Los Angeles Clippers 127 - Washington Wizards 119 - Gordon Goes from Goat to Hero
by Steve Perrin on Mar 23, 2011 11:49 PM PDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintThe Clippers came dangerously close to giving the Washington Wizards only their second road win of the season, which would have been a lowlight in the season to rival the loss that snapped Cleveland's 26 game losing streak. But trailing by two with seven seconds to go and John Wall at the line for two free throws, Wall missed the second, leaving the Clippers one last chance. Inbounding with 5 seconds left now down three, LA got the ball to Eric Gordon. He pump faked to let JaVale McGee sail by (McGee had spiked his last shot attempt only a few seconds earlier) and then lined up a three pointer that was perfect. Tie game. The Clippers finally closed out the game in the second overtime.
[A quick aside - the Clippers have now won three games this season thanks at least in part to last second misses at the foul line by three consecutive star guards, all of whom played for John Calipari in college. Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans and now Wall have all missed last second free throws, either allowing the Clippers to win in regulation or allowing the Clippers the opportunity to tie the game and send it to overtime.]
The crucial three pointer was redemption for Gordon - at the end of regulation, and then again in the first overtime, he mishandled, committing key unforced turnovers. If the Clippers had lost the game, those miscues would have loomed very large. Gordon has always been more than a little slapdash with the basketball, but his handle had seemed to be tightening up before his injury. Tonight he was as sloppy as ever - he committed five turnovers, and most if not all were of his own making. In addition to the two mishandles at the end of regulation, he also kicked the ball away at the end of the first half, turning the Clippers' two-for-one opportunity into a John Wall dunk in the blink of an eye. After a long layoff, and with a sore right wrist, Gordon has ample excuses. But let's hope he can find the grip again, because it's pretty tough to have a closer who is as likely to dribble off his own foot as he is to score the winning bucket.
The Clippers were incredibly dependent on just three players tonight: Griffin (33), Gordon (32) and Chris Kaman (28) combined to score 93 of the team 127 points. It was so distinctly a three man show that through three quarters, no other Clipper had made more than one field goal. Fortunately, Mo Williams stepped up to join the other three in the fourth quarter, scoring twelve points in the period.
Kaman came within 2 points of getting his career high of 30 points, but he finished with 28, keeping his 20wo30 streak alive. In addition to the 28 points, he also had 14 rebounds and 4 blocks in what was surely his best game of the season.
Speaking of milestones, with his pass to Randy Foye late in the second overtime which resulted in a dagger three pointer, Blake Griffin recorded his first career triple double. Ironically, this is how he decided to bust out of his slump of seven consecutive games without double digits, by skipping right over the double double and going straight to the triple double. ["Schwartz had created a slight breach of protocol by skipping over the double dare, and going straight to the dreaded triple dog dare" - name that movie!]
Should the Clippers have needed two overtimes to beat the Wizards? Of course not - at least not on paper. But the Clippers seem very capable of playing down or up to their competition, and this game was no exception. After jumping out to an impressive early lead, the Clippers started turning the ball over incessantly, allowing the Wizards to get back into the game.It made for an exciting game, if not exactly a well-played game.
John Wall scored a career high 32, and also had 10 assists. Not to be outdone, fellow rookie Jordan Crawford scored 25 points himself starting in the place of Nick Young. Crawford also had 10 assists. McGee and the much-maligned Yi Jianlian both also played well, combining for 40 points on 20 for 28 shooting. Yi joined Wall in scoring a season high, and Crawford was only 2 points away from his career high. So now you see why other teams get up for Clippers games: it's a career high waiting to happen.
It was the Clippers' first overtime victory of the season. They've really been terrible in close games overall, and they were 0-4 in overtime games before this one. But all they had to do was to find a team that was just as young and erratic as they are. The Wizards are that team.
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props to Gordon for hitting that shot after getting blocked
that would usuallu hurt a plyers confidence too much
I was just thinking earlier in the game that Gordon was eventually going to hit a game winner shot
that 3 was definitely his biggest shot of his career, and the best part is that he barely showed any emotion. He acted like it was no big deal, he is a stone cold assassin. Now if only he could get his dribble under control (although a messed up wrist has to be part of the problem).
It wasn’t pretty but it was good to get a win in a close game.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
by bestclipfan on Mar 24, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Fun game... but a bit maddening
SP, the movie is “A Christmas Story”… but I think the exact line is: “Shwartz created a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the triple dare and going right for the throat.”
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
I was at the game, the 4th quarter and overtimes were crazy!
