Sheridan Hoops - Amnesty Irrational

Here is the Sheridan Hoops take on the proposed Amnesty clause. I agree with the take. As I previously mentioned, Amnesty basically allows a do over for the wealthier teams, making it more difficult for the smaller markets to compete. Now maybe I would like it more if our large market team acted like a large market team. However, it doesn't and there's no way they ever will so long as DTS is there.

They also mention that this is a bad proposal for lesser players.

8 months ago Jax 22 comments 0 recs |

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He also wonders if the Clippers might let go of Chris Kaman...

At first I dismissed it because the team isn’t really in any danger of going over the cap but the rule would certainly devalue one of the Clippers most valuable trading assets (while Rick Adelman’s working on devaluing the other). But it also might allow the Clips to scoop up a nice overpaid small forward (Richard Jefferson? Luol Deng? Steve mentioned Brandon Roy as well). Unfortunately, I don’t think it will be Andre Iguodala with Brand due around $35M the next couple of years.

by John Raffo on Sep 29, 2011 2:19 PM PDT reply actions

I keep hearing on Hoopsworld that Marc Gasol wants out of MEM for whatever reason and that HOU is hard after him.

HOU might intend to ink Gasol only to trade him for Dwight. Anyway, how about this if that were the case?

Kaman to MEM for Rudy Gay. MEM gets Kaman on an expiring, they let Gasol walk to HOU and we get Rudy. I don’t see MEM letting BOTH Gasol and Gay leave, but who the hell knows.

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Sep 29, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I've seen a lot of amnesty trades

involving Rudy Gay. MEM probably doesn’t amnesty him, since they’ll still have to pay out his remaining like 70 mil, but lets say they trade him for Kaman and Aminu, then can either keep Kaman, or amnesty Kaman and only pay out his contact, and opens up cap space to pay Gasol. There are so many possibilities with trades which amnesty opens up since some teams don’t have an amnesty candidate, and other have too many, not to mention just it opens up a lot more possibilities for matching salaries, since the throw in can just be waived without the cap hit.

by osamu on Sep 29, 2011 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions

why amnesty an expiring player?

the writer also notes other players like Rashard who are on their last year…

as Steve noted…why amnesty them when they will be off the books and a are a valuable trade chip?

I Am Witness to the 1st BLAKE GRIFFIN Triple-Double! And the 2nd Triple-Double!

by KidJustin on Sep 29, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Again.

Shard is on the hook for 2 years. The last year is partial, but still over 10m. I tweeted a HW sportswriter, they mention guys like Kaman come into play if there’s a hardcap brought in and teams are forced to cut. But then you’d be seeing guys like Bosh and maybe even KG getting the ax. Safe to say, that will never happen though so Kaman remains great trade bait.

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Sep 29, 2011 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Kaman, not Rashard

I think citizen KJ was referring to Kaman, not Rashard, in this case.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions

"the writer also notes other players like Rashard who are on their last year…"

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Sep 30, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Are you saying this rule devalues Kaman?

I’m not entirely sure how you mean that.. I think Kaman was already a little devalued by his injury history, but what does an amnesty clause do? Are you saying that a glut of players in free agency / some cap space for teams to spend on 2011 FAs dries up any market for him?

As I’ve said before, I think it would be plain dumb to amnesty Kaman – he’s in the last year of his deal, and some huge names (Paul, Williams, Howard) are coming up on free agency AND are not happy in their current situations. If NOH/NJN/ORL decide they want to get something in return before they lose a player for nothing, you have to have enough salary to send BACK for those players – Kaman’s $12M isn’t a burden – it’s an incredibly valuable trade asset.

In fact, the combination of Kaman’s expiring and the Minny pick is easily the most enticing 1-2 trade punch of the upcoming season – another reason that the Clippers should REALLY want this season to happen.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Upgrading Kaman

I think most of the analysts who are suggesting the Clippers drop Kaman (Jonathan Abrams and Bill Simmons suggested it here also) are looking at ways the Clippers can get a better center. And with players like Nene, M. Gasol, and Chandler available there are possibilties. I think most people outside of Clips Nation are pretty down on Kaman, mostly based on the injury history.
The Clippers, in theory, could drop Kaman and use the cap space to sign one of those centers, get a SF, and re-sign DJ with whatever Bird Rights there are. Of course this will never happen because Sterling won’t go over the cap and also pay Kaman 12M this year to not be on the team.

by Beasel on Sep 29, 2011 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

No, I would NOT amnesty Kaman...

