PG Albatross-still glad he is gone
by bewilder on May 19, 2011 12:41 AM PDT
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1. Some PG salaries for 2011-2012:
Deron Williams $16,359,805; Chris Paul $16,359,805; Baron Davis $13,950,000; Mo Williams $8,500,000; Steve Nash $11,689,062; Kyrie Irving if #1 pick: approx. $5,580,030; John Wall $5,580,030; Rajon Rondo $10,000,000; Derrick Rose $6,993,707; Jason Kidd $8,500,000; Steph Curry $3,117,120; Andre Miller $7,807,728; Kyle Lowry $5,750,000; Russell Westbrook $5,082,415; Chauncey Billups $14,200,000; Devin Harris $9,319,000; Raymond Felton $7,500,000; Darren Collison $1,455,960; Mike Conley $6,500,000.
2. 2012 superstar discount salary to play with your buddies: LeBron $16,022,500; Chris Bosh $16,022,500; Dwyane Wade $15,512,000.
3. Non-PG player one could employ in 2012 for less than Barons salary (non-rookie contract): Kevin Durant, Andre Iguodala, Al Horford, Josh Smith, Danny Granger, Ray Allen, Caron Butler, Tyson Chandler, Monta Ellis, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bogut, David West, Gerald Wallace, LaMarcus Aldridge, Manu Ginobili, Paul Milsap, Carlos Boozer, Joakim Noah, Jason Terry, Nene, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola. Probably Marc Gasol (restricted free agent, last year paid $7,500,000).
<!--EndFragment-->My take (which means nothing other than it can be discussed here): MoWill=good production for his non-rookie contract salary. Frees up more $ to shore up other positions & keep/add stars (Blake, Gordon, future free agent 1 & 2) ala Fakers with having semi-productive/capable, low salary D.Fish all these years allowing them to pay Kobe, Pau, Bynum, Odom.
Baron's contract=OMG, WTF. Glad we don't have his AND Kyrie Irving's contract for next several years. People who frown on the 2011 #1 pick trade: so you now want to be paying $19,530,030 for our PG position? Actually 21+ million with a newly alienated Eric Bledsoe. Think Kyrie will be that good? As many have pointed out, the ping pong balls would have bounced differently had we kept the pick for a myriad of reasons anyways-mainly science.
People who think the Clips won't add a good SF and another star (hopefully superstar) who want to join Blake and EJ in LA are living in 1999 like the stupid "it's the Clippers" TV commentators. It's ignorant to the think that the Donald would rather "save money" than to maximize profits from Blake, have a popular winning team here, be jocked by the city of LA, and from that make crazy $$ on a HUGE new TV contract.Salaries from hoopshype.com
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I like your point at the end
It bothers me when other people say “it’s the stupid Clippers again,”
but it really pisses me off to hear that from Clipper fans. Have we learned nothing from the last couple of years. I think our situation is almost too good that the naysayers are just in denial.
We have the best rising star in the league who will probably eventually be the best player in the league (perennial MVP consideration without a doubt starting as early as next season).
We have a great second option in Eric Gordon who is a star in his own right and will probably be a regular at All-Star games.
We have a 2 Centers. I could end here because that’s an argument in it’s own, when most teams have to scrap together a Center. But 1 is a former All-Star and probably one of the best scoring big men in the game, and the other is a shot-blocking machine and has the potential to be the best defensive Center not named Dwight in the league.
Add to the fact that there are 2 other young guns on the roster who would probably be lottery picks this year and have the potential to be very good as well.
Plus the Minnesota pick that no matter where in the lottery it falls will probably be better than what Kyrie Irving can provide us.
I don’t feel so unlucky anymore being a Clipper fan.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on May 19, 2011 1:44 AM PDT reply actions
I cant agree more...
The post and your comment is exactly how we should all view our current status. We’re human so initially I had a WTF moment when I saw the final draft order too, but once logic sunk in, I was even happier at the turn of events, as I was reminded where we currently are as a team…in a better position than we would have been with the #1 pick and Baron….furthermore, as repeated countless times already, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE #1 PICK IF WE WOULD HAVE KEPT BARON.
by clippersince94 on May 19, 2011 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions
No one knows
the odds would likely be the same. The Clips could win one or lose one more game and still have the 8th worst record in the league. The point really is the odds of something like this happening were significant (2.8% 1st overall and 10% in top 3). Instead of a EJ, Irving, DJ, Griffin and possibly Aminu lineup for the next 10 years we still have a long-term question marks at PG (unless you believe Bledsoe can become a real PG) and of course SF.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Your right...
