Great Expectations
I need to vent. I've been holding in my rage concerning this Cleveland draft pick thing for far too long now. Most of us citizens were frustrated on the night of the Baron-Mo trade, and I think it's fair to say that most of us are frustrated now. Perhaps it's beyond frustration. Maybe, just maybe, it's torches and pitchforks time, if you know what I mean. You do. So let's talk Clippers and this draft pick, just one more time, for the sake of nausea. And let's counter ClipNation's awful homer-ism with some heaping helpings of healthy realism.
I think most of us agree that Baron-for-Mo was an awful idea. But, I've heard arguments from the other side: Baron is always injured, yada, yada. Well, that's been debunked already; a more capable citizen can provide for you Mo Williams' injury history, proof that he's no better than Baron at staying healthy. Now, I say that a more capable citizen can provide these injury numbers because I'm not a big numbers guy; I don't like stats and facts; I'm more of a "feelings" guy, trusting the 'ole gut... but more on that later.
Mo and Baron break even on health, but elsewhere, Baron reigns supreme over the former King's former sidekick (just typing "Mo" is much more efficient, isn't it?). Let's see: Defense, Baron, check, and it's not even close. Shootin-... well, let's just stop after defense because I can really sum up this whole comparison rather quickly: I feeeeeel like Baron is a better basketball player, just like I felt the Lakers were a better team than Dallas before their series here in the '11 playoffs. Homers like to quickly point out that Baron is undependable, mercurial even, as one talented Clippers blogger might say. But what does "undependable" really mean? I don't know. "Undependable" didn't really ring a bell when Baron was alley-oooooping Blake Griffin from endzone to endzone. Oh, but then there's the whole "Baron doesn't actually show up to training camp in-shape" thing. Again, this is kind of irrelevant. Which part don't the homers understand, the alley or the oop? You don't have to be a world-class sprinter to pass basketballs to Blake Griffin and conditioning rarely, if ever, becomes visible on the court. Last team to say that they won a ring because of training-camp-inshapeness? None? Exactly. It seems to this Clippers fan that the complaints surrounding the Baron Davis era were issues concerning hard work and commitment to the Clippers. Those things, however, are not exactly tangible, they're so very opaque. If Mo Williams is a much more committed talent than Baron, it shouldn't really matter. Think about Baron&Mo in Blake Griffin terms. We love Blake because he can jump super high, not because he works hard and not because he demonstrates admirable commitment.
All of that explains the first part of my rage. The second part stems from the favorite ClipsNation debate point right now, the draft pick. First of all, just to get it out of the way, Eric Bledsoe sucks. He just does. I'm a part of the camp that laughs at the idea of "player development," especially with point guards. Bledsoe is who he is. He will always be mediocre. Magic Johnson's stardom was always obvious, just like Phoenix knew Steve Nash would be a two-time MVP when they drafted him (trading him to Dallas was like a lay away plan, I think), and Just like Boston knew Chauncy Billups would be a finals MVP (they probably foresaw that he would blossom some 6 years later, but deemed him expendable as they likely also foresaw Rajon Rando... 9 years later); it's logical, is all.
Now, the draft pick, I'm getting there. I promise. I had to mention the Baron&Mo and Bledsoe before the draft pick because, as we all know, that pick is going to become the next CP3, Kyrie Irving, or CP4 rather. Irving was a a shoe-in for the first overall pick until very recently.The only other contender for the top spot being... Derrick Williams?... or is it Steve Johnson? William Stevens? Whatever it is, it's something that isn't called Kyrie... So Kyrie Irving wins the top spot because of his name alone, if by nothing else. And that's really the crux of it, I think. Considering the awful state of the Clippers point guard spot, they truly could not afford trading away Kyrie Irving; this type of simple analysis is called realism, folks. Homers, on the other hand, will try to argue that the Clippers didn't actually trade away Kyrie Irving or John Smith, or whatever his name is, but rather they traded away a draft pick that held a loose value much, much closer to the tenth overall pick than the first. Or they might argue that the Clippers could've only predicted the eventual value of the pick if they somehow learned how to see the future. To that I say... I'm not sure, but it would be really cool if they could see into the future. It's mind-bottling.
Then there are the numerous number variables, win totals fluctuating across the board because players are changing teams. But, like I said before, numbers. You know, facts. I don't know what these fancy numbers really say, but I do know that I feeeeeel like the Clippers would have the first overall pick had they not made the trade.
This realism is truly enlightening. See, if this is going to be the logic that I use, then I have to apply it to other Clippers happenings as well. So, I looked back in the Clippers yearbook for other Clippers screw-ups, looking for other valuable assets that the Clippers have idiotically lost, like they lost the choice between Kyrie Irving and John Doe.
- Cleveland Draft Pick: As mentioned, the Clippers gave away either Kyrie Irving or some guy who I'm sure I've met somewhere.
- Elton Brand: During the previous coaching era, the Clippers let this all-star walk away, only to watch him in the playoffs this season with Philadelphia.
- Lamar Odom: Similar to the Brand fiasco, the Clippers let Odom walk away, but rather than seeing him lose to the Miami Heat in round one like Brand, the Clippers watched Odom make the playoffs 7 times with both Miami and the Lakers and they watched Odom win two championships with the Lakers.
