, in the previous two games he grabbed seven and nine rebounds, respectively. In tonight’s game he took down 13, right along his 2010-2011 average of 12.1. Even with all that energy, he seems to be settling for jumpshots. If he's going to take them, he needs to square up and shoot immediately. Too often he sets a pick, then steps out for the pop (instead of the roll) and then hesitates to shoot when he gets the ball.
- Mo Williams, despite starting today, looks like he will make an excellent sixth man if he embraces it. His uptempo style is ideal for a change of pace type guard looking to provide instant offense.
- DeAndre’s contract is looking good. When he was in the game, he protected the paint and his presence altered a significant amount of shots. On offense he is a strong finisher and takes pressure off of Griffin. It looks like he has a stronger connection with Chris Paul than Griffin does at this point, often being the benefactor of a Paul lob.
- However, as much as DeAndre shines when he is in the game, it becomes even more apparent how much the team needs a backup big man when DJ is out of the game (he sat out significant minutes this game due to foul trouble). Cook doesn't have the size to bang down low and often resorts to fouling (forcing us to view Noah's free throw shooting form more often than we would like). The Clippers needed a big man "like yesterday."
- Butler is looking like a solid signing, offering a steadying presence and producing exactly what is expected of him.
- Vinny Del Negro needs to grasp the concept of when to take a time out. He doesn’t take timeouts when other teams are going on runs and likes to take them when the Clippers are putting together runs, effectively sucking the wind out of it.
- To get the bulls perspective: Blog a Bull
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Something I noticed
Blake would set a pick for CP3, but would rarely make a roll after. He usually stays on top of the key and then go for an iso play once if he gets the ball which either leads to a jumpshot or driving into a big group of defenders. Not gonna complain since he scored over 30 points but I was hoping for more sweetly executed pick and roll plays with Chris Paul here.
Check out http://fullyclips.com/ - Really Great Clippers blog!
I think he got it later in the game and rolled hard after (which is why he got more dunks in traffic)
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by Newton Pham on Dec 31, 2011 12:48 AM PST up reply actions
I saw that too
I don’t know why, but it seems like Blake is settling for some outside shots. If anyone should take the outside shot, I would rather see CP3 or Butler take it.
I have the feeling Blake is trying to prove to everyone that his jump shot has improved. He shouldn’t care about that. Play to your strengths and that is going to the basket. If you get the open shot than take it, but don’t force it.
I like his offense, but he has both Pros AND Cons on offense.
Pros:
Strong Drive
Good Finisher
Strong Dribbles for a bigman
Powerful Spinmove
Cons:
His tendency to make EVERYTHING a fadeaway. Sometimes on pull up shots you even see him fade back! That is NOT helping anyone.
He often shoots one step too far back. The defender gives him space, but rather than taking that extra step, he just shoots it just within the 3 point line
He dribbles TOO much. No matter how good a dribbler you are, dribbling too much in the post/lane is just a bad idea
He needs to improve his non-dunk put backs. There are several opportunities he misses because he puts too much power in his tip ins.
+1
it does seem like blake is trying to prove he can hit the shots now. we would much rather see him do what we know he can do.
I think I am in the minority
I would rather have him establish that jumper so teams have to respect. But I will agree that he has to get rid of that habit of fading away on every jump shot.
Foye and Cook were awful
Trey needs to play ahead of Cook…wouldn’t have minded seeing Travis Leslie get some burn too.
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
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Foye had a nice three in the first half, in the second he sucked
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance" -Jean-Paul Sarte
Cook is horrible, BUT
Trey is absolutely not ready. I was at the game last night, and it was clear he had no clue what to do on the defensive end. CP3 had to show him where to stand when his man set a pick on Rose pretty much as the play was going on.
It’s very easy to imbue these rooks with magical powers since we haven’t really seen much of them and thus don’t know how bad they are. But after watching Trey up close and personal last night, I can tell you with absolute certainty that, right now, he is not an upgrade over Cook. Cook is taller, a better rebounder, at least knows where he’s supposed to be and what he’s supposed to do on defense. Of course, because he’s a complete stiff who moves like my 72-year-old mother-in-law, he can’t actually do the things he knows he’s supposed to do. But at least he knows them.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
by boltsfan21 on Dec 31, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He slaps pretty well.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on Dec 31, 2011 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
"...it's all about the memories..."