Should have said, "Keeping Baron does not mean we would have ended up with the same #1 pick. The possibility would be there, but not the guarantee of the same actual results.
The rest is really based on a matter of opinion. I’m not going to lie, I’m really drinking the Bledsoe kool-aid, could be wrong about him, but love his potential and expect some really big things from him. Not a big Mo fan at all, but like what the move did for us obviously from a monetary standpoint…..with the hope(fingers cross) we do the right thing with the extra money. But definitely respect and understand where your coming from.
by clippersince94 on May 19, 2011 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
" The point really is the odds of something like this happening were significant (2.8% 1st overall and 10% in top 3)."
How is a 2.8% chance or even 10%, significant??
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 19, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you,
I don’t see it being significant at all. But that’s based on how I view Irving and Bledsoe’s potential. However, not trying to put words in ClipperChuck’s mouth, but those percentages might be significant enough to him based on how he feel’s about Irving’s ability and Bledsoe’s potential or lack there off. For example, if you told me last year we had a 10% chance at landing Lebron, that % is significant enough to justify clearing the needed cap space for him. Tell me a 10% chance for Rudy Gay, not nearly as significant. Not saying he sees Irving as Lebron and Bledsoe as Gay, but you see where I’m going with it. But have to agree, to view 2.8% and 10% as significant is really saying how high you are on Irving and I can respect that, but just can’t see it myself.
by clippersince94 on May 19, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
2.8% is very significant
if a bank charged you a 2.8% transaction fee you’d care. If you had a 2.8% chance of cancer you would go see a doctor. If there was a 2.8% chance of you getting hit by a truck today you’d tried to stay indoors. The fact that in the last 18 years no less than the Magic (Chris Webber), Bulls (Derrick Rose) and Clippers (Kyrie Irving?) have gone from the 8th slot or later and won the lottery. The doesn’t even factor in all the teams that moved up into the top 3. Like I said its not as if you are trying to win the ACTUAL lottery, a 1 in 35.7 chance is very real.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Those are terrible metaphors
Yes, if the downside of making the Baron trade was possible DEATH, of course you would avoid it. That is just not the case here.
Your other metaphor is more interesing: the bank 2.8% example. Would you be regret paying a 2.8% fee if you had a reasonable chance to make 10% on the money you withdrew? That’s more like it. This is similar to the Clippers situation: they gave up a 2.8% chance of improving their team for a increase in cap space which they felt had a 10% (or greater) chance of improving their team. That was the risk they were willing to take. But there’s a significant potential upside. So in your metaphor, 2.8% is meaningful (I hesitate to call it significant) yet worth considering in a risk/reward scenario.
by Thretch on May 19, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well you aren't applying it correctly
2.8 is the chance of winning the lottery, 10% chance of being top 3, whatever you want % chance of trading the 8th-10th pick after the lottery for a player or chance of the player drafted of improving your team. So the draft pick had a much greater chance than 2.8 of helping the Clippers improve.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
But the point is the same
They had a greater % chance of improving through expanding cap space than through the draft. Whether or not you agree with Neil’s numbers, that was their decision point.
and to the bank fee
as anyone who has ever had a mortgage can attest to… paying a 2.8% fee (whether its discount points or closing costs) is pretty significant. Some would say substantial.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Still not a good metaphor then
You are talking about giving up something (2.8% of your money) with no consideration. In the Clipper example there was consideration. Obviously if you are giving up 2.8% of something getting nothing in return you wouldn’t do it. That’s not the case.
If I had to pay a 2.8% fee on my mortgage, but it’s in exchange for pulling out an additional $100,000 in cash for which I can make 6% return … you’d have to think about it.
no such thing
as a guaranteed return in free agency. The Clips had max cap space last summer and ended up with Foye and Gomes. What guarantee is there they do better this time (and with less money). What advantage was there to making this trade in February under cloudy conditions than Tuesday? Its ridiculous to assume that the Clips had no significant chance of winning the lottery and yet immediately assume the Clips have a chance of signing a good SF for a good price.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
This was the quote from the FO
I’m just simply restating what professionals who have more knowledge than we do on this topic said: That they felt there was a higher % chance of improving from FA than from Draft.