It shouldn’t have came down to two overtimes, but it was super exciting! Too many turnovers, Kaman with 7 and Mo, EJ, and BG each with 5, WTF! At least Mo step up in the 4th when our offense seem stagnant! It was truly an exciting and great game in the end, but it shouldn’t have ever been that! Bring on the Fakers and Tobe!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
yea i was there too!
with like 3 mins left in the 4Quarter…everyone was standing throughout the rest of the night!
the best part had to been these two guys chanting John Wall all night..tell him that Eric Beldsoe was the best guard out of Kentucky…..and then next play…Bledsoe blocks John Wall…that was sweeeeet!
it was cool too was when CSmeezy was telling everyone in my section (116) to stand up at the start of the 1OT and we did and were all cheering…regardless of the game, most players dont interact with the crowd (other than high 5’s)
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double!
I was in 115
yea when Rhino did that it got me all geeked out too
I was all the was in 209
So I was way too far to see that! Bet it was awesome!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
["Schwartz had created a slight breach of protocol by skipping over the double dare, and going straight to the dreaded triple dog dare" - name that movie!]
A Christmas Story.
“Aunt Clara had for years labored under the delusion that I was not only perpetually 4 years old, but also a girl. "
Way more stressful than it needed to be, but thankfully we pulled it out.
It was great to see Blake get his 1st career triple double, even if it took 51 minutes. We made far too many mistakes tonight and gave them too many opportunities to get second chance points. Milph said the amount of points they got off of turnovers to us and the disparity was disgusting. It was a game that we shouldn’t have won given those statistics, but I’ll it no matter how ugly it is.
Before the season, I predicted between 36-38 wins. At this point, I’ll be ecstatic to get 33. If we could avoid 50 losses, I’d be satisfied.
Proud member of Club FTR
I agree
It was amazing to get the win w/ the amount of turnovers we had
anyone know the record of team that had
25 turnovers? I assume it’s not very good.
and
as long as the clips are improving every year, i’ll be happy. We should easily surpass the 29 wins from last year. I was hoping for 40, but thinking realistically 35. That might still be very attainable. I’ll say, right now, I haven’t been completely happy with the way this season went, but after it’s all over, hopefully looking back on it, i’ll think it was a success.
I said that not looking at our schedule
looking at it now, I’d be ecstatic if we could go 7-3. 6 games left on the road. Only 3 games against non-playoff teams (2 of which are away at Phoenix and Houston, just outside the playoff bubble).
Looking at it now, I’ll be happy with a better record than last year…
Good rallying cry
“Avoid 50 losses!”
by citizen zhiv on Mar 24, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
name that movie
EY GOMES, GO GET YA SHINEBOX!!
wine um, dine um, 69 um
by flightofthegriffin on Mar 24, 2011 12:37 AM PDT reply actions
every time i see Goodfellas
it makes me want to watch Animaniacs (and the Goodfeathers!). man i loved that show
so funny now after years of loving goodfellas
that goodfeathers was the bit i watched way before the movie it was based on
Blake's D
Blake actually played some pretty good defense tonight. Did a good job when he switched onto Wall, and that one time he stripped Wall on what looked like an easy layup was impressive. Then there was that charge he drew on Crawford. Those were a couple game-saving plays.
the strip, the charge, and when he double teamed jordan crawford causing him to fall out of bounds were the only times all night i saw him play defense. I was sitting behind the free throw line and he rarely hustled back after the clippers missed the shot/turned it over.
I agree with you
The instances I mentioned were isolated ones, and his positioning on D and general awareness are still pretty atrocious for someone with his smarts and athletic ability.
At the same time, though, it’s encouraging that there even were a few times that he made heads-up defensive plays last night, even if it was against the Wizards. It might not have been for more than a few minutes, but at least he showed he’s capable of playing pretty good defense. What he needs to do now is start exerting more consistent effort on that end of the floor.
I'm glad I took Crawford for Superstar for a game
sure it was the “safe” choice, cause he’s a volume shooter, and proven he can score in this league, but still put up some decent numbers. Sure 10-28 shooting, 2-9 from 3, and 7 turnovers (over a third of the team total) probably didn’t really help his team, but still any guy that puts up a line of 25-10-7 looks like he had a good game ;)
Besides Wall, Javale probably had the best game. If I were a Washington fan, I wouldn’t know what to think of him. He has flashes of being amazing, then does something completely bone-headed. His “triple-double” a few games ago, was just embarrassing, and his wanna-be free throw line dunks this year were just painful to watch. That being said, he does seem to have some natural feel for the game, and in this game, I was impressed with a lot of the plays he made. Hopefully he grows out of that “I gotta make Sportcenter” mentality. I think he’ll be a solid player for a long time though.