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Dec 31, 2011 1:01 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm the biggest pessimistic guy around, and I'm not too worried yet.
It takes time for teams to gel. Let’s keep in mind Miami started off last season 8-9, after putting together new players.
I had a feeling tonight’s game was going to turn out bad when the PA announcer said Chauncey Billups was starting as Mo Williams was running out. Embarrassing.
I've got nothing.
The PA announcer is new I believe
He also made several other mistakes thought the game
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance" -Jean-Paul Sarte
C'mon...give us a chance!!
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance" -Jean-Paul Sarte
I was at the game seating across the Clips bench
I really like Reggie Evans, I mean dude was active in the bench talking to our bigs and showing them, what I can only assume is boxing out techniques. Also, does anyone understand why Vinny called that timeout in the third, when we were down by one (71-72 I believe) we had all the momentum, the stadium was rocking, and he goes off and kills the momentum by calling a freaking timeout! Jesus Christ, Mary, and Joseph!!
Also, felt like CP3 is in love with the pick and pop. He had BG and Trey ready for the pick and roll and yeah it never came!
Could have been worst, we totally played better than the previous two games, had the Bulls at 40% fg in the first half, but they just kept going to the line. To me it appears we really don’t have a guard who can taken the rim and absorb contact like EJ!
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance" -Jean-Paul Sarte
Completely agree
Del Negro doesn’t have ANY idea on how to use his time outs! He seems to let the team play it out when they are letting the Bulls go on a run, and when they are on a nice run, HE CALLS A TIMEOUT. I understand he likes to conserve his TO’s, but at the end of the game, he was left with several and he really couldn’t use them. CP3 also needs to become a little more aggressive. I like how he wants to integrate all of the Clippers and I like how he is patient with plays, but a lot of times the shot clock goes down and he ends up giving one of his team mates a bad shot that I would much rather he took. (eh em – Foye’s random shots?).
Yeah I wrote about that timeout in the observations section
I was wondering the same thing…why take a timeout?!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Man I'm worried
we don’t need Blake Griffin to learn the grab and pull technique he used while he was on the Denver Nuggets. :(
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Good write up!
I enjoyed it. I was at the game and have a few thoughts:
1) Blake and CP3’s improving PnR – In game 1 we hardly saw an PnRs between Blake and CP3. Several people commented on how strange that was given nearly everyone’s expectation that VDN’s PnR heavy offense would focus on Blake and CP3. In game 2 we saw quite a few more PnRs between Blake and CP, but they were largely ineffective, almost always resulting in Blake wide open at the top of the key looking to pass it to someone else. Tonight we saw a heavy dose of the Blake/CP PnR and Blake seemed to pick his spots and roll hard to the bucket. It still wasn’t as consistent or effective as we would like to see, and Blake settled for that jumper too often, but I’m encouraged by the improvement from game to game. I really do expect to see a vastly improved Blake/CP PnR after about 15-20 games.
2) Zero improvement on defense – In contrast to the Blake/CP PnR, I’ve seen ZERO improvement in the defensive rotation. Against GSW, the gave up a ton of wide open looks and the Warriors uncharacteristically missed most of them. Against San Antonio, they again gave up a ton of wide open looks and the Spurs drained them all night long. Tonight, the Bulls again had all the looks they wanted. They missed them early but eventually started hitting. This team can’t rely on hoping that the opposing teams are off to win games.
3) Blake gets no respect from the refs – I’m sorry but the foul disparity early in the 4th was absurd. The Clips were in the penalty early while the Bulls had like 1 team foul. Blake was getting hacked regularly with no calls while Rose was getting any call he wanted.
