The Peril of Calling a Draft Weak and Throwing Away Picks For No Reason
Even at 8, or 9, or 10, the answer to the Clippers' problems remained on the board all the way to #15. The Spurs appear to agree.
11 months ago
John R
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BUT BUT BUT
hindsight…..
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
i feel like breaking something
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 12:21 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
John R - don't you prefer FA/trades over drafting anyway though?
With that said, Kawhi Leonard seems promising, especially since the Spurs picked him…are you and advanced stats ready to say he’s going to be a stud today?
That's what he means
We could have traded the pick, and picks were clearly valuable this year, despite the scouted weakness of the draft. No one denies the draft was weak, but that doesn’t change that picks were potentially the difference between Iggy and not-Iggy.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
(Though I don’t understand John’s Spurs line.)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Yeah I didn't read the article before I commented, probably because I'm stupid.
And I meant trade the pick for something other than cap space.
Gonna read this thing now and get back to you.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
No blame
I’m calling out dumbness like “its a weak draft” and unnecessarily trading away first round picks.
Yes trade them, but for value. We can now see that even if the Clippers don’t win the lottery they could have gotten great value out of that pick.
The few of you that realized right away that ANY lottery pick would have had value, regardless of draft-strength
were wise.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
There is some value in appeasing a guy that has been labeled as one of the main cornerstones of the franchise
…by trading away Baron. I was fond of Baron, but if keeping him meant that EJ was very likely to walk…
proof?
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
I can't give you proof
But I can say that I have good reason to believe EJ did not like Baron, for what it’s worth.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
There's lots of proof - he just has to look through prior posts
But BD is problematic for a number of reasons, not just EJ
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I really don't want to get into it any further than this
But I’m sure you’ve heard things on the inside too.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
That's really what is not being mentioned here
They really wanted to get rid of BD. They had their reasons and they are reasonable, even though you might disagree.
Now if you could convince me that they could get rid of that albatross BD contract while waiting until now, I’d agree with you. The problem is that he could get hurt at any time and as we all know isn’t it better to trade the guy while he’s playing well?
Look at the Cavs now trying to unload that contract.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
total non issue
EJ was a Clipper no matter what until the 2013 off-season (when Baron’s contract expires) as long as the Clippers wanted. He’s already got one year under contract and the next year he is a RFA so he has no leverage in any of this.
And Blake Griffin, by far the biggest cornerstone, really liked playing with Griffin even Olshey said so.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
You can post this as many times as you want
But you’d be wrong every single time.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Explain
How does EJ leave before Baron’s contract is up.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
He has no hope of doing that
Because he is just totally wrong.
total non issue
EJ was a Clipper no matter what until the 2013 off-season (when Baron’s contract expires) as long as the Clippers wanted. He’s already got one year under contract and the next year he is a RFA so he has no leverage in any of this.
And Blake Griffin, by far the biggest cornerstone, really liked playing with Blake even Olshey said so.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Your double posts are different by one word. What the hell?
CONSPIRACY!
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Heh
I tried to correct it. I’m sure Blake likes playing with Blake. That’s what she said.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
What does it matter what I prefer? I'm not the GM.
I’m just tired of the whole weak draft/couldn’t know the position excuse. Even at the Clippers’ worst possible position there appears to have been a high quality player available at the need position.
If you are asking if I am aligning myself with the Spurs, who traded away an actual NBA player who Popovich is said to have loved, I guess I have to say yes? I will bow down before the Spurs’ draft record in finding under appreciated players.
Hm
Then perhaps a gripe should be directed at the FO for not taking a stats-based approach to drafting/trading, as Houston does? The thing is, a lot of teams—-in fact probably most of them—-don’t really use stats when evaluating these things. They go by more conventional means (i.e. scouts who watch half a dozen games and come to “conclusions”).