He works hard and hustles big reason for his high scoring game
As long as he brings the energy he will always find a place in the league. Hopefully Jordan /McGee develop into top tier centers like Noah, Perkins, and Howard as defensive aces.
We're seeing new guys
Humphries went for 23 rebounds last night. Maybe the Clippers should get credit for launching players to the next level. The “I’m playing the Clippers tonight! The Clippers! What a rare bright spot in my slog through the NBA. I’m going for a career high!” thing really needs to be played up.
We remembered McGee, who had the best game of his first two seasons against the Clippers, and then he looked great in summer league against DJ. Tonight I learned/remembered that he’s Pam McGee’s son. That put it over the top for me. This guy is great. He seems pretty likable, and he’s a good longtime companion for Wall. If they work hard enough they could do damage together, along the lines of Rose-Noah. McGee has to learn to play with the energy of Noah, and then he starts to compete against Dwight Howard. It just highlights how lucky DJ and the Clippers are to have Blake Griffin. Griffin has accelerated everybody’s development, and now you can barely imagine a version of DeAndre Jordan without his influence. Griffin’s effect on Jordan is profound. McGee doesn’t have that, but now he’s got John Wall. And I gotta say, the biggest regret from last night is that we didn’t get to see McGee vs. DJ. It’s a great matchup.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 24, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was seeing flashes of CP3 & Tyson Chandler from these two.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Mar 24, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I only saw a small part of the game and missed the finish but here is my take
1) Although it may be a bit disenchanting to have to work so hard to win against a team with a 1-33 away record playing the second game on a back to back I still like this win. If we just won easily nobody would have taken notice given the state of the Wizards. Now several Clippers had to preform heroic feats to win a close game which should energize them for the closing part of the season.
2) VDN shouldn’t wheel the 3 guards formation out so easily. With Foye and Mo on the floor defense and rebounding surfers too much. VDN should at least put Bledsoe in to compensate a bit for these defects. Although Kaman seems to have done a decent job the three guard formation does scream for a player like DJ: shot blocker, rebounder, doesn’t need too many possessions to be productive. With Mo, Gordon, Foye and Kaman on the team you have 4 shooters on the floor with the odd man out being Blake. No wonder Gordon wasn’t getting any touches.
3) I really don’t know what to make of Gordon, the closer. His 3 at the end of OT 1 was absolutely brilliant. But he and VDN need to spice up his closing play. Basically he waits until the clock goes down to 10 and then drives into oncoming traffic. His handling isn’t near good enough to consistently navigate that kind of traffic, everyone knows what he is going to try and to top it off a shot-blocking daemon like McGee was waiting in the paint.
on #3
Yeah, you’re right, but lets cut EJ some slack in his comeback from a lengthy injury. Let him put up 150 points or so over the next few games, and then his handle and his creativity will be a lot better than they are right now. His 3 point shot is falling better than it has all year. And he hit the big shot last night, which shows he’s a true closer and gives him confidence. You point out a good thing, in “no wonder Gordon wasn’t getting any touches” while looking at the lineup. I thought it was just Mo Williams getting hot, but Foye hit a big shot when he closed it out, and he’s deadly at the line tho he finally missed one.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 24, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm ready to cut anything for EJ
But that play was even shaky before his injury. But it is not only EJ fault. The team needs to be more creative in those instances. Now the opponent knows what is going to happen.
by BelgianClipper on Mar 24, 2011 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Two bad NBA teams trying to determine who is the best of the worst.
25 turnovers against a team that has won one away game all year. Unacceptable
i can name at least 5 teams worse than us
we just play down to competition which is a head scratcher because we have beat all the division leaders this season
by Brian Ahmed on Mar 24, 2011 7:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Why is Yi smiling in the pic above?
Looks like he is just chilling. Blake with intensity looks like hes gonna dunk over the whole team.
Gordon's wrist
No doubt in my mind that EJ’s turnovers are in part the result of playing with a wrist that’s not 100%. Some random thoughts: It was EJ who VDN decided to put on Wall in OT. The Clips and BG specifically must learn to play the pick and roll more effectively. Once Wash penetrated, Kaman offered no resistance at the rim. I wonder what the Clips’ defensive efficiency is with Kaman vs. DJ on the floor. Finally, as good a shooting game that Kaman had, he had too many TOs because he thinks too much on O. Keep it simple and don’t try to do something you’re not capable of doing.