4) Chemistry issues – I’m getting a little concerned with Mo Williams and Chauncey. Not together, but their cumulative effect on team chemistry. We all saw Mo complain about being taken out last time, and according to the LA Times Caron yelled at Mo to “pass the ball!” and the two had words tonight. Everyone has been so intent on appeasing Chauncey, that they’ve ignored Mo. This could be a ticking time bomb. I’m also not liking the effect everyone appeasing Chauncey has had on the team, CP3 in particular. Seems CP is a little too passive early because he’s so intent on letting Chauncey get his. The “I’m a point guard not a shooting guard” routine is getting a little old in my book. Not liking how this may effect the team all season.
5) For all the “we traded too much” folks, EJ is already hurt. Just thought I’d point that out.
Agree with most of your points!
1) Totally agree, the Pick N Roll is coming along slowly but steadily.
2) If anything, I saw EVEN worse defense, because it was horrendous how many WIDE OPEN shots they had.
3) Yes, Blake doesn’t have any respect from the refs, but does he deserve it? He is acting as if he is a long time super star, when in fact, he is a younger player who disrespects the refs every play. I agree that he is hacked quite often, however, the fact that you stare at the refs after every dunk is bad. To earn respect you gotta show respect.
4) I agree that we are too inclined to appease Chauncey. Yes, he wanted to become a Heat or Laker, but there is nothing, literally NOTHING we can do to help him anymore aside from cutting him (I don’t know if we can even do that!). I also don’t think Mo deserves to start because in all honesty, CP3 is THE BEST PG by far on the team, and Mo is not a 2. Sadly, I think that this IS a ticking time bomb and if someone has to go, it seems Mo is the only option seeing as we can’t trade Billups. The fact is, Mo may be a GREAT sixth man, but if he isn’t exactly happy at that spot, maybe we should look elsewhere. At the same time, I say that we let Chauncey throw a fit if we find a better 2. We are in it to win it, and from what it sounds like, Chauncey wanted that from the beginning. If that means he has to take a lesser role, I say we go for it. (Eh em, Bogans!!!)
Thanks madglove!
Great points as well…
…to be honest, I’m getting a bit concerned about the Chemistry issues as well. I keep telling myself it is only game three though. The two losses were to good teams as well.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I think the Chemistry issues will most likely arise in the PG/SG spot
Like Madglove said, we are trying to please Billups and forgetting about Williams, neither of which are true 2’s. I don’t know if you have gone through it, but to me, it is like when I try to be nice to an upset sibling. You try to appease him, but it is a lost cause. Honestly, I think Billups is simply unhappy as a Clipper and a SG because this is not where he wanted to be. Williams is just unhappy because we got 2 guards in front of him after he worked his butt off. But I would SURELY not start him or play him at 2. So I think we need a REAL SG.
how would the clips look with
Billips at the point, Gordon at the two, Caron as SF, Blake at the 4 and DJ at the 5? Mo and a true night on Osman off the bench.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
true big in kaman.
Not sure what happened lol
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Billups seems to be the weakest link
He is a tad old, and you would still have the issue with Mo not starting.. But that does look like a good lineup.
Great writeup
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I think that if this continues, Mo should be on the trading block and Bledsoe....
….can take Mo’s spot in the rotation. Bledsoe has a lot of upside and would want to be more of a team player. Foye needs to improve his shooting and his decision making. As far as the front court, they were without Kaman most of last year(he had a bad game last night for the Hornets) and they had Diogu who I thought played some good minutes for the team. Cook, aside from his streaky 3 point shooting, is no more than a liability and shouldn’t even be playing. Why not play Trey instead of Cook?
All I know
is I wish the Clips and Bulls could trade coaches.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
+1
Vinny was horrible last night, and all the Bulls fans around me at the game were making knowing comments, as if they’d seen this movie before. I really hope Olshey sees what we all see and pulls the trigger quickly.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Bulls fired Del Negro in order to hire Thibs
and the majority of Chicago threw a party.
gah, reply fail. meant to reply to ClipperChuck
anyway, im a Bulls fan. i’m really kind of ticked that you guys aren’t coming to Chicago this year. i have season tickets and this is such a fun match-up to watch.
im actually thankful
Would be tough to win there
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
won last year
(albeit with some help at the line from Rose) and I thought I heard someone say that the Clips record at UC is actually pretty good, but don’t know what exactly it is.