I was just having this thought. If Andy’s so responsive to communications, I wonder if any on this site have asked him why they don’t use a more stats-based approach. I’m sure he’s been asked plenty of times, but I’m curious what his response would be. Why not, at the very least, utilize these readily available tools and cross-reference with what their scouts are saying? Or maybe (though this risks confirmation bias) go into scouting with the knowledge that Player X statistically performs. Obviously there are intangibles the stats don’t pick up, but there are plenty of qualities they do pick up. I think that not using them at all is a little close-minded, if that’s how the FO works. Now maybe they do use advanced stats, but just choose to weight them less, but I’d be curious to find out, if someone hasn’t already.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Kind of surprised the Clippers never have used the stats approach
the Clippers have always been run like a small market team you think they would have found a way to keep payroll low by finding hidden gems.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
They are too cheap to employ statisticians, scouts, etc
Their problems in that area go far beyond employing a statisticiain.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
If they employ the statistician
they can cut costs by hiring a no name coaches etc. That’s the moneyball approach.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Tell that to DTS
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I know, right?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
to go further into it
A advanced stats FO would cut down on a lot of scouts too. I saw the preview for Moneyball (starring Brad Pitt no less) last week, it looked very entertaining.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
There's definitely a place for that
Combine that with a good coach and money and you have a shot.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
that's not how the advanced stats works
spend the cash on more players, coaching is less valued. Now if you reached a hard cap then you start looking at the peripheral things like coaching, travel arrangements etc.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I bet they could pay a statistician $50-75K a year.
Honestly, for the difference between a “top tier” coach and a regular one, they could hire a fleet of statisticians. Still have a decent enough coach, maybe send out some scouts to look at the guys the stats point them to.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
That would be a pretty cool experiment.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
again something the Clips should have tried
they obviously aren’t going with the spend spend spend model. Might as well try to pioneer a new method of running a club.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't realize that the Rockets won the championship using that approach
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Oh I'm not sure how far back Houston's stats-keeping-ways go
I was just watching that Championship game on ESPNC ;)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I loved the Rockets those two years
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
They won a lot more games than the Clippers
and they’ve had way more injuries than the Clips.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
They spend more money than the Clips
And have had a far better coach than MDSr
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not always
and they had less salary on the court many times than the Clips when Tmac and Yao were out for the entire season.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
couldn't agree more with john r on this one
Personally, I though olshey calling this a weak draft, thereby justifying trading this year’s pick, to be somewhat annoying. He may end up being right, but any one of us could find the same assessment by spending one minute on the internet. I much rather prefer’s Morey’s analysis- basically he said that on initial impression, the draft is weak; however, after he actually looked at the players, he found some good value. Basically I prefer a GM who has some nuance to his analysis; not just painting the picture as black and white. There always can be value found.
by KeithClossrules on Jun 24, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't look at your name without thinking of his face.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Trading away George Hill for a rookie is ball-sey
and the Spurs have a great track record of finding the gems. Just remember, historical performance doesn’t guarantee future returns…
Regardless, I can’t imagine you or anyone else here would have been able to use advanced stats (or any other method) to honestly say that they would have pulled the triggered on that deal yesterday. That’s my issue.
"Just remember, historical performance doesn’t guarantee future returns"
Excellent point, I have been waiting for someone to say this. The Spurs may draft gold, this means absolutely nothing in terms of Kawhi Leonard being the must-see of the draft. I bet if WE had traded for him, John R would tear the move apart for being such a risky gamble.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly - of course he would
With Chuckles right there on his coattails as always.
Excellent point. That’s what’s so frustrating dealing with these guys.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm sure its frustrating
when you are always wrong and can’t support any of your arguments with reason.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
You would know, my man, you would know
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You are right for once
I do get tired correcting you all the time. Just don’t drag down the impressionable youths of the world into this path of flawed reasoning with you.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
No idea what you're talking about
Just because you repeatedly tell us all you’re smarter then everyone else here doesn’t mean that is so.
Have a great weekend!
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well
When he says things that are factually accurate and you say things that are inaccurate, it doesn’t necessarily mean he is smarter than you (though it might), but it does mean he is more interested in the truth.
Thanks for playing, but
that’s not what I was referring to. And I think based on your recent performances (today and earlier this week), we all can see that you either don’t understand what you’re talking about or have no interest in anything except argument.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You got it wrong
John R’s position really isn’t hard to find beforehand, he already lets you know how he evaluates players. If the Clips acquire players that suck according to WPed he derides it. If the Clippers acquired sneaky good players like Childress, Iggy, Nene etc. then John R would be quite happy.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's make him even happier and trade Gordon for Keith Bogans.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Mo Williams was pretty equal to BD as I recall
And much cheaper. John R didn’t like that one.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I remember him
wondering why the pick was included. He thought the Clippers at best moved laterally on the trade. And WPed is actually much better for Baron than Mo.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Because Mo is so much cheaper than BD, who the Cavs did not want
I’d have to see the stats – I thought he said they were basically a wash.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Not close
Baron had a WP/48 rate of just under 1 (with the Clippers)
Mo was a WP/48 rate of under .5
Nerdnumbers is 503’ed right now.