Pick and roll defense is awful
As is the team defense in general right now…DJ will help. Right now there is little to no resistance from the guards on pick and roll. I think the supporting big man should hedge on the screen and force the guard back again. The weakside defender needs to rotate into the paint to defend against the roller. It’s a very simple way to defend the pick and roll, but I think it is the most effective for this group.
at this point any win is a good win
Clips find ways to make every game interesting so we just gotta live with it… somebody tell me did Yi have his best game of his career??? so much for Gomes having an edge as i mentioned in the game preview
by Brian Ahmed on Mar 24, 2011 8:00 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
re: did Yi have his best game of his career?
No, not according to BB-Ref’s “Game Score.” It wasn’t even his best game of the season (it was his second best though.) His best game this season was in January against Dallas. 14 points, 11 rebounds 4 steals and a block in only 28 minutes.
The best game of his career was actually all the way back in December of his rookie year. He had 29 points (on 14 of 17 from the field!) 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals and a block.
He actually had a better game against the Clippers back in 08/09.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
thanks
somhow we bring out the best in these bums he did have his best game against us so i got the team right just the wrong yr
by Brian Ahmed on Mar 24, 2011 9:01 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah, his best game (his rookie year) was against Charlotte.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
EJ's handle
Are both his wrists hurting? As he was equally as bad dribbling with both hands. Also he unfortunately has gone from looking like a Hobbit to a skunk. With this all being said, I think his clutch 3 pointer was his only winning/tieing shot to date.
Very interesting also that both teams had college teammates playing against each other last night. Bledsoe vs Walls and EJ vs Crawford (at Indiana). Crawford was the same kind of chucker at IU. One shot unbelievably good followed by an awful one.
I guess EJ's empathic tomahawk jam on the Jazz in Utah to send the game to OT doesn't count?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxrv8sNeIE&feature=player_embedded
And those are excellent pre-injury handles by Eric Gordon.
one play doesnt change anything
EJs handles could use some overall improvement if he wants to take it to another level.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 12:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha, I know one play doesn't change anything, just like one game means absolutely nothing, but....
What level would that be? He will never be Kobe Bryant or even Dwyane Wade. He is more of a combination of Ray Allen, Ben Gordon, Hershey Hawkins type player. EJ shoots the 3 from any spot on the floor, drives the lane on straight line moves, and comes off screens to hit shots. The floater, finishing with the right or left hand, and dunking in traffic are what seperates him as being an even better scorer than what people thought he would be.
I am content with were EJ is at. 20+ ppg scorer for his career and a top 25 PER every season are great numbers. I think that is more than most fans thought he would be at any point in his career. I never thought he would be a 24 ppg guy ever.
Every fan of Eric Gordon knows that his handles could use some improvement, but let’s not forget we are talking about a guy that is a proven shooter and the 9th leading scorer in the NBA this season. And while his handles might not be as great as the likes of Kobe, Wade, Rose, or even Ellis, he is a much better shooter.
Among the top 10 scorers EJ is 4th in TS% (.587), 5th in FG% (46.5%), 3rd in 3pt% (37.2%), and 6th in ft% (82.4%).
EJ is a great scorer, and a nice efficient scorer, but the other level Chuck refers to is somebody who does more than scoring. EJ doesn’t rebound at all, so he’ll generate more value by being a playmaker. If he can’t handle the ball (which will limit his ability to distribute) and he can’t rebound, his value will stay lower than it could be. And that’s okay, but those are the things LAC will have to weigh when they commit big money to him.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
EJ's on the list, but there's a reason he's closer to Allen and Martin than to Bryant and Wade.
(article’s a little old, but…)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/521694-nba-kobe-bryant-dwayne-wade-and-the-top-10-shooting-guards-in-the-nba-today
The awesome thing is that EJ’s game is still changing. He’s adding new moves to his repertoire and his handles were certainly improving pre-wrist-injury. He seems more active on the boards, from a hustle perspective, and his 3p% has been awesome since the early slump. As with all things Clipper-related, only time will tell.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
+1
EJ will continue to get better, you can’t compare him to any player because we still don’t know what player he will become. His handling definitely needs to improve, and his rebounding was also a concern but he’s much better in that regard than last season.
Bottom line, his ceiling is very high as he has yet to reach his potential…and that’s scary because he’s already so damn good.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on Mar 24, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey NBAFAN8 its impossible trying to defend Gordon with these trolls.
Gordon has improved on all his numbers and they still want blood.