Yes
you guys have a much better FO than us, all you have to do is look at our relative benches. You guys added Korver and Brewer and we added Gomes and Foye (all make about the same). Not hard to tell which of those were better signings.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 31, 2011 1:48 AM PST up reply actions
optimism???
we’ve got:
one of the worst D of the league
one of the worst bench of the league
the worst coaching of the league
rookies? TT look lost most of the time and is ridicolous comparing him to nba big men, Leslie can’t see the court during an horrible 8 men rotation
you guys also have two star players in Griffin and Paul. at absolute worst, you've got a good foundation.
in the NBA, there’s….
Clippers: Paul, Griffin
Lakers: Bryant, Gasol
Mavericks: Nowitzki, Kidd
Heat: Wade, Bosh, James
Thunder: Durant, Westbrook
Bulls: Rose, Boozer
Spurs: Duncan, Ginobli, Parker
Celtics: Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Rondo
Knicks: Anthony, Stoudemire
the majority of the league’s stars are on 9 teams. Howard is trying to get out of Orlando because he want’s to play with another star, the Nets are trying to trade for another star to keep Williams from leaving, and Atlanta had to give Joe Johnson more money than anybody on the above list except Kobe to convince him to stay in Atlanta.
point is, the vast majority of NBA teams wish they had 1 star. Memphis and Milwaukee are giving max contracts to Rudy Gay and Andrew Bogut because they so badly want to have a real franchise player they can build a contender around. the Clippers have two true stars. it might take some time, and may need some moves to be made in building a team around those guys, but the Clips will be fine.
I think the Clips problem
is they better start putting some W’s on the board, or Paul’s 2 year contract might start looking oftly short…
That's right
And Rome wasn’t built in a day. We have a good foundation. The people running around like chickens with their heads cut off need to chill. Having said that, I’m concerned about the defensive rotations, sub patterns and timeouts. If they don’t improve we can blame the coach legitimately.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
VDN
had the same problem last year and had the same problems with the Bulls. What’s the breaking point?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Dec 31, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Patience young padawan
Last year they rarely had a full team. They have a new team this year. You are 3 games in. You tell me junior
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Jan 1, 2012 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
We need to trade Mo unfortunately
He’s not happy with being a sixth man. Lets get Ariza and Bellinelli. Oh, one more thing, can we please sign a back up bigman for DJ already!! Pryzbilla or Fesenko would be so nice!
I Like the Clippers.. I also use clippers to cut my hair
I agree that it seems we must trade him
But I think we should try to package a deal with him. I have said this countless times, but I would like a trade in which we get Ariza AND Jarrett Jack. If we ship Williams to Hornets, he would most likely start. If we can get Jarrett Jack, we get an already established PG who can guard. Also, Ariza may not be an offensive threat anymore, but he is solid defensively. I like Bledsoe, but he is somewhat risky to put on the 2nd team, not to mention he will be a train wreck in the playoffs. And I don’t have to mention Foye to anyone, but he is valuable because he is basically a salary dump. So I think Williams+Bledsoe+Foye for Jarrett Jack + Ariza would be GREAT. We got a solid PG and SF in terms of defense. Then we just look for a backup big and possibly a real two (BOGANS!)
Oh yes, I forgot to mention why Hornets do this.
They obviously want a young core and or ways to dump salary so they can sell the team. They have shown great interest in Bledsoe seeing as they were able to cancel the deal for him. They are also interested in Mo Williams, and Foye is just a salary dump so they get 3 things they want while we take on Ariza’s hefty contract.
it’s hard to understand why you want a 3rd PG and 3rd SF (unfortunately Gomes is still on the roster) while we have ZERO shooting guard!!!!
That is why we sign one
Like Bogans. We don’t need an abundant amount of guards, and that is why my proposal sent a bunch of them away. We would have 1 back up PG in Jarrett Jack, 2 back up SG’s in Bogans and Leslie (which I think is needed because Billups can be out on any given night), and honestly, all of our backup SF"s are weak. Are you considering Thompkins one? Because he is more of a four. Defense is what wins games, and with Jarrett Jack, Bogans, and Ariza, we have a stellar defense and size advantage.