Sounds reasonable.
Keep to the point
You said 2.8% is significant because if there was a 2.8% chance of DEATH, you’d avoid the trade. Fact is, there is not a 2.8% chance of death. And death is a monumentally more dire downside outcome of doing the trade. Your criteria for “significance” is not sound, I just don’t believe you’ve supported the notion that 2.8% is significant.
and the definition of significant
varies. Maybe a statistician can chime in here but it can be as high as 10% but as low as .01%. A 10% chance of it being a top 3 pick was definitely significant by the standard used to judge statistical significance.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever
“Maybe it’s significant, maybe it’s not”. Whatever, it was probably never worth positng that it was “significant” in the first place.
actually it was
I pointed this out over 3 months ago and people dismissed the chance of this happening. It has now happened 3+ times in the last 18 lotteries. This was no miracle.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
20/20 hindsight
If they traded their #8 lottery position for a #4 lottery position; and the #8 position netted the #1 pick … that is only a bad deal in hindsight.
Yes, a mid lottery position can win it all … but you don’t know which one … #7, #9, #6. There’s quite a few Milwaukee and Indiana teams right now sitting at #8 draft after a #7 lottery. So there’s plenty more cases where it just doesn’t happen
Of course you don't
but you have to factor in that it can happen and its not that big of a long shot.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
This is like saying
All the other teams in the league should be p.o.‘d because they didn’t try to acquire the Clips magical #8 pick.
“It’s not that big of a long shot”: Try telling that to Golden State, Indiana, Milwaukee, Detroit, Sacramento ….
If you average out the expected value of all the teams’ chances, it’s still a long shot
All of them kept their picks
instead of salary dumping. They obviously respect the value of a lottery pick.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
in scientific studies
Level of statistical significance is typically set to mean that there is a 95% chance what you found will happen again when study repeated.
You are saying the complete opposite a 2.8% chance if extremely insignificant.
That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen
You really reach to rip the Clips. So sad.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Coming from you
thats a compliment. I would be worried if you agreed with me since you are wrong about 95% of the time. Let me know when you are right about something, I like a good surprise.
Here’s what Hollinger said immediately after the trade.
I’ve always wondered what the cash price of a lottery pick was. In this case, it seems to be about $12 million — the difference in what’s owed over the next two years between Davis and Williams. Cleveland effectively paid the Clippers that amount for their first-round pick, which is completely unprotected in the 2011 draft and could end up being first. In fact, it’s possible the Cavs will have the first two picks in the draft, which certainly could accelerate the post-LeBron rebuilding. Give a tip of the hat to Cavs owner Dan Gilbert for agreeing to use his checkbook to speed up the process.
In the short term, this trade may make Cleveland even worse. Although Davis is the more talented of the two players, Williams played fairly hard for a miserable Cleveland team, and nobody expects Davis to do the same, especially because he’s reunited with coach Byron Scott. (The two clashed in New Orleans.) Look for Cleveland to deal him again at the first available opportunity.
Capwise, however, the Cavs’ logic is airtight. Cleveland wasn’t going to have cap space in the summer of 2011 no matter what; and even with Davis’ fat contract on the books, it’ll still have plenty of space in the summer of 2012.
So well done Olshey Jax. You managed to get it wrong again.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
well 95% wrong make 5% of the time correct
and since you think 2.8 is significant i can’t only imagine what 5% is to you.
2.8% is a live round
and 10% chance of being top 3 is very significant. But good job guys, hope the cap space (if it even comes into play) was worth it.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 20, 2011 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Hollinger's argument has nothing to do with the Clippers
This trade may have been good for cleveland too. Hats off to them. That has nothing to do with rather the trade is beneficial for the Clippers.
I guess that’s your argument – the trade helped out Cleveland so it just must have hurt the Clippers. Um, ok
Again, all you do is say whatever you can to rip the Clips and their FO. We get you.
