Steve Nash Trade Scenarios: LA Clippers
Interesting.
about 1 year ago
lovinglosangeles
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I love the idea. Nash and STAT rode to the WCF with a worse supporting cast than what we have now.
But without the PHX trainers, I bet Nash becomes Kerry Kittles 2.0 in a Clipper uni. I’d still do it, though. Anyway to send Kaman for Gortat, as well??
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 25, 2011 3:04 PM PDT reply actions
Even at this age, I’d love to have Steve on this team. The Clippers would be scary.
by lovinglosangeles on Apr 25, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
There are only two aging veteran players I would take
that may have only a 2 year window left and both are Suns-Grant Hill and Steve Nash.
Knowing the respect the Suns have for Nash, I doubt if they would exile him to the Clippers to close his career though.
"I gotta have more cowbell and a small forward for The Clippers" Bruce Dickinson
It's not really exile. Blake is ALREADY better than Amar'e.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 25, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Staying in PHX is exile.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 25, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
eh
this is a toss up, as amare is less explosive but a superior foul shooter, jump shooter, and weak side blocker
Amare only shot 66% FTs his rookie year
And he couldn’t shoot outside worth a lick. It took Amare years and a bad knee to learn to shoot. Blake’s inconsistent, but he can already knock down jumpers. Blake is superior in every other facet.
he said blake's ALREADY better than amare
i beg to differ. i did not say anything about amare as a rookie? where blake is obviously better.
I would think the send him to a ready made contender
Lakers, Mavs (if Kidd retires), Magic (to appease Howard) or Heat. The Thunder, Bulls and Celtics don’t need him.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2011 6:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The relationship between the Suns and Nash is a business one. The Suns FANS have respect for Nash. They let him go once before, they can do it again if it means getting that rpived draft pick from Minny which would turn into Austin Rivers
So F yeah the Suns would part with Nash for something like that!!! But never for Mo Williams. Maybe, maaayyybeee, for Bledsoe.
Donald heckled ME!!!
by DonaldSterlingSucks on Apr 26, 2011 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
i want grant hill, not nash.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on Apr 25, 2011 4:50 PM PDT reply actions
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=42n348u
i probably would…
then sign a high-quality SF.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
No way, Jose.
Give up EJ for max 2 years of Nash??
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 25, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
no
give up Kaman for nash.
ej for gortat and childress.
mo becomes expendable, so he’s filler.
i’m not trying to pick a fight.
i’m just looking at this year’s lineup vs. nash, childress, griffin, jordan/gortat.
one cannot ignore how attractive nash+griffin make LA look to FAs.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
it's just 2 years
and nash is old, he could break any year, FA are not coming because of nash.
that's too much
wouldn’t even do gordon for nash.
of course not
ludicrous trade proposal
by dulciusXasperis on Apr 26, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
That would be a good trade for the Clippers
They will lose Kaman in a year anyways and Mo’s career on the Clips wouldn’t exceed 2 years anyways. Gortat and Childress are both in their mid 20s and have a lot of experience. This would make the Clips a playoff team right away.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 25, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm sure we both know this trade makes sense for both teams
so, it’s not going to happen.
but, since, we’re indulging…
the problem, then, is replacing Nash.
is Bledsoe the answer when Nash’s body finally breaks down.
if there’s no answer to PG beyond Nash, then the trade is primarily EJ for a two-year-Nash window, isn’t it?
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
by falconPUNCH on Apr 25, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Childress and Gortat are both good players. EJ is good but he’s not irreplaceable. You could sign a less high profile scorer like an Afflalo or JR Smith and get similar production.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 26, 2011 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
See here
The one thing EJ has on them is youth. Smith and Afflalo are probably at their peaks while EJ may have some more room to grow.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 26, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree they were similar players based on WS/48.
Seems to me, the comparison boils down to which stats to emphasize. Afflalo was the most efficient shooter of the three. EJ provided the most scoring and assists and subsequently had the higher PER. Smith is also a very good shooter and provides more rebounding.
To me, the difficulty in comparing EJ to a player like Afflalo is accounting for Afflalo’s much lower Usage. And the difference in defense between Smith and EJ is also difficult to quantify. I don’t see that JR Smith and Afflalo really generate similar production to each other, much less EJ.
I wasn't looking at WS
I was looking at their various strength and weaknesses and they all have some edge over the others and some flaws as well. And while EJ will probably be able to command a 10-12 million dollar deal (something similar to what Kevin Martin has) both Afflalo and Smith will make less because they don’t have the edge in the most glamorous stat of all which is points.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
The only problem is
You could probably do this without having to include EJ, but excluding Childress (yes, Childress > Gomes, but EJ > Childress).
Why not Mo, Aminu, Kaman for Nash, Gortat (or Nash, Lopez, if Gortat is too expensive—-IMO, I think the dropoff from Gortat to Lopez is less than the dropoff from EJ to Childress)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Wrong there
Gortat is very very good. He’s better than Kaman. Check out his numbers from Feb-April. 15 points, 10 rebounds, 1.5 blocks on 55%+ fg shooting.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 26, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of Gortat
a great example of a guy who produces at the same rate per 36 when playing 12-14 mpg to starting and playing 30+ mpg.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 26, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Gortat is good
And his talent was obvious as a backup. Not a surprise.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on Apr 27, 2011 6:25 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh is that it?