Good point
About ej injury. Also our two losses is against two of the best reg season teams of last year. Cp3 needs to be the leader he was in NO and foget about having “big brother” on the team
by arman martikian on Dec 31, 2011 8:12 AM PST via mobile reply actions
The Clippers Defense Sucks
Lets be realistic about this. I don’t care how good Chicago or San Antonio are but allowing opponents to shoot 48.3% (27th worst in the league) over a season like they are doing is not going to cut it.
I am not smart enough about basketball to know how to fix the problem but I am smart enough to know that it needs fixing big time if the Clippers hope to become a serious playoff contender
Rookie Update
Kylie Irving last night ( loss)
20 pt, 5 assists, 4 rebounds.
"Who wants a free Sharpie?"
Kyrie Irving missed a gamewinng layup
I know he is young, but no excuse for that.
The thing is
Blake doesn’t have to take jumpers. I believe he scored everything that was NOT a jumper last night… go figure. Sometimes I feel like he’s trying too hard to prove his critics (most of whom are just amateur nasty fans of other teams.. like the Lakers) wrong by showing versatility. We Clips fans know he is versatile… but that was a Bulls game, and I said, if everything that was not a jumper was falling, there was no reason to stop. Blake has to play more according to the needs of the team… If they’re doing a bad job inside, get inside and score 50 and 75-80% field goal, I don’t care not taking jumpers, it’s still two points. Many players became indisputable legends without a jumper (except that… they actually played defense too)
by kikyexcel on Dec 31, 2011 8:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
There was one time where Blake went up against 3 Bulls and still scored.
Got hacked and no whistle. Last night those guys were Chicago referee’s.
The offense is getting better, thank god. And we're a lot closer to winning if DJ ins't commiting the dumbest fouls in world.
But still too much standing around. I think Vinny is entirely leaving the offense up to Paul. In spite of this, we’re going to win games with the offense we saw last night; with Blake and Paul being more aggressive which is good for their game and their teammates waiting on the wing for an open 3. But the defense has got to get better. The team should be working on defense just about the entire day today. Way too often are they scrambling to open shooters while flailing their arms. You’ll notice this becomes a lot more noticeable when DJ is out of the game.
by dulciusXasperis on Dec 31, 2011 8:40 AM PST reply actions
VDN has no clue when to take timeouts.
“We have momentum right now… TIME OUT!” I can’t imagine how anyone could take him seriously. The only thing he knows how to do apparently is butter up NBA owners so he can keep getting jobs.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
by 82-0 on Dec 31, 2011 8:42 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Yeah he was bad last night
and it was easy to see how outcoached he was. It’s not usually that bad. Well, god forbid we miss the playoffs I guarantee you Vinny will not be returning….well actually with Sterling at the helm that may not hold true.
by dulciusXasperis on Dec 31, 2011 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
Be Careful About The Time Out Thing
You could be correct about last night but all televised games include TV timeouts for the obvious reason. For example there will always be a TV timeout at around the 2 minute mark of each quarter. This is automatic and if the coach doesn’t call one the officials will stop that action for a timeout. That is just how it is.
Of course there are more than four TV times required during the 48 minutes of on court action so if the coaches don’t use them then the officials will find a way to get them worked into the games for example through questionable foul calls.
This of course is different than football where TV time outs can be worked into the game after scores, change of possession etc without affecting the flow of the game.
that's pretty interesting
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I Hate It But There Is No Choice But To Live With It
if you are NBA fan.
VDN
Personally, I would give Vinny a fairly long leash this year. Last night was nothing to worry about and I’ll tell you why.
Lets assume that Reggie Evans will be in the rotation when he is healthy. Lets also assume the Clippers will bring in a backup center in the next couple of weeks. Throw in the fact that Vinny is incorporating three new starters (CP3, Butler, Chauncey) into his system and oh yeah, one of them is already out of the lineup for game three!