FG% 3PT PTS ASSIST REB FT
2009/10 44.9 37.1 16.9 3.0 2.6 74.3
2010/11 46.5 37.2 23.7 4.4 4.4 82.5
Yes his handling hasn’t gotten better but like i said before he’s a shooting guard
not a point guard. Its like beating a drum as hard as you can and theirs no getting
thru these guys.
You can call them troll if you want, but they do have a point.
I’m one of those that expect him to do more than what he’s doing right now. Like more assists, at least. And I’m really surprised that his handle is this bad. When he was in college I thought he was very similar to Wade but has better 3-pt shooting. I think all ‘guards’ should have better handle than the ‘forwards’ or ‘centers’.
Unlike some here, I’m not too worried about his rebounding though. He’s probably too big and strong in high school and college that he didn’t have to box out on rebounding, he doesn’t know how to box out now that he’s in the NBA. Either way, as long as he plays great defense, he’s good to me. It’s not like Clips are getting out rebounded every night.
I do expect his assist to be higher, but probably because of the bad handling, he’s not getting much of it. But when talking about bad handling, I’m more worried about going one-on-one kind of thing. Every go to man should be able to do that IMO. Not sure EJ is there yet. I expect nothing but improvement.
by RockyMountain on Mar 24, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
you have his rebounding off
He’s averaging 3 rebounds a game a small improvement over last years 2.6. All of the gains in rebounding have essentially been on offense (likely because he shoots more than before).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 5:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Surprise Win
My DVR ran out just before Gordon’s big shot…I had the impression that we couldn’t stop Washington. I couldn’t name a 5th player on their team, but that was definitely the best I’ve seen Wall, McGee, Crawford, & Yi play. Maybe they’ve been watching some tape on us and actually believed they could win.
The Clippers are pretty horrible playing with a lead, and they displayed this once again. They got a 12 pt. lead almost effortlessly in the 1st and 3rd quarters, and from there carelessness ensued. Bledsoe didn’t get much burn because of it.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Mar 24, 2011 8:13 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Painful
Was watching live and didn’t think of that: my dvr might not have gotten the whole thing. Sympathies.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 24, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
My DVR cut out right before the EJ three in the first OT.
Picked it back up again with 2:37 left in 2OT. It’s not fair being a Clipper fan…
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Mar 24, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Gotta set the DVR for 1 hour over time
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Mar 24, 2011 2:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
maybe twice a season...
I have mine set for 30 minutes extra, and yes, it cut off with the Clippers down 3 and 5 seconds left in the first OT. As it happens, I was watching as it happened, so it wasn’t a huge problem. FYI, when that happens to me, I just go to the nearest prime ticket replay. they usually show the game at least twice more. You don’t get to watch it right away, but at least you can see it eventually.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Mar 24, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
It was interesting to see
that Vinny put in Moon after either Mo or Griffin fouled out in 2ot. He had Gomes and Aminu available. One of these guys has to find their stroke and help lift this team in these pressure situations. I keep thinking of other teams that can send out JR Smith or Jason Terry to fire things up or when Dallas would send out a seasoned veteran like Stackhouse to quiet a loud arena. Congrats though to this team for a gutsy win!
Not much Aminu last night
Moon played well though.
by citizen zhiv on Mar 24, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
reminded me of d. miles
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on Mar 24, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
that offensive rebound
Was the unheralded play of the game.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 6:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
"it's pretty tough to have a closer who is as likely to dribble off his own foot as he is to score the winning bucket."
Eric Gordon was channelling Corey Maggette last night!
Yeah it’s tough to have a closer that does that … we have a lot of experience watching exactly that!
Eric Gordon might not be a perfect basketball player
But he is totally a perfect fit for this team!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
Game of the year for the Clippers (and probably Wiz as well)
There was very little defense played last night, and I couldn’t have been happier.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Yeah
Kaman had that one defensive stand late in the 4th, in the context of the game it was pretty epic.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Mar 24, 2011 9:21 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m considering doing a relegation fanpost at some point (inspired by a conversation on this board a few days ago.) Fans of relegation argue that teams don’t mail it in to end the year, and energy brought last night (well, on the offensive end at least) would be more common throughout the league instead of tanking.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
relegation to what?
the d-league? don’t get me wrong, i love relegation in football – just not sure how it would work in the NBA. i’d be very interested in reading that fanpost
No
My idea (and it’s not really my idea, Duffy at the Big Lead came up with a similar idea for Major League Baseball) would be to split the NBA into a Division 1 and Division II (15 teams each.) Just eyeballing it, I’d say you still need to have teams play agains the lower division so those teams can maintain somewhat similar revenues. So, you play teams in your division 4 times and the other division twice (home and home.)