Duly noted that you’re a Hollinger fan though.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
and we get you
you are a effing idiot. Go to a CN event, seriously.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 20, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Who is "we" you and your couch ?
Stop trying to defend nonsensical opinions at every turn and either engage reasonably or just . . . Stop.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on May 21, 2011 7:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I've been to events
people think you are a joke. I engage reasonably with everyone but you since you’re an idiot incapable of holding a rational discussion.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 21, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm glad Baron is gone too
We don’t have any bad contracts on our books now. Ok, a couple that we could do without probably in Foye and Gomes but nothing really holding us back.
We’ve got some great young talent, some cap space, a good trade chip in Kaman (if we decide to use him).
That’s all nice but the crux of the matter is filling that SF spot. If the ball club go out and get a good piece, I’ll feel a whole lot happier. If they try to give it the old “we tried but we going to go with another mediocre veteran and run with what we have” I’m going to start pulling my hair out again!
I really like the idea of Kaman for Iggy. I’d miss Kaman sure cos on his day he’s a great skilled big man but he just doesn’t play enough for my liking. Bring Iggy in, and then make a run for Nene. If not, resign DeAndre and bring in some backup Centre such as Nazr as an extra body.
I can image Nene, Griffin, Iguodala, Gordon, Williams playing nicely together. A good inside/outside threat with some good defenders there too.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
Clips don't have the cap space to pursue Nene
who would command upwards of 10 million + a year. That is unless they figure out away to trade Gomes and Foye without taking any salary back (ain’t happening).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure
Just checked salaries (maybe should have done that before!).
Denver has some nice pieces though. If they are worried at losing Nene elsewhere (I think someone will give him a big offer), then maybe we could look at moving Kaman for Felton, Chandler and Koufos (as a backup piece and an expiring next year).
We’d address the SF position, have a nice guard rotation (albeit a bit small) of EJ, Mo, Bledsoe and Felton with EJ and Felton starting and Mo and Bledsoe coming off the bench. Leaves us a bit thin at the 5 though.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
I really wanted to pick this all apart
but I love the optimism in the end. I was thinking EJ would evolve to a Wade like SG, then we wouldn’t need a pure PG, because Mo as he has been isn’t the answer.
gordon's handle
need lots of work even before the wrist injury, it was visible he did not have the best dribbling skills…i think wade has never had that issue…
"Blessed is the person who is too busy to worry in the daytime
and too sleepy to worry at night."
Author Unknown
by Lawler's Law on May 19, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Gordon will never be a poorman's version of DWade
if you ain’t got handles going into your 4th year, you ain’t going to have them.
Gordon’s injuries in the paint are a result of Gordon not being able to read defenses. He doesn’t have any moves aside from a b-line to the basket. Dwade can maneuver throw traffic, Gordon can’t.
EJ can shoot way better from 3 and FT line than wade, so they have different games. Wade can score 25-30 reliably though and Gordon 20-25 now reliably. I could see with more shots Gordon could score even more, but never be as good as Wade but a hell of a #2 guy.
Agree...
But the comment posed was wanting EJ to become the next Wade. In terms of styles, there is no way Gordon will play the same style or impact a game the way he does.
Gordon is a 3 pt specialist that can penetrate in a straight line. He doesn’t have the handles to do what Wade does. Also, Gordon isn’t a very efficient mid-range scorer. Wade can hit that shot.
2 totally different players with 2 totally different styles.
look i am completly pro trading baron
I was glad at the trade, glad that we had the cap flexibility to trade or sign a SF this offseason and the lottery hasn’t change that idea, but let’s not overreact either, i would gladly take irving salary.
looking beyond the salary, we would be taking on yet another inexperienced kid. i think it’s time to get this group a vet or 2. look at what battier did for memphis. look what cassell did for us even. our window is about to open.
agree there
but irving is a talented kid and i would have him instead of mo, still there was only a 2% chance of getting him when the trade occur. I play poker and if i have a 2% chance on getting the winning hand i fold, if the card i needed appear i stil made the right choice. I agree in that i am still glad Baron contract is gone but i would gladly have Irving.
i think it’s time to get this group a vet or 2. look at what battier did for memphis. look what cassell did for us even. our window is about to open.
Ah, but Cassell came to a veteran team ready to win, they just needed a general.