So the Clippers are missing three big pieces of their “chemistry”, four if you count Bledsoe, and everyone is getting all nervous about a loss last night to perhaps the second best team in the east, that returns everyone from a team that led the NBA in defense last year, and has the reigning MVP.
I am not judging him on some random time-out call in game three. CP3 said something a couple of weeks ago about calling someone before considering the Clipps and that he heard good things about VDN. I think the glaring deficiencies that we are all frustrated with right now will correct themselves with playing time and continuity in the rotation. I am still pumped!
by MySDClippers on Dec 31, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
+.75.
I agree with your points but am not convinced of your conclusion at least not with respect to this season.
The way I see this season unfolding is for the Clippers to make the playoffs because of their offense. What they do beyond just getting there will depend on an improved team defense. I have no idea at this point whether it will improve enough this season for the Clippers to get by the first round in the playoffs.
DJ has to stay out of foul trouble
He’s the only one on the team that can challenge and alter shots. When DJ is out the clips probably have the worst interior defense in the league.
True
Its often a very fine line between having a foul called or not on a player. There are numerous things that can affect how fouls are called from game to game.
For example, teams that are consistently more aggressive on defense tend to get away with a bit more in this area than teams that are not so defensively aggressive.
Home teams tend to have fewer fouls called on them probably because they are usually more aggressive. Now I am not talking about charging into someone when you have the ball. However, you see a lot of bumping and wrestling down low in games. More so in the playoffs. Interestingly enough it is often the player who retaliates that gets called for the foul.
DJ is still relatively inexperienced especially against playoff seasoned group like the Bulls. Noah, Boozer, etc know all the tricks and how to use them. Now this doesn’t mean that DJ will automatically learn all this and reduce his foul rate. It is more complicated than that. However, he needs to continue to work with his coaches and teammates on this.
One area where an anchor like Dj often gets into trouble is having to come over cover someone’s else man either through a rotation or another Clippers player messing up on defense. Knowing when to hold them; i.e. try and stop the offensive player in these circumstances or fold them and let the player score because its a high risk foul situation in a non-critical part of the game comes with experience, coaching and good judgment.
Trying to block a 3 point shot with foul trouble is not the brightest move.
"Who wants a free Sharpie?"
You Got To Know When To Hold Them and When To Fold Them
These are young guys and they love the roar of the crowd cheering them on. Blocks and Dunks get the crowd pumped up. Its a learning process for a young player to realize that in cases like this it is better to fold them. That doesn’t mean you don’t make a run- out at the shooter but it is what I call a faux run-out. It looks like a run-out and may affect the shooter’s concentration enough to cause them to miss the shot, but it is not a serious attempt to block the shoot.
I don’t recall that play but why the hell would DJ be running at anyone beyond the three point line in an attempt to block their shot or even be out there guarding anyone unless it is a last second game deciding shot. Sounds like the Clippers defense really got messed up on that play.
it was a open 3 off the kick out
People we can’t have it both way DJ forced the kickout not one damn guard even attempted to recover on the shooter so Jordan so the guy setting up for the three and went out to contest the shot and he barley touched the shooters finger tips after the release. Its a foul but its a hustle foul.
Think about it no wing player looked to contest the open shot so DJ moves out hoping that someone else can get the rebound he was just a second to late ir he would of had the block.
Perimeter defense has to step up Paul is being beat far to often and we already know Mo was going to struggle guarding RIP we have to become collectively better defensive team.
by KillaClip on Dec 31, 2011 11:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
i agree with the hold them and fold'em
But the defense is so leaky we need those gambles or we would be down early more often.
by KillaClip on Dec 31, 2011 10:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Out-rebounded yet again.
You can’t give up offensive rebounds against a team like the Spurs and the Bulls. They can easily turn those extra possessions into points. (The Warriors out-rebounded the Clippers, too). Ryan Gomes played PF again last night. I mean, really, Vinny? Your guys are getting KILLED on the boards and you wanna keep playing Ryan Gomes at PF? Maybe it’s possible that Trey Thompkins is a better rebounder than Gomes and Coook combined. The Clippers are too limited defensively to allow opposing teams have multiple possessions.