- Marko Jaric: His name is actually oft-mentioned with one of the biggest Clippers wins in history, the Sam Cassel trade; however that perspective is blatant homer-ism. The Clippers traded Jaric after the 2004-05 season, then in 2009, Jaric married supermodel Adriana Lima. This is perhaps the greatest give away in Clippers history. Sure, the Clippers had a short playoff appearance out of the trade, but at what cost? I'll tell you. They gave Minnesota a couple of Lima's best years, which is much more valuable than a single, short playoff appearance. I could have really enjoyed Lima on the sidelines for a couple of years. As a fan, I deserved that much.
If you're counting, the Clippers have given away 8 playoff appearances. The Clippers have given away 2 NBA Championships. The Clippers have given away Kyrie Irving and William Derrickson. The Clippers gave away Adriana Lima. And frankly, the Clippers have given away way too many free tickets to under-privileged youth. Tell me if this franchise sounds like a competent one after just four examples. Clippers fans need to stop being such homers. We need to be realists and hold the front office responsible for the unforeseeable future. It's what the responsible fan does, I think. Better yet, it's what the responsible fan does, I feeeeeel.
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Comments
Wicked
Examples:
" . . . Just like Boston knew Chauncy Billups would be a finals MVP (they probably foresaw that he would blossom some 6 years later, but deemed him expendable as they likely also foresaw Rajon Rando… 9 years later) . . ."
“We need to be realists and hold the front office responsible for the unforeseeable future . . .”
Unfortunately, those called out here won’t engage.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
What Olshey did
was quite transparent and predictable. It was quite foreseeable that Gomes and Foye were bad signings. That VDN wasn’t a good coach. The cap space was unused. That the unprotected lottery pick had a real chance of being a top 3 pick.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
It was quite foreseeable that Gomes and Foye were bad signings.
Nope, I don’t think people expected Gomes to have the worst year of his career. While neither is what I wanted, Olshey did the smart thing and shied away from landing a Travis Outlaw or Josh Childress. I agree, VDN is not who I would’ve hired, but by all accounts it was DTS who pushed for him.
“That the unprotected lottery pick had a real chance of being a top 3 pick.” How many times are you going to say this?? The only REAL chance was that the Pick would be 8-10.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 23, 2011 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
2%, or to be clear so CC won't have a shitfit, 2.8%, is "very real" albeit also "very small"
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
He's being disingenuous...
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 23, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Bottles the mind
Or, to semi-quote one of my favorite movies, his “intellect is truly dizzying.”
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wrong as usual
its 10% of being a top 3 pick. Stop being so dishonest.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Clearly Jax thinks its foolish to protect picks
Every GM who has ever done this was an idiot.
Or, as usual, he’s being dishonest.
Sub smart for dishonest and you may have something there
for a change
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
at the idea of Jax being smart. Well you may stupid but at least you’re funny.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I'll let that stand then
Olshey was an idiot when he protected the Bledsoe pick.
Gotta give it to you, that’s your first criticism of him that I have seen. That’s real progress my boy.
Actually it was
Gomes as a SF (the position the Clips signed him to play) has been much worse over his career as a SF.
And Foye has always been terrible. Look at this career numbers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/foyera01.html), was last year really an aberration?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Even in his best year
Gomes is a bad signing.
Sorry.
Long post, but couldn't read it
Because some of your arguments are just plain stupid!!! How can you go on here and say that all Clippers fans only like Blake Griffin because he jumps high?? Do you not think that there are any smart basketball fans in Clipper Nation? We can’t support someone who works hard and tries every day to make himself better?? If that is the case, then why the hell did we support Elton Brand so much?? It surly isn’t because of his acrobatics!! It was because he worked hard all the time. You could count on him day in and day out, and that is what most of us Clippers fans like about Blake! Also, how can you compare Eric Bledsoe “sucking” after his rookie year, but then go on to make cases for Steve Nash and Chauncy Billups? Neither of them had a major impact on the league until at least 3-4 years in the league. Many people called Billups a bust until he broke out with Minnesota, and even then, it wasn’t until he landed in Detroit that he was considered a star. And how can you say that Boston and Phoenix new these players would become superstars when they were drafted? They hoped they would become superstars, but ultimately gave up on those guys before it panned out. The only reason Phoenix looks smart is because Dallas gave up on Nash, but after Nash turned into a perennial all-star. Unfortunately, I would like to invalidate your other points in your writing, but couldn’t continue to read, due to the outrageous comments i mentioned above. Before you say something, know your facts!!!
I think you missed the entire point.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
"I think must of us agree that Baron-for-Mo was an awful idea."
Please don’t speak for “most of us.” The reality is that you have no idea what “most of us” think, since “most of us” choose to read this site rather then post constantly to see who can scream the loudest. Write about what YOU believe, then leave it up to “most of us” to decide how your arguments fit with our perceptions. But to hang your hat on assertions as to what you postulate that “most of us” think is simply propaganda of the worst kind.
As for the specifics of the Baron trade, I would caution “most of us” from falling into the same reactionary trap that this site has suffered from over and over again. For “most of us”, patience should be thought of as a virtue.
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" – Albert Einstein
by Another son of Mike Smith on May 23, 2011 9:20 AM PDT reply actions
The Falcon agrees with your take - as do I and many others here
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Patience is a virtue
You should have been patient enough to read falconpunch’s entire post.
They kind of prove the point don't they?
What you are asking is how many people spouting off an opinion without taking the time to understood what they read does it take to make a cleverly written piece satirizing half-baked opinions to be bad writing? It’s all meant to be in good fun, but the irony is beautiful.