And Battier is just a complimentary piece to yet another veteran team…When it comes to the core players.
Bringing in a Battier or a Cassell to this team doesn’t guarantee we have the same fate.
It will still and always will be a dumb trade
How great Irving becomes will determine how much of an historic fail it will be over time.
no it won't
The Irving factor should be irrelevant, if we keep Baron and the pick, we end with a different postiton in the lottery and Detroit likely wins it.
if we keep Baron and the pick, we end with a different postiton in the lottery and Detroit likely wins it.
Does it really? based on what? Not trying to sound rude but no one has been able to answer that.
If the trade isn’t made, what record do you actually think we’d ended up with? Gordon was still going to miss the same amount of games. Kaman was coming back. Gomes shut it down. Foye was adjusting to his new role.
How much more wins with Baron do you think we would have netted, or how many more losses? Do you think it was enough to move our position? And if it was, where would we have ended up in the lottery?
Personally, I think there might have been a game or differential, either way. I’m not sure that would have impacted our seeding.
JMHO
i think we easily lose more than 2 games
i think we play bledsoe and aminu much more, resulting in detroit finishing with a better record, we went 11-11 with Mo if i am not mistaken, i believe we will have tank it with baron and the pick. I didn’t find you rude by the way.
Too bad about BD
I remember being so excited when we got him, and how good he looked in preseason before year 1. His first game as a Clipper was also as impressive as all get out, probably about as good and hard as i’ve seen someone play in a Clipper uni. But quickly realized he was overmatched, and began not to care. Rumors had it he would play games high once in a while, and I believe it. That was his personality, a baller-celebrity that picked his spots in giving max effort.
But without those difficult years, we don’t get Blake Griffin. No doubt, mistakes were made last summer, but our young guys dug in and learned how to win on their own. Now the pressure’s on the FO. Biggest concern is that they try to force something this summer, when waiting 6-12 months might be the best option. We shall see.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
that scares me
i think this might make them do something dumb this summer when as you say we may be better off waiting 6-12 months.
Right
That lottery result didn’t help. Hopefully Olshey can stay the course.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
What course
to run the team into the ground? Look at the flexibility and assets he had since taking over and what has he turned them into? Really? Even if they somehow signed Kirilenko… with max cap space and a lottery pick you end up with Kirilenko, Ryan Gomes and Randy Foye when its all said and done?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
only few of us see this
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Randy Foye for $4 million is good value. Go look at Luke Walton if you want to see someone who is stealing money. Or Gomes, Baron, even Chauncey Billups.
Randy Foye for 4 million
is not good value. 4 million should at least get serviceable player, Randy Foye makes teams lose.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
As a back of the rotation player logging 10-12 MPG, he's probably not making the team win or lose
That’s what he should be next season assuming the other guards stay healthy. He may be overpaid for that role, but not by that much. He may even become a useful expiring contract in trade. I look at him as a better version of Rasual Butler.
when you have injury prone players playingthe 1 and 2
Randy Foye can lead to losing
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
In that case injuries would be the cause of the losing
No argument that the Clippers need EJ and Mo to stay healthy to win games. Certainly there are better players earning Foye money, but not many veteran backup guards earning that kind of money are good enough to make up for the loss of the starters.
injuries should never be an excuse
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Agreed - apparently Randy Foye is the key to the Clippers' woes
I wonder how much MDSr is paying CC to harass us.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
He indirectly is
wasted cap space has brought this entire sequence of events upon the Clips. If they don’t need to clear cap space then they don’t need to trade the pick. Pretty simple stuff.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 20, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasted cap space? Ok chuckles
The team needs to get out of the hole DTS created and previous coaches and gms perpetuated. It takes a long time to right the ship this particular one at least. You act like they are like any other NBA team. They are not. Now that they have had BG for a year and more competent coach and FO they should have a better chance to land better players. Hopefully that happens this summer.
As I said at least they didn’t do what you constantly said they should and blow their wad on mediocre players like Outlaw before they knew what they had. You’re like a chicken with its head cut off.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on May 21, 2011 7:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Gotta agree with this statement
The team needs to get out of the hole DTS created and previous coaches and gms perpetuated. It takes a long time to right the ship this particular one at least.