Is anyone else worried as much as I am that Blake is taking a lot of jumpers? We’ve heard time and again that Blake is bothered by length. I can remember late in the third when Noah was on the bench and Gibson was on Blake, CP3 was at the top of the key and Blake set a pick for him, what does he do? He takes a jumper at the elbow and misses. Chicago goes on the run and scores. Ensuing time out, Noah comes in the game to guard Blake. This happened again later in the fourth. Noah had just returned to the game with FIVE fouls, instead of operating in the low block, he shot another JUMPER. He needs to recognize who’s guarding him and get in the low block for a higher % shot or getting contact.
Great recap, Newtybar
You saw pretty much exactly what I saw last night. And I appreciate the balanced perspective: No matter how much we wish otherwise, with all the new faces, no matter how talented, this thing is gonna take some time.
The only thing I’d add has to do with the idea that Blake was “settling” for jumpshots. That’s not what I saw at all. For the vast majority of his touches he was in attack mode, and through the first 3 quarters he pretty much singlehandedly kept us in the game. Unfortunately, since Vinny has apparently never watched a basketball game played at any level (um, what? he used to play in the NBA?), he couldn’t see what was painfully obvious to anyone who was paying attention: With about 2 minutes left in both the 1st and 3rd quarters — particularly in the 3rd — Blake was totally gassed. He needed to be subbed for immediately, but ol’ Vin left him out there anyway. The result was felt on both ends of the court — his D went from the usual step behind to nonexistent, and on offense he didn’t have the energy to attack so he settled for jumpers (which, since he had no legs, had no prayer of going in). The runs the Bulls made at the ends of both those quarters played out the same way: Our gassed squad settling for jumpers, the Bulls running circles around us, moving the ball, and getting wide-open looks.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Oh, and one more thing
Foye may be the biggest ball-stopper in NBA history, and the fact he drained his first 2 only made it worse. I’m not sure he threw a single pass the entire game.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Yep
I remember Ralph or Mike, sorry I can’t remember which one, mentioned that Blake was gassed.
Another way to tell if a player is gassed is if he bending over during free throws trying to catch his breath or suck in as much air as possible.
Blake either needs to commit to taking the jumper more quickly or pass the ball
The hesitating shows little confidence in the shot.
"Who wants a free Sharpie?"
This
He often hesitate, does his fancy between the leg dribble, sizes up his man and then settles for the same or worse jump shot. He needs to just go straight up with it or make his move to the goal. Defenses will play him tighter just for his decisiveness, which then opens up the drive and/or for others.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
In watching the game
your guys’ team the Clips really need two things to happen:
1) DeAndre has GOT to stay out of foul trouble. W/o him, your interior D goes to hell.
2) Somehow the bench has got to be improved. Besides Mo, it’s all a giant question mark. Cook should not even be in the NBA anymore. Hope Evans shows something once he’s able to get back on the floor.
some of those things can be fixed instantly with health
When Bledsoe gets back Foye shouldn’t play anymore and gives us a slasher and player who can attack off the dribble. We slide Mo to the two. Ryan Gomes can be productive with the second unit when we have a player who can drive and kick like Bledsoe and Mo.
At PF we can have to different play styles we can look to open the floor with Thompkins or can hold off a hot big with Evans.
The biggest need is a back up center its a must there is no way around it we need length and someone who is not afraid to get physical in the paint.
by KillaClip on Dec 31, 2011 12:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Man you guys also came down to earth last night w/o EJ playing
When is he scheduled back?
"Who wants a free Sharpie?"
some of those things can be fixed instantly with health
When Bledsoe gets back Foye shouldn’t play anymore and gives us a slasher and player who can attack off the dribble. We slide Mo to the two. Ryan Gomes can be productive with the second unit when we have a player who can drive and kick like Bledsoe and Mo.
At PF we can have to different play styles we can look to open the floor with Thompkins or can hold off a hot big with Evans.