And the Cavs didn’t want Mo Williams either, they would have traded him to anyone for a 2nd round pick if it let them salary dump.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel like the majority of clips ation would agree that baron is the better pg...
…if he plays.
Part of the appeal with mo is that there is a much smaller if
by indy818 on Jun 24, 2011 4:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I feel like the majority of clips ation would agree that baron is the better pg...
…if he plays.
Part of the appeal with mo is that there is a much smaller if
by indy818 on Jun 24, 2011 4:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
but is there?
Baron’s actually missed fewer games the last 4 seasons.
Baron’s played 280 games out of 328 (85.3% of games)
Mo’s played 274 games out of 328 (83.5 of games)
Neither guy is particular durable but one can’t objectively reason that Mo is anymore durable than Baron.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm..I interpreted that differently
Just because Baron was on the court doesn’t mean he always played. I was so excited when they signed BD. When the trade was made, I absolutely hated him…and it had nothing to do with his injuries. It was an effort thing. I don’t want to get into the trade but I am so glad he is gone!!!
The answer to why they trade George Hill isn't that tough to understand
George Hill is a restricted free agent after 2012. They could lose him for nothing, match any offer sheet for him or work out an extension. If they didn’t want to commit 18million+ on their PGs then this trade makes sense, they trade a player while they still have him and he has value for a relatively polished rookie on a rookie scale contract.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I would've mid-seasoned him
But this year is gonna be so weird. This was probably the smart bet.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
The draft pick was the cost of dumping Baron.
The FO felt getting rid of Baron helped the team more than drafting another project at the 3 (which we already have in Aminu).
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 1:08 PM PDT reply actions
we know what the FO was thinking
that’s not what many people are pointing out.
A few of us called this decision bad right off the bat.
Now a few others are starting to agree with this notion.
I do not believe that Olshey is purposely trying to make the team worse. BUT, I do believe his decisions have made the team worse.
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
There was no need to dump Baron/
And drafting another project at the 3 isn’t the only option. If they don’t do the trade, they have nothing but options. These options include still trading Baron, but with greatly increased knowledge about their draft position.
The trade wasn’t necessary for any reason.
I think if they hadn't traded Baron
Right now, they could have pulled off the same trade with Baron + #8 pick for Mo, based on the value of lottery picks this year. I agree that they would have had way more options if they waited, including the one they thought they HAD to get done in February. It was soooo not “now or never” back then.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Bingo
You are growing wiser each passing day.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You're not wiser just because you agree with statements made by someone
as biased as Chuckles.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm just following logic, not someone else's agenda.
And this is what logic tells me.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
the three of us "bullies" he always likes to point out
are the ones who are always trying to argue logic with him.
posts like these, and the whole hindsight thing, will put you onhis short list of people to follow and attack after every post
Blake Griffin is coming, hide your MBengas
If you read through this thread
And the thread on the main board, hopefully you will eventually understand why you are so wrong. This really isn’t a debatable issue.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
You have no evidence what so ever on your side
Less evidence than the evidence you used to prove Dunleavy would lose his case or Maggette didn’t scuttle the Artest trade.
You would be right if you disregard the facts
And the maggette issue was a complete embarrassment to you. I’d thought you would have stayed away longer than just a few days after that one. Don’t worry, we won’t forget.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Jax and I have never butted heads
I don’t see why we would now just because we disagree about an issue. It’s totally fine to disagree. My logic is sometimes only logical to me, and I’m cool with that. ;)
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Honestly
Back then, I was in agreement that a lottery pick wouldn’t be worth a ton. I was so sold on this being a weak draft, I never even considered that teams would be offering effing Tony Parker-level talent for a lottery. Hell, George Hill would have been fan-freakin-tastic. We could’ve gotten George Hill and a future pick or something for the #10.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Um, it is Parker and Jefferson just so the Jefferson albatross contract can be absorbed
Do you reall,y want that?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Then we could have had Hill + something.
And besides, I think I’d be down with having a PG rotation of Baron and Parker, with Jefferson being a huge upgrade over Gomes. That doesn’t win us a championship, but I bet it takes us to the playoffs, and we don’t have to lose Kaman.
Parker/Baron/Bledsoe
Gordon/Foye
Jefferson/Gomes/Aminu
Griffin/Cook
DJ/Kaman
That’s a deep ass team.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Just realized that's way over cap for both of those guys, so we'd have to dump something
Hmmmmmm… yeah.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Exactly
Also, Jefferson isn’t the guy we want. Again, BD is not someone that is long for any good team.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Hmmm, so maybe going for Hill would be better. But let's unravel further with Hill instead of Parker.