Dude you are a really good writer
Very clever and nicely done
"I think must of us agree that Baron-for-Mo was an awful idea."
Like what ASOMS said, nope. I find it very interesting that the crap shoot that resulted in us “losing” Kyrie Irving to CLE somehow makes everybody forget that Baron Davis was Public Enemy Number One around here. I like Baron and wanted more than anything for him to succeed here, and for the two months before the trade it looked like it was finally happening. But enough was enough; Baron had to go. And Mo, the second best player on back-to-back 60 win teams is a good enough return. And he’s by FAR a better shooter, someting this team needed/needs.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 23, 2011 9:36 AM PDT reply actions
"Elton Brand: During the previous coaching era, the Clippers let this all-star walk away, only to watch him in the playoffs this season with Philadelphia."
Haha, “LET”? MDSr. fought tooth and nail to keep EB, not the team’s fault we got Faulked. And seeing how EB did in PHI, we’ve all been jumping for joy.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 23, 2011 9:42 AM PDT reply actions
I think my head exploded. I'm realizing this post is in jest, but there's enough in here to make you wonder which side you're actually on.
That’s good satire.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on May 23, 2011 9:46 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It's so good that most of the people posting don't even realize it.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Paragraph by paragraph....I went from WTF?! to ahhh to AHHHHH I see.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly what I did hahaha
While simultaneously taking into account who wrote it. This is great.
LOL.. Same here
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on May 23, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you agree with the main point?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Are you asking if I agree with the trade?
No, I don’t. I liked Baron.
by Michael White on May 23, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
No, I'm asking whether you agree with the point of FalconPUNCH's post
As I read it, the post has more to do with the way some have been reacting to the fact that the pick turned out to be the first pick rather than whether the trade was reasonable based on the actual terms.
I don’t understand what you mean by “liking BD.” I would submit that most of us “liked” BD. The question there I think is whether the trade was reasonable when made, not whether we like the guy.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I’ll be more specific regarding BD. I liked him as the point guard of the Clippers and would not have traded him straight up for Mo Williams (leave the draft pick to the side for the moment.) Was the trade reasonable? Ya, I guess. I’m not arrogant enough to suggest that just because I wouldn’t do a particular trade that it was therefore unreasonable.
I never cared about the pick and it would be disingenous of me to use the pick lost as a rallying cry now that it turned out to be number 1. I hate draft picks, I hate rookies (except for good ones like BG and EJ) and I think trading picks for players (even if that’s not exactly what happened here) is a perfectly reasonable strategy to be exploited. I’m still suggesting that the Minny pick be considered for a trade.
by Michael White on May 23, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I like most of your posts Falcon but
this one is just plain stupid from the very first assumption. Please stop talking out of your butt.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Okay disregard my first post
now I get it. Damn sarcasm.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
by bestclipfan on May 23, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Like my signature has stated for a long time now..falconPUNCH! for pres!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
lol i agree
seriously? the jaric trade was a mistake??? we got minnesota’s first rounder and sam cassell out of it…that was one of the best trades we have ever made…
and brand leaving us was a definite blessing in disguise…if he didn,‘t i’m sure as hell we would not have blake griffin today
falcon, i don’t know if you’re doing your best impersonation of stephen colbert or are you serious?
by nauticazn25 on May 23, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
lopsided trade
Cassell for Lima…
oh my….its like super different ends of the spectrum
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
Your post was WAY OUT there...
I don’t know what to say, but I’ll try to decipher the best I can. At every Clipper message board I’ve visited since last week, there’s been a strong division among the Clippers fans in regards to #1 pick going to Cleveland. In many ways, I can understand the feelings, but personally I feel pretty indifferent about this whole thing because you can do so much rebuilding via the draft, and the draft is a gamble to being with. There are no guarantees that a #1 pick (or any high draft pick for that matter) will turn any franchise around overnight, although many do blossom and succeed. I felt indifferent about the Baron-Mo trade, because it was a lateral move…didn’t make either team any better or worse.
One thing I do agree with is that this front office has been to be more accountable. I’m not a fan of Neil Olshey (I wanted Kevin Pritchard or Denver’s ex-GM Mark what-his-name), but I’m willing to give him a chance to turn things. Let’s not forget that he has to clean up Dunleavy AND Baylor’s messes, and still has to answer to the old man and his beancounter.
I think Dunleavy/Baylor's messes are gone
unless you think Kaman’s contract is a mess…..oh yea and Jasen Powell
the rest of the guys are either signed/drafted/traded by NO or Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, Minny Pick, which I am fine to keep from the Dunleavy Era
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
The point of the post is more on fan reaction to the trade after finding it out it was #1 vs their reaction prior.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
+1000 FP
That was hilarious its just too bad there was no way to even jokingly spin the Marcus Camby trade as a solid move
by Chris O'Reilly on May 23, 2011 10:43 AM PDT reply actions
sarcasm
not everyone’s cup of tea.
Well played sir and recc’d
by BelgianClipper on May 23, 2011 11:02 AM PDT reply actions
Brilliant
That kid has no facial expressions. He just plays and its like every kid out there on him is like Sarah Connor
You forgot to mention a key point in the Baron - Mo trade...
…we also lost Jessica Alba…
Forget Kyrie Irving, I just want my jessica back! =[[[
+1
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
by falconPUNCH on May 23, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
holy sh*t, you are absolutely right!
We could have had both Alba and Lima sitting on the sidelines.