Not what I meant at all. But because the market is suddenly flooded with players who can sign on the cheap because they’re still collecting large salary from their original teams, Kaman’s market value… in the near field… become lower. It also means that a player like Iguodala or… I don’t know, Jefferson, might no longer have to be moved because teams can shuck off other less tradeable assets. Elton Brand, who is not worth much on the trade market, might get “amnestied”, and suddenly dropped into the “free agent” market.
I see your point about Kaman’s high salary being valuable because trades have to be balanced and I’ll admit that’s something I hadn’t really considered. But I think, in terms of this short pre-season window (hoping, hoping) that Kaman’s value is somewhat corrupted by this amnesty business.
Frankly, I’d be surprised if this amnesty thing happened. There are so many items on the table, and it will take an economic genius to figure out the ramifications. I think the owners and players might agree on the BRI, kill one or two exceptions, and put all this amnesty or tiered-cap stuff off to some later date. It benefits too many teams far more than it benefits others.

by John Raffo on Sep 29, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions

The do over

If amnesty goes through Otis Smith gets a do over for signing Rashard Lewis to that ridiculous contract and another one for trading for Gilbert Arenas. Fairness doesn’t exist in sports but there has to be some repercussion towards the malice at which GMs and owners throw money around (see: Travis Outlaw).

I have a feeling that if the names with large deals get cut they’ll settle on “super teams” to get their chance at a title. Imagine if Kaman were to get get and then sign with the Heat, or as someone else mentioned before, Baron signing with the Lakers. I say keep the players, deal with it, and a stricter tax — it’s the best outcome for the Clippers (at present moment at least).

by yaggiefresh on Sep 29, 2011 2:37 PM PDT reply actions

That's the best outcome for all concerned, isn't it?

I could see some exceptions though like catastrophic injuries to key players. But those should be rare.

Significant revenue sharing too would help IMO. But that won’t come unless the rich owners feel threatened by a potential alternative league.

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Sep 29, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

I might consider amnesty if

the wealthy owners would also agree to some significant form of revenue sharing.

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Sep 29, 2011 4:24 PM PDT reply actions

The Clips will never amnesty Kaman

I don’t picture Sterling paying Kaman $12 million to not play for the team. I understand that people say we’d have cap space to go after Nene or Gasol, but I don’t picture either of those guys having the Clippers as their first choice. Gasol is also restricted so Memphis can match whatever we offer.

The thing that kills me with the amnesty is it rewards teams who just threw their money around with cap space. The Clips have money to spend this year, but have a ton of money to spend in 2012. Having an amnesty this year would give us a lot more competition signing players each of the next two seasons.

by Hooch20 on Sep 29, 2011 5:00 PM PDT reply actions

I don't get what a lot of these writers are saying.

There’s no way in hell guys like Gay and Iggy get Amnesty’d, or even RJ. They still have mega-deals and are of use to their teams. Maybe not RJ…

"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.

by Gordon for President on Sep 29, 2011 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions

I could see RJ getting dropped. The other 2, not so much.

The owners still have to pay their contracts, so they may as well keep them if they are good players.

Proud member of Club FTR

by Lawler 4ever on Sep 29, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed

"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

by Jax on Sep 29, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions

BTW

Sheridan goes through every team, but the last amnesty only applied to teams over the tax threshold, and I would expect that to be the case this time as well. He’s write then that this mostly helps the rich teams – especially if it’s limited to tax-payers. Still, if the cap gets harder (for instance in the form of higher tax rates) it’s not unreasonable to give teams a mechanism for adjusting to a significant change in the rules.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2011 6:33 PM PDT reply actions

Ooops

Not Sheridan. Chris Bernucca wrote this piece.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 29, 2011 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions

The new amnesty

It’s been rumored that this amnesty will be both for luxury tax and cap relief. If your allowing teams cap relief then you have to offer it to all teams, not just the big spenders. Although I don’t completely buy that it will only help the rich teams, you can’t just let those teams clear cap room.

by Beasel on Sep 29, 2011 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions

I think the amnesty talk had to deal with a hard cap

if the league gets their way and gets a hard cap then an amnesty will have to count towards cap space.

If the league stays away from a hard cap then the amnesty should only effect the luxury tax money.

by Hooch20 on Sep 29, 2011 6:46 PM PDT reply actions

I don't agree that it only helps rich teams

Remember most of the rich teams (Lakers, Mavs, Magic, Blazers, etc.) are way over the cap limit. Even if they’re allowed to use the amnesty to remove one player it more the likely won’t be enough to get them under the cap enough to get another decent player. In the article its suggested the Lakers could dump Walton and bring in Caron Butler. But it isn’t that easy. Dumping Walton’s salary doesn’t get the Lakers under the cap limit (no matter what it is in the new CBA). The only way the Lakers get Butler is if he’s signs a minimum contract or they Lakers use the mid-level exception (if it exists). And they could’ve used those with or without dumping Walton. All of the other higher salaried teams are in the same boat.
Meanwhile the lower teams could use the amnesty to clear out some actual useful space and sign a more productive player. The poorer teams have some bad contracts too. They can use a do-over just like the better-off teams. Not to mention the amnesty would create a much better Free Agent pool this year.
And I’m not buying the worse off for lesser players suggestion either. It’s not eliminating roster spots. There will still be places for those players.

by Beasel on Sep 29, 2011 8:00 PM PDT reply actions