So if we don’t trade Baron, use the pick to get Hill, that’s all fine and good… but now we have the same team as above, but with Baron/Hill/Bledsoe at point. Only now, Hill takes up most if not all of the cap space we had before (slightly under MLE) and we still have no SF. We’d have to trade Kaman for an SF to have any hope, but we can’t sign a FA one. I think we might be a little more cornered that way. Of course we could package Hill with Kaman to get Iggy or something. That could have worked?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Yes, but BD is still on the team which they did not want
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
There is no doubt that the Clippers didn't want Baron Davis on the team
And that they would pay any cost to get rid of him. We can see that by the extremely dumb cost the paid.
How did Hill take up all the cap space?
dude makes just 2 million. Clips would have lots 1.5 million tops of cap space.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
That's enough that $1.5M isn't getting us any good FA's, right?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
If the cap space is 4 million
they could get Reggie Williams. All did this was bump them up to enough cap space to overpay for an aging SF. The free agency SFs expected to command the MLE or more are crap after AK and JR Smith. The best way for the Clips to address the SF hole is still through trading Kaman with a sweetener or two.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
And Mo is?
When are you going to start looking at what the Clippers actually got back.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry, I'm not sure if I agree that we could have pulled Baron + #8 pick for Mo
Perceived value vs “real” value are not necessarily the same thing.
I could be wrong, of course
But it just seemed to me that last night, picks were worth a heck of a lot more than we all thought they’d be. They were surely not worthless, especially within the top 10. But yeah, you’re free to disagree with me on that one.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Ah, didn't see this when I posted the same thing above.
This is the key point that is being ignored by the anti-FO mob (gang of 3)
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Hardly ignored
we’ve all been saying it was unnecessary to use a 1st round pick to dump Baron. Pointless to talk to you about this, you can’t even tell us who the Clips should sign with this coveted SF money.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Just stop responding to my posts and you'll be fine
“we’ve all” meaning you three. Yah ok
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Stop bringing me into your crap arguments then
Name a effing SF already you idiot. Unused cap space is the biggest waste of all.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
You just live to argue - get lost
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
" I never even considered that teams would be offering effing Tony Parker-level talent for a lottery"
If this was really set in stone, Tony Parker would actually be gone.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 1:59 PM PDT reply actions
Parker wouldn't be going anywhere without Richard Jefferson.
And no way the Spurs dump an All-Star to get out of RJ’s contract merely to take on Baron for a late pick.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I forgot about RJeff
Kinda makes that hypothetical go out the window—-we wouldn’t ever have room for both, unless we gave them Baron, and they don’t want Baron. I retract that part, but I made a hypothetical about Hill instead above.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Exactly.
But even if we got Hill, we’re three deep at the 1, and stuck with the same problem: trying to trade Kaman for a SF. Which is where we are now anyway.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Hill is better sweetener than Aminu/Bledsoe
That’s the only thing we get.
But really, it’s 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. Hell, right now, we could sign a FA that’s the same skill level as Hill (they are out there) and use them as sweetener with Philly for Iggy. I suppose it doesn’t change too much. My anger is subsiding slightly.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Hill or #8 pick
would be a very nice sweetener indeed. Is this really even worth debating?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jun 24, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
it was a great move by olshey
if nothing happens during freeagency, it could really save tokowitz a lot of money. Bravo! :]
"I'm an All-Star in my mind. You don't have to have somebody tell you that, to be an All-Star. It doesn't work that way." -Sam Cassell
by cliptakular on Jun 24, 2011 2:28 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
If nothing happens during free agency, we can all choose another team
But even if nothing happens, for me at least I don’t have to wonder whether BD is going to show up fat and out of shape and tank our team.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Precisely.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jun 24, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Some people around here would rather we pay $17 M for that privilege
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Well when you set the bar as low as more than "nothing happens"
Sure something will happen. Will it be Gomes 2.0?
Maybe they can start someone like Q Ross
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yay...Kawhi Leonard is going to be a beast!
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
lol
I have a feeling that’s the wallpaper on your phone right now.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
can you fault me for liking the guy?
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I had no idea this post was about Leonard...
I seriously just scanned the PAWS40, found Leonard and decided to post. Then I read the comments.
Mannn…if we would have drafted Leonard I would have been on cloud 9.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
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