I’m really upset now.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Full of truthiness
Well played.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
+1 for the Colbert reference
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
by bestclipfan on May 23, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Good post touche
but I will make a Great Expectations tie in;
Clipper Fans = Miss Havisham = still waiting
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
That's a lot of words wasted on not making anything nearing a coherent point
“What you just said…”
But hey, hide behind sarcasm and disingenuousness if that’s all you have.
Yeah - I hate peope who eviscerate those on this site who are constantly telling us all the way it is
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Was he eviscerating someone?
Are you sure you know what that word means?
As for me, as I always say, if you have something to say just say it. I’m really not sure what he was trying to say here, but some of his facts are all wrong, so if those facts were to lead to examples or other ideas, those would be incorrect too.
may i cut in on this dance?
satire isn’t funny if it’s inaccurate, and i don’t look to be inaccurate.
what “facts are all wrong”?
it can’t be funny if it’s “all wrong,”
and comedy is my goal.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
I think he also suggested that your post is disingenuous
Not clear why
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
snap. i'm not sure which one of these i'm supposed to respond to.
i don’t think my question deserved to be answered by another question.
without re-reading my horribly long fanpost, the one “wrong” fact that comes to mind is what i wrote concerning Elton Brand. i think most ClipsNation citizens know that the Clippers didn’t let Brand Walk; Brand’s walking away is well-documented. but, in this case, being “wrong” is the point. it’s a rhetorical device, amplifying my theme while offering something that isn’t true in order to remind my audience that they’re reading something satirical.
so, i’ll answer your question before you answer my question, the question that i asked first: no, not every word is truthful (i.e. Brand), as i intended. but, it seems like you’re trying to say that my post is dishonest when it’s comedy.
so, either you’re misunderstanding my satire and calling it “disingenuousness”
or i’m misunderstanding my own “disingenuousness” and calling it satire.
in these situations, i tend to bet on the author.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
by falconPUNCH on May 23, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Falcon don't explain it
explain comedy only ruins its effect, some people just don’t get it.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Well
If you admit not every word is truthful, why would I need to answer your original question? Your answer seems to suffice. You weren’t being genuine, so its fair to say you were being disingenuous.
If this was comedy, I didn’t see any LOL’s. I would say that you should look inward when looking for who missed the mark there.
Be a man. If you have something to say, just say it. Don’t hide behind your passive-aggressive idea of satire. Or at least get better at it, since quite a few people who are actually inclined to agree with you didn’t get it at all.
Your quote seems to indicate you don’t feel the internets are worthwhile for discussion and you clearly see yourself as above us. That’s cute, but in a way sad.
no, no, no.
“You weren’t being genuine, so its fair to say you were being disingenuous.”
i don’t think that you’re willing to argue that satirists are disingenuous. that’s silly. and i think anyone who tries to say that the likes of jon stewart or jerry seinfield are disingenuous during their routines aren’t thinking it through.
it really looks like you’re confusing “genuine” with straightforward.
the genuine quality in comedy is not meant to be taken at the level of diction; it’s supposed to be taken as a whole
just because someone takes an alternate route like comedy to make a point does not mean there is no authentic point.
if you don’t “get” the point, fine. others do. but that doesn’t mean i’m “disingenuous.” it means you don’t like it. and you don’t have to. but take the name calling somewhere else, please.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
It's kind of ironic that
John R is the one who is being disingenuous here. First he says that he doesn’t understand what you’re saying.
Then he says that some of the people who would agree with your point didn’t get it.
Thus, as you intimated, John R “got it,” he just didn’t “like it.”
But he isn’t man enough to admit it, so he’s got to go out and call you names.
I guess this short conversation is Exhibit A for your post.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If you aren't saying what you think and are only building strawman and tearing them down
That’s not being genuine. Sorry. You can continue to obfuscate and dither all you want.
I “got it”. You can tell from my immediately reaction I could see what you were trying to do. Its those that are inclined to agree with you who mostly didn’t. So again, I “got” what you were trying to do, you just did a poor job of that. The reasons are your examples were poor and some to the point of being incorrect. This confused some of your readers. Its all in the comments section. That you had to go to those lengths to defeat a mere strawman shows how weak whatever you think your point is.
But even still, you didn’t add up to an authentic point.
Also, Jon Stewart and Jerry Seinfeld are your examples of funny people?
It's called not giving away the ending too quickly
Those weren’t poor examples. Poor examples would have been contradictory and sloppy, and that never occurs. It’s pretty obvious that FP kept his post intentionally vague so that the reader either had to think carefully to understand what he was implying or miss the point completely. Of course anyone that read his previous posts should have been tipped off to not expect a straightforward essay.
LOL
He exposed you, you “got it,” and now you’re lashing out like a petulant child in embarrassment.
Why not take the opportunity to grow up and make Clipsnation a better place for all of us?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
btw, about my quote.