I was also spitballing the idea of year end tournaments where the lower division winner competes in a 4 team tournament with the top 3 teams in the Primier division. If you have any ideas, I’d love to hear em.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
That might motivate an owner who is concerned about winning and prestige
But if the revenue downside is small under your plan, isn’t that extra incentive for a owner who doesn’t care to just sit in the lower division and rake it in?
There has to be the threat of catastrophe for relegation to mean anything to an owner who is content with the team as asset.
It’s hard for me to look at any system (whether it is a “for fun” idea like relegation, or the CBA) and develop it with DTS in mind. The guy is such an outlier.
So yes, DTS would be similarly unmotivated in this scenario to put a competive product on the floor, but any plan which doesn’t attempt to be revenue neutral would never be accepted by 20 of the 30 teams that would be perpetually fighting against relegation to a second division or in the second division. So, the threat of financial catastrophe is a non-starter.
Not that my plan should be taken all that seriously anyway, as this would NEVER be embraced and the front running in American sports would probably crush all second division teams anyway.
My motivation for this concept would be against tanking and to have more meaningful basketball games be played.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Well of course its just hypothetical
But my presumption is that DTS isn’t the only owner who would be content with that.
Perhaps it actually draws a new type of investor owner who buys up a D2 team and views it as a revenue source.
DTS seems like the outlier to me since the Clippers are the only (that I can think of) perpetually high revenue club that also perpetually sucks.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
hmmm
yeah, i think there are just too many financial issues for relegation to be a feasible option. ownership would never go for a system with built in financial penalties. and i think you’d need more teams to make it work. between the EPL (20) and the division below (24), you’ve got 44 teams (and an additional 48 below them!); having your proposed D1 and D2 still play each other negates most of the sting of being relegated, but with more teams fighting for promotion the lower division would still be very interesting. the idea of the top team (or maybe top 2? 4?) teams in D2 playing making a year-end tournament is, i think, a great idea in this scenario.
i’d really just prefer to see a true unweighted draft lottery for all teams not making the playoffs. everybody gets a realistic shot at #1, so why tank at all?
number of teams is irrelevant
it’s the local TV networks and their contracts with teams
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
i'm all over the place; let me clarify
if D1 and D2 teams do not play each other in the regular season and only the top 2 (or 4) D2 teams can make it to the D1 tournament, then having more teams in D2 would make it more competitive (and therefore watchable) while keeping D1 equally competitive and preserving some semblance of the current playoff format. i’m not talking about money in this scenario – financially, i think NBA relegation is probably unfeasible.
also
getting rid of conferences would be a great start. keep the divisions and have division champs guaranteed playoff berths, and let the next 10 best teams get in based purely on record. the conference idea is idiotic and it makes for uneven playoff series, especially with a 7 game format in the 1st round (another dumb idea)
Yes! There is no reason to keep Conferences (let alone divisions) in the modern NBA.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
from a competition standpoint yes
from a marketing standpoint, conferences is a way to have a built in marketing of players for different regions.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
I don't know how would that work
In European sports, relegation/promotion can work because there is a big financial difference.
The premier league only has one TV contract. That means the teams that get relegated don’t get the premier league TV money.
I don’t know how TV contracts and American sports would really work out, especially since local networks have control over local teams for the most part (save the new Lakers channel, YES, MSG, etc.)
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Ya, I mean, I’m certainly not an expert on relegation and European soccer by any means. You and JR are both pointing out the financial penalites which makes sense. The surely should be a penalty to drop down (or else, who cares) but it can’t be ruinous.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be interested in hearing more about this...
But right now I don’t understand it at all. Divisiion II operates at lower costs?
You mean in soccer? Yes, cheaper players and much smaller venues.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
IIRC division II
(you are probably thinking championship division, division 2 is the third banana )
Has a very limited TV contract. 1 or 2 games are shown during the week. The only time when championship teams have guaranteed TV time is the FA cup.
Remember, English TV is very limited. Bind that with the fact that there are so many teams in the same market (London has about 6 teams) it would be hard to split up TV air time. SO the only way to get that airtime, and the TV contract money is to win and get promoted.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
bizarre call of the night
The backcourt violation that was reversed. In the arena they announced he “didn’t have substantial possession in the front court, therefore there cannot be a backcourt violation”.
Someone who saw replays on TV … help me out. What really happened there?