I thought it was because Gortat was feasting on back up bigs and playing garbage time thus hence per 36 stats are totally inaccurate. Do you ever keep track of what side of a discussion you are on?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call anything anyone does in 14 MPG "feasting".
I’d say the greater indicator was/is Gortat’s size, and the fact he was coveted around the league (particularly DAL).
I might be mistaken, but I believe he had some solid games in the 09/10 playoffs.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 27, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I was being sarcastic
Jax says 12-14 minutes makes some guys stats useless (Childress) but then says they are useful when it suits him (Gortat).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you that Gortat is better than Kaman.
But “Check out his numbers from Feb-April. 15 points, 10 rebounds, 1.5 blocks on 55%+ fg shooting.” This is the Steve Nash Effect in full force. Particularly when Gortat became his primary PnR partner. Nash makes studs out of everyone he plays with: Shawn Marion, Tim Thomas, Grant Hill, Jared Dudley, Channing Frye, etc.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 26, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
What the hell is wrong with Hakim Warrick? He frustrates me.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
He's still at his career numbers
per 36. He’s a good bench player to have even if he’s a Darius Miles type player.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I just meant from a Nash-improvement standpoint
I’ve always stood by that concept, that point guards like Steve Nash and Chris Paul make their teammates better, mainly because experience has taught me that playing with Allen Iversons makes me play like ass, while playing with John Stocktons makes me play like some freaky efficient swingman. In these cases, I’m not playing well because I don’t suck, I’m playing well because my point guard is manipulating the defense into giving me easy buckets.
So… when there’s evidence in conflict with my experiences, as silly as it sounds, it bugs me hahaha…
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Its not the Nash effect
certainly playing with Nash should have minimal effect on his big man stats. And his FG% was more or less the same as his career %. The real benefit of playing was Nash was Nash is smart enough to know that Gortat is a efficient scorer so he gets him more shot attempts. A dumb PG would probably pass to the inefficient scorer.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Apr 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I only knew Gortat from a fantasy perspective
i.e. per-minute was not noticed (on that note, they should throw that stat into fantasy bball… it would separate the men from the boys). Fortunately, most GMs only appear to see things from that perspective too, and they may not realize Gortat is better than Kaman.
I do like Lopez’s defense almost as much as Gortat’s, though. They both have super quick feet for big men.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Interesting
Phoenix is in a pickle. It’s hard to say what they should do. A lot of the scenarios on the list involve Phoenix buying out Nash so that he can go to a contender, and I’m not sure why that works for them, as they get no value back, other than cap flexibility. At the same time other teams don’t want to give up established players. If I’m Portland, for instance, the Miller-Batum scenario here doesn’t work. Miller, as much as I dislike him (intensely), is not a defensive liability like Nash, while Batum is a clear-cut starter and a part of their future. It would be two starters to get the aged Steve Nash for a couple of years.
Seems like they would want to get a combination of a fill-in player (like Mo Williams) and a young prospect (like AFA). I think that Phoenix would want a pick too, and that is what would make the price too high.
As far as a Nash destination is concerned, I think the Clippers, with Blake, Gordon and DJ would be a nice fit. It would be even better if the Clips could make a deal for Nash and sign Grant Hill. If they gave up AFA they would be thin at SF and not really ready for the future, but a DJ-BG-GHill-Gordon-SNash team would be ready to compete with anybody. The lack of playoff experience, offset by Nash and Hill, would hurt in the later rounds.
But it’s pretty obvious that both Nash and Hill would get hurt very quickly if they were to become Clippers.
Wallace is or should be the entrenched starter in POR. It's what makes me think a Kaman for Camby/Batum swap is possible.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Apr 25, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The Bobcats originally tried to get Batum for Wallace, too, but Portland wouldn't budge
Portland is probably waiting on the Clippers to sell them Kaman mid-season just like Camby. They’ve done well by lowballing teams with motivations other than winning.
would love to trade for Nash
If only we had a young stud like Marco Jaric to use as a trade chip. Hell, Phoenix might even through in a conditional future first round pick!
If the Clippers traded for Nash, we'd need their training staff to be included in the deal.
I wouldn’t trust Powell with Nash’s back.
Proud member of Club FTR
I'm not sure how much we pay Powell
or how a typical training staff in general is paid. But if the Clippers were somehow able to get Nash, the Clippers should just leave a roster spot or 2 open; take that extra million or saved and just SPLURGE and hire every medical big name possible in the LA-area if not California area. Hire the entire UCLA medical staff if necessary to keep the team healthy.
Nash + Clipper core healthy = Oklahoma has nothing on us.
I think Nash would bring in his own philosophies and remedies
At this point in his career, I doubt he’s still having other people tell him how to handle his back (see: Bird, Larry).
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
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