“Your quote seems to indicate you don’t feel the internets are worthwhile for discussion and you clearly see yourself as above us. That’s cute, but in a way sad.”
then does your lack of a quote indicate some type of emptiness or lack of substance?
i wouldn’t say that it does. that’s silly.
i think my signature seems to indicate that Mark Heisler has a very specific opinion about blogging. why would you project his opinion as my own?
i really can’t help but feel like you’re trying to pick a fight. and, i really don’t know why you’re doing it. you seem like one of the most intelligent contributers here at CN, yet now you stoop to comments like “be a man.”
in the words of mugatu, i feel like i’m taking crazy pills.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
I have a guess as to why he's doing it
He’s picking a fight with you because 1) this fanpost has been seen by many as a shot at him (and you haven’t exactly denied that though I didn’t initially have that takeaway) and 2) because you made an earlier fanpost where you took a shot at him.
by Michael White on May 23, 2011 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's more likely a shot at Chuckles
Unlike John R, Chuckles doesn’t really know when to quit.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I almost don't want to disclose this
but you might want to read FP’s part regarding Mo and Baron again.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
See what I mean
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Hilarious Jax
says others don’t know when to quit and then goes on and on with his inane ramblings.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
He will be in this thread days after it dies
Unless he has something to do on a Saturday.
Just trying to create a better Clipsnation
You’re welcome
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
that's so childish.
are you talking about my The Waste Land fanpost?
how silly is that? i can’t joke around about the ridiculous debates that flood this wonderful blog.
i criticized two parties in that other fanpost. why is only one making a fuss, if what you say is true?
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
Ah, more passive-aggression
Its like a broken record!
Oh, why can’t I?
You have been begging for attention. You got it.
It will be interesting to see whether
falcon will get into the mud with this loser. At least he can see firsthand how rewarding it will not be.
falcon is correct that Michael’s analysis is at least partially inaccurate. The post in question was at least partially a shot at me. And falson was right – I allowed myself to get involved in a dumb argument with the loser.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Where is this argument you guys are speaking of?
Did I miss out on some epic mud slinging?!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
It's back there somewhere
Probably not worth your time
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I think this is what they are talking about
Falcon’s fanposts are pretty hilarious.
It took me a few months of citizenry before I understood the banter in the Waste Land.
lol i remember that one haahahah
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
There are no dumb arguments on Clipsnation
Until you present your side.
Oooh - good one
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Baron > Mo because with Baron we got to see Jessica Alba in the stands.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
yea
let’s also ignore all that advanced stats gobbledegoo.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, more passive-aggression
About what is to be expected at this point.
So you renounce that you agree with Heisler? Interesting. I mean why would one pick something for a quote unless it had some particular significance to them. Who just randomly slaps a quote on every comment they make?
Or more likely you do agree with him and you just won’t say what you believe because it is your passive-aggressive way.
I’ll repeat. Be a man. Say what you have to say. Support it with real evidence and stand behind it.
Oh noes, why are you picking a fight with me, why are you so mean!
Look. Jax has been here a long time. You two have the same schtick, but at least he varies it up from time to time to keep me sharp.
maybe i'm supposed to apologize now. i really don't know.
it seems like you’re taking something waaaay too personally.
if i offended you with something that i typed, then i’m sorry it bothers you so much. but i’m not sorry for actually doing it.
if i disagree with you and i feel like typing it out, then i do it, just like i do when i disagree with anyone else on this blog.
the same goes for agreement.
i don’t claim to be as talented as Shakespeare or Stewart or even the funny guy at the coffee shop. i do it because it’s fun and i do it because i think people will enjoy it.
and it looks like people did enjoy it.
i don’t have any ant-JohnR agenda. i don’t even know you; i can’t possibly care enough about you or anyone else here to plot and snicker in my dungeon, preparing my next ant-JohnR comment.
but, since you act like you know my motivations, i can’t expect that any of this will have an effect. but, i want to be able to say i tried. these bullying and senseless arguing does nothing good for ClipsNation.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
The Prez never apologizes to his rivals.
Only to his people.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
You haven't offended me at all
I personally think its funny. Not the fanpost, that wasn’t funny, but the result.
But you can’t claim to not know why something like this will generate response, again, that’s just dishonest.
The overall tone of your last 4 or so fanposts indicate you are uncomfortable with conflict in a mommy-daddy-stop-it sort of way. That’s fine. But you chose to make yourself real to me, so here I am.
So you didn’t want to touch the Heisler thing, huh? Didn’t think so.
Actually, the result is pretty clear if you read through the thread
You have unintentionally but completely validated his point about you.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wait the fanpost WAS about me?
I thought you said it was about Chuck?
You are an idiot.
Gotcha
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Gotcha what?
This is pathetic even for you. I sort of want to know what you really believe here. I mean whatever it is its stupid, but my curiosity is winning.
since you asked so kindly -__-
“But you can’t claim to not know why something like this will generate response, again, that’s just dishonest.”
i never claimed that i didn’t expect responses. but, i admit that i did not expect the immaturity that is so prevalent in these comments. it’s childish.
“The overall tone of your last 4 or so fanposts indicate you are uncomfortable with conflict in a mommy-daddy-stop-it sort of way.”
more of the same… i don’t dislike conflict in a mommy-daddy anything. i dislike conflict that doesn’t reach anything close to adult standards. not like a child wanting his parents to stop fighting and more like a teacher who wants his students to stop fighting while being legally forbidden to strike them.
sometimes this stuff, this debate is worse than middle school girls, the back and forth.
“But you chose to make yourself real to me, so here I am.”
this, please, please explain what the heck that is supposed to mean. seriously.
as for the Heisler things, i mean really. you say that you’re not bothered, yet you continue this rhetoric, this “i didn’t think you wanted to talk about Heisler because i’m right and you’re wrong” …
it’s ridiculous.
i honestly didn’t bring up the Heisler thing because i can’t help but think it’s pointless to explain my perspective.
i feel like you assume the position that everyone operates under one set of rules. like this:
“So you renounce that you agree with Heisler? Interesting. I mean why would one pick something for a quote unless it had some particular significance to them. Who just randomly slaps a quote on every comment they make?”
i didn’t renounce anything because i never claimed anything for myself. but, feeeeeel like i renounced it… how am i supposed to respond to you when that’s your take on it.
you seem to operate under the conditions that, if you have a blog signature, then that signature reflects a personal tidbit about the blogger. that makes no sense to me. i have the signature from Heisler because i think it’s intersting, because i think it’s funny, because i think it’s relevant.
if i’m writing an essay on literature and i want to use an epigraph, i don’t pick an epigraph that i “believe in.” i pick one that’s relevant to the topic. Heisler’s quote, i think, is, quite relevant to blogging. sometimes people prove this quote wrong; sometimes they prove it right. where is the rule that says that i have to have some type of vested interest in it? … and that’s why i didn’t address the Heisler quote.
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
What we have here is a failure to communicate
Maybe I’m just hopelessly naive (I’ve been told so before), but I don’t see any of your posts as a shot at anyone. At least I never caught that tone in them. I thought you were reminding us not to take ourselves too seriously. And I’ve been guilty as charged at times. Thank you for entertaining us (at least some of us).
Blah blah blah
Too long didn’t read.
You might look into brevity. Its a virtue and it might help with your failure to communicate that ClipCat notes below.
Per wikipedia: Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt. which I would say isn’t actually conducive to an open and productive exchange of ideas. You seem to be the epitome of the problem Heisler is talking about in your quote.
Hey, hit me up if you ever have something interesting or insightful to say about basketball or the Clippers. I want to be there.
John R doesn't agree with you. He thinks Sam Cassell is > Adriana Lima.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
lol, touche
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Hiding behind sarcasm and disingenuousness, huh?
Where have I seen that before?
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
No...
YOU and Bill Simmons. And let’s add Skip Bayless into the Sports Hack Trifecta as well.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
don't fan the flames, 82
"Energizing the process, or turning it upside-down, fans now participate, writing blogs and posting comments and videos [...] the dialogue is to discourse what road rage is to driving." -Mark Heisler
fannnn them!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Look, falcon
If you are going to make a point, satire or not, don’t be surprised if those you rip decide to come out of the woodwork and call you on it.
If they were inclined to agree with you, or be embarrassed into keeping quiet, they probably woudn’t have been doing the things that caused you to write about them in the first place.
You’re clearly a clever guy. Surely you realize that your post would cause some flames to be fanned. I would suggest that you don’t back down and just take the bull by the horns. Your point is a good one and you expressed it quite eloquently.
Which is why John R is reacting with such viciousness. Feel free to move in for the kill. It won’t be difficult, but it will not be pretty.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Weird
Hey, at least we can agree he is a passive-agressive sort of fellow.
Why is satire passive-aggressive?
It’s actually very straightforward and clever.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It has nothing to do with the piss poor attempt at satire
You said “Surely you realize that your post would cause some flames to be fanned” indicating that even an idiot like you would know that it would attract negative attention to write this post.
Yet he is claiming doesn’t understand.
I am assuming you aren’t calling him stupid. What are you calling him?
Chances are that if you start out by calling me an idiot
I’m probably not going to respond to you. Given that you apparently live in your mother’s basement, and have never actually dated or interacted with many other than in the virtual world, you might not fully realize that. So I ’ll throw you that bone.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I would suggest that you
take falcon’s suggestion to heart and stop the senseless arguing and bullying. This site would be far better for it. You are an intelligent fellow. Unfortunately, it’s all just wasted in blather.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
stop patronizing the man.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I'm not patronizing him
I’m trying to make Clipsnation a better place to be.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It may be piss poor attempt at satire, but I still found it entertaining.
I mean come on Adriana Lima!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
We all can't hope to live up to John R's apparently very high
satire standards
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I don't have time to list all 5,542 citations.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Just go back and read your inane arguments with Jax...
which, by the way, are beyond annoying for us “neutral” members to read. Cut it out.
And by the way, you start the majority of the arguments. You see Jax post and then you can’t help yourself.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Gators // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
So you can't actually cite one then
You are full of crap.
Just look at this thread. I wrote something in response to the fanpost then he responds with his usual idiocy.
The Rec button
Sometimes a great misuse of power.
Why?
I rec’d this, and I’d rec it again if I could
by MikeV7297 on May 23, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
i’ll rec your post for recing it in the first place and wanting to rec it agian
I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!
by KidJustin on May 23, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I rec'd it, then unrec'd it just to re-rec it.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on May 23, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec this - no, unrec this
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
by Jax on May 23, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Same here
if you don’t realize why this post is brilliant than you need to read it again, and it you still don’t get it, then you are beyond help.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Enough
This is the second time you’re calling people out for misunderstanding this post, when you yourself misunderstood it at first, and lashed out pretty obnoxiously as a result. Do you fail to see the irony there as well?
As Clipper fans we have to occasionally remember that the outside world, the real world, believes that we’re all insane. They don’t understand us at all. What we do doesn’t make any rational sense to them. - citizen zhiv
you know things are going good when del taco employees are talking about the clips. - ImranQ
supac's point seems to be validated
As Clipper fans we have to occasionally remember that the outside world, the real world, believes that we’re all insane. They don’t understand us at all. What we do doesn’t make any rational sense to them. - citizen zhiv
you know things are going good when del taco employees are talking about the clips. - ImranQ
the only thing i disagree with is Bledsoe
the guys an athletic freak and he was not that bad as a backup. i think he’s going to be good because there were some times during the year where he really broke out especially towards the end of the season!