Is this reviewable?
i agreed with the call
Wall’s momentum was carrying him into the backcourt on the inbounds play – one foot was in the frontcourt and the other was over the line. he had a hand on the ball, but he didn’t fully gather until he was completely in the backcourt. but it was very close.
I always thought it worked like out of bounds?
if a player has one foot out of bounds, but no control…it’s still out of bounds on the player.
nope!
possession is the key. if you’ve been watching the NCAAs, Syracuse got jobbed on a backcourt call that was almost an identical situation – the refs have since stated that they made a mistake on the play. it’s interesting though that there was some confusion on the part of the refs last night in regards to the rules – during their huddle, i did a bit of lip reading and the ref that blew the whistle clearly was unsure of the rule. you’d figure they’d know since it’s their job…
The jumbotron panned to EJ while the refs were huddling up
I was able to read his lips and he was ssaid “This is bullshit,” was dying of laughter!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
I was at the game and they showed the same shot of EJ on the Jumbotron as well
I could be wrong, but actually I think he said “This is f***ing bullshit.” Or maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on Mar 24, 2011 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
anybody else miss DJ's activity down low?
any word when he will be back?
+1
DJ was sorely missed guarding the basket last night. BG and Kaman are not the defensive presence that DJ is, not just in his ability to block a shot but to alter a shot or cause the opposing player to pull up for the J instead of finishing at the rim.
Yeah he's a pretty impressive defensive presence but
do you want him on the stripe when the game is on the line? Got to be tough for a coach to weigh all these options, he could swat away a winning shot or miss a crucial game deciding free throw. Guess that’s why they get paid so much. Even Blake gets pulled when it’s obvious they are going to intentionally foul.
true
VDN does pretty good situation subs, dont think thats much of an issue, plus DJ has been a pretty good 4th qrt free throw shooter. Just hope DJ is back to help on Bynum lame as Gasol.
by Elradiorebelde on Mar 24, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
When DJ is on a high and getting those buckets in the paint, and Blake is busting loose, dunking and kicking out, this team is one of the most entertaining NBA teams i’ve watched in years. Fill a couple of holes next season and this team will rival showtime.
The network or the Lakers back in the 1980's?
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
not even close lol
Magic, Worthy, F’n Cap!
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
He couldn't have made it a more exciting game!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
Thanks for putting that game into OT for us, VDN.
The Clippers should have closed this game out in regulation, and the only reason they didn’t was Vinny.
Mo gets a board off a bricked FT with 21.4 to go. VDN calls time out.
WHY!? The Wizards have no play they can run there. The Clips can run out the clock. The only option is to foul, so what is VDN trying to set up? He spends his timeout setting up a inbounds pass that is go awesome that the Clips then have to burn their final timeout to get the damn ball inbounded.
Foye hits 1 of 2, Wall parts the defense, and the Clips have 15 seconds and no timeouts to win the game in OT. Just the scenario that all coaches work all game long to have their teams in. Did anyone ask VDN what was going on in his head after the game?
by DoubleClutchClipperFan on Mar 24, 2011 11:39 AM PDT reply actions
Griffin got the board
calling TO did 2 things:
1. Make sure Griffin wasn’t put to the line
2. Make sure the young team was all on the same page
Now letting Wall waltz to the basket can be blamed on the players, and the players only
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
No...
1) Washington had a foul to give. Griffin wouldn’t have shot the FTs. Griffin also had easy passes to make to teammates in the unlikely case he got trapped.
2) They’re not young enough to screw up being fouled.
by DoubleClutchClipperFan on Mar 24, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
A similar timeout cost Texas a game in the NCAA. The kid calls a timeout and then they get a 5 second violation on the inbounds pass. What I don’t know is whether the player decided to call the timeout or whether the bench had instructed him to do so. In any event a dumb move on VDN’s part. As I was watching the game last night, I thought to myself that Flip S has probably a 4-5 points advantage over VDN.
i've always thought
VDN used timeouts a little too liberally. I suppose you only really notice poor timeout management when you don’t have any left and it hurts you. But still I seem to notice it a lot more with VDN than any other coach I watch.
What are the odds Blake and John Wall collude like D-Wade and LeBron and meet in LA in seven years.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Mar 24, 2011 11:44 AM PDT reply actions
I’ll say 0.01%
For one thing, they are in different draft classes, so they would have to start working on that exit strategy (Wall take fewer guaranteed years) pretty soon.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I would think it would be more likely that the clippers would trade for him
however even that is maybe a .5 % chance of happeningl
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
For sure.