No miracles overnight. I’ve got to admit its getting better, its getting better all the time.
no you are wrong
the team was completely stripped down for the run for LBJ
Even if you think all the past contracts acquired were a mistake, take a look at this:
Zbo and Camby were traded away. Shedding around 23 million dollars.
The more you post the more it seems you are a newer fan. Which is fine with me, but stick to topics regarding the Clips post 2010-2011
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
Making up stuff as usual
How is VDN a more competent coach than MDSr?
How is Olshey a more competent GM than MDSr?
How are the Clips better positioned to sign FAs this summer with a more shallow FA pool, the pending lockout and less cap space?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 21, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not worth arguing with you
You don’t appear to understand xs and os so discussing MDSr’s inability to coach is a waste of time. Look at the record though – that should tell you something.
MDSr’s record as GM is very poor – he never put together teams that won consistently – well, one year out of 7
I’ve explained the positioning issue and the others numerous times. Don’t be lazy – just do a search.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
still waiting for you to breakdown some plays for us. Its only been about 4 months.
MDSr is actually respected for his play calling. In fact he’s criticized for micro-managing more than anything. And we’ve gone over this, he’s very successful for a Clippers Head Coach.
He drafted EJ and DJ which is a pretty good haul (no brownie points for picking BG since anyone could do that). He also signed the biggest FA in Clippers history, traded essentially nothing for Zach Randolph and Marcus Camby. He also got DTS to spend enough to actually have the MLE. Pretty small stuff for other clubs but it was a milestone for the Clips.
Again, explain how were VDN and Olshey upgrades again?
Back in February of 2010 things looked pretty good. Clips had all their draft picks including the Minnesota pick and max cap space. They have thrown away a lottery pick since and wasted the majority of that cap space on useless guys like Gomes and Foye.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 25, 2011 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions
A bad miss
but EJ and DJ in 2008 was a great draft right? No one picks the winner every time.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 26, 2011 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll give credit where credit is due
DJ was a great pick in the 2nd round. Definitely a steal. I just looked up mocks from ’08 and NBA.com had DJ as a lotto pick. Not sure how he slipped out of the 1st round at all.
As for EJ, I would have picked him 3 at the time. Rose and Beas were the class of the draft. I thought EJ had Mayo by a bit bc he could shoot. Really glad he fell to 7.
Still glad he is gone though, and like I said, the Korelev disaster cancels out any good for me.
Us means you - just please go away
As I said, there’s no need to argue with you, the anti-Clipper.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You said you would break down plays for us
I’m sure I’m not the only one who would benefit from a master tactician such as yourself. Please do enlighten us on the intricacies of an NBA offense.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 26, 2011 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm guessing $1 / post
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Cool
I’ll invoice for you the 10k tomorrow. No personal checks please, if your credit is anything like your knowledge of basketball then it’s going to bounce off Eric Gordon’s foot.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 25, 2011 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions
"Biggest concern is that they try to force something this summer, when waiting 6-12 months might be the best option."
Completely agree. Wouldn’t want the FO to force anything. There aren’t that many great options especially via trade.
I rather keep Kaman & sign Prince
than lose him to get Iggy, when a better version of Iggy will be avail in next years draft.
"The perception here in Los Angeles has always been that the Lakers find a way to win games and the Clippers find a way to lose…I recognize it, but I'm not going to accept it," Griffin said. "I'm not going to say, 'Oh, that's fine."
by TheEricGordonShow on May 19, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
The Thing About Baron...
is that you never know what you are going to get. Don’t get me wrong, when Baron was on, he was GREAT! I was hig biggest fan. The thing is, he was off so much. Plus, the guy was injured all the time. With Williams, although not as flashy and spectacular, you know what he brings every night. I think management got sick and tired of all the Baron antics. DTS even mocked him openly from the sidelines during games asking him why he shots so much. GOOD RIDDENS!
Blake, Gordon, Williams, DJ and a new 2010-11 SF- Go Clippers!!!
When we win the NBA Championship, it will be that much sweeter!
Mo
was actually injured more than Baron the last 3 years and missed more games due to injury than Baron last year. It’s bias towards Davis to think of Mo as more durable than Baron.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Its not just the durability
It feels like BD is more prone to ups and downs of attitude. He drove his Warriors to the playoffs. Great. He showed up to training camp unprepared. Boo. Major Boo. Then he got injured because he had not prepared.