Max McCarthy
I would disagree with that
Bledsoe at least has some PG capabilities and has shown to have a decent mid range shot.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
clippers trades
If you look carefully at the trades mentioned above, the baron-williams trade was the best trade the clippers have made in years. If you attended all of the clipper games before and after the trade, it was clear the team played better after the trade. There was energy and it was fun to watch. baron was baron who cared about baron. The lobs to BG was assists on the stats. not points on the board.
Baron’s play reminds me of Cassel’s play when he walked the ball over the backcourt in the playoffs and was called for the 8 second violation. it cost us the game and a chance to go to the finals. Williams is a team player, the same as EJ, DJ and BG, baron is for baron and how big a contract he can get.
By the way, there is no guarantee that the clips would have had the same luck as the Cavs in the lottery.
Eh
I went to all the games in January, the Baron-BG chemistry was far superior to the Mo-BG chemistry.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not to concerened about the BG-Mo chemistry
I think Mo and BG just need time to get used to playing together, Baron and BG had a training camp, and a majority of a season to get used to each other.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Your arguments aside...
I was specifically addressing Hamlish’s point that the Clips played better after the trade or were more fun. I actually think they were less exciting post-trade as Bledsoe and Mo aren’t as good at throwing lobs as Baron and I think many pointed it out towards the end of the year.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Your arguments aside...
I was specifically addressing Hamlish’s point that the Clips played better after the trade or were more fun. I actually think they were less exciting post-trade as Bledsoe and Mo aren’t as good at throwing lobs as Baron and I think many pointed it out towards the end of the year.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on May 23, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand how developing bledsoe is any different from irving
Moves we’ve made to improve the team
1. Drafting Eric Gordon 2. Drafting Blake Griffin 3. Drafting DJ
Moves we’ve made to weaken the team
1. Dumping camby, zbo for cap room 2. Not Drafting #1 this draft 3. Not signing any good free agents last year 4. hiring loser coaches
How can we avoid the whole conversation that this team only drafts good players and hasn’t signed any real free agents or made a GOOD trade in a really long time. I enjoy a good chuckle at the expense of our losing ways as much as the next fan and surely enjoy satire to divide our fans into camps but a trust the FO or be mocked approach to clipsnation. this is just weak. how easy is it to mock a blog about the clippers? Not very hard, these r just becoming pathetic.
wine um, dine um, 69 um
by flightofthegriffin on May 23, 2011 8:41 PM PDT reply actions
I thought this issue is dead but guys like you keep bringing it back.
What we care about here in Clip Nation is winning.
Last year with Baron how many games did we win 29?
Thats not enough for you well lets look at this year then,
Plain and Simple with Baron this team record was 21-37
With Mo Williams the team did almost 500 ball 11-13
On the Bledsoe thing he’s still rough around the edges but he brings lots of
energy to this team for being a rook i think he did well.
So you think we should still overpaid this guy who was suppose to be the star
on this team and only deliver false hopes.
You act as if Baron is solely responsible for our losing records.
Gordon is just as responsible if not more. You can’t pin a team record on one player.
Last season, Gordon was lost for 20 games…Just as we were close to hitting .500. This season, Gordon got hurt again and lost him for more than 20 games…Just as we were in the middle of the best run in years. And you want to solely blame Baron? Gordon who is a part-time player has a big role in this. For a lazy, fat, underachieving player, Baron was able to stay on the court longer than Gordon, Griffin, and Kaman in the last 3 years.
That’s the reality of it.
You can't blame Gordon for being injured
Baron on the other hand came into training camp unprepared which is something that you can blame someone for.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
And you can't Blame Baron for not having any quality players to work with.
This all goes hand in hand. Gordon was our best scorer. Any team will suffer as a result. Doesn’t matter how he missed time, he’s done throughout his career. What good is a player if he’s averaging 20+ missed games a season? And if he is, how can you blame Baron for our record?
understand what I’m trying to say? I’m not blaming Gordon, I’m making it difficult to blame Baron when it was Gordon who was missing more games than the out of shape Baron.
Injuries played a bigger part in the last 3 years than Baron underachieving.
People seem to lose all facts when it comes to Baron but if your best scorer is constantly missing more time than the scapecoat, constantly rotating players twice a year, and the scapegoat is playing more than any starter, something is really wrong.
That’s all I’m saying. There is plenty of blame to go around, it doesn’t all fall on one person.
Not having quality players to work with?
that doesn’t address the problem that he came into training camp not in peak shape. He claimed to be a leader on the team, but a leader has to lead by example and he was incapable of that. If Baron had come into training camp in shape than we might have been able to start the season better, Baron had complete control over whether or not he came into camp in shape.
On the flip side Gordon had no control over being injured on two flagrant plays, Gordon even came back earlier than he probably should have just because he wanted to help his team however he could, even after the season was lost.
Your argument is full of fallacies, fact Baron had control over his ability to come into camp in shape, fact Gordon can’t control whether he is injured or not (unless you are saying he was sandbagging it and delaying his comeback which is a bad argument seeing as he came back and was still obviously bothered by his wrist). No one is saying that Gordon’s injury didn’t hurt our season, but he can’t be blamed for unforgettable events no more than Griffin could be blamed for missing the whole 2009-2010 season which probably damaged the teams end result.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
He claimed to be the leader of the team? Really?