The biggest need is a back up center its a must there is no way around it we need length and someone who is not afraid to get physical in the paint.
by KillaClip on Dec 31, 2011 1:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Weren't we one of the best rebounding teams last season?
Blake is an excellent rebounder, but he’s spending too much time outside..too far from the basket to gobble rebounds. DJ has not been rebounding. Evans will help. I know the team will get better. Blake will become the Blake we know with more offensive punch, hopefully better defense. DJ will start grabbing more boards and Evans will do what he’s good at. I think things will slowly start falling into place.
DJ goes for weakside blocks a lot, thus getting out of position for the defensive rebound.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
+1 once the perimeter d steps up
DJ won’t have to go so far out on weak side he can run a guy out of the paint and get back in position. Right now when someone gets beat everyone loses their man.
by KillaClip on Dec 31, 2011 1:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
DJ has no business running out to block somebody outside of the key....
If they are uncovered, who cares. It’s not his job. He needs to man the paint when his man is nearby or when it’s not a shooter he’s cover outside. If our perimeter defense is failing, no sense in sacrificing the interior defense to take a chance at a much lower attempt of a block further weakening the defense down low and minimizing our defensive chances. It’s much better for DJ just to let him take the wide open shot and prepare for the rebound.
Our best deal for our offense as a whole (because Paul is on a good trend) is for Blake to “flow freely”. He is too talented to over think things, if thats what he is actually doing. He’s too smart to hesitate. He’s played basketball since forever, so the tendencies come naturally, coupled with his unbelievable skill and talents, He should be able to play an absolutely free flowing, constantly moving (the conditioning needs to be there for this), repeatedly touching the ball (he and Chris Paul both) type of game. He’s smart enough and dominant enough to control the game in such a manner. Something only point guards normally only get but with out the responsibility to others as a point guard carries. A cross between Kobe and Rip Hamilton perhaps. So many easy points will come to him which will also open the door for Caron and Chauncey. All of this movement should be around the 15 of the rim. Teams will have a very hard time trying to keep tabs on him.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
An Interesting Problem Here
On defense who sees the court best and where everyone is on the court?
The answer is of course the player who has all other nine players in front of him and within his peripheral vision.
So who will this be most of the time?
The Center, not the PG, SG or SF, though sometimes the PF will be closest to the basket on defense.
Why do I mention this?
Because just like in football someone on defense who is playing is responsible for determining the defensive play by his team. Who is most suited to do that in basketball?
It is usually the guy closest to the basket who has the most players in front of him and within his peripheral vision. Keep in the mind here the first rule of defense; i.e never let your man get behind you. Who is that player? It is usually the Center.
So it is usually the Center who is in the best position on the court to monitor the activity of the other nine players. So in the Clippers case this would be DJ or possibly Blake.
Now nothing against them since I love both of their games but they do not have a whole lot of NBA experience. Contrary to what some casual fans may think NBA defenses and offenses are not so simple but can in fact be very complicated. This is also true even when the ISO play is being run especially with players like Blake or Lebron who are isolated with the ball on offense, because they both can pass so well.
So ISTM that a big part of the Clippers defensive problems have to do with DJ and Blake just not having that much NBA experience and therefore not being able to read the plays that well the Clippers opponents are running. Keep in mind that with NBA players it is often a very fine line between being able to stop a play and not stop it and yes experience here matters.
The other thing is communication. If DJ is the defensive quarterback so to speak he not only has to remain in the proper position to observe what is going on on the court but he needs to be able to communicate this to the other four Clippers on the court a number of which most likely are not visually in contact with all nine players.
The guy on defense who needs to be directing the defense not only needs NBA experience but also needs to try and be in the right location on a play and be a good communicator.
DJ is a good communicator in the sense that he can be very verbal...
But he lacks in focus sometimes. Not as bad as Kaman though in his lapses.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Jan 1, 2012 5:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Rest of the starting 5 needs to step it up
Caron has has pulled 1/2/1/1 outside of the Warriors game and our backcourt is getting outrebounded by the opponent’s. Guys have to box out and hit the boards rather than trying to leak out early.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
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