I thank Baron for getting his attitude together and performing so that a team was convinced to take him on. Even if the cost was a first round draft pick.
Attitude?
Mo contemplated retiring because Lebron left. No one is saying Baron’s perfect but its incredible to me the double standard being applied to Baron and Mo.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 21, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Mo is also prone to ups and downs.
Mo almost had a breakdown when his bread and butter left him. He came into camp out of shape and had to deal with a groin pull as a result of letting himself go. Don’t know about you, but that is weak. As a result, a player like Sessions who isn’t a point, outplayed him.
Mo is not an upgrade, physically or mentally.
You know more about Mo than I do
After seeing him go into next season, who knows, I may be tired of him too in a few months.
I never felt comfortable with BD, never knowing how he was going to perform. So I am glad BD is gone.
BD is not worth the cash
He’s getting older, can’t play D and the team needed to get the cap space. And of course he showed up out of shape. That alone is readon to ditch the guy.
Good trade.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Becuase Mo can play defense?
Mo has to be the worst defensive PG in the league. My god, he can’t guard fast or slow, big or small guards. Talk about matador defense.
by clipper*joe on May 19, 2011 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Mo doesn't cost $17M my man
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Look nothing personal about Baron but........
He brought that on himself for not coming prepared to play and i agree with Bewilder on
his points here. We need people like Blake who puts in the time to not only make himself
better but his team. We need a dedicated point guard and obviously that wasn’t Baron.
"we need a dedicated point guard"
We don’t have a point guard on this team. Mo, EBled, Foye, and EJ are not point guards. The closest thing we have to a point is Warren and VDN won’t play him.
Basically comes down to...
Can’t form a team around a player producing poorly to mediocre and being paid 85% of LeBron, DWill, CP3, Wade HOF superstar salary.
ClipperChuck, Bacek we have to wait and see how Kyrie Irving turns out, have to add a GOOD or GREAT free agent or two this or next year, or you are right. Clipper fail again. We have never had 1 guy, much less 2 as talented as Gordon and Blake (aside from 1 year of Brand) to build with, so I think/hope the mojo is changing.
You also...
can’t form a team around crappy players like Foye and Gomes. And the Clips MAYBE have enough cap space for one good FA, definitely not 2. And EJ is nowhere as good as Brand was all those years. It’s tragic any basketball fan would really think that.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
we are not making a team around crappy players
gomes and foye are not the cornerstones of the franchis. Griffin and Gordon are.
Gomes and Foye
are the reason there was a supposed need for cap space to sign a SF. If the FO took care of business last off-season then there would be no reason to clear cap space.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
In Chuckles' mind they are the whole team.
The FO has to deal with the prior reputation. BG here this year has really helped things. The FO needs to follow through this summer. At least they didn’t blow the wad on fourth stringer Childress or on Outlaw like some advocated.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Idiot
so they blow their wad on useless players like Foye and Gomes. Childress was at least good in his minutes, Gomes and Foye are terrible and eat up plenty of cap space.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 19, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
There you go again
They didn’t blow their wad on Foye and Gomes. You seem so bitter – Olshey must have run over your cat or something.
And if you think J Chill was worth the money or that his 5 min / game is somehow automatically projected out you’re dumber than you seem (and believe me, that’s a very low bar). If J Chill was better given his relatively exorbitant salary he would have played.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You're a moron
Michael White had a good long detailed post about this already. It’s your problem you can’t understand basic math.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 20, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm a moron but your hero J Chill
Didnt wan to come here and was too expensive and ended up sucking.
What happened to your other player Outlaw?
You are like an anti – Clipper broken record. They take away your season tix and we all suffer.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on May 21, 2011 7:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
LOL
Well you are right for once, you are a moron.
J Chill didn’t end up sucking, again see Michael White’s post. Or John R or SP’s preview against the Suns. If you want to see sucking go look over Ryan Gomes numbers.
I never wanted out. I didn’t like the Camby trade from the beginning.
And who gets Clipper season tickets taken away? Do you ever think anything through?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 21, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Oops
wanted Outlaw. Freudian slip I suppose.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 21, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
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