Huh, didn’t hear that this past season. In fact, he said it was BG’s and EJ’s team. must have missed that. And we might have started the season better but just like like season, Gordon was going to go down for 20-25 games like he did the previous season.. That’s the pattern. What happened last season?
Gordon injuries have come from hard fouls but please don’t tell me he had no control. Gordon has one speed, no moves, can’t change directions, and barrels through players. Of course if your only move A to B, you’re more susceptible to injury. And I don’t think any of those plays were flagrant.
My argument isn’t full of fallacies. Was baron the sole reason we had losing seasons? Not a fallacy. Does Gordon get hurt for more than 20 games a season? Not a fallacy. Were injuries a bigger part of the reason why we couldn’t win? Not a fallacy. Was trading away 2-3-4 players at a time every season part of it? Not a fallacy. So tell me, where are the fallacies in my argument? You won’t find any, cause there are none.
He said it was BG and EJ's team but still relished in a leadership position
and you still ignore the fact that Baron’s inability to come into training camp in shape lead him miss a large chunk of the first part of the season, which gave Bledsoe a large role way before he was ready.
And you are calling Gordon out for being aggressive, that is plain stupid. EJ’s aggressive drives to the hoop are part of what makes him great, there are inherent risks to being aggressive but he would be doing a disservice to the team if he didn’t play all out. And part of playing all out is a risk of injury, otherwise EJ becomes a jump shooter and an average player. And there in lies your fallacy, you claim that EJ has a responsibility for his injuries as if to say that he should drive less. But if EJ was to change his game as you advocate the team would be inherently damaged as EJ’s game depends on these drives to the hoop.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Look,no need to get that agressive with words.
I ain’t calling out Gordon for being aggressive. That is just plain stupid and simpleminded. I said that his lack of moves and inability to change directions makes him more SUSCEPTIBLE to injury. What don’t you get about that? don’t fault me for your inability to understand a simple sentence. Do I fault him for his injuries? No. Do I fault him indirectly for missing time and blame his as part of the reason why we haven’t won? Effing yes!
Baron gave up the leadership role but still relished in the leadership position? Can you get any more petty? I;m sure you saw that every time he smiled? Got the guys together in a team huddle? How about sticking up for the players when they got in trouble? Where was Gordon? Running away in the opposite direction that’s where he was.
And let me finish by saying that Gordon’s Driving doesn’t make him great. I haven’t seen an SG in the league that cause more turnovers, losses the ball, gets blocked, and has more unforced TO’s in the paint. Must be his curse too.
The sad thing is I’ve got nothing Gordon. I usually use him as an example since he seems to get a pass. I thought I was pretty clear about that in my very first post. Don’t blame me for your ignorance.
Of course EJ needs to add a better handle to his game
that is not debatable, however that doesn’t meant that he deserves blame for getting injured. And as for the Baron leadership role, I grant that Baron had conceded that the team was BG and EJ’s but Baron was still looked up to as part of the veteran leadership. And he ought to have been the leader seeing as he was the highest paid player on the team, and therefore had a responsibility to perform on par with his pay. Of course he didn’t and as a result the clippers got rid of him so they could move.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Again, i ain't blaming him for his injuries.
did you read my first post on this?
If Gordon misses 20+ games a season. How are we supposed to win? Whether baron came in out of shape, up until the he was traded, he wore the team’s jersey more than Gordon did in the 2-1/2 season together. 20 games is a 1/4 of the season. Doesn’t matter how he got injured, he still missing time. And if he’s missing a 1/4 + a season, again, how do you expect us to be successful? By that rational, Yao Ming should be kept at all cost cause his injuries are not his fault. I know it’s the extreme but the same point. There was only so much any player could have done with the motley Crew we had.
Baron at the time he was traded, was playing to a level that helped the team. The reason why we started to spiral out of control was because Gordon got injured…Again. and we went on an 11 game roadtrip. you don’t think we could have kept our hot streak with a healthy gordon? I do.
And using salary to dictate leadership is a fallacy. by that rational, Collison and perkins should be leading the Thunder, not Durant or Westbrook. And Boozer and Deng should be leading the Bulls cause they made more money than Rose. See how that doesn’t work in real life?
anyway, I’ve wasted too much time trying to explain something that was on the very first post…on several posts.
I dont disagree with you, but your arrogance is astounding
Everybody is wrong at some point you know.
I agree 100% about Gordon though. He needs to get some handles, and some moves with the ball in his hand.
I guess you didn't heard...
That’s what makes him “great”.
I'm very certain that Gordon will have a better career than Baron.
He already has a gold metal under his belt and with the other side of the
G-Force they will make some noise in the future. Gordon improved his
numbers this year and with better ball handling he will be a complete
player. The good thing he is still very young.
Correction:
I guess you didn’t hear…
Gotta stopped typing and watching the play-offs. D’oh!
Someone else who has some sense.
Three years of Baron failures and these guys want to keep paying him 13 mil to produce
nothing and than go attack Gordon who had his best season until that dumb shit
gave him that flagrant foul and he was never the same. If you want to blame somebody
then blame the coaching staff because injuries are no more excuses.
I think most people can agree that the training staff of the Clippers is probably pretty bad
Maybe we can bribe Phoenix’s to come over.
Definitely
it’s amazing what their training staff has done with older players like Hill,Nash, and even Shaq was healthy when he played for the Suns.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown

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