Just fun to think about. I’m waiting for D-Will tho.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Mar 24, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
i don't know
it could be akward with deron being here and all.
SDSU vs UCONN, anyone watching that today?
CANT WAIT
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
while a entertaining game...
Not one that inspires a whole lot of confidence for future outlook. Just another game showing the need for a SF as the team relies on three guard lineups to compensate.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 12:18 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Moon needs to play more because 1) the other 2 SFs suck and 2) you may well want to sign him via bird rights going into next season anyway (when LAC inevitably fails to get somebody better.) If LAC doesn’t sign a SF otherwise and they re-sign Jordan, it’ll put you up near the cap anyway going forward, so you might as well use the bird rights and re-sign somebody more capable. I mean, Moon is no world-beater, but his athleticism alone warrants him getting more PT.
by Michael White on Mar 24, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
about Moon
Will he be able to retain his athleticism for long? He’s 31.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 12:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Moon won't be on the team next year
so Aminu definitely will have more value to the Clips next year :)
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Doesn't matter
We all know that we have a hole to fill in the SF position. The FO will be stupid, to say the least, if they do not go after AK-47 or Prince or a similar type of SF! Regardless, if the FO gets another SF the bench will be composed of Aminu and Gomes! I wonder who VDN will go with? I am betting on Gomes, since VDN seems to love the hell out of him! Sadly, Aminu has not develop as we all supposed he would during the early games of the season, when he was banging them from deep, I honestly don’t see him getting an opportunity to further develop with this team if we get a quality starter SF! I hope that we are chasing the playoffs next year and Aminu will get less burn (if any at all) if that is the case!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
Yeah, play Moon
If Olshey strikes out on a SF FA, I imagine he might use the cap space to sign a decent center, and then attempt to trade Kaman for our coveted wing. Whatever he does with free agency, he’ll have to act quickly. I wonder how much Dalembert will fetch.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Decent Center (while keeping DJ)?
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
decent backup to DJ, I assume
I kinda agree with this. I don’t think there is an answer to the hole at SF available via FA. I think it’s important for Kaman to close out this season strong, and maybe people will remember he was an all star last year and could potentially return another semi-star SF if the clips decide to trade him. Getting another ‘decent’ center would certainly make it easier to trade Kaman, unfortunately, getting a center to sign here might require trading Kaman first so they know there are minutes available.
Yeah, that's the idea
It would give us another option, if all SF options fall away. You’re right, though, that w/ Kaman still around, it might be a tougher sell. On the other hand, DJ’s future would be up in the air at that point, so the uncertainty would give us some give us some wiggle room.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
this doesn't make sense at all.
trade kaman for a sf…then sign dalembert?
how about this: keep kaman and dj, you need to big men to win in this league, and the 3-man rotation of blake, kaman, and dj is unstoppable.
and then figure out your sf situation. sign or trade for someone that fits, but don’t force anything. and maybe even wait a year with a better fa class and see if aminu gives you anything next season.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on Mar 24, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
You have my order turned around
It’s not a great plan, but I think it at least makes sense. 1st try to sign a SF, but if that doesn’t work, then sign a viable center, and then try to trade Kaman… In that order.
I don’t see our front court as that unstoppable. We need a starting-caliber SF in order to compete. With DJ + Griffin + Dalembert, we’d be strong enough up front.
In theory, it makes a bit of sense to wait another year if we have to, but I shudder to think how we’ll be bitching if that really happens. We’ve now traded Camby for cash and Baron for cap space. If it all goes unused for yet another season, players and fans alike will be howling. I think we need to be pushing for the playoffs next season.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
How about getting Corey back?
Trading Gomes for Corey in the offseason? Corey is pretty much non-existent behind Carlos Delfino! I am just saying!
Man I got them buzzin' buzzin' buzzin' buzzin, Like da-da-da-da-da-da-da -Mann
I understand where you're coming from, I'm not worried about making the playoffs next season
this team will definitely be in the playoffs. but as far as the sf situation goes, im more worried about getting the right than any guy. and maybe i overstated the unstoppable remark (got a little carried away), but championship teams needs size and with kaman and dj the team has size and have both the offense and defense covered.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on Mar 24, 2011 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
championship?
Pretty far away from that. The Clips need to decide whether they are willing to resign Kaman next year as well.
I don’t think the Clips are a playoff team next year unless they add a competent starting SF.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Mar 24, 2011 10:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This blog is boring
I’ma diehard Clipps fan but this blog is like a ghost town!! Ima be at the warriors blog rooting on the Clipps if you need me lol
Clippers own staples